When Your Wife Is Average Weight And Size And "YOU'RE NOT"...

[LadyandLordAro]

lovely this is..lol

Well I WAS career driven and very successful..but i'll be damned if i didnt have to wear a name tag in them fancy fuckin seminars.

I WAS WEALTHY too.

I WASTED MY MONEY ON SPORTS CARS

I WAS BUFF AND SEXY

I WAS NOT HAPPY.

Now I am a wage slave...and if I want I can tell the boss to fuck himself..and go get another job. I dont have the worry of my "empire's" collapse on me....The trappings and baubles of wealth can kill you.

Any of you fat old folks want to join Lady and I at the fire pit this summer to get drunk and fuck..( a relatively inexpensive means of entertainment I must say) give a yell

I sound crass..and I am ( lol )

Some folks ..I wouldnt piss up their ass if their guts were on fire...
and it generally has nothing to do with how they look it's how they have behaved in a given situation...

Other folks..well..lets just say I am liberal with what life has given me...and man.. I love em to death...because I can respect them..big word respect..has to do with integrity and such...

aw shucks *blush* this thread is funny...I can look it over and tell you who I would hire n fire.. who I would loan money too..and whose ass I wouldnt piss up..who would make a good business associate..BUT....ya'll decide which is which

[Sydney Carton]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple

For many of us, attraction to others comprises much more than just visual stimuli. Obviously this doesn't include you.

That sort of depends upon how you are defining the word "attraction". If you are using it to mean anything that makes a woman sexualy desireable to me, then it certainly does include many other things. I was using "physical attraction" to mean specifically visual appeal, which, for me, is an important aspect of what makes a woman sexy, but certainly not the only or even the dominant one (responsiveness is criticial to me, for example). Obviously, there's an even broader set of criteria that are involved when you start talking about non-sexual interaction, foremost amoung which are kindness and intelligence. Since even casual, recreational sex necessarily involves a certain amount of non-sexual interaction, those broader criteria are important in a purely sexual context to some extent as well.

[Sydney Carton]

Originally posted by LadyandLordAro


aw shucks *blush* this thread is funny...I can look it over and tell you who I would hire n fire.. who I would loan money too..and whose ass I wouldnt piss up..who would make a good business associate..BUT....ya'll decide which is which

Oh come on, don't tease us like that. At least give us a hint. We're dying of supense.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
... that paragraph tells me you two are snobs of the highest order.[/B]

Please note that I never claimed that I was not a snob.

I personally disagree though. I have standards for sexual attraction. I'm attracted to powerful, confident women. A female attorney is a hell of a lot more attractive to me than a stripper. That's shallow? Or is "snob" a different sort of evil than "shallow"?

All that I'm doing is identifying what I find sexually attractive and looking for people who meet those standards. Everybody here does that. What's going on is that it really offends a lot of people when people discuss in public what features they look for in a sexual partner. If I'm interested in people who are physically fit then people who are overweight will call me shallow unless I keep my trap shut and never admit my preference. If I'm interested in ambitious women then I'm a snob. If I'm only interested in white women then I'm a racist.

You can't get around the simple fact that the process of searching for a sexual partner is all about making discriminating judgements based on qualities that you find important. I have spent a lot of time identifying qualities that I find important in a sexual partner, a different set of qualities that I find important in a mate, a different set of qualities that I find important in a friend, a different set of qualities that I find important in a business partner, and so on.

The only real nugget of wisdom that I'm walking away from this conversation with is that in most cases it's best to keep your mouth shut about exactly what you're looking for or else you'll offend people who don't have it. The specific criteria that you're looking for is irrelevant, because there will always be somebody out there who doesn't meet your criteria who will be offended.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by avgcpl4u
And I have noticed that everytime we go to a swingers party, people be asking my wife to play, but not myself?? And when my wife says we come as a "package deal", they say "see ya" under their breath. So we stand in the corner all night by our selves.

I personally believe this topic has strayed from the origanal point/question here. I am guilty of it also. The point here is not so much the question of HWP, but more one of how others tried to get the wife to play, solo from the husband. When the request was denied, they were left off to themselves.

We have another HWP tread going in this forum and that gets heated enough without us turning this question into another one like the HWP thred.

Lori

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by OhioCouple
We have another HWP tread going in this forum and that gets heated enough without us turning this question into another one like the HWP thred.

