polyamory, what are the chances?

[lawyer1]

my question goes like this , would it work (dating, playing) if a single M falls in love of a married F without even trying to do so, but you know litle by ltle starts to feel atachment

have this hapenned, what to learn from others expiriences?

i apologize again for my writing

[just1gurl]

Hi Lawyer1 (sorry mom)

I can tell ya most guys here won't like it from what they've expressed previously! But, lets see their responses. Interesting topic.

Also, we've another latin american gentleman who posts and prefers intimate attachments too. I wonder if its - what's the word I want here - cultural expectations?



belly up to the bar boys, have a say, I'll fetch you beers!
(I was a good bartender at one time)

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by lawyer1

my question goes like this , would it work (dating, playing) if a single M falls in love of a married F without even trying to do so, but you know litle by ltle starts to feel atachment

have this hapenned, what to learn from others expiriences?

i apologize again for my writing

Your English is far better than my Spanish or Portuguese would be.

In answer to your question: "It depends."

That's certainly not a desired outcome of swinging, but things do happen. Let's not forget there's a husband involved also, who is likely to have much to say about the situation. Most couples of my acquaintance would stop seeing a man who fell in love with the woman in the couple.

Most people involved in polyamory (that I've met) have become involved with it as a deliberate choice, not accidentally as an outgrowth of swinging.

[just1gurl]

Originally Posted by Paphian

Most people involved in polyamory (that I've met) have become involved with it as a deliberate choice, not accidentally as an outgrowth of swinging.

Hi Paph! Have you known many?

[BiloxiCouple]

From this boards dictionary:

POLYAMORY
A love relationship involving more than 2 people.

From dictionary.com
Main Entry: polyamory
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: participation in multiple and simultaneous loving or sexual relationships

From dictionary.com
po·lyg·a·my ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p-lg-m)
n.
The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time. Also called plural marriage.
Zoology. A mating pattern in which a single individual mates with more than one individual of the opposite sex.

I guess it can get complicated depending on how you look view it. I've known two couples who have tried it together. There were children involved.
Once they got involved they left the circle of people I know, so I can't get you much more information than that.

Elaine and I have recently talked about that type of relationship. So we still have to see where it will all go.

[TNT]

We watched a program this weekend on polygamy in Utah (Mormons)...it in all honesty, sickened me...basically for the reason that to me it was not a polyamory type of relationship (or my definition of one) but, more a subservient one for the women involved and based on a religious belief, which I have very little tolerance for in the first place.

To me the only way that a polyamory type relationship would work would be if it was a total true equal 'Love' relationship where all those involved loved everyone equally. This would be something that I think would be extremely hard to come by...not impossible, but definitely hard. It's hard enough for two people to be happy, emotionally, mentally and physically together for long periods of time that when you add in a third, fourth or fifth person into the equation, the problems just escalate.

For a single man to fall in love with the wife of a couple that he was playing with, would probably only cause problems ...this would of course depend on the couple and what kind of relationship that the men had together as well. It is something that most swinging couples try to avoid. Swinging is based around sex, not emotional attachment...although I'm sure that emotions do pop up from time to time.

We're not against a polyamory type relationship (our definition of it anyway ) but, it is also something that we are not looking for. We've talked about it, realized that it would take the "perfect" person , which probably does not exist, so not really a worry our ours...should it happen, we'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it.

Teresa

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by just1gurl

Hi Paph! Have you known many?

Hiya Just1gurl. This is California. Maybe half a dozen folks. I used to participate on a polyamory board (similar to this one) also.

[Dave_kat]

We, being the strange ones that we are, have had a few of those type relationships. Typically what has happened is that Kat will find herself a girlfriend while Dave is deployed, and he comes home to his wife with a live-in girlfriend. The usual I love you's abound.

Typically this is a full lesbian who wants nothing to do with the male in the relationship, and we've tried on several instances to make this sort of thing work.

Usually it ends when the lesbian woman finds out that Kat is not leaving Dave to become a full-time lesbian, even though she is told from the beginning that Dave is going to come home.

We would personally love to have a couple with whom we share a polyamorous type of relationship, living next door to each other, the whole 9 yards. Is it going to happen? Probably not.

We have found that in just swinging, you do over longer terms of playing with others, develop a natural attraction/affection for those with whom you play with and hang out with on multiple occasions. Would that be considered polyamory?

Oh, and TNT, Dave saw the same program you did, about the preacher who was taking on a 3rd wife at the request of his 1st one? Those women were so subserviant, we'd have kicked them out so long ago.

