Threesome Troubles

[chastityrings]

You hit the nail on the head when you said you are not emotionaly ready for swinging, or a serious relationship, not a bad thing,... you are YOUNG, enjoy your youth wherever it takes you and don't feel bad about the things you have done, you are NOT married, look at them as learning expierences and see the good in them, someday you will look back and remember those times with a smile on your face. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're still a kid, ENJOY!!!!!!{{{HUGS}}}
chastityr

[robel12550]

Dear SableOnBlond,

(Let me stipulate that I failed to read fully every posting on this subject and am only replying quickly on my impressions.)

For starters, 22 isn't that "young", but it is. Your chronological age shouldn't be a consideration. What should be is how you "feel" about everything you've experienced.

You mentioned that you might not be a "swinger", but from one of your statements, it seems that you have wanted to be all along. You stated that you've cheated on every boyfriend you've had (which isn't "swinging", by the way)! The only one you haven't cheated on is your current one, but you feel you "cheated" on him because you didn't do the act in front of him or with his prior permission (though he basically gave you carte blanche on that). Don't get hung up on labels. They'll be your downfall.

If you'd like a little advice from someone quite older, you're working too hard.

Basically, you sound like a woman who enjoys sex and sexual variety. You enjoy the freedom of being able to choose sex partners separate from people you have an emotional attachment to. But you also sound like you feel you should have some guilt because you feel that way.

Though no one on this board can truly give you advice since they don't have a first person knowledge of what is going on, in my humble opinion it seems you have actually a good relationship right now. Your boyfriend is someone you have emotional and sexual interest in. Your boyfriend's friend is only a sex partner to you since you can't imagine even "dating" someone like him, but he must have a great body or really know how to use it. It seems that you want to please yourself and are willing to please your boyfriend, to a degree. Him might wanting to "try" a bisexual situation might only be that. (Was it Freud who said something similar to "Sometimes a banana is only a banana" or whatever?) He might want to try it and determine that it isn't really for him. Or he might only want to "try" it in his mental fantasies without really putting it to a reality test. Whatever.

A big question I'd have for you is why do you think you should deny yourself what you enjoy (your boyfriend's friend or the other men you've had sex with when you were "cheating" on your other boyfriends)? As long as everyone understand who you go home to at the end of the day and you don't end up being Typhoid Mary, why can't you keep enjoying various sexual partners? You seem to be on the brink of making a major change to your basic philosophy on the subject which you might not be able to maintain long term, based on your previous track record. Wouldn't it be better to just have a very deep conversation with your boyfriend (and maybe his friend) laying everything on the table so you all can work on how to deal with this? It seems both you and he need to be more frank about where you feel this is going.

Your statement:
"Last night, at my urging, we had another threesome. And this time I felt everything I know I should have felt all along - the disgust, the horror, the sadness of it all. I know it will be the last time. And my relationship with my boyfriend may not last either, as our values truly are so different."

"Should have felt"??? Why do you feel that?

This is in direct conflict with what you originally stated:
"Months passed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. My attraction to his friend only grew. Then last January, while the three of us were hanging out and partying, my boyfriend brought the idea up to me again, and at that point I was definetly ready. So I initiated it, and his friend was only too happy to go along. We had 3 threesomes in total. The sex really was as great as I thought it would be."

"The sex really was as great as I thought it would be." Unless your emotional feels toward your boyfriend's friend has changed to taint your appreciation of the physical aspects of the sex act, the sex should be fairly the same unless someone's "performance" was off that day.

It sounds very much like you initiated the threesome the last time to prove some "self fullfilling prophesy" that "I shouldn't be enjoying this". Was it that this time, unlike the first time which might have been before you heard your boyfriend might be interested in having same sex with his friend, you started envisioning the two men engaged with each other? Why was this time "disgusting" and the first time "great"?

Your statement:
"The thing is that even though I make loose promises, I would never in a million years have a MFF threesome. I know it is a HUGE double standard on my part, but I would be way too jealous. So I try to make it up to my boyfriend by watching porn with him. Usually it would bother me knowing a boyfriend of mine was looking at other naked women...but then I know I'm not exactly in a position to be so judgemental!"

This brings up another point. One thing you definitely SHOULD do is stop making "loose promises" or, as the song says, "Don't make promises you can't keep." That goes for so many things. Talk frankly about your feelings rather than leading anyone on. In your whole postings, that probably is the biggest problem in this whole "mess". (That's not in any way to say that you're doing anything "wrong", by the way.)