This is true, Ms Moderator. Some of us have been guilty of losing focus. Sorry about that.

[Chicup]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
You're absolutely wrong on a couple of points. First, if you're implying I'm overweight, wrong. I've been a bodybuilder for over 20 years, and I'm in vastly better shape than the majority of 45 year old men. But we never make mention of that in ads, we want people to be interested in us, FOR us

Second, if you take sex out of the element, you'll still witness class segregation, pretty people and otherwise. The sex only highlights it.

I can't claim the disparaging remarks made against larger people in swingers ads is the norm, but I suspect they're more common than you might think.

Dan

Dan, this might come as a shock, but I wasn't refering to you at all, it was a general post

Being interested in you for you is fine and dandy, but guess what, you are how you look as well as what you are inside too. My guess is even you draw the line at swing partners at some point for looks. Being in the medical field i've seen some horrific mutilations that are hard to look at without cringing a little on the inside, and I'm used to it.

And yes you can still see 'class segregation' as you put it, but one seems to find that sort of thing in the kiddies to 20something crowd. Oddly I don't see very much of it with the grown ups I know. Maybe you need to meet some different people.

Its been a LONG time since we have looked at adds, but I can only remember two adds out of 100's that were somewhat insulting. The reason I remember them both is because I was shocked to see them. I suppose where you draw the insulting line plays a part, but saying HWP only I wouldn't call insulting.

And also I have yet to see how telling someone who has a weight problem causing him to have a problem with swinging to lose weight and a good solution for it he may not have tried could have set off so many alarm bells in people.

Some people seem to assume that because you wouldn't swing with someone based on looks you ONLY consider looks. Well for us its looks + personality combined. If one is there and the other isn't then we don't swing with them.

[Mariposa_y_Oso]

First of all, let me reply to the original poster... We are in a situation similar to you two. Mari is a total hottie as well as being one of the sweetest and sexiest women you ever want to meet. I, on the other hand, am the classic "old jock gone to seed". Do what I do...shamelessly use her to reel them in and then pull the old bait and switch once they are too horny and revvying to go to stop themselves!! LMMFAO JK of course....

There have been several times when couples have shown interest in her and then suddenly that interest waned once she made it clear to them that we were most certainly a package deal. Luckily, no one has ever been outright rude about it. Fortunately for me, my ego is protected by MariShield. While it may sting a little at first, I console myself with the fact that this woman that was so desireable to them TURNED THEM DOWN in favor of ME! What better ego boost could there possibly be? We can certainly relate to "sitting in the corner, all by ourself" situation, especially when we first got into the lifestyle. I think that a part of our problem was that we went to the club with pre-conceived notions of what we wanted to happen instead of going with the flow. Now, if we don't get any "bites", we go off by ourselves and put on a show...before long, we usually have a crowd around us and people seem somehow eager to introduce themselves afterwards.

I'm a big boy. I've always been a big boy. I will no doubt need an extra pall bearer or two when I kick off because I will die a big boy. I've got a huge chest, wide shoulders, big arms, a muscular ass, thick legs and Fred Flinstone feet. Oh yes, I also have this belly because while I maintained the diet I had when I was 18 and working out everyday, somehow the working out part got dropped somewhere along the way. Yes, I've recently started working out again and the weight is slowly coming off, but that was a personal/health issue more than it was a "I sure hope that shallow hottie the blew us off at the club will notice me now" issue.

I have to agree with Julie on what she said about attitude. I am perfectly fine with who I am and how I look right now. All I have to do is look at my wife and see how she reacts to me to know that I can't be THAT repulsive. lmao If I can get her engine revving and her juices flowing, then I must have something going for me. Even when I was in my "prime", I was always more of a personality person. I'm no chiseled Roman god. I know this. I also know that I am pretty good at making people laugh and feel at ease and enjoy themselves. I also know I'm not too shabby between the sheets. Mr. Avgcpl4u, you have a pretty wife...you got her and have kept her. There's a reason for that. Be confident in yourself, dude! You're obviously doing something right.