We have tried bringing a male into our relationship, just to play. Guy tried to get so involved in our lives and he made every attempt to ruin our marriage. Luckily after the first couple of fights we talked things out and discovered exactly what was going on. That has also happened with 2 of her lesbian lovers (just to make it fair and not appear to be biased against the single men out there).

In our opinion, for whatever it might be worth, unless everyone involved is very happy to begin with and stable in their own relationship, we would certainly not suggest any form of relationship with more than 1 other. Lord knows just 1 on 1 is tough enough sometimes.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by lawyer1

would it work (dating, playing) if a single M falls in love of a married F without even trying to do so, but you know litle by ltle starts to feel atachment

I don't know how often the male falls for the married female, but I think that routinely bringing singles into a relationship causes problems often enough to be of concern.

Some couples claim to be able to do it successfully. Perhaps that's so...I'm certainly in no position to question their veracity. But overall, I think there is a higher percentage of couples that eventually have problems with singles, than couples who have problems with other couples.

All relationships have their "up's and down's." The problem is that when a couple isn't getting along for some reason, they each tend to seek comfort and support elsewhere. That can be very innoccuous...a lunchtime chat with a friend or co-worker, for example. But sometimes (and this seems especially true for women), it takes on the form of calling upon past or present lovers.

(I'm NOT saying that's how it should be...I'm saying that in real-life, that's what often happens)

If you happen to be the occasional "extra" guy who's involved with a couple who's fussin', you really don't have an easy way out. If you don't sympathize with her in her "hour of need," she'll think you're a schmuck, and you'll never be invited back into their bed. If you do offer her your sympathy and the husband finds out (and 9 times out of 10, they DO find out...because before the matter is settled, she'll find an excuse to fuckin' TELL him), he'll perceive it as an attempt to hijack his marriage and he'll make sure you're never invited back. Either way, you lose.

When it comes to threesomes, sex is the easy part. It's negotiating the drama that often comes with the couple that requires a great deal of finesse...

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by JnCC

But overall, I think there is a higher percentage of couples that eventually have problems with singles, than couples who have problems with other couples.

I would be interested in how you determin this?

After being around/in the lifestyle for 30 years or so and being/working at a club that see's 800 to 1000 people per week. (couples and singles) I have seen just the opposite of what you state here. Often I have couples come to me stating they are having a problem where another "husband" is getting to personal with someones wife. (falling in love, wanting time away with the wife, being there for things other then sex, Interfering in personal matters) I can only remember a couple of times in all those years of couples saying they are having a problem with a single in the same manner. We just had a great couple stop coming to the club because a "husband" was falling for the wife.

I tend to believe this is happening because of the changes in the Lifestyle. Most singles tend to treat the lifestyle as it was, about recreational sex between consenting adults. Now many of the couples are more into the "new" lifestyle of wanting to make social friends with benefits. When you include your personal life and problems in a relationship outside of your own then you are opening yourself up to involvment other then just sex. They create emotional ties that become very mixed. I also believe that is why we are seeing the divorce rate increase in the lifestyle more then it used to be. There us much more drama these days in swinging then in the past, Mostly between couples. I see it all the time these days.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

I would be interested in how you determin this?

No scientific basis whatsoever...that's why I stated that I was "certainly in no position to question the veracity" of others, whose experience might be completely different from mine. I don't have your 30 years of experience at this...only about 7 years active followed by the last 3, during which I've been an occasional participant, but mostly an interested observer.

As I've said here before, the only "real" problem we ever had was with the husband of another couple, and that never amounted to much more than a nuisance. However...I suspect that had he not been trying to do this behind his wife's back as well, he would have been far more persistent. As it was, my wife was forwarding me his e-mails, which I then allowed to be discretely "leaked" to several of our mutual friends in the lifestyle. Ultimately, his wife dealt with the problem far more effectively than I ever could have.

Which raises another point...that the normal "checks and balances" that exist in a couple/couple relationship aren't present when a single is involved. The extra guy can afford to be a real "Prince" where the wife is concerned...he's not making 4 a.m. Tampon runs to the local convenience store, and she's not following "him" into the bathroom in the morning. That's not fair to the husband, especially when he's trying to get their marriage back on track.

In terms of raw numbers, I agree with you...errant husbands and wives represent a far greater number of "problems" than singles. But taken as a percentage over a period of time, "couples+couples" seem to suffer less drama overall than "couples+1" do.