Another concern I feel when reading your messages is that you might be heading on a reoccurring situation of leaving probably very viable relationships (like your current boyfriend) because you feel someway that "you" might not be "good enough" or "not good enough" for them. (Again, I can't really say because everything here has been presented very one sided and we don't hear anything about what your boyfriend has to say.) There are relationships that shouldn't have happened in the first place and then there are many which should have taken a step back and worked on their problems rather than throwing their hands up and splitting. I'm not so sure as to which you're in right now.

My $0.002 is to have a very long talk with your boyfriend about all your feelings. You might find him very receptive to go over them. You also seem to need to do some self analysis to determine whether you really want to leave that "free spirited" woman behind and become something else. Personally, I wish there were many more free spirited women in the world so I wouldn't talk you out of being one. You might also want think about where "sex" really fits in your life. Do you enjoy it as a recreational event like watching a tennis match or do you wish to only enjoy it with someone you have an emotional tie to? There is a subculture known as "polyamory" where you can be accepted for having multiple emotional/sexual partners. You might want to consider that philosophy.

Finally, relationships shouldn't be "built" upon "sex". If you're thinking of splitting with your current boyfriend because of many other differences of "values", than it might indeed be a wise choice, but think very carefully about whether you really want to leave that "amazing man" over differences in "sex".

Best of luck to you. It looks like you have quite a bit of work ahead of you.

[SableOnBlond]

Wow...you guys are really helping me out here.


<<You mentioned that you might not be a "swinger", but from one of your statements, it seems that you have wanted to be all along. You stated that you've cheated on every boyfriend you've had (which isn't "swinging", by the way)! >>

Oh I know, I was not likening cheating to swinging. Basically what I meant was that I've always wanted to have a stable boyfriend and also have the freedom to sleep with whoever I wanted on the side. So I guess that is right, I have always wanted to be a swinger. When I was younger however, I had no idea such a thing even existed! I guess I was thinking along the lines of having an open relationship, which is what I did have with my last boyfriend, before moving on to my current one. The only thing I need to open up to is the fact that if I am going to have other partners, then I need to grant my boyfriend the same freedom.

<<"Should have felt"??? Why do you feel that?>>


I do very much fight an internal battle. While I can't help being attracted to many different guys, there is a part of me that thinks sex outside of your relationship is wrong, or unnatural. I know what is unnatural is to expect a person to be attracted to only their SO for the rest of their lives. That's unrealistic. There is a huge gap between what I think and what I feel. I *think* threesomes or swinging in general is wrong. There is a part of me that is very traditional. But at the same time I very much enjoy non-traditional sex, crave variety, and while I can see myself emotionally attached to one person for a long time, I can't see going forever with only one sexual partner. So I guess I have a lot to work out. Does it seem like it would be beneficial for me to continue to pursue a "swinging" lifestyle or not?

[BodyScape02]

Sable,

From what you wrote I would say: You are looking for love through sex... you need someone to want you or a conquest to make you feel worthy or desired or sexual.

If that is so, I would say:

“Please get your crap together and quit screwing anyone... because ultimately you are screwing yourself. Learn to love yourself first and build something of value in your life you can be proud of. Acquire some habits and actions of intrinsic value to your very self centered and very spontaneously hedonistic soul, (say like honestly, self –respect, a job you van be proud of, financial success…whatever makes you feel you have true worth…other than sex)"

Why? Because , it is impossible for me to respect you... you have no respect for yourself or anyone else. How can I value you as a person, when you put such a low value on yourself?

Or of course you can just acknowledge your shortcomings as you have been, and go on acting the same way under the excuse of “I just can't help it that is the way I am". If you are going to do that... quit whining and accept your role as a doormat.

(I am talking to you as I do and did my girlfriends who were in the same position) tough love sounds ugly...truth is often unpleasant. Change is even more painful, but so worth the time and courageous effort...to become a WOMAN who will attract good things and men, because that is what she is and it is the sexiest thing on earth. It is worth the effort.

~Cat

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

I do very much fight an internal battle. While I can't help being attracted to many different guys, there is a part of me that thinks sex outside of your relationship is wrong, or unnatural. I know what is unnatural is to expect a person to be attracted to only their SO for the rest of their lives. That's unrealistic. There is a huge gap between what I think and what I feel. I *think* threesomes or swinging in general is wrong. There is a part of me that is very traditional. But at the same time I very much enjoy non-traditional sex, crave variety, and while I can see myself emotionally attached to one person for a long time, I can't see going forever with only one sexual partner. So I guess I have a lot to work out. Does it seem like it would be beneficial for me to continue to pursue a "swinging" lifestyle or not?

