Swinging and Poly-words

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

...It is also VERY important that should there be a topic that it is made abundantly clear what Poly is and how it differs from swinging, not doing so would just invite a lot of negativity from strict polys who find themselves on a swinger site by way of a search for a poly forum... which is another issue altogether....

In order to understand how they overlap we have to be able to separate them, which is often the hardest part for many.

This, to me, is the most important issue when considering whether to start a separate forum on the subject.

New members, and we have hundreds each week who never post, likely come here not knowing a thing about swinging or have many misconceptions, as I did when I arrived searching for information on swinging. If I had arrived and found a forum specific for polyamory I would have wondered if this is what swinging often leads to. Or at the least, if it is a 'risk' of swinging. People have always brought up their concerns of becoming too close to a swing partner, or their fear of falling in love. I wonder if the inclusion of a Poly forum would magnify those fears.

And even if a paper clip thread at the top of the poly forum explained the difference between swinging and polyamory, most people wouldn't likely read it. Threads in a poly forum may become full of posts continually reclarifing the differences/crossovers between swinging and polyamory.

Like many topics on the Board, they come in waves, right now there is more discussion on the subject. People have always had - and will continue to have - the opportunity to discuss polyamory in the other forums for the benefit of all who have an interest.

LM

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

New members, and we have hundreds each week who never post, likely come here not knowing a thing about swinging or have many misconceptions, as I did when I arrived searching for information on swinging. If I had arrived and found a forum specific for polyamory I would have wondered if this is what swinging often leads to. Or at the least, if it is a 'risk' of swinging. People have always brought up their concerns of becoming too close to a swing partner, or their fear of falling in love. I wonder if the inclusion of a Poly forum would magnify those fears.

LM, I see your point. There are some (even the two poly threads that are running right now) that the idea of a poly situation scares the shit out of. I admit that when Mrs. WS and I got into the Lifestyle that the idea of an emotional bond forming for my wife and a partner of hers forming scared me, also. How we handle the Lifestyle now has been a natural progression and path of personal growth for both of us.

Now, I am personally not a "fetish" kind of guy unless that fetish happens to be redheads , and I don't read the Fetishes forum here very often because it's not what I am into. Looking at the top 15 current threads in the Fetish forum I find threads on "bukkake parties", "slave games", "gang bangs", and "slave boy creampies". You would think this alone would be enough to scare away a newbie if they thought that swinging was all about gang bangs, orgies, and 10 guys cumming on one girl (which many non-swingers do think swinging is all about, just read the media reports of swingers and how the porn industry represents swingers parties). Also, the Fetishes forum doesn't get a whole lot of action either, like has pointed out the Poly area may not. So I fail to see the difference between this and a poly-related area on this board.

There seems to be as big a misconception about polyamory as there is swinging. Doing a Google search and reading some of the threads on poly sites I find that many of the topics from both veterans and newbies alike are closer to "swinging" as we define it. Even on those boards there seems to be a big crossover. We may even increase the number of people that visit this Board because we address the "crossover" crowd.

In regards to the poll, at what point in the number of respondants to we dub it "valid"? The number of responses since Amanda69's post has increased 28% and the ratios in the poll remain about the same. It would seem those that are not "poly-friendly" would constantly argue the poll hasn't had enough responses to make it valid.

For an introduction to the forum, I agree that a paper-clipped thread introducing the topic of the forum may not be read much. So is it possible to put it in a header at the top of the forum that is visible all the time without having to click on a specific "About the poly forum" thread? Something short that outlines why the forum is there and what the topic of discussion is.

In our situation, we don't go looking for poly-like relationships, BUT, after being in one ourselves and having many friends that label themselves as "poly", we are no longer scared of, or opposed to, the idea of one if it arose again. Maybe a forum dedicated to polyamorous situations would be a little scary for some, but also may present the topic as more positive if there are positive posts on there, putting some at ease.

Just some ramblings this morning while I suck down my coffee...

Mr. WS

[Menage_a_Trois]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Now, I am personally not a "fetish" kind of guy unless that fetish happens to be redheads ,

Mr. WS are you Mr. Menage's long lost twin? <EG> He has the same "fetish" REDHEADS........lost his virginity to one and they have been tops ever since.

Mrs. Menage

[Ssugarlips]

I have enjoyed the two threads currently talking about swinging and polyamory. My husband and I have both had emotional connections to our partners. In addition to the sex, a rare few have been integrated into our daily lives.