[lawyer1]

thanks for the feedback
after reading the posts the first conclution i can take is this
¨it (the retionship )will go as far as the involved ones let it go, am i right, i guess it`s not that simple but it`s kind that way
i mean there are no especific rules about it. will always depend on many factors

[WesternSwing]

Yes it happens. A single guy friend of ours has fallen in love with the wife of another couple in our "tribe" and it seems to be tearing him up. They have dealt with it all together in a poly kind of way for awhile but I'd bet that is going to end sometime. We as well as the couple have been counseling him to find someone that is single. It's going to be a rough one for him when it ends.

So yes, it can happen. It think it is probably happens easier for a single then it does for a committed couple, however.

Mr. WS

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

I tend to believe this is happening because of the changes in the Lifestyle. Most singles tend to treat the lifestyle as it was, about recreational sex between consenting adults. Now many of the couples are more into the "new" lifestyle of wanting to make social friends with benefits. When you include your personal life and problems in a relationship outside of your own then you are opening yourself up to involvment other then just sex. They create emotional ties that become very mixed. I also believe that is why we are seeing the divorce rate increase in the lifestyle more then it used to be. There us much more drama these days in swinging then in the past, Mostly between couples. I see it all the time these days.

I agree. I don't have your experience, altought I think this makes a lot of sense. And this have to do with our feelings towards the "no feelings allowed" rule most swingers stick to. We believe this is much of a wishfull thinking, something like trowing the dust under the carpet to clean the room, as if by denying the feelings that eventually may arouse while swinging were enough to take control of the whole situation.

IMO, this doesn't differ too much from a couple with bed issues, that avoids talking about the sex, as if by means of this they were in a better place regarding those issues.

I believe that even for non-poly friendly swingers, accepting the fact that some feelings may arouse and be up to talk about them and deal with them openly, seems to make more sense than avoiding the whole subject and shut the doors behind their back when some of those feelings threatens to bring up.

As usual, the problems comes from the lack of communication, as happens when someone systematically avoids some subject.

[sereneiders]

To the OP.

It isn't clear to me if you're talking of a relationship evolving from swinging, or if you're talking about a wife cheating on her husband, because these would be two really different scenario.

Assuming you talk about swinging, I'd say it wouldn't work or that you have little chances for this to work. Moreover, I'd ask how do you feel about the husband, if you're interested in developing a close (no necesarily sexual) relationship with him as well, or if you'd be just "accepting" him because he "comes with the package".

In any case, sooner or later you'd have to talk about this... with BOTH of them, accepting the risk that they could not want to see you anymore.

Originally Posted by just1gurl

Also, we've another latin american gentleman who posts and prefers intimate attachments too. I wonder if its - what's the word I want here - cultural expectations?

I guess you meant ME!

I don't see where how you correlate this with cultural "expectations", nor who's the one who would be expecting what, in this phrase.

However, I already pointed out something that, indeed, I correlate with culture (but I wouldn't dare to generalize this to the entire Southamerica, because I mean't my own country wich, to some extent, became a cultural island because of the inmigration mixture), and this have to do with the "drama" thing. What I said is, it seems to me that in the US people trend to isolate themselves due to the fact that people use to move from city to city several times during their life. As I see this, the effect would be, they "accept" friends by need (to avoid being alone) instead of having the chance to "pick" their friends at their own peace, and since those friendships may not last long enoug, there's a mild attachment that prevents them from being hurt by the distance if some of them move away. You have a lot of sitcoms on TV showing this, and we have the chance to compare some situations that seems to be "natural" in the US, that are completelly foreign to us. Among these, the way people deal with the "drama", what deserve to be exposed in public (to those friends) and what to remain private, and why.

In this comparison, I feel Latin people use to settle more in one, perhaps two places, along their life, having the chance to "pick" friends (not needing to accept your neighbohr as your friend, for example), allowing themselves to develop tighter attachments, and having more "picked" friends at hand, wich makes a "social network" more fit to deal with everyone's personal drama, to the point that most of what seems to remain private in the US is expected to be exposed in public, in some cases even to people who isn't your friend, and it is expected people to be able to decline to take the load of your personal drama without... drama, because the "drama load" is being distributed around the "social network". For example, your best friend have a problem but you're not in the mood to provide help, it's ok to say "sorry, not now" because everyone knows there is someone else who will, and in the other hand, as you can vent off and get help for your problems from this network, it is easiest for you to provide this help when asked to, and you also know you have to pick when to do so and do it as to fit in the network.

So, when I read in the forum people talk about "drama", the whole thing seems somehow alien to me, and this has to do with the objection against poly relationship because they're "drama prone". Even when I agree, I think "yep, it's true but... what's the big deal?".

I don't know if this is what you meant with "cultural expectations" or what.