Sable,

I believe the later question is irrelevant for you right now, and even more, that it is poorly grounded... thinking of swinging as a "benefit" worth to pursuit, while you didn't reached to any stable point in your "internal battle" is pointless and moreover, THIS is unrealistic and disrespectfull.

As I said before, you put too much weight on other people expectations about your life, and this doesn't mean to have witnesses sitting in a chair watching what you do to give you an approval, insthead it means the traditional part of you that you admit to have, and that has to do with the "right" behavior rules you learn so forth.

And you're still thinking of this in terms of what is right and what is wrong, what you'd supposed to do and what you wish to be able to do, and all of this has to do with expectations from people surrounding you and your own expectations for yourself. Making a gross example for the issue as you're addressing it, your question can be read as: "Should I fuck everyone around that make me wet my panties and accept that I am just a cheap whore, or should I address my wetness taking cold showers and ensure mom, dad, aunt and granma will look at me as the good girl I know am?"

The problem is that you still cannot find a place where to match the concepts of "fucking everyone around" and "being a good girl" as not being opposed to each other. All the women in this board already found such a place, and it is a place anyone of us had to find out BEFORE even thinking of swinging.

And perhaps because of this, Cat here just told you that you should start respecting yourself, and this mean to respect your wishes, your desires, your own ways to live your life, your ideas, your feelings, and so forth, since it seems that you give way more credit to what I call "third ones expectations" than your own feelings, toughts and beliefs. And even more, when the questions you ask about "how things should be" for yourself could lead you to the "take a cold shower and be a good girl" answer that for sure won't fit with our lifestyle (if you reach this point, you'd be disrespectfull with all the women in this forum since then, necesarily, all of them would be "whores").

So, even when the question is valid for you, here you'll get answers biased toward the concepts leading to the respect we actually feel for ourselves and other swingers, something that may not help you at all. So, the question about the lifestyle in terms of benefits and on the grounds you're doing it, here, turns to be wrong.

Even so, I believe we understand your dilemma and how valid the questions you're asking to yourself are, because at some point we faced the same dilemma. As for me, I feel I cannot give you any advice about the "benefits" of being swinger because that would be being pushy with someone who didn't developed her own standards, and by doing so, I would be being disrespectfull with myself, with the orher board members, and with the lifestylers in general.

So, my advice isn't related to the "being swinger" question, but to the lack of standards you're showing and what I believe you could do to work around this issue (what I wrote in my previous post), that could help you find out if you'll feel more confortable in a bed or in a shower.

Again, you're young and you're in the middle of the proccess that will define your sexuality. Don't be so hard and enjoy the proccess itself, because no matter where it will lead you, it deserve to be enjoyed.

sereneiders

[2much]

Have you ever considered that your BF is crazy about you and this situation you are in has him blinded to the fact that you want the roomate for more than just the occassional 3-way? He might very well be really shocked to learn that you want the other guy. He could respect and love you more than you know, but this situation you are in likely has everyone confused.
A few comments - I have done things like you mentioned your BF does (asking you to flash or showing off your panties to the r/m), once while we were partying and watching a porn movei with my M friend, I asked my gf to show him her tits, then suggested he stroke his cock for her after he mentioned he was getting a "raging hard-on." She was embarrassed when I said it, naturally, but within about an hour the three of us were going at it. So, I don't blame him for pushing you towards sexual encounters with the r/m, unless you have openly objected to them. He probably thinks you are as into it as he is.
Good luck with your situaiton - it sounds very emotional, but also very wild.

[SableOnBlond]

Have you ever considered that your BF is crazy about you and this situation you are in has him blinded to the fact that you want the roomate for more than just the occassional 3-way? He might very well be really shocked to learn that you want the other guy.

That sounds about right to me, actually.

I've been trying to get my head screwed on tighter about the whole situation. I've stopped obsessing over it so much. We have not had a threesome in a long time, but it seems like my boyfriend is playing with me. It seems rather unfair.

Here is the thing, often times when we are having sex he will talk about having a threesome. Primarily what he talks about is HE and his friend having sex, and he seems to get so turned on by it. Practically the WHOLE time we are having sex he will talk about it, describe exactly what he wants to do with his friend, and say we will have the threesome the next night. So in turn *I* get all worked up about the idea, and the next night comes and I am all excited and ready but my boyfriend says nothing about it. So, somewhat hesitantly I bring it up...and my boyfriend gets mad at me! He says we're having fun just the two of us, why do I have to ruin it? Then he turns on me and asks why I keep expecting a MFM when I won't bring any girls to bed with us. Well maybe because HE keeps talking about it!