I do have one question for you, and this leads to something else I'd like to bring up... Are you both not being approached at all, or are the couples that do approach you both not up to YOUR standards? There were times when we first started going to clubs when I'd been sobbing into my suds(figuratively) about how everyone was so shallow and were looking for only the "Pretty People" and I stopped and realized that I was so wrapped up in wanting to play with the Pretty People myself that I didn't even give a thought to striking up a conversation with any of the "Just Plain Folks". Hypocricy is an ugly beast, ESPECIALLY when you see it in the mirror. Not accusing you of this, Avgcpl4u, because you didn't mention it in your post. Just sharing a situation that I found myself in that may or may not be relevant.

This is my take on the whole "gene pool pollution" bullshit... Mari and I take great pains to ensure that there is absolulely NO gene pool intermingling AT ALL with ANYONE, no matter how good they may look! Hell, I'm going to let a doctor cut into my precious, ever-lovin sack and cut and tie stuff up to ensure that sort of thing can't happen on my end, even if a condom breaks. Mari is altering her body chemistry with medication in the form of the birth control pill to ensure this doesn't happen on her end. Yes, I will concede that there may be deep-seated evolutionary Darwinistic forces at work here. I like hourglass-shaped redheads with big butts, rounded breasts, full lips, and dazzling smiles. So much so that I married one. Tell me...what did Chuck have to say about that one? lmao To each his own, no one can explain attraction. It's all good, no one can blame you for being attracted to a certain physical type or attributes. Just don't try to blow quasi-scientific smoke up our asses. If you don't like women with soft curves, then avoid them. Leaves more for me.

Equating someone that carries a few extra pounds to someone with poor hygiene, VD, or an amputated stump is akin to saying that brussel sprouts, liver, and split pea soup are all the same type of food. Just because those are the three foods that I simply cannot force myself to eat does not make them the same thing or even put them in the same classification, with the exception of "foods that Mike doesn't like."

I have a bit of a bone to pick with TeamSoBe's maxim of "The rules in swinging are exactly the same as the rules in dating," as well as the way they are coming across as rather elitist. I think that on a very basic level, using the same rules for swinging as you did dating can be very beneficial. An example would be in another thread here on the boards about single men: meeting in a public place, etc. However, I for one was a typical red-blooded American male and when *I* was dating, I'd nail anything that wasn't already nailed down and encouraged me to do so. What's that? You want to meet me in a dark alley and have annonymous sex with me? We have to be careful because your husband is insanely jealous and has an extensive gun collection?Well....okay! Now, swinging as a couple, I tend to be a bit more wary about the situations that I put my wife (and myself) into. On the other extreme end of the spectrum, how is social standing any gauge of a person's real attitude/intelligence/ambition? Suppose you ran into some bimbo that slept her way to a Junior Vice President position in some company. Would she be more alluring than someone that is presently working a "wage slave" job, putting money aside to start their own business? This person could wind up being the next Bill Gates or Sam Walton, but they aren't good enough for you because they punch a time clock right now. Maybe the bimbo with the good salary and the nice car helps compensate for some sort of insecurity about your own status. Maybe the only way to reassure yourself that you are good enough is to associate only with those that you deem successful. I don't even pretend to know, I merely suggest. Even moreso than discriminating based upon physical appearance, I think that social elitism is just silly. What if you had bumped into Jennifer Lopez 10 years ago when she was still some girl from the hood and not the international star that she is now? I suppose that your noses would be turned up at her too, because she just wasn't up to your high standards. Ah well, you are most certainly entitled to your own opinions every bit as much as I...

//I'm attracted to powerful, confident women. A female attorney is a hell of a lot more attractive to me than a stripper. That's shallow? Or is "snob" a different sort of evil than "shallow"?\\

A stripper can't be a powerful, confident woman? ALL female attorneys are powerful, confident women? I have a friend that used to dance while she was in college. It was a good way to earn a boatload of cash, the hours were great, and she enjoyed it. She's now a very successful business woman. By your stated criterea, you'd play with her now, but wouldn't have played with her 5 years ago. Funny...she's still the exact same woman... The problem with painting with such a wide brush is that while it generally gets the job done quicker and easier, it tends to slop paint all over the fine details and can fuck up the entire job...

Having said all of this, I'd like to offer this olive branch. We ALL discriminate based on something or another. It doesn't neccessarily make it right or wrong, it just is. Mari doesn't really care to get together with couples that smoke. We have, on occasion - with mixed results. I'm sure there are some of you that would find this offensive in the extreme. Me personally...I don't particularly find 118 year old, bald midgets with goiters particularly attractive. I'm sure that the members of the ASFCAMSTD (American Society of Follically Challanged Aged Midget Swingers with Thyroid Disorders) would have issues with me on this subject.

