Does a History of Cheating Lead to Swinging?

[AlanCatherine]

I think it is a trend. Years ago, it seemed it was the man who was "out running around" Now it seems I mostly hear of the female doing it. Times change, attitudes change, behaviors change.

CuriousAgain? Who was the man out cheating with??? Maybe you are just hearing the woman's side of it more? I mean they don't just go out and cheat do they? They have to be doing it with someone so I imagine there is a reasonably even number of both sexes, now AND then...

Or do you mean "out running around"?

[Vespertine]

From what I understand "out running around" means to cheat, to be out at bars or such, looking for women/men to pick up. Being out of the house, looking for a piece of ass. Acting single, if you will.

I agree with CA. In the past, more men would be screwing their secretarys or single female coworkers, or single females they'd meet when they were "out running around"....while the wife stayed home with the kids.

I've see a lot of women out there "running around" while their husband's are home with the kids or wherever. Hell, just watch Oprah... She'll tell you all about it.

I think it's because women aren't so dependent on their husbands anymore. Nowadays, we have high paying jobs, nannys, and an equality we didn't have a few decades ago. We're not tied to the house with a bunch of babies on our hips. Some of us even have male secretarys.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

I've seen a lot of women out there "running around" while their husband's are home with the kids or wherever... Nowadays, we have high paying jobs, nannys, and an equality we didn't have a few decades ago. We're not tied to the house with a bunch of babies on our hips.

I think the internet has changed dating habits and expectations even more that the pill did. Now that women can "run around" without leaving the house, more than ever are doing it.

What suprises me most is how cavalier some women are about having sex with men they've never met other than online. Some of the stories one hears go beyond just having a "little innocent fun" and border on the pathological.

(For example...a woman meeting a man late at night in a well-lit coffee shop and chatting for an hour or two before proceeding back to her condo probably isn't placing herself at risk, especially if they've been chatting on the phone as well. But a woman meeting a new chat-room buddy at a Florida rest stop at 3 A.M., then having sex in the back seat of her car is STUPID)

About half the divorced people I know admit to some infidelity in their past. In the past, it was often an ex-lover or somebody they knew from work. But increasingly, it's become somebody they met in a chat room. Their reasons for cheating are predictable..."My spouses [alcoholism/cheating/inattention/abuse/frigidity/or whatever] drove me into the arms of the other person" It's not the worst thing I can know about a person, and it's never an automatic deal-breaker for me.

It used to be that if we knew where our spouses were, we pretty much knew what they were doing. Even though the sex act itself can be over relatively quickly, the preliminaries...the process of selection, flirting, courtship, etc., can take weeks or months. So if your spouse spent most of their day in their office or home with the kids, there was a pretty good chance they weren't fooling around. But now that people are able to get the preliminaries out of the way via the internet, they don't need to spend vast amounts of time away from their responsibilities. The "date" happens in the chat room, and concludes with sex in the parking lot at the mall.

And me? I am SO glad I'm single...

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by JnCC

I think the internet has changed dating habits and expectations even more that the pill did. Now that women can "run around" without leaving the house, more than ever are doing it.

I forgot to include this in my reasons why more women are cheating.

This would have to be the #1 reason, I think.

[curiousagain]

I am sure there are a lot of reasons but I have to agree the internet is a large part of it. One of the reasons I stopped using vanilla internet dating sites is that I discovered a lot of the "single" women on there are actually married. Now the fact that a lot of the "single" males on there are actually married is old news. But, maybe it's just me, but I thought the fact that so many married women are using it to cheat is relatively new. But, maybe I am behind the times.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by curiousagain

One of the reasons I stopped using vanilla internet dating sites is that I discovered a lot of the "single" women on there are actually married.

I haven't run across too many married women on the vanilla sites. Maybe it's because I rarely respond to ads without pics, and they're understandably hesitant to post pics on singles websites.

The best one of all time was the woman who contacted me, listing herself as "separated." Meeting over coffee, she seemed friendly, but exceptionally guarded about her living arrangements, and when her kids got to spend time with their dad, etc. I told her that I wasn't trying to pry into her personal affairs, but as a part-time dad myself, it was hard to maintain our conversation without knowing if she's married, divorced, living together, etc. She drew up her breath, and started telling me about how she was, in fact "separated"...courtesy of the state. Her husband was 2 years into a 10-year sentence for molesting the son of a family friend. She blamed it all on his alcoholism.