So it is obvious that he wants to have a one-on-one encounter with his friend. But I think when it comes to the reality of it he is likely too afraid to attempt it because he does not know how his friend will react. While I would like to have a threesome again I am at the point where I can take it or leave it. But when my boyfriend goes on about it, promises "we will have one tomorrow" and then gets mad at me the next day when I bring it up...it's getting really old.

[txduo2000]

Personally, I think you should, for now, drop the idea of a threesome, and tell your boyfriend that you don't want to verbally fantasize with him anymore about it.

It sounds to me like he is all for it, in the heat of the moment, but then when the arousal is gone in the light of day, he feels threatened by the actuality. I don't know if he is purposely toying with you, or if it is that he finds complexity in his own feelings from one time to another. Perhaps he may be also reading into you having the crush on the roommate and he feels threatened by what could happen if you continue to pursue threesomes with this guy. Guys, especially young guys, don't always know that women are inherently more apt to attach emotions to sex, but I think they sense it subconsciously. This might be happening with your guy.

For the time being, I think you two need to improve your communications and your relationship before continuing with any swing activity.

[bill&sabrina]

Bringing this back up to the top.

[Irony]

This is a great post, with many intelligent answers. It was useful to read through some posts and reflect about it for some time, at least for me. Thx a lot, everybody!

[MikeandDawn]

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

Hey everyone, I'm new and glad I was able to find a board like this.

I don't know if I would necessarily call myself a Swinger, but that seems to be the most appropriate term. Anyway, I guess I am interested in feedback from those who are familliar with this lifestyle, any thoughts on the whole matter will be greatly appreciated. My whole situation is pretty messy, and I am so lost!! I hope this is not too confusing.

I've been with my boyfriend now for almost two years. I love him, he is an amazing man. In the beginning of our relationship I felt myself kind of attracted to his best friend/roomate. Though I swore to myself nothing was going to come of it. But I would have all kinds of fantasies about threesomes with my boyfriend and his friend. When I asked people their thoughts on this "hypothetical" situation, everyone basically laughed and said there was no way something like that would ever become a reality.

Long story short, four months into our relationship my boyfriend casually questioned me as to how I felt about threesomes. I admitted a MMF threesome was a fantasy of mine. And then he actually suggested we have one with his friend! I could not believe it! At the time I was too freaked out, and so nothing actually happened.

Months passed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. My attraction to his friend only grew. Then last January, while the three of us were hanging out and partying, my boyfriend brought the idea up to me again, and at that point I was definetly ready. So I initiated it, and his friend was only too happy to go along. We had 3 threesomes in total. The sex really was as great as I thought it would be.

A lot of time has gone by since our last threesome. But I think about having another one every single day. It is tough because every night it is the three of us hanging out together. My boyfriend and I plan to someday move into our own place, but right now the three of us kind of live together.

I feel really guilty, because whereas this seems to be just mere sexual thrills for my boyfriend, for me it has to do with having feelings for his friend. I am not in love with him, and infact I could not picture myself actually dating someone like him. Yet I am saddled with this unrelenting sexual obsession. I enjoy sex with my boyfriend, but every night that passes without getting a chance with his friend feels somehow like a letdown.

I must confess that even though even though we haven't had a threesome in awhile, I still take every opprotunity to make-out with his friend. After my boyfriend and I retire to bed I'll sneak back downstairs for a few minutes to be with his friend. The thing is that I always tell my boyfriend when I do this. And he never forbids me.

So what is wrong with asking him if it's OK is it goes beyond "just making out," and it's OK if he walks in and "catches" you?

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

My boyfriend had admitted to wanting to have sex with a man...namely, his friend. When he brings up having another threesome, the main purpose this time is for he and his friend to fool around. (I think that his friend is also bi-curious...he has in the past talked about being attracted to men). So then I wonder if maybe my boyfriend is using me as a way to get closer to his friend (just like I did?)

Maybe, but you don't buy the cake just to get the icing. Something tells me if they had wanted to get together by themselves, they would have done so by now. In the framework of a threesome, I'd think of it as just a happy side benefit of the relationship.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

What would it be like if the two of them had sex?

