Does a History of Cheating Lead to Swinging?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Paramour2_99

The first look recognizes the beauty - the second look or continued gaze allows lust to kick in.

So - you cast your vote at "BootyVote.com" before the second look?

Actually - based on the statistics, Christian marriages are much more likely to end in divorce than Athiest/Agnostic marriages. Personally, as a Christian, I think this is very much because of the bondage that Puritanical Christianity has placed most Christian marriages in.

Christian men struggle with the "lusts" that have them wanting sex more than once a month, while their wives sit back under their golden parachute of "good Christians don't divorce".

It is amazing that - according to a study by "New Man" magazine (a Christian publication), Christians have a much higher rate of addiction to pornography, with an even higher percentage being those in full time ministry...

The greatest glue to a marriage - and a thing that most close-minded Christians don't realize - is an adventurous sex life. This can be through hot monogamy and, yes, through a lifestyle that is a bit more adventurous. An amourous wife is the best cure for porn addiction (a thing Christians struggle with staggering numbers) and the best way to have an amourous wife is to be an attentive husband (a thing that Christians struggle with because they are too busy "defining roles").

If Christians would get their heads out of the sand and deal with the sexual problems that they have, rather than judging and condemning the choices of others (who are wildly more successful at marriage than they are), Christian marriage might one day be more than a laughable sham.

Spoomonkey (A Christian, interested in why Paramour ducks so much debate)

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Paramour2_99

These stats speak for the members of this board and visitors who posted their opinions, no "science" is required to see that. The "vanilla" world has it's fair share of marital/relationship indescretions surely - but it would've been a greater surprise to read that "those in this board" (and not all swingers) either won't cheat at if it's convinient or have not been desensitized to cheating due to having been cheated on in their past.

,,,,,,Sincerely "X" Swinger
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ Every Soul Has A Watcher ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

There's no such thing as becoming desensitized to being cheated on...it's not the sex that causes the pain, it's the lie. No one becomes desensitized to being lied to or deceived.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intuition897

There's no such thing as becoming desensitized to being cheated on...it's not the sex that causes the pain, it's the lie. No one becomes desensitized to being lied to or deceived.

Actually, I would think that cheating would be more painful for swingers. Mrs Spoo and I talk about this all the time. If I were to cheat on her, I wouldn't have the excuse "it was just sex... It didn't mean anything". I can have sex with virtually anyone I want - that is the nature of swinging. She has the same freedom.

But an affair for us would be an emotional thing - it would have to be.

THAT would be devastating.

Spoomonkey

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Actually, I would think that cheating would be more painful for swingers. Mrs Spoo and I talk about this all the time. If I were to cheat on her, I wouldn't have the excuse "it was just sex... It didn't mean anything". I can have sex with virtually anyone I want - that is the nature of swinging. She has the same freedom.

But an affair for us would be an emotional thing - it would have to be.

THAT would be devastating.

Spoomonkey

Dito

This would be true for us as well. I can't even imagine cheating or being cheated on.

[JnCC]

Swinging is only one of several ways of addressing one's desire for sexual variety. Not everyone has that desire, and of those that do, not everyone chooses swinging as a way of dealing with it.

Trying to understand why someone cheats is like trying to understand why someone in a blue Chevrolet turns left. There are simply too many possible motivations...some valid, some no-so-valid, some misguided, some selfish, and some downright cruel and meant to be so. Some people are just lost, although they either don't know or won't admit it. They think that whatever they're looking for is to be found "left, down that street"

We knew one couple who divorced, allegedly because he allowed her to have other sex-partners. They were both professionals in their late 30's, married almost 8 years. She seemed to be the instigator and the more enthusiastic participant in their swinging activities. At least, I never got the idea that she was being pressured into it by her husband.

One day she came home and said she'd fallen in love with one of her clients, and that she was leaving with the kids. Her reasoning?

"Because HE loves me so much that he would never think of sharing me with anyone else"

Personally, I don't believe that swinging caused their breakup. (I think she was an intelligent, but somewhat complex personality, and that she was just "ready for some new dick" as one of our friends crudely, but succinctly, put it) I'm smart enough to know that I don't know why she cheated. Maybe when it comes to relationships, her "attention span" only runs to 7 years or so. If that's the case, her new husband, the man who "loves her so much he could never share her with anybody" had better be preparing himself for some really bad news come next summer...

Until they invent a medicine for people who are "A-D-D" when it comes to relationships, cheating is going to happen, and there will never be a shortage of excuses for justifying it.