I realize that this is a forum for all of us to express our beliefs and opinions and that this medium isn't particularly conducive to expressing nuances, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. I also realize that (with the expection of me, obviously! lol) people try to get their points across with as few words as possible and that sometimes this tends to come across as gruff or rude, when in reality, these same people may be the nicest people you ever meet. I think that the most important thing to take away from all this is that whatever your selection criterea is, there is no call or excuse for being rude or for tearing someone else down merely because of a lack of attraction. I'm sure that TeamSoBe circulates in a crowd that consists mostly of upwardly mobile people such as themselves and that if someone approached them that they didn't care for, they would be kind and merely explain that they didn't think they were compatible. I prefer to believe the best in everyone until it is proven otherwise. I hardly think they'd scream, "GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU LOSER!" at the top of their lungs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if I don't agree with their (or anyone else for that matter) logic, doesn't mean that I don't respect their opinion. Above all else, I think that word - respect - is the most important one when it comes to being in the lifestyle...

That's my $.43 worth...(I have more change in my pocket if you want it, though! )

Cheers!
~Mike

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by Mariposa_y_Oso
I have a bit of a bone to pick with TeamSoBe's maxim of "The rules in swinging are exactly the same as the rules in dating," as well as the way they are coming across as rather elitist.

I've been waiting and waiting for somebody to call me on the elitist thing, thank you. Try as I might though, I still can't find any notable differences in the rules of swinging versus the rules of dating. I never would have nailed the woman in the back alley. The rule that says that it's a bad idea to do that was always there, you just would have disregarded it when you were young and single but now you are more likely to do the right thing.

If you're curious, this is part of a general rule that's congealing in my head that any time some splinter group decides that they have created an environment where the old rules don't apply, they are wrong. The dotcommers (yes I was one of them) thought that the rules for the "new economy" were somehow totally different than the rules in the "old economy". Pop that bubble, big surprise, you still have to have a revenue model to keep a company in business, the rules for the new economy are unfortunately exactly the same as the rules in the old economy. There is no such thing as the "new economy" and you barely even see that term used any more. Same thing with swinging, opening up your relationship to having cheap and meaningless sex with people doesn't make you immune from the basic rules that govern cheap and meaningless sex. There are other examples in other arenas that I'm noticing, I won't waste space here on it.

Suppose you ran into some bimbo that slept her way to a Junior Vice President position in some company. Would she be more alluring than someone that is presently working a "wage slave" job, putting money aside to start their own business?

Living where I do has given me an entirely new respect for the ambition level that it takes to rise to the top of the trophy wife heap. All I'll say about that is "yes, it takes some ambition". If you find that sort of thing sexy then you might be into the trophy wife. Other people have different criteria. I don't see how admiring the twinkle in a fat girl's eyes is somehow more correct than admiring the ruthless aggression in the dominant alpha female trophy wife in your given area. Different kinks for different guys, why is one attraction more correct than the other?

Even moreso than discriminating based upon physical appearance, I think that social elitism is just silly.

When I was in college I did also. Back then I chased hippie girls who thought that mean people suck, and that all discrimination of all kinds is bad. Now I'm a yuppie, I chase women on my wavelength. Maybe when I'm 50 I'll have a completely different set of priorities, and then I'll be looking for people who think like I do. Again, rewind to my master rule. The rules in swinging are the same as the rules in dating.

A stripper can't be a powerful, confident woman? ALL female attorneys are powerful, confident women?

I have a special fondness for powerful, confident strippers who become powerful, confident, slutty attorneys. I like them so much that I married one. "Stripper" and "attorney" were cartoon examples, but you already knew that. The point is that a person who is attracted to ambition isn't shallow, ambition is a deep, intangible quality in a person. To pick on me for that you're going from opposing shallow judgements to opposing something else entirely. That effortless shift in rationalization for picking on who I'm attracted to is evidence that you're not really upset about shallow people and you're not really upset about snobs. You're upset about people who exclude.

