Bi-women who don't go down

[sweet_tna]

To date, I've done about everything but give oral to another woman. I'm listed as bi curious in my sls profile and am very upfront about my "limit". At this point, it's a matter of me feeling brave enough to try it. Ironically, most of my FF experiences have been in group situation, which is when I'd be least likely to feel brave enough.

But I figure when I'm ready for the "training wheels" to come off, they will.

=)

[pervgeeks]

I'm bi and while I enjoy giving somewhat more than receiving (in fact my favorite probably is going down on another woman while I'm getting fucked by a man and watching her give oral to my husband), we do not usually (knowingly anyway) go into situations with women who are unwilling to give. We have made it pretty clear in our profile of this. Unfortunately, they're out there and it ends up being a let down for those of us that are actually bi. "Bi for the guy", "bi for show", and "bi-selfish" women, if you're strait, call yourself strait. Be who you are and just be honest about it! No reason to unnecessarily tease the truly bi women. If we were with a couple and she stated honestly, "I've never been with a woman and I'm unsure. I'd like to experience this, but I'm not sure how I feel about giving yet. Can we go slow?", that's one thing (it's at least honest and for that, I'd be willing to do my part to make her feel very good), but to say you also like women, dance, kiss and get touchy-feely with another woman (who is bi) all night and then nothing just isn't being honest.

Not to mention if you're so passive you call yourself bi when you're not to please your man, you're probably going to be too passive with my husband for his tastes as well. People who are sexually skilled and confident don't need to make up stories regarding their sexual preferences. They are who they are and look for like-minded people without apology. There is someone out there for everyone. Be yourself and there's no doubt many into the same thing.

[SnowwwWhite]

Originally Posted by pervgeeks

"Bi for the guy", "bi for show", and "bi-selfish" women

The term "bi-selfish" makes me think that the bisexual woman who chooses to use that term in a demeaning way is the more selfish one in the equation. As in she didn't get enough information up front and then expects the other woman to perform an act she's not comfortable with... and punishes her by calling her "selfish."

Sure, not wanting to give oral (male or female) is considered selfish. But directing frustration onto a person because they don't want to do something is equally as selfish. I really don't think anyone should ever be guilted or pressured into something.

I do agree with the rest of your post.... no wonder you're frustrated. Women should definitely cop to their true sexuality when posting ads. I'm guessing many women think they're bi because they appreciate the female form and enjoy their male partner's reaction to FF play, not to mention it's hip to be bi these days and "everyone's doing it." These women probably just haven't been educated to provide a distinction as a courtesy to true bisexuals. There are plenty of terms available to define a person's sexuality but not everyone knows this.

Given that it's probably not that they're intentionally misleading you, it would be really nice and "unselfish" of you to relax and give them some slack. Especially if you're at a club or party where you haven't had a chance to qualify people's complete sexual identity in advance of playing. If you go into the situation without the expectation that a woman is fully bi (unless you've asked) then you won't be disappointed.

I assume in your profile that you make it clear you're seeking fully bisexual women who love both giving and receiving. I'm not sure where you've encountered the "bi for the guy" women, but it sounds like it could have been a situation where they didn't realize they needed to be "bi for the girl" as well. They probably thought it was okay for them to just be who they are and do what they want to do and let you do the same.

The thing is, you know there's a situation where a lot of women call themselves bi but are clueless as to the real definition (and aren't prepared to provide oral sex to you). It's not like they offer a class for this in school, "Gay and Bisexual Etiquette 101" so it's really not their fault. It's up to the people who know the right way to play to educate the people they come into contact with.... but it should be done in a caring, patient way or some people could come away with a bad impression of their interactions with bisexual women.

The problem is not that the women didn't reciprocate. It's that your expectation was not in line with their sexuality. Basically there was a missing piece of information and you made an erroneous assumption. The solution is to qualify your play partners if you want a truly bisexual experience.

[pervgeeks]

Originally Posted by SnowwwWhite

The term "bi-selfish" makes me think that the bisexual woman who chooses to use that term in a demeaning way is the more selfish one in the equation. As in she didn't get enough information up front and then expects the other woman to perform an act she's not comfortable with... and punishes her by calling her "selfish."

I think if it's a situation with anyone where one person wants someone to give them oral and is not willing in return, it is somewhat selfish. If a man was talking with you for hours, you were kissing, touching, and then when it came time to play, he did nothing (not even manual stimulation) after you "took care of him", you might be a little . If I did that to a male partner, it would be selfish of me as well. All I'm saying is people really need to communicate. If you're a man who wants head from a woman and are unwilling in return, he should also communicate that too. My post isn't an attack on strait or bi-curious women and of course no one should do anything they aren't comfortable with, but it isn't fair of people to misrepresent themselves either.