[intuition897]

JnCC - I've read many of your posts. They seem to be well thought out and well organized posts, so maybe I'm just a bit thick-headed. I have to admit that I still don't really know what your point is. How do you feel about cheating? Because although you've stated before that you're not advocating for it, or making excuses for cheaters, many statements in your posts - or even just the general tone of them - say otherwise.

Do you feel that cheating is as natural, normal and healthy an alternative to 'extracurricular' sexual interest as swinging? I agree that no one can know why someone will cheat; I think often cheaters don't have a clue themselves as to why they decided to "go left instead of right". Frankly, it doesn't matter one bit to me what their excuse or reason was. Anytime someone throws up their hands after hurting someone else and says, "Not my fault!" it makes me cringe.

My stance is that no one can make you cheat. In every affair, it always comes down to the wire where the person in question must make a decision. Rape is not an affair; an affair is consensual...except for a person's spouse of course. So the person must decide which is more important: him/herself or his/her spouse? I would not choose to be in a relationship with someone whose sole purpose in life is "looking out for number 1". My opinion is that that is wrong. One of the defining characteristics of being human is that we can choose to rise above the "survival of the fittest" and "looking out for number 1" and "only the strong survive" bullshit. It is very sad that we, as a species, do not all share this philosophy. Or at least do not share it consistently enough (Christmas holidays it seems to be more in synch).

I feel that knowingly engaging in something that you KNOW would hurt your spouse is wrong. Just like getting behind the wheel of a car after you've had a few. It involves a decision. You chose to drink to excess, which impaired your judgment. You then chose to take the keys, tell your friends "Nah! I'm fine! I'll just drive slow.", and drive away. "My judgment was impaired" or "My friends were supposed to not let me drive." or "The dog ate my homework" sound like pretty pathetic excuses to the parents of the 5 year old kid you killed on your way home.

If this comparison seems too far off, I dunno, maybe it is. But cheating can kill little pieces of you, too. It's just that the body keeps on living. I think anyone who underestimates the destructive power they wield in a trusting relationship is sitting on a time bomb.

But these are my own opinions. I am interested JnCC (no sarcasm here!) in what your opinion is.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by intuition897

How do you feel about cheating?...Do you feel that cheating is as natural, normal and healthy an alternative to 'extracurricular' sexual interest as swinging?

Gee...if I said that after many years, and several times on both sides of the issue, I really didn't have any "feelings" about it one way or another, would you believe me? Allow me to explain...

You mentioned "natural, normal, and healthy" as if they were all one and the same. They are not. Even the words themselves can be somewhat nebulous in their meaning. For example, I have a friend who is gay. Is it natural? Yes...homosexuality occurs in a certain percentage of the population as a result of both prenatal biochemical influences and enviornmental factors. One cannot and does not "choose" to be gay. That some people will be gay is "part of the expected order of things." Is it normal? No...his sexual preference is clearly not of a "usual pattern or type," nor is it "regarded as typical for a specific group" (I.E., all homo sapiens) Is it healthy? The answer to that might depend on who's answering the question. If you're in the clergy or work in public health, you might feel one way....if you're happily, gaily "gay," self-assured, and comfortable in your own sexuality, you might answer it quite differently.

Now apply the same tests to the concepts of "philandery" and "swinging" and see what you get.

Do it again, but this time, substitute the words "living in Canada"

My point is, and has always been, that it's really futile to waste our energy having "feelings" and making arguments for or against what other people do, so long as it doesn't involve us. We don't often know why people do what they do, and we should at least be open to the possibility that in circumstances similar to theirs, we'd be doing exactly the same thing they're doing. That rule applies to swinging, cheating, living in Canada, turning left, butt-fucking, and eating at Burger King. Anything can be the "right" thing or the "wrong" thing, it just depends on the circumstances.

I feel that knowingly engaging in something that you KNOW would hurt your spouse is wrong

You could say the same thing about people who are "knowingly speeding." The argument that they'll "hurt their spouses if caught" doesn't hold water with them, because they don't think they're going to be caught. And like "knowingly speeding," it's something that people tend to do with increasing frequency right up to the point that they DO get caught. It happens, eventually. But NEVER the "first" time.

But cheating can kill little pieces of you, too. It's just that the body keeps on living.

I could not agree with you more! But have you ever noticed that most people when confronted about their cheating will tell you that "little pieces of them were already dying?"

