Being honest about STDs

[Triumphs]

Ok, we've been reading these STD related discussions, and trying to decide what we should do. We know we might be HSV and HPV carriers just like 80-90% of the population. We are not symtomatic and haven't been active outside of our relationship for 10 years, but we are still going to be tested for all other possibilities before we go any further. What bothers me, is that given the number of people that visit this site, there aren't more that admit to being carriers of the more common infections. We couldn't find any couple in our area that doesn't say D/D free.

As far as we're concerned, it's the symptoms that are the real turn-off. If we found another couple that is not symptomatic, but is honest that they may have contracted something we already have, we would not have a problem swinging with them. I mean, what's the harm? Hell, we feel that our mutual honesty would help to alleviate our own misgivings, and might help everyone relax.

What we're getting at is, we realize there's a negative stygma about having an STD, but if we're all carriers and not symptomatic then why not be honest. Oh sure you can lie just so you can get that tasty virgin couple into bed, but at what cost? I thought we were all beyond the player tactics.

I would like to hear from the rest of you about this.

Do you feel that if a couple/person is non-symptomatic, but admits that they may have an STD you already have, that you would still be turned off?

How many here have been tested recently? We plan on being tested within 3 months of any sexual contact. We don't suspect we'll find anything more, but we'd rather know than spread something.

Come on people, most of us should know that the majority of the population has HPV and HSV, so why is it such a threat?. In many cases, you don't even have to be sexually active to contract either.

Thanks Julie for the site. I don't know if that's you in your avatar, but it reminds me (TriumphGuy) of an old girlfriend.

[JustAskJulie]

What makes you think you might have one of those virus's if you don't have any symptoms? And why would others typically think they did without the symptoms. The general STD tests don't even test for Herpes, and generally unless you are showing symptoms Dr's won't run the blood test. While there is a newer blood test now that can actually determine whether it is oral or genital herpes (the regular one can't tell), even then they aren't likely to run it unless the regular/cheaper one has already tested positive.


So I'd like to add a question to your question. Let's assume that most swingers do get tested regularly for STD's (personally I think that is even a big assumption), if you do get tested, what do you get tested for? Do you just have your Dr run the basic STD testing (which typically only checks for chlamidia and (I think it's) syphilus) or do you specifically ask them to test for you everything they possibly can?

[Triumphs]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
What makes you think you might have one of those virus's if you don't have any symptoms? And why would others typically think they did without the symptoms. The general STD tests don't even test for Herpes, and generally unless you are showing symptoms Dr's won't run the blood test. While there is a newer blood test now that can actually determine whether it is oral or genital herpes (the regular one can't tell), even then they aren't likely to run it unless the regular/cheaper one has already tested positive.

When we seperated in '93, TriumphGirl had a few encounters and developed what we were told was genital warts, and later had abnormal results on her PAP smear. She then had her cervix frozen, the symptoms went away, and she hasn't had any in 10 years. I never had any symptoms.

As for the the HSV (herpes), we both get cold sores every couple of years or less. This is the most common STD on the planet (>90%), so unless swingers constitute a very unique group, atleast about 45% or more should have it.

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
So I'd like to add a question to your question. Let's assume that most swingers do get tested regularly for STD's (personally I think that is even a big assumption), if you do get tested, what do you get tested for? Do you just have your Dr run the basic STD testing (which typically only checks for chlamidia and (I think it's) syphilus) or do you specifically ask them to test for you everything they possibly can?

That's a good point. There isn't any way to test for HPV and the herpes test is expensive, so we're asking for people to be honest. As someone put it in another thread, it seems to him like it's a nasty little secret in this lifestyle, which we hope others will come forward about. Neither is entirely debilitating, but we understand the obvious turn-off it can be.

I (TGuy) feel that what most people are doing, are saying they are D/D free just because 1) they don't know they have HPV or HSV or 2) they choose not to be entirely honest (because of the stygma and they can because they are not symptomatic).