I have no issue with people exploring their interests/curiosities and our profile is very specific and we have learned through trial and error to communicate extensively (my personal experience of feeling "teased" happened almost a year ago when we were fairly new and needed further communication skills ourselves). Some women call themselves bi-curious because they prefer men as "the main course" (which is very similar to how I am), others do because they have never done anything with women are are truly "curious", but ultimately have little interest beyond a little kissing and teasing. It's pretty tough to know unless you talk beforehand. That we do- extensively.

In addition, please don't tell me to "relax". I'm an extremely relaxed, courteous person who is never rude to people (probably part of why I certainly never did or would try to push anyone into anything). That was condescending and somewhat of a personal attack. My post was not directed personally toward anyone, but you chose to take it that way and become defensive. Perhaps you became so defensive because you may have recognized something within yourself and realized it's YOU that needs to communicate a little more. Seriously, just like what you like, don't like what you don't like, just be honest about it. For some of us, being bi is who've we've been for years and it's not a "fad". It's a part of who we are.

[xray]

reply to post by SnowwwWhite


I agree with you.

Did you express your feelings in this manner because you were receiving pressure to go beyond your limits from another woman?

If yes, you must have felt angst about what was your role in Swing. How did you handle the break off? Did the other woman pout.

What is the best way to communicate your feelings at the beginning of a new woman encounter?

I understand your husband is not even an issue in this matter.

[SnowwwWhite]

Originally Posted by pervgeeks

In addition, please don't tell me to "relax". I'm an extremely relaxed, courteous person who is never rude to people (probably part of why I certainly never did or would try to push anyone into anything). That was condescending and somewhat of a personal attack.

Sorry, I didn't mean "relax" in a condescending way. Just an example of how sometimes words don't come across exactly as you intend them to in the forums. I was "thinking" relax in a calming way but I can accept the words maybe didn't sound as soothing on paper. Sorry if you found that offensive.

[SnowwwWhite]

Originally Posted by xray

Did you express your feelings in this manner because you were receiving pressure to go beyond your limits from another woman?

If yes, you must have felt angst about what was your role in Swing. How did you handle the break off? Did the other woman pout.

What is the best way to communicate your feelings at the beginning of a new woman encounter?

Hi xray, thanks.

I think there are a few reasons I felt compelled to communicate on this particular issue. First off, I really took offense to the word "bi-selfish" and the other two euphemisms used in the original post.

No, I haven't been in that exact situation, but I could easily see it happening to me as a newbie. If during play, a female bisexual started to go down on me I wouldn't particularly be excited by it, but I would let it happen and enjoy the moment if I thought this was simply something she wanted to do.

It bothers me to think that she would later be upset and pissed off that I didn't go down on her, and call me a demeaning name like "bi for the guy" or "bi-selfish" .....when honestly I wouldn't have realized there was an expectation for me to do something I don't feel comfortable with. I enjoy oral on a man very much (and oral on myself not so much) so I would naturally assume maybe she enjoys oral on a woman very much. How am I to know she's doing it with "specific" strings attached if she doesn't communicate?

I was feeling it from that perspective and thought "Hey, I'm a fair-minded person and also very giving, so it upsets me to think there are bisexual women out there making up names to insult women who just simply don't realize!" And I think it would be pretty obvious to most true bisexual women that many straight and "bi-curious" (or whatever) women do not typically go down on other women. I think that's the whole foundation of the original post anyway.

The other reason I responded to the post was because it was very clear to me that communication was at the heart of the OP's issue. Sure, there may be selfish takers out there who intentionally lead people on, but I tend to believe that most people don't want to be like that. If a bisexual woman will communicate clearly what she wants and expects before the playing begins, everything would be handled before there's any frustration or resentment on either side.

Not everyone "knows the code" when it comes to bisexuality and I just feel that bisexuals have to be sensitive to the loose definition of "bi" these days and not go into an encounter expecting anything if they haven't communicated that they expect a fully-reciprocal encounter. I know that puts more responsibility on them, but then again we each shoulder extra responsibility for the things we have more knowledge about, or for getting the things we want and need.

Hope that answers your question!

[curiouscpl72]

I am so confused by all the terminology.....I think im just bi and ill go with that lol...

P

[two42lovers]

We often talk about the importance of being clear about boundaries. Being clear ahead of time about what you are after is just as essential.

Kiss her and smile and ask, "are you into giving and recieving?"

As far as I can tell, the only thing we know "bi-curious" means is she is not bisexual. ("Bisexual" is one of the choices she specifically didn't pick it... )

[lunarlady]

When I had limited experience with women, I was somewhat scared of going 'downtown,' mostly because I felt like I didn't know what I was doing. Now I've had a few short relationships with women, and sex with a few more. But I still get nervous sometimes because every woman responds differently, and some take a long time to orgasm. Guys are so much easier I love going down on a woman though; it's awesome. Everyone has boundries, gay, bisexual, or straight, and these should be respected. There's nothing worse than doing something with someone when they really aren't into it.

