Would you Attend a church for swingers

[Lee_0040]

If you could find a church and its pastor that is supportive of swinging (must like the gay community and their churches) in your area, would to attend.

[Spoomonkey]

I voted "no"...

But - I wouldn't neccassrily say that it's my "final answer."

One of the struggles that I have had, personally, is finding a church where I fit. The churches that are conservative theologically tend to be "graceless" when it comes to dealing with sexual issues - they reject homosexuals out of hand and would completely balk at any idea of swinging...

Churches that may be open to the ideas of swinging and other sexual liberties tend to be extremely liberal theologically.

My personal beliefs blend a conservative theology with sexual freedom. If there were a church that was able to do that, I'd be incredibly interested...

I don't expect something like that to exist - or be demographically possible.

Spoomonkey

[Just_us49]

Dito Mr Spoo

[Zoe&Wash]

Gotta say that I'm still trying to get used to the, well, for lack of a better term "social conservatism" of this crowd. Zoe is impressed as well - "They're all grown ups!"

Without getting into the inevitable theological debate, I wholeheartedly agree with the resident chimp on this one.

W

[intuition897]

Dito to Spoomonkey!! My thoughts exactly.

Here comes a personal opinion about religion. Skip it if it offends you.

Each person's relationship with God is a very personal one. Churches are Man's way of organizing and categorizing these relationships into like-minded support groups. That's just my take on it. And I have yet to find a church that fits my beliefs closely enough to attend regularly. I'd probably steer well away from a church that drew people to it by making everything a 'gray area', so that no one had to feel guilty about their wrongdoings. I do not feel that what we are doing is wrong or sinful, but I believe that many people who swing, are gay, are into other alternative lifestyles, or whatever, and feel it is wrong would flock to a place that made it 'ok' to be bad. I think sin is relative; if you're doing wrong and you know it and continue to do it, that is sin. If what you do truly harms no one, and you make a point of ensuring that it doesn't, that isn't sin.

I think I'd rather go to a church that gets its pews filled the old fashioned way, and focus on the real reason that you're there which is to worship...not to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy and pretend everything is ok.

[Nymph an' Satyr]

Opiate of the people baby.

[amBIdextrous]

Have not been inside a church since the year dot, and have not intention of ever going near one. I do not like hypocrites.

[Lee_0040]

I am glad to hear from many of you. I am a retired minister for over 20 years. I just moved to the Northwest Ohio area near the Indiana line. I have been in and my wife and I are still active in the lifestyle and have counseled couples about their sexuality.

As spoomonkey stated there are many churches that are liberal. Meaning not accepting the true meaning of what it was intended for. Caring for one another, loving one another and learning from one another. Moreover worshiping God in their own way. In fact, 90 percent of the churches that I served fought among themselves and have become a social club. Others see God as more of a thought and not a being that can transform lives. I have gone to conservative Seminaries, and posses a PH.D in counseling. Therefore I know the struggles from both sides. I hope that I can hope others with their struggles and concerns without trying to change them.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by amBIdextrous

Have not been inside a church since the year dot, and have not intention of ever going near one. I do not like hypocrites.

We all have to follow our own path, but that's what makes a place like this great! We can be who we are, honetly, openly and without being shamed. If we can respect each other, regardless of race, religion, political views, etc. then this is truely an open-minded place.

Theological debate is pointless in a place like this - sharing ones views and struggles is not.

Spoomonkey

[dayhiker]

I go to a very conservative church. I like the fact that they believe and teach
the Trinity and the Doctrine of Christ. In the last year I have told my wife
and the leaders of the church that I think swinging is not sinful. Neither my
wife or the church leaders are very happy with me. Tho the church leaders
have shown me that they love me by meeting with me and discussing scripture.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I suspect I'll not be able to teach
Bible studies there again.

day

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by dayhiker

I go to a very conservative church. I like the fact that they believe and teach
the Trinity and the Doctrine of Christ. In the last year I have told my wife
and the leaders of the church that I think swinging is not sinful. Neither my
wife or the church leaders are very happy with me. Tho the church leaders
have shown me that they love me by meeting with me and discussing scripture.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I suspect I'll not be able to teach
Bible studies there again.

day

Wow. Way to take on the man! In an ideal world, open minds would be the rule, not the exception. My husband and I believe the same thing (that swinging is neither immoral nor sinful) but we would feel it a futile waste of energy to try and convince others - particularly in an institution that traditionally is DEAD SET against anything but strictest sexual monogamy - of the validity of our beliefs. Now I still love a good argument (which is why I post on so many controversial threads on the board) but I'm learning that people will believe what they choose to believe. And minds just do not open themselves. You can't convince anyone of anything they don't want to believe, and let's face it: the concept of allowing your partner the freedom to choose is pretty scary. It's much safer to wave the marriage certificate in the air and say, "Nope, you had your chance to bail out 20 years ago at the altar but you signed the contract and now I gotcha!" And who's to say they're wrong? Certainly not the church who married them! It doesn't matter how un-right this 'lock-down' concept is because there's always the social safety net that backs them up in their insecurity, saying "You're absolutely right! He/She should've thought more carefully about the repercussions of saying those vows and now he/she has to live by that choice." How scary is it to open up that contract again and renegotiate it on a daily basis? Pretty damn scary! Why? Because how do we know our spouse will make the same choice?