I've been drunk before...REALLY drunk. But I've never been so drunk that putting the penis of a 10 year-old boy into my mouth seemed like a good idea.

Waiter! Check please!

[savannah_bi_fem]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Cheating seems to be the hot topic of late and some of the comments in the thread "more on cheating" made me wonder... is there some sort of connection between those who have cheated or been cheated on in the past turning to swinging in future relationships? Is it possibly some people's way of preventing cheating. Kind of like the idea that if drugs were legal we wouldn't have a drug problem in the US? Well if the acts that are usually considered cheating in a relationship are ok'ed by the parties in that relationship (thus they agree to swing), then cheating won't be a problem anymore.

Any thoughts?

What a fascinating topic. I voted "my spouse was cheated on in a past relationship". I've never cheated on anyone, or been cheated on (that I know of). My husband has never cheated on anyone, but was cheated on (an affair) by his ex-wife. He caught her at it, then she filed for divorce. We both had VERY vanilla marriages before each other. In my case: my ex-husband was very straight-laced and low-libido. I was quite a bit younger than him and somewhat naive when I married the first time (figured that things get better with marriage & time). Nope, they got worse, of course! Sex went from about 2-3 times a month as newlyweds, down to about 3-4 times a YEAR in the later years, and I always had to initiate. I have a high libido - but I stayed married to him for 15 years and didn't cheat. It was HARD! But, I chose to end the marriage and then move on with my life, later finding my match.

I think that some people are hardwired to not cheat on a spouse. I believe that I'm one of those people. I know that anybody can be tempted given the right circumstances, but I think that some people are far more resistant to actually giving in, no matter how bad it gets. I don't pretend to know why, but I definitely believe this. I think my husband is hardwired to not cheat, too.

Yet, we are swingers. Why? Not for the variety, exactly. Not for the feeling of "cheating, but with permission" as some people feel. We might be odd in this way in the swing community. But, we both agree (and I know we both believe this) that it's not about the variety, about getting some strange and being with other people. It's really about the two of us sharing a provocative sexual adventure, together. The reason the others are there is because they're part of OUR fantasy scenario. In other words, we are there for each other far more than we are there to experience the other(s). We enjoy watching each other have sex. We feel close without it, and we feel close when we share swinging. We both often say that we could stop swinging today and it wouldn't affect our relationship negatively with each other. Swinging isn't something we need. It's certainly not something we feel we need in order to manage our high libidos or our curiosity (or to keep us from cheating with others). It's just something we enjoy together occasionally, with the right people. In fact, we can't even enjoy it unless we know our mate is really enjoying it, too. Watching each other enjoying sex is our primary turn-on. As you can probably guess, we are same-room swingers. In fact, our sex with each other afterward is more intense than the experience with the other people was.

I don't believe that our not cheating or his past experience of being cheated on has anything to do with why we swing (answering the original question). We started with the pursuit of FMF/FFM threesome, because (1) I had bi fantasies and (2) he needed time to think about how he'd feel seeing me with another man, due to his past. I totally understood this and I'm sure I would have felt the same way if I'd been cheated on. In time and going slow, he found it to be a turn-on seeing me with a man, and he's very comfortable with it now.

We never discussed or seriously considered swinging until some time after we were married to each other. It's because we have learned how to open ourselves up to each other and really share deep things (which we never could do with our exes), we ventured there in our fantasy life together and then in reality.

Personally, I don't think that "super-couples" are a by-product of luck, right place, right time. I think it's mostly a matter of making the marriage and each other a very top priority, and working at breaking down communication barriers between each other. Two people are only as close as each person allows him or herself to be to another. People who are guarded or who hold secrets from their mate just aren't going to be open or comfortable with genuine disclosure. Openness leads to complete trust. Trust is broken by withholding and by deception.