You'll never know until it happens. Have you asked your b/f what he expects will come out of the situation?

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

Should I encourage it?

I certainly wouldn't discourage it.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

My boyfriend talks about wanting to Swing, and having a MFF threesome. I tell him that I like the idea of that too, but the truth is I don't know if I do.

Then please don't tell him you do. It just sets up false expectations. Be honest with him about your feelings.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

The only reason I agreed to a threesome was so I could have sex with his friend.

Now, was it to have sex with the friend, or your b/f and the friend?

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

Kind of cheating in plain sight, huh? Why can't my boyfriend see that? Why does he let me get away with making out with his friend every once in awhile?

You'll have to ask him. Dawn and our M play by themselves all the time. I don't need to know when it happens, as I trust both of them, especially Dawn. We've dealt with our insecurities years ago, so trust isn't an issue with us now. But your statements make me wonder what you are looking for out of the relationship. To me, it sounds like you enjoy your boyfriend for the person he is, but just love the other guy's dick. So what exactly is it you want your b/f to 'see'?

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

I feel guilty, but then I think that the idea of me being a slut turns my boyfriend on. There have been times during sex when he wanted me to describe to him things I did alone with his friend, and it turned him on. Sometimes when I go downstairs to use the bathroom and he knows his friend is down in the livingroom he'll say stuff to me like "You should flash him when you walk by" or "You should just go down naked." There have actually been times when we've been hanging out and my boyfriend pulled my skirt up to show his friend my new underwear. Like, who does that?

Me I've done stuff like that with Dawn and the other M's we've been with previously. I don't consider Dawn a "slut". She's just a very beautiful woman whom I love deeply. She just has a lot to offer a man, and I just enjoy showing her off and sharing. Our first few times with a new M are usually "getting to know her" sessions where I get to show him everything she likes and everywhere she likes it, in quite explicit detail.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

The thing is that even though I make loose promises, I would never in a million years have a MFF threesome. I know it is a HUGE double standard on my part, but I would be way too jealous. So I try to make it up to my boyfriend by watching porn with him. Usually it would bother me knowing a boyfriend of mine was looking at other naked women...but then I know I'm not exactly in a position to be so judgemental!

This is where I'll state the "be honest about your feelings with your b/f" part again.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

What I would ideally want is for us to just have an exclusive three-way relationship. But I know it is just a matter of time before his friend gets a girlfriend of his own. It's unreasonable, I know, but I feel like my boyfriend's friend is a part of our relationship. I don't want to lose him. What is all this?

Sounds like what we have, a live-in (basically) M who is our only playmate. He rents the mother-in-law apartment above our agrage and it works out great for all of us. I know previous history tells us he'll move on one day, but we'll just begin our search for a new play partner soon after.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

And then I feel guilty whenever I don't have any contact with his friend, like I'm somehow betraying his friend by not being intimate with him. I just cannot read what my boyfriend wants. His mixed messages drive me nuts. I'm afraid to initiate another threesome on my own, even thought my boyfriend tries pretty frequently. But I just don't like the way he goes about it, wanting me to just bust out and start stripping right in the livingroom.

I guess some of my questions are:

1) Is it okay or totally inexcusable for me to fool around with his friend when my boyfriend isn't around (even though I tell him every time I do it). If he never outright forbids me to do it, does that mean he doesn't mind? Sometimes when I go downstairs to get something he'll say "Hurry back" which I take to mean "No fooling around." And then there are the other times when he'll suggest I flash his friend or go down naked. What should I think?

Your relationship seems to rely too heavy on code words/phrases, which may or may not mean what you/he think they mean. You need to talk honestly with the b/f.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

2) Is it very likely that my boyfriend is bi and has wanted to be intimate with his friend for some time? What exactly does it mean that he gets turned on by me sleeping with/flashing his friend? Does it have to do more with me or his friend?

Either or both. You won't know until you ask. Hopefully he'll be honest about his feelings.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

3) Is this at all normal?

Not usual, but IMO, not abnormal. The biggest issue I see here is (drum roll please) the lack of honesty about true feelings.

Originally Posted by SableOnBlond

Okay, anyone ever been in an even remotely similiar situation? Any thoughts or advice? I'm sorry if I sound totally dumb...I never thought I'd find myself in a situation like this!

We wouldn't have our situation any other way, but we certainly can't say it's for everyone. My gut feeling on this one says be wary of the situation, because there's a huge possibility of entanglement and hurt feelings because honest feelings aren't being discussed between the parties involved.