I just find it hard to believe that so many people in this lifestyle claim to be D/D free. People don't even need to engage in sex to contract either, so how is it possible for so many to be D/D free.

As for the others that can be tested for, we would expect anyone to be honest there as well, and get tested regularly. We might not get intimate with them if they are positive until they are completely cured, but their honesty will go a long way with us.

Look folks, we all understand the stygma about having an STD, but you don't have to go running around wearing a shirt that says "I have an STD". What we want is, if you have something, be honest. You never know if the other couple might have the same thing (esp these) and it's not going to hurt one way or the other.

Basically what we are saying is, "we'll show you our medical history if you show us yours". Can you all live with that?

[RedRobin]

I think there is definitely some merit to your questions and comments, but I don't think people are going to be as straightforward and honest as you would wish because of that very stigma you mention.

I've read the statistics, also, and thought the same exact things, but unfortunately, the stigma is part of what has increased the statistics. In other words, because of the stigma attached to STD's, people refuse to admit it and continue to spread the infections.

It is much like mental illness and the stigma attached to that. We think nothing of telling people we have pneumonia or a bladder infection or something like that, but we hide our depressions and mental illnesses and often, don't seek treatment for something that could be easily treated. I don't remember right off hand, but the rate of depression is extremely high. With short-term counseling or medication therapy, people could live much happier and more productive lives, but most of us would not want that information in our medical records as it could be used against us at some future date. (Thinking employment)

Also, and particularly with married couples, they might be hesitant to go to their family doctors to request STD testing for fear they might have to explain why they are concerned if they are supposed to be living in a monogamous relationship. Then, too, those same medical records go to the insurance company and most of us are insured through our work. Who knows who has access to those records. When you combine that with the cost of getting tested frequently, there are many issues for people to contend with.

The other point I want to make is that testing is not proof-positive. There are too many areas for mistakes to be made in the interpretation of the results. Then, too, there is an incubation period for most viruses. I wonder what it would be for those you mentioned? In other words, what would be the time frame between contracting the virus and it showing up on a test?

I don't disagree with what you are asking or expecting, but I do think you are asking and expecting more than you will receive from most people. Unfortunately, you are presenting that *perfect world" scenario.

Be Happy!
RedRobin

[Mich149]

Our profile says D/D free. That is not because we are hiding from or disguising the truth. It is not because we haven't been tested. We aren't and we have been. It's because we, like many others, am not going to put in my profile that we are/may be carriers because we don't know that we are. Neither of us have had genital warts or oral/genital herpes symptoms, therefore we do not need to state that we are carriers.

You on the other hand have a clear delineation of where your issue arose. There is a difference. If even once either of us had had an outbreak of ANY disease, we would either leave the lifestyle or amend our profile. Even now, if you wanted to see my medical history before havign sex with me I would do that

There's a big difference between omission to conceal and omission due to lack of evidence. I'm sure you didn't mean to come off as aggressive as you did and maybe it's just me, but maybe next time you should count to ten before going off.

[RedRobin]

Isn't it interesting how we all hear and read the same things, but come to different conclusions about what we heard or read? I was discussing something similar with a dear friend not long ago as we discussed the fact that men are more often color blind than women. We then started discussing what different colors meant to us. In other words, when I say something is yellow, what does that really mean to you? Are we seeing the same shade of yellow? Or are you seeing something I might call green? Police have said that "eye witnesses" often report entirely different things, but all swear that they saw the accident, etc., perfectly. I just find that interesting.

Sorry. I said all of that just to say that I didn't find the remarks of the poster aggressive at all and thought they were interesting questions, indeed. I haven't read a huge number of adds, but I also wondered the same thing about everyone reporting themselves as D&D free based upon the statistics I have read about the prevalence of HPV and HSV. Different sources claim different statistics, but I have read anywhere from 70% to 90% of the population have HSV. In this poll, only 2 people out of 20 claim infection and I believe that correlates to about 10% (but please don't trust my math!). If the statistics are accurate, you would expect 14 to 18 of the respondents to report symptoms of infection. (Again, my math is not to be trusted!)