In the current/new issue (Dec) of Marie Claire magazine, there's a huge article on cheating, what it is, emotional affairs, the affect of the Internet on cheating, etc. Great article! They report that in a study conducted with both men and women, the question being which is the worst part of being cheated on for you - the fact that your mate had sex with somebody else, or the deception? Around 75% of both men and women felt that the deception was the hardest part to get over, and the most destructive.

It's very hard to rebuild trust in somebody who shows themself to be adept at lies and cover-ups (which are a necessary part of cheating and/or affairs). That's very telling. For most people it's not so much about the sex as it is the secrets and lies. I feel the same way about it. If my mate can lie to me, and then tell another lie to cover up that one, and then another -- what have we got? Nothing.

I can't imagine getting into swinging with a partner that has cheated on me.

Also, I wouldn't touch a cheater with a 10-foot pole, as far as swing partners. So many of the "single men" we've been contacted by are really cheating husbands looking for a hook-up on their next business trip, etc. I include in the definition of "cheating" those who have secret email accounts for their secret profiles and personal ads, secret online cybersex friends, etc. I'm sure that many other people define these things as cheating, too.

[michelle101]

An interesting subject, one that the Mr.and I have touched on before.

If Mr.101 had cheated on my in the past, there is no way I would have considered the swinging lifestyle with him. My comfort level in this lifestyle, comes in part, by knowing he would never do that. It comes from my trust in him. Had he ever done anything to break that trust, then I don't think there would have been a solid enough foundation of trust to work from. Which I believe is key.

I would never say to myself, Well, he cheated on me, maybe we should swing so it won't happen again. Swingers can cheat too. And without the trust that he wouldn't cheat, swinging would just be a big weight on my shoulders as opposed to the fun time sharing my husband, that it is now.

On the other hand, the Mr. and I have been exclusive since High school, so the thought has crossed my mind that by the time he reaches a certain age, whatever that age may be, that he will get to a point of saying wow, I've only been with one woman my whole life. That sucks. Now, this thought is not why we began swinging, we began because I had fantacies of seeing Mr.101 with other woman as well as others about group activities, but it certainly does wipe out the thought of wow, only one woman my whole life. It makes me feel good that he is having all kinds of new experiences with different people. And I love to see him enjoying himself. Swinging has only enhanced our relationship in a possitive way. So, am I trying to prevent him from cheating by swinging, no, but you gotta think, although I know it happens, why would anyone cheat on their SO if they swing with them? If there is someone the Mr. is interested in, he comes right out and tells me. There is no need to sneak around. And also, he says he loves that I am right there cheering him on!

[pairbond]

Cheating had nothing at all to do with our interest in swinging, although we know couples who got started swinging as a result of one or the other of them having cheated.

My wife cheated on her 1st husband. I never cheated on my first wife, although as our marriage started deteriorating we tried open marriage and both of us had sex with other people. Open marriage, like swinging, is not a cure for a troubled marriage.

My current wife and I have not cheated on each other. We got into swinging due to a combination of curiousity, recognition that we were getting older and it was "now or never," so to speak, and because we had relocated to a new city where we had neither friends nor relatives within 500 miles of us and we hoped that swinging and physical intimacy with others would make it much easier to establish intimate friendships. It worked. Several of the couples who were the first ones we started swinging with are still our closest friends after almost 9 years now.

[havefuninsun]

I don’t see a correlation between what kind of “lifestyle” you live now vs. before and cheating. Cheating happens every day between all walks of life – there is a 50% divorce rate, for crying out loud. And a lot of those divorces have to do with someone cheating on someone else.

Of my friends who cheated on their spouses, it was clearly an emotional affair, and had nothing really to do with sex per se. If they were interested enough to become emotionally involved in a member of the opposite sex, SOMETHING was missing in their relationship. Their current relationships were not providing what they needed. Pure and simple.

From what I have read on these boards and from what I feel, this is why I think cheating/affairs/etc. are less likely to happen to folks who swing: They COMMUNICATE with each other better than any group of people I’ve ever seen. And I feel like that, too – not only am I more open about how I feel about swinging, sex, sex with someone else besides my partner, but I find that I feel less inhibited sharing other things, too, that make a relationship work. We talk a lot about how we FEEL – does this feel right, wrong, etc. … it has helped us be much more open.

