What is Cheating When You're a Swinger?

[incommunicado]

Just out of curiosity? As swingers, who have watched our spouses have sex with others and enjoyed it for us, as well as for them, how do we now define cheating? And, does cheating carry with it the same gut-wrenching pain stigma that it did when we were practicing traditional monogomy?

Would you be more mad/disappointed then anything else? Would you just shrug it off? Or, would it carry the same betrayel of trust that it would in a more traditional, monogomous relationship, with the same potential repercussions?

For me, even having known the pain of betrayel in my past relationships,I'd probably just shrug it off. Even though we are supposed to swing together, watching my wife have sex with another man, really changed my perspective on the weight the physical act should have on the relationship.

What's the groups take?

[ciscosv]

Here is my take on it. We have only been in the lifestyle a short time but we both feel the same. If one of us does something that the other does not know about it is cheating. A few weeks before our wedding my now husband cheated on me. I feel that I got over it more quickly then most would but that was because of the tremendous amount of trust that we have for eachother. He came clean the very next day and told me the whole truth. that made it a lot easier to work through. I was just as hurt as anyone else would be. I think it may hurt more because they know if they really want to get in bed with someone all he would have to do is ask me and invite me in. He realizes that now too and is very sorry that he almost lost us. We are doing great now but we will always be together when it comes to any sexual activities. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[frisson]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Just out of curiosity? As swingers, who have watched our spouses have sex with others and enjoyed it for us, as well as for them, how do we now define cheating? And, does cheating carry with it the same gut-wrenching pain stigma that it did when we were practicing traditional monogomy?

Would you be more mad/disappointed then anything else? Would you just shrug it off? Or, would it carry the same betrayel of trust that it would in a more traditional, monogomous relationship, with the same potential repercussions?

For me, even having known the pain of betrayel in my past relationships,I'd probably just shrug it off. Even though we are supposed to swing together, watching my wife have sex with another man, really changed my perspective on the weight the physical act should have on the relationship.

What's the groups take?

Great topic.

Going in, we should say that in our case, we both have near-complete personal freedom, yet our marriage is sacred and thriving. We wake up in each other's arms every morning, we raise our children and live our lives as a couple, and we plan a long future together. We love one another's company, and we make every effort to do as much as possible together and as a family. But we don't try to regulate what happens when we are physically separate. We both truly trust one another to keep the marriage inviolate, and as long as that's understood, then what else really matters?

So that's our perspective.

To get to your main question, it's technically cheating any time one partner breaks an agreement or promise.

That's not a good thing for a marriage, but the bigger issue is why it happened. Was it to pursue an emotional connection with somebody else? If so, that's definitely bad news, and the marriage is probably in trouble.

But if it was a primarily sexual relationship--if the straying partner was basically swinging alone without permission--the injured partner probably ought to take it for what little it's worth. After all, we as swingers ought to understand by now that sometimes sex is just sex.

Why would somebody stray this way when (in theory) swinging provides an outlet for sexual curiosity? A point comes in many relationships where one partner feels a need for freedom and latitude, while remaining committed to the marriage. Swinging provides an outlet in some respects, but if the ground rules are too restrictive, then it's really just a tease of freedom and not truly satisfying.

It gets back to limits. We all have them, but maybe we ought to periodically examine them and question why we have them. Most times, they exist because of insecurity and a need to control one another. "Okay, I will feel comfortable (i.e. not afraid) if you go here and here but not there and there and there ." From our point of view, this just sets up a minefield of "loyalty traps." That is a lousy basis for a relationship, and it's pointless anyway, because rules don't really work if the need to go there or there or there is strong enough.

When a couple becomes swingers, they begin re-writing the rules of their marriage in order to grant one another a new freedom and the opportunity to find pleasure and happiness. It doesn't happen all at once, but ideally it should continue until both partners have all the freedom they need.

Unfortunately, most people try to halt the process at some point, freezing some of the old rules in place. But the old rules don't really fit human nature (which is why we all start swinging in the first place).

Giving your partner true freedom requires a huge leap of faith in one another. But actually it's a sneaky way of hooking them forever. Freedom is addictive, and once your partner has tasted it, s/he will never stray far. After all, why would anyone give up a life of true freedom just to get stuck with somebody who is possessive and insecure?

<small>[ 06-29-2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: frisson ]</small>

[invictus]

if the ground rules are too restrictive…....….this just sets up a minefield of "loyalty traps

WOW. If I understood this post correctly, then you or I need to re-evaluate this lifestyle, or at least give prospective couples a "heads up" that there is trouble on the horizon. Maybe I am missing your point???

[md_hot_cpl]

When does swinging become cheating? When the SO does not know about it!!!!