What accounts for the difference in the general population vs. the lifestyle population? Are the statistics over reported? Maybe in an effort to market the expensive drugs on the market? Is there an age correlation since it seems that the much, much younger generation has a more open attitude towards sex than some of us did just a few years ago? Are some of these viruses spread in ways not yet discovered? Personally, I'm a big believer in the psychogenic aspects of disease and wonder if our mental state doesn't do more to perpetuate illness than actual exposure to bacterias or viruses. Maybe that aspect alone could prevent the spread of the virus among lifestylers as they are comfortable with sharing their sexuality and don't suffer "guilt feelings" from enjoying one night stands and that sort of thing.

I don't know, but I do find the comments and questions of the original poster interesting and believe it gives everyone something to think about. Then, after thinking, and like all things, they have to decide what is best for them.

RedRobin

[billandshan]

We have Herpes-2 (Genital) and post it in our profile. We also are on the lookout for other STDs which people don't mention they have. We don't care to catch anything else. I'm here to tell you that quite a few people that claim DD free do in fact have Herpes-2 at least. We have been contacted by them. This, to us, is the utmost in deception and dishonesty. To us, HSV is nothing to be ashamed of. I understand that it is to others, but this is a person's health we are talking about, especially with HPV because it is attributed to cervical cancer. MANY are dishonest, and the ONLY way to judge honesty is by tha character of the people themselves. We GREATLY reduce the number of messages we receive, but it's better in the long run. Even of the messages we've received, we have yet to actualy meet anyone in person. Be careful out there. We would rather someone have an STD and tell us, than to lie. That is why we ae specificly looking for women or couples that already have it. It's a lot less stress. But to me, I'd rather have HSV2 than the common cold. An outbreak easier for me to get rid of (a day) and less hassle than a cold (a week). Others have it worse than me though.

[billandshan]

Originally posted by RedRobin

What accounts for the difference in the general population vs. the lifestyle population? Are the statistics over reported?

I think that the vast majority of people with STD dismiss swinging right off the bat because of it. SO they never persue it. Or they lie about not having it.

BTW. Stress is the trigger for our out breaks. No stress, no outbreaks. I have one or two per year max, she has maybe 6 per year. But she's more easily stressed out.

[Sadie6969]

I voted I have it and I'm honest. Bill and Shannon have inspired me to be completely open honest in the swinging world.
I too have to wonder about the statistics of those who voted we don't have anything and expect the same.

Two weeks ago I would have voted that way. I have been in a monogamous with my husband for 7 years. I had ONE sexual partner before him. And my regular physicals have never detected anything unusual.
Two weeks ago we went to our 1st lifestyle house party. Two days later I broke out with genital herpes. I contacted the hostess of the party immediately to inform her, and she was shocked and suprised. So either someone at the party had it and didn't know it or didn't tell. Or I already had it, and now I've exposed everyone I came in contact with.

I guess I learned the hard way, when it comes to HSV, ignorance is NOT bliss.

[tisha]

Well, Im going to be honest too, My husband has Genital Herpes, He caught it before we got married over 11 years ago... at first, I really was cautious about the risk, so I asked my GYNO to explain all the data to me, and it turns out, that as long as the male isnt blistered, he isnt contagious, but if he is exsperiencing a break out, he MUST wear a condom to protect his partner... Well I still get tested with my exams, and Im still negative...For the people who do have it, I can usually tell when my husband is about to break out, his urine will be dark and smelly, his sweat will have a unusual odor, and he is grumpy as all hell ...lol
He takes Valtrex daily to prevent any future outbreaks, and eats healthy. another thing to keep in mind, is A female can have the virus and exsperience NO symptoms... so, if you dont have anything, ask the male to wear a rubber to keep you diease free !
and if your into ff oral. Well, either try saran wrap, or use your best judgement, the only exsperience i had with another female, she gave me clymidia, just from doing oral on her, the next days following, my tounge turned light yellow, and had a funny coating on it, I had to get a shot in the butt, and refrain from sex for 2 weeks ! YUCK ! but im better now DD free... and planning to keep it that way.
Hope this helps. Mrs. K

[billandshan]

Originally posted by tisha
and it turns out, that as long as the male isnt blistered, he isnt contagious

Wishful thinking! Get a second opinion from another doctor. I'm living proof that is false. Married for 11 years, chances are you have it! Get a Western Blot Test and\or a PCR

Below applies to both sexes.