My husband is more willing to experience other partners based only on momentary sexual chemistry; he has my blessing to pursue that interest after I meet her. For me,
I need personality, chemistry and the possibility of a more lasting connection.

I have two lovers currently - one of 4 years, the other 1 1/2 years. The latter lover is part of our regular social life as well as his college-aged children. The sex is incredible but the close-knit friendship between him, my husband, and me is what keeps us happy. The lover of 4 years lives too far away to participate in our regular social life, but we keep in touch via email and phone about our lives outside of our sexual relationship.

My husband's current partner is a delightful woman who is single and experimenting with her new found sexual desires. She doesn't want a boyfriend; she wants sexual adventure. As a result, she's enjoyed my husband's sexual talents as well as being included in a foursome with me and one of my guys.

I've never felt completely comfortable with either label, though if pressed, I always said I leaned more to the polyamorous crowd. My husband identifies more on the swinger side. We both know that our commitment to each other as life-partners is unshakable. We've been married 30+ years.

[warkman]

I voted yes, however, we are not in a poly relationship. We aren't even swingers yet. But we're in the contemplation process. Ideas get thrown around and one of them is how much "connection" would be necessary with other playmates for this to work for us. We can't really invision (at this point anyway) playing with folks for which we have little or no feeling. On the other hand, we don't think we have the time or energy, or even desire to fuel other relationships in a way necessary for what I believe full on polymory to be. I'm not sure how we would find the right balance. It's interesting though.

[chicagocpl40]

We are all for it, We have been on both sides of the fence. It is a wonderful side of this lifestyle. Would do it again with the right women.
Ann

[Tybee Swing]

Coming up with definitions of swing/poly crossover seems like quite a challenge. I'm sure the styles vary a great deal. One feature I've noticed among crossovers seems to be that they do have their own partner as their #1 priority relationship. Poly definitions I've read seem to say that no love is over the other, they're all equals (like the way we should love all our children). I may not be interpreting this quite right, but that was my impression. A lot of the crossover folks seem to be more swinger in that they consider their primary partner and relationship as #1, while still allowing for development of feelings with others.

If this is true (swing/poly people, feel free to comment), then this could be one example of a definition of the crossover community. That's just one example.

I wonder if there are any swing/poly crossover-friendly forums anywhere else? Poly materials I've seen appear to differentiate polys from swinging pretty strongly, not wanting to be associated with swinging. If crossover-friendly forums are rare or non-existent on the 'net, it seems like a real opportunity to offer something for the many people who feel they are crossovers.

[jon0468]

I'm glad to see the poll, and to see that there are more people with the same things going on. When I joined this site, it was because we were considering swinging. My profile or intro had mentioned my wife had found a male partner. Well, as we have evolved, we have found that what my wife is, is in love with this guy, I do know him btw, and she wants us both, as partners. I'm open, I'm dealing, we are both on new and shaky ground. This is why I would like a forum, we need as much input and other peoples experiences as we can soak up. Hope to hear from people soon.


Jon

[KittKatt]

I found a few sites so far about the commonalities in the 2 lifestyles, with google search,but still looking for "our" label per'say (head is pounding) we still only see that we are all the same in the way of we are all open minded people, monogomy, swinging, poly, are all just that..."labels" to us.

here's the links
http://www.cattitude.net/swing/swing.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_marriage_styles

xoxoxo to all
C

[Ssugarlips]

An interesting combination if nothing else.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=45164

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Coming up with definitions of swing/poly crossover seems like quite a challenge. I'm sure the styles vary a great deal. One feature I've noticed among crossovers seems to be that they do have their own partner as their #1 priority relationship. Poly definitions I've read seem to say that no love is over the other, they're all equals (like the way we should love all our children). I may not be interpreting this quite right, but that was my impression. A lot of the crossover folks seem to be more swinger in that they consider their primary partner and relationship as #1, while still allowing for development of feelings with others.

If this is true (swing/poly people, feel free to comment), then this could be one example of a definition of the crossover community. That's just one example.

You are interpreting this correct, however being involved in the poly community in our area we have observed that in almost all cases there is one love over the other. Whether it is a married couple adding a third, or three or four unmarried people forming a relationship, there almost always, without exception, appears to be a primary relationship and the third that makes it "polyamorous". When there is a break-up 99% of the time the primary couple stay together and the introduced third person in the couple is the one to go. With the exception of one incidence we know of, this has always been the case. Even in that case what appeared to be the primary two were not married to begin with.