Better question would be "Why are we afraid they would choose someone else?" If we're that worried, that might be pointing to the guilt we feel over not being the best spouse we can be, not showing enough appreciation, letting that spare tire around our middles continue to grow...simply taking one another for granted. We get lazy. Swinging causes us to realize that - hey! - we're not the only fish in the sea and it only makes sense to work on being someone our spouses would choose to spend their lives with on a day to day basis. I think that's a great thing.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intuition897

My husband and I believe the same thing (that swinging is neither immoral nor sinful) but we would feel it a futile waste of energy to try and convince others - particularly in an institution that traditionally is DEAD SET against anything but strictest sexual monogamy - of the validity of our beliefs.

I agree. I finally resigned to one painful fact of life - everyone fancies themselves a theologian

All we can do is find what we feel deeply is the truth and pursue it. For some of us, that is a traditional religion - but we have gone a step further in questioning the "truths" that we were taught. We have not abandoned our faiths or bastardized it - we have embraced it and taken it deeper.

But trying to help others see that is not so much futile as it is scary. The EASY way choice is simply to accept the concept of monogamy - as you said, "wave the marriage certificate" - and to go no further. There is no challenge or threat in that...

It just simply isn't true...

But - hey - I don't need to change everyone's mind. There are a lot of people at my church who I'd rather not meet at the club anyway

Originally Posted by intuition897

Swinging causes us to realize that - hey! - we're not the only fish in the sea and it only makes sense to work on being someone our spouses would choose to spend their lives with on a day to day basis. I think that's a great thing.

This is a GREAT point! I spend a lot of time working to improve myself for greater lifestyle success, but also because I want to be the most incredible man that Mrs Spoo will ever meet. Swinging gives a guy some great motivations to be a better husband - and one thing society needs is that. So, in a sense, we have a better "marriage" plan than Focus On The Family

Spoomonkey

[two4youinswva]

No, I wouldn't, and Mrs two4you possibly would.

I grew up in a very conservative church, that strove to follow the New Testament church to the Nth degree. As I got older, I began questioning many of the bible's teachings, (insert numerous internal struggles here) and, over time, I have "gone agnostic".

Lately, I've been studying Objectivism, which isn't a religion but a philosophy. An interesting one at that, IMHO, but I digress...

"No" is my final answer

two4you

-and may we all find the answers we are looking for

[JennyMac]

Whew...

We are Gnostic...not traditional Gnostic (knowing)...incase anyone looks it up and not Agnostic (which means knowing nothing).

We believe that everyone is here to find their own path and everyone one you encounter is in your life for learning purposes. When people fall away from your life, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it just means that you have learned all that you can from that person and the relationship isn't mutally beneficial anymore. We also don't believe in "sin" (whoah I'm gonna get some hate mail over this one) because every thing you do is for your own experience and perfection of your own soul.

So I voted "yes" because if I could find a church that even taught something close to "Live your life as best you can and do what works for you. Don't hurt anyone else. Be good to others and do good for others and then go home and be with God" I would join in a New York minute.

Jenn

[corkwan]

i think everyone is a spiritual being, to some degree. it is how you come to terms with it. some people want to be part of a community, which is how most churches opperate, other people want to have a 'relationship with god' and that can be done in many ways. i think most 'religious' people are actually just stating they belong to a certain social network, which subscribes to ideals. this breeds much confusion for people, since often they want to belong to the social group but don't necessarily subscribe to the ideals.

i don't think making everyone accept your ideals is the way. ideals are personal. this is one of my major turn-offs of most religions, that they enforce these ideals. there is not much room for freedom.

i am actually an ordained minister. you can be too (http://www.ulc.org/)with email confirmation, you can have your own church.

We believe that everyone is already a member of the church and is just not aware of it as yet. The Universal Life Church will ordain anyone who asks, without question of faith, for life, without a fee. Just select "Be Ordained" to complete the process right here on our website. The church has two tenets: the absolute right of freedom of religion and to do that, which is right. Anything else within the law is allowed.

The Universal Life Church will not stand between you and your God and recognizes that each person must choose his or her own path. Each person in the ULC is free to follow any path as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.