My ex was a cheating green eyed monster. Never understood "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" meant. It was the end of the world if another male even dared look at me, but he felt he could have his flings. After forgiving him twice.... the third time he was out!!! (or I was, I left.. lol)

Mike on the other hand can go and have his flings anytime he wants because I know that I will be informed (before, during or right after). He also allows me the same. I prefer to have him with me at all times. I love the smiles and dreamy looks I get, plus the sex is great after as we relive what happened.

Sam (the happy, pleasured, trusting, trusted,Wife)

[JustAskJulie]

I have to agree that the lack of knowledge is the key to what is cheating.

My hubby and I have pretty much full freedom to do what either of us wants. The one rule is that we tell each other what happened. We don't necessarily have to call up beforehand and say "this is what I'm going to do" or even immideately after it's done. So long as when we get home we spill the details... which is usually followed by great sex.

So if one of us came up from a trip or something and had done something while away and didn't tell, then the other found out later that something had happened. That would be cheating and yes it would hurt.

[sccple29073]

To me I think cheating would be anything your partner was doing that you were not aware of.

For us cheating would almost certainly require crossing emotional boundaries rather than sexual ones. We started with some pretty stringent rules about sexual engagement but after only three encounters we have really only one rule reguarding the physical side of things remaining: Safe sex or no sex.

We have several rules concerning emotional engagement. They all are intended to prevent one of us from getting more emotionally involved with another person or couple than the other. It all really boils down to one cardinal rule:
[list]
Don't fall in love. To do so wouldn't only be cheating in our book. It would be adultery.

[incommunicado]

How bent out of shape can any of us get if our spouse cheats? They've already had sex with someone else with/without us present for the sheer pleasure of it, and so have we. It can't possibly be the same knife-in-the-heart betrayal if they stumble onto an extracurricular pleasure opportunity and get carried away. It can't be the relationship-trashing issue that it is for non-swingers.

And, that's not necessarilly a bad thing. By swinging, we have demystified the concept of extra-marital sex and, hopefully, rendered it powerless as something that can control us, or cause us pain. It forces us to accept that our relationships are about more than that.

I love and trust my wife, but, if she cheated on me, at this point, it wouldn't carry a fraction of the weight that it would if we were non-swingers.

[Brian and Jo]

We have a completely open marriage and absolutely no secrets. Both of us are free to do whatever we want with whomever we want. When we were working and travelling separately that meant a lot of one night stands for both of us. Our golden rule was that we had to tell each other what if anything we had been up to on our trips. Not to tell would have constituted cheating.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally Posted by Brian and Jo

We have a completely open marriage and absolutely no secrets. Both of us are free to do whatever we want with whomever we want. When we were working and travelling separately that meant a lot of one night stands for both of us. Our golden rule was that we had to tell each other what if anything we had been up to on our trips. Not to tell would have constituted cheating.

Just wondering about something. In another thread that we started, you mentioned that although you two do swing separately from time to time, you always stay within your circle of regular swing friends. Yet you've stated here you're both free to do "whatever with whomever". Does that include those outside your group?

Dan

[incommunicado]

Originally Posted by Brian and Jo

We have a completely open marriage and absolutely no secrets. Both of us are free to do whatever we want with whomever we want. When we were working and travelling separately that meant a lot of one night stands for both of us. Our golden rule was that we had to tell each other what if anything we had been up to on our trips. Not to tell would have constituted cheating.

Right, but what would be the reaction to cheating? What would be the consequences? Could you, or would you, be as deeply and sincerely wounded as you would be, had you maintained a monogomous lifesyle?

[Brian and Jo]

Here is our response to the two posts above.
1)To Canadian Couple the word "when" is important. When we were both working we had plenty of one night stands when we were travelling. Now that we are retired that sort of opportunity rarely presents itself. We now do most of our swinging within our group of regular friends, but as we have mentionned in other posts we do swing outside the group every now and then when we visit a local swingers club and when we are on vacation.
2)To Incommunicado had either of us been caught cheating it would have been a very difficult situation and very hurtful to the other party. I always told Jo what I had been up to and I am confident that she did likewise. Indeed fessing up was a turnon for both of us and invariably led to some great sex.

[Cheekyimp1]

Well with us cheating means not telling the other we've had sex with someone else. Hubby and I only swing together though after learning that he can't cope with me going out alone even if I tell him before that I'm going to do it and after what has happened. It's been said on here before that communication is the key to a good relationship and especially important in this lifestyle. Hubby and I discussed at length why it bothered him when I went off alone and he can't handle not know what's going on right then and there. So I've compromised and things are going very well. As for getting emotionally attached, that's a given. Don't fall in love.

[sexypairca]

In my book cheating is deception. If you know that your actions would hurt your partner or that he/she would not approve, you shouldn't be doing it .

Despite the fact that we have made the choice to swing, I do not see this as cheating. While we are no longer monogamous, this has not taken away our trust for each other.

"A" the wife

<small>[ 07-09-2002, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: sexypairca ]</small>