It's a good reason not to let the "circumstances" of your relationship get to that point.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by JnCC

It's a good reason not to let the "circumstances" of your relationship get to that point.

EXACTLY.

Ok. So I guess what it comes down to then, is that I say that choosing to cheat on one's partner is wrong. Absolutely wrong, no excuses, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I'm talking about the act of cheating itself being wrong for any reason.

You are saying that there is no absolute wrong when it comes to cheating, because it's just people choosing one road over another. That they are reacting to their circumstances. It's just an individual's way of dealing with their own version of reality. Is this correct? I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything, I'm just seeking clarity.

We all have our scars. While my scars are my own business, I will say that they have left me with a lingering pain and very deeply held convictions. This is how I have chosen to react. If you prefer not to react to your experiences the same way that I have to mine, that's entirely up to you. That's the beauty of being human. Our little imperfections and flaws, our strengths and weaknesses cause us to have tendencies to follow one path or another. Our predispositions still do not give us the right to hurt others, simply because doing the right thing was "impossible" (or too difficult or uncomfortable for us to follow through on).

And the speeding thing...touche. Really can't take that analogy any further in my favour. That opens up a whole new can of worms, doesn't it?

[curiousagain]

I believe cheating is USUALLY a symptom of something else wrong in a person, a couple, or a relationship and at it's core is a violation of trust.

Although different people put it on different places on the "wrong scale" it is at it's heart a violation of trust. To me it is like taking you and your spouse's joint retirement account and blowing it on the state lottery without telling them. A cheater has taken something from them and the relationship without their permission. And in cases like that, it's never done in one fell swoop, always a little at a time until it's all gone. I also have come to believe it occurs most often when the cheating partner loses respect for the other or maybe stops caring about their feelings. Almost invariably when you hear of someone caught cheating, you can look back and see signs that the person had long since lost respect for their spouses needs, opinions, and feelings.

But, all that is just MHO.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by intuition897

So I guess what it comes down to then, is that I say that choosing to cheat on one's partner is wrong. Absolutely wrong, no excuses, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

YES! If you're YOU! The rest of the cheaters in the world may be the biggest assholes in the universe, but I'll withold judgement on 99.9% of them because I don't know the whole story.

You are saying that there is no absolute wrong when it comes to cheating, because it's just people choosing one road over another. That they are reacting to their circumstances.

No, there are good people and bad people out there. I'm just saying that most of the time, I'm not in any position to know which is which. Sure, there are some who I think I have a pretty good idea about, BUT...???

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings! Many people strive for "Super Coupledom" but never quite achieve it. It's not for me to judge how they fill in the "low spots" in their marriages. I just hope that they don't add to their troubles.

And the speeding thing...touche. Really can't take that analogy any further in my favour.

Tell me about it...my last one was $187! And I was lucky...if he'd waited another mile before lighting me up, I would have had breakfast as a guest of the county. That's assuming he could have caught me.

BTW, that was $187 in real, AMERICAN dollars, not those "diet-dollars" y'all have up there.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by JnCC

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings!

I do everyday

Spoomonkey

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by JnCC

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings!

Interesting way to put it and I know we qualify.

[beaverz]

We can’t really vote on the Poll due to the fact that we both didn't have previous relationships. We were young (she was 18, I was 20), but not virgins. Not to brag, but we are one of those Super Couples that JnCC mentioned, ok I am bragging. We both have been on the same page on every aspect of our relationship from day one. We don’t let the daily problems interfere with our relationship, from raising our kids, to religion, to finances, friends and especially the problems caused by our families (man they can be a pain in the ass ).

Our first ten years together we had many family and friends make fun of our relationship, because we both put each other first before anything else. Most of those family and friends have had affairs and are now divorced.

We both feel there is not a pussy or dick (in her case) that would be worth destroying our relationship with cheating.

We are not swingers at this time, but if or when the situation presented itself we would approach it just like everything else we have done in our relationship.

P.S. Hopefully I don’t get served papers today that would suck.

[beaverz]

Just an observation, of the family and friend’s relationships that have been affected by an affair 75% were the woman of the relationship that had the affair. I am not sure if this is a trend or just anomaly.

[curiousagain]

Originally Posted by beaverz

Just an observation, of the family and friend’s relationships that have been affected by an affair 75% were the woman of the relationship that had the affair. I am not sure if this is a trend or just anomaly.

I think it is a trend. Years ago, it seemed it was the man who was "out running around" Now it seems I mostly hear of the female doing it. Times change, attitudes change, behaviors change.