Can vanilla people achieve this? Certainly. But because they’re not forced to communicate about something so close to them … sex with someone else besides their partner … I think it’s easier for them to hold their emotions in and not talk about the way they FEEL. And it’s easier for the party who is hearing about the “feelings” to dismiss them. If I say to Mr. Fun “I have a bad feeling about X,” he is all ears. He wants me feeling good; he wants me not to worry or be jealous, and he wants to hear all about my desires. Then again, maybe that’s why we’re a strong enough couple to venture into this lifestyle…

So, if we cheated or not in our past has nothing to do with who we are today. Most of us seem to be in very close and unbelievably tight relationships. THAT is what makes cheating unappealing; we would never DISRESPECT our partners that way because we are too close to them to do that. Sharing what we share is where it’s at.

[intuition897]

Well said HavinFun!

[Menage_a_Trois]

Originally Posted by good times

We have also ran into two couples who were maried but not to each other. We didn't want to play with them but we talked to the second couple enough to find out that evidentely cheaters think of swing clubs as places they can go where they are unlikely to get caught.

I have run into this ALOT as well. It's like they think it's their playground. PLEASE get a room......

The Other Mrs. Menage

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

Of my friends who cheated on their spouses, it was clearly an emotional affair, and had nothing really to do with sex per se. If they were interested enough to become emotionally involved in a member of the opposite sex, SOMETHING was missing in their relationship. Their current relationships were not providing what they needed. Pure and simple.

Exactly. Usually it's not the sex that sucks, it's the relationship. And if the sex does suck it's because relationship sucks and you don't put too much effort into sex with someone you resent for one reason or another.

I've said this exact thing before. Although some do cheat because of sexual problems in the relationship, the majority of affairs happen because of emotional issues in the marriage. And many times the sexual problems are an effect of the emotional problems. But, people don't look past the surface of "I'm not getting any" to see why they aren't getting any.

Mr. WS

[cumhungrycouple]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Exactly. Usually it's not the sex that sucks, it's the relationship. And if the sex does suck it's because relationship sucks and you don't put too much effort into sex with someone you resent for one reason or another.

I've said this exact thing before. Although some do cheat because of sexual problems in the relationship, the majority of affairs happen because of emotional issues in the marriage. And many times the sexual problems are an effect of the emotional problems. But, people don't look past the surface of "I'm not getting any" to see why they aren't getting any.

Mr. WS

there alwasy sems to be many reasons why people cheat but mostly seems to be

Single men with GF: cheat as they want lots of ONS partners - one safe always there girl and plenty of others. its not the sex its the "hey i am a stud" machoness. To me this is insecurity

Married men and women: seems to me mostly happens out of "boredom" people want romance and the thrill of a "secret" relationship. Also for men at mid-life or so the "I am still a stud" and for women "I am still attractive" thing

Swinging doesnt fill these requirements fully - well a man can prove his "stud like capabilities" but that infers a selfish attitude no good with 3+some - well not for long!

I think mostly happy swingers are happy a they have strong relationships and wouldnt cheat on their partners but can have the extra fun and possibilities 3+ can provide. This implies that if stop swinging then no cheating.

Thats different to saying swingers are happy as they can "legit cheat". Ok for some maybe thats needed but for most? It does imply that if a couple stop swinging then one or both will eventually cheat for the "variety" so you have to keep on swinging. This by the way is how most non-swingers seem to me see swingers. horny cheaters that say "lets do it in front of wach other". somehow I find that an unromantic thought

You can have a lot of sexual variety and excitemnet with one person anyway with some imagination, a camcorder, pvc outfits.........

I suppose the wife and I are still old fashioned in that fidelity, committment and trust are still foundations of marriage. If we stop swinging (and will have to when living in her home town) then we know we wont cheat - and I will face 100's of cute yound sexy things after me so I have to be trust worthy. Old fashioned romantics!

What do others think?

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by cumhungrycouple

there alwasy sems to be many reasons why people cheat but mostly seems to be

Single men with GF: cheat as they want lots of ONS partners - one safe always there girl and plenty of others. its not the sex its the "hey i am a stud" machoness. To me this is insecurity

This seems more like keeping her around while looking for something better.

Mr. WS