[JustMrsJ]

I agree with Mrs. Good Times. I am straight but I don't mind woman kissing me or fondling me but I would not have woman go down on me. I am not comfortable with that.

[Nickii_Lee]

I am exploring my Bi-side. I am finding myself more and more sexually attracted to women. This is after my first experience - full experience, oral and all. I say I'm Bi-comfortable because I'm very inexperienced, but interested. One girl's profile I saw described herself as Bi-Situational. That may be more accurate for me too. It really is dependent on the girl and of course, chemistry. I do see girls kiss and pet because their man likes it, it is a bit misleading. Especially for me who is unsure of the girls who want more or are just playing at it. At the same time, I don't say Bi-Sexual because I'm not there yet, not quite ready for one-on-ones or one-on-more with the females. Maybe that's why I have such a desire for couples- for me it fits all my wants. This my expand as I go...i'm finding my attraction to females grow stronger - or maybe I'm finally discovering what was always there.

[SweetandSalty1]

I am very bi-curious. To date I have never done anything at all with another woman but if I had the chance (and if it was a woman I was attracted to) I really think I would go down on her. It would be scary though. I really feel like I know what I am doing in terms of oral sex on males but on females I would have no idea. I guess I would just go by what I think would feel good.

[jimnjan]

Then there's me...I'm VERY Bicurious....why am I listed as CURIOUS?
1)You list yourself as BI and every couple thinks you will automatically play with the female. BECAUSE YOU ARE BI.
My response? I don't fuck every guy I see, I have to be attracted to them....just like playing with a girl. ALOT of people DO NOT understand that.
2)My first FULLY BI experience with a woman I would prefer to do as a 1 on 1 event. NO SPECTATORS. OMG, can you imagine the first time you had sex had to be with people watching??? Talk about performance anxiety!
3)I have had some bad experiences. Like with the first two women I was ever with....to use my kids terms...they smelled like a swamp, completely nasty...now I am very gunshy. Not that I haven't gone down on a woman, I have (a little, twice), but I had to be completely comfortable with both halves of the couple. The first time was at a club in a semi-private room (curtain for a door) another couple came in and tried to join in...Oh just frigging great (didn't even know them - and the male half of that couple just starts trying to finger me!?!?!?) The other time, she had acted into me, but when I went to go down, she pushed me away.

So, as I stated, would love to go 1 on 1 with no spectators with someone I was very attracted to, know a few women who would be willing, but their husbands say "NO", because they have to be there??? They know me & my husband, and know that he would NOT be there, and would be willing to keep her SO company while us girls played. NOT GOOD ENOUGH for them.

So, here I am, still bi-curious....and writing novels...LMAO

Jan

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by jimnjan

Then there's me...I'm VERY Bicurious....why am I listed as CURIOUS?
1)You list yourself as BI and every couple thinks you will automatically play with the female. BECAUSE YOU ARE BI.
My response? I don't fuck every guy I see, I have to be attracted to them....just like playing with a girl. ALOT of people DO NOT understand that.
2)My first FULLY BI experience with a woman I would prefer to do as a 1 on 1 event. NO SPECTATORS. OMG, can you imagine the first time you had sex had to be with people watching??? Talk about performance anxiety!

AMEN, sister! These are two of the reasons I still have my "training wheels" on.

3)I have had some bad experiences. Like with the first two women I was ever with....to use my kids terms...they smelled like a swamp, completely nasty...now I am very gunshy. Not that I haven't gone down on a woman, I have (a little, twice), but I had to be completely comfortable with both halves of the couple. The first time was at a club in a semi-private room (curtain for a door) another couple came in and tried to join in...Oh just frigging great (didn't even know them - and the male half of that couple just starts trying to finger me!?!?!?) The other time, she had acted into me, but when I went to go down, she pushed me away.

So, as I stated, would love to go 1 on 1 with no spectators with someone I was very attracted to, know a few women who would be willing, but their husbands say "NO", because they have to be there??? They know me & my husband, and know that he would NOT be there, and would be willing to keep her SO company while us girls played. NOT GOOD ENOUGH for them.

So, here I am, still bi-curious....and writing novels...LMAO

Jan

I haven't quite had the negative experiences you have, but I am pretty sure I wouldn't have the nerve to go down on a woman for the first time in a group situation, which is where the majority of my bi experiences have occurred.

That said, I don't think I'd require strictly a one-on-one situation. If I trusted the other couple enough, then I'd be okay with just our hubbies present.

And rest assured, you're not the only one still bi curious and writing novels.

=)