HerpesFAQ.com

Q: Can I spread genital herpes even when I'm not having an outbreak

A: The genital herpes virus can still be spread through the skin although there are no visible signs of an outbreak. This is called asymptomatic viral shedding. Up to 70% of people catch genital herpes from an infected partner who has no signs or symptoms. And since the symptoms are not always obvious, nine out of ten people who have genital herpes don't even know they're having an outbreak

[sensuality]

This is a very interesting discussion.Especially with regards to HPV.This virus stays with you your entire life...most strains don't even show any symptoms.Some cause warts,while now it has been proven that there are certain strains that are responsible for cervical cancer.Bottom line, since 80-90% of the population are carriers, and there isn't really any way to know unless you've got the strains that cause cancer or warts,there are a lot of people walking around with this virus and may never even know it.It's just like the cold virus,we carry that around in our bodies all our lives, as well.It should also be noted that there isn't any form of protection from HPV,because the virus is in,on and around the genital areas.Another thought is, that facts about STD's seems to change every so many years..also hopefully, one day...there will be vaccines for all this stuff.In the meantime,all we can do is protect ourselves as best we can....

[HornyMe]

OK, I do get cold sores on my mouth. Probably about 2 times a year. It seems it always happens when I get stressed out. Back when I was in H.S. & this happened my Dr. gave me some cream for it & nothing else was said about it. Nothing about an STD was said. So, do I have one? I have never had an abnormal pap smear & when I was tested everything was OK. Now I am real worried. Do I have an STD? If so how come hubby has never had them? Can I pass it to him? Can I give it to my kids?

[TnJ2Play]

Originally Posted by HornyMe

OK, I do get cold sores on my mouth. Probably about 2 times a year. It seems it always happens when I get stressed out. Back when I was in H.S. & this happened my Dr. gave me some cream for it & nothing else was said about it. Nothing about an STD was said. So, do I have one? I have never had an abnormal pap smear & when I was tested everything was OK. Now I am real worried. Do I have an STD? If so how come hubby has never had them? Can I pass it to him? Can I give it to my kids?

Yes, cold sores are herpes. *Usually* caused by Type 1 but sometimes by Type 2. You can give them to your kids or your spouse through kissing and to someone genitally by giving them oral sex.

BUT... having oral herpes does not equal having genital herpes. If you get cold sores you most likely won't get the same type in the genital region. But you could get Type 2 if you had sex with someone who has Type 2 genitally.

Does that help or just confuse the issue further?

J

[TnJ2Play]

Originally Posted by sensuality

Especially with regards to HPV.This virus stays with you your entire life...most strains don't even show any symptoms.

Bottom line, since 80-90% of the population are carriers, and there isn't really any way to know unless you've got the strains that cause cancer or warts,there are a lot of people walking around with this virus and may never even know it.

It's just like the cold virus,we carry that around in our bodies all our lives, as well.It should also be noted that there isn't any form of protection from HPV,because the virus is in,on and around the genital areas.

Same with HSV.

Lifelong.

Most people who have the virus do not even know that they have ever been exposed.

No surefire way to protect from passing it on because the virus can shed in the entire 'boxer shorts' region.

And it *IS* contagious even when you have no visible symptoms.


My thoughts... Unless you have had several negative blood tests for the antibodies, you can't really assume that you don't have it. Epecially if you have ever rec'd oral sex from someone who gets cold sores.

J