So, it would seem that no matter how much many polys would want you to believe that one love or bond isn't stronger then the other, it almost always is. No matter how much some polys for one reason or another try to seperate and differentiate themselves from swingers, there is a huge gray area they are not recognizing, either from disdain, ignorance, or fear.

It's amazing how much some that proclaim to be so open-minded and are involved in alternative lifestyles themselves can have so little tolerance for other lifestyles. We witnessed this first hand at a swingers party at an "alternative" club last month. One night a month this club hosts a swingers-only night and is closed to the public, but during the rest of month there are many other activities and bands that play there in other alternative lifestyles, like Goth and others. We were sitting out on the deck and a Goth gay employee of a local store our skater kids frequent was high-tailing it to the parking lot. Mrs. WS joking said "Hey, what are you doing here?" over the deck rail... he turned to her and indignantly responded "Running... Scared." Yeah, so the gay Goth guy is judging us... The point of the story? I think some polys do the same. Although in our experience, the majority would be considered "swinger-friendly" since many do seem to "swing" between serious relationships, whether they want to call such or not.

Mr. WS

[Tempest419]

As a "former swinger" (for 3 months) who was here last year and not greeted with much ado or information about the crossover between poly and swinging, I find this thread ironic but inevitable.

I identified very much with the idea of having more than casual sex, yet not having someone replacing me in my husband's eyes. I think there are a lot of women who feel that way. Casual sex with people I don't care much about never appealed to me and I think this poll and thread show that many others have a similar attitude... I said back then and still maintain that the best sex is always with someone with whom you are familiar and comfortable... otherwise, sex with our spouses wouldn't still be tops despite swinging, right?

Any discerning adult will be able to tell the difference and not be confused about having this as a topic here. Quite frankly I would've felt much more welcome and not so weird if this topic had at least been recognized and covered. It really felt like I was getting the shaft (no pun intended) from both sides of the fence b/c I didn't completely fit into either. It is never any fun to feel as the "odd (wo)man out"! My vote is yes, please add it somewhere to the boards. There is no such thing as too much information,

Sincerely,
Tempest

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Tempest419

My vote is yes, please add it somewhere to the boards. There is no such thing as too much information,

Sincerely,
Tempest

I've gotta Dito Tempest on this one. LM, I understand what you're saying about misconceptions, but the whole point of this board is to share information. Good, accurate, true information. It makes a LOT of sense to me to have a poly forum because this is a major fear that swingers tend to have, and it's one of the biggest hang-ups or obstacles that newbies face.

We all had to decide with our partners whether or not swinging was right for our marriage. Some of us said yes, others said no, we like things the way they are. Inevitibly, people have to deal with the growing friendships - or at least the noticeable emptiness in their sexual dealings - with other swingers. For some, that emptiness is okay, because it only emphasizes the fulness of their relationship with their spouse. This is like the "vanilla" side of swinging. Then there's the non-vanilla side which likes the idea of welcoming others, not only into their beds, but into their lives. We're not quite there yet, but Mr. intuition and I can understand how that would be a nice addition...if you find the right person/people.

We'd love to be able to find a small circle of a few close friends. The kinds of friends that you DO call up when things happen in your life. They know your last names. They care that that your mother is sick. They get a phone call when your kid takes his first step. They call you to come over for a BBQ tonight. Bring beer, eh? They call you again and ask you for that recipe for sweet & sour sauce. You hear the other person in the background hollering at the kids to stop kicking the damn soccer ball in the house!

You know? Real live people. We all know that these lives exist, because no one lives the "perfect" life that you see when you go out to a club or out on a meet-up with a new couple. This is their "date-face", and we all try to put our best foot forward. But I'm a person who does crave genuineness. I dislike the stress of having to do that "cocktail party" chit-chat. I just want real good friends who aren't afraid to let the friendship past the bedroom door.

Is this polyamory? I don't know. I don't care. As WS said, it seems to be in that overlapping area. A slim ledge of middle ground, but it sounds pretty good to me.

I think we do need to address the issue, and use the forum to explain exactly how and why it's not the same as traditional swinging. Avoiding the issue and leaving it undefined in the dark won't remove the preconceived notions people have about it. We have, it seems, quite a few boardies who are either poly or open to polyamory, and this gives them a place to explain their choices to others, to discuss, and to offer advice to those struggling with a poly problem. It could be an eye-opener to those who are NOT open to it, too.

[KittKatt]

Well, this thread has at least made "us" realize that we aren't as differant or alone as we once thought. Thank you all so much for your honesty!!

xoxoxoxo TnC

[lovedoctor]

Let's do it already!