What you're really upset about is people doing blanket eliminations of entire groups of people. That's what people do when they look for people to have sex with though, they eliminate entire groups of people right off the bat based on simple criteria. "I will never date somebody as young as my son." "I will never date a black person." "I will never date a bisexual guy." "I will never date somebody that's really out of shape." "I will never date a snob or a shallow person." You see people running around with these rules in dating and in swinging. What pisses people off is when you say it out loud.

I'm sure that TeamSoBe circulates in a crowd that consists mostly of upwardly mobile people such as themselves and that if someone approached them that they didn't care for, they would be kind and merely explain that they didn't think they were compatible.

Of course. We also don't say "we only want HWP, no overweight people" in our profiles. In our area we're actually more likely to be rejected because we're not fit or buff enough than we are to reject anybody on shallow grounds. I'm 5'8", 150 pounds of muscle, I work out every single day and I watch Fashion TV for kicks, but I'm easily the dumpiest, most pathetically dressed guy in the room at the swingers' events that we go to. I feel your pain more than you realize.

My only point in all of this was that I don't see anything wrong in excluding entire groups of people based on simple criteria that don't even have to make sense. We get passed over all the time because I'm bisexual or because I'm shorter than the six-foot fashion models that infest this damned island. Whatever, it happens, we pass over people for other reasons, eventually you meet somebody compatible and you fuck. I just don't see the point in saying that it's wrong to pass over somebody for sex for any reason.

This is one of the most sociologically-engaging threads I’ve read in a long, long time.

I’m new here, but (fairly) experienced in the lifestyle. I’m also a 40-something bodybuilder, personal trainer, and un-closeted health junkie. I have no idea if that’s relevant, but it seemed germane to me.

I think (my humble opinion) is, no matter how evolved we like to think we are, we’ll always be governed to some degree by our biology. That biology seems to dictate that we’re primarily a visually-oriented species when it comes to sexual arousal.

Having said that, I’ll be the first to proclaim that I’ve had some intense “edge of the envelope” sex with partners who were far from the cover-model end of the continuum.

PS – It’s nice to be here on the forum

[JustAskJulie]

Lori is right, we do need to return this topic to it's original TOPIC. When I get a free moment I'm going to split the thread so that the original topic can be on it's own away from the strayed posts.

[Chicup]

Perhaps the problem is that the original topic doesn't really ask for much except for company

The two solutions of course are #1 lose weight (which gets me flamed) or #2 find people who accept you as you are.

Not much else to go on there.

[ciscosv]

Hi avgcpl4u,

That is a cool thing to hear that you and your wife are a package deal. My wife and I are the same way. (Although she knows that all she has to do is ask)

I think you look at yourself too negatively and that maybe people get that vibe. I'll be honest that I am not one with hangups about weight, looks or age. There is long list of reasons why. It's just that I dont view it as being important.

Are you extremely outgoing when at these functions? Getting around and saying Hi? If not, you should give that a try. My belief is that more people are attracted to assertive people.

I wish we could get around and converse with every couple we see even when getting together is not our intention. I hate leaving people out but my wife is always dragging me to the dancefloor. And there has always been alot of couples to the particular party we go to.

Good luck!

[avgcpl4u]

Hello Everyone!

Just to set the record straight, regarding my little dilemma in question (weight & size), I am a guy that is 5'10" tall, has a 42" waist with a 48" chest, 16"arms, and yes, I have grown a little gut now thru time now in my age 40s.

When my wife and I go to swinger social parties here occasionally, I am obviously a little wider ...LOL... than most guys at the party. I am also of mixed ethinc. The wife now 5'6" and basically of average weight maybe for a few extra pounds but it doesn't show. And (I think) her looks is above average. She is also of a mix ethinc too.

Both our personalitys our of easygoing and likefulness of what we herd by others about us. So their is no problem there. I think (for myself) being a little wider than most, and being of mixed ethinic and "minority" and being a (("GUY")), has become a little hurdle for me when meeting people, especially when i'm just about the widest guy there and my wife and I are of mixed ethnic minority, and 90% of the 40 couple there at the party are of caucasian race.

I have come to conclusion (that I think), that it's not to much my problem of my weight or size, but my ethnic background of being a minority at the party that has isolated (myself and being a GUY) even more.

I think the word "minority" will become another "Thread" here!...LOL... Sorry about that julie!...LOL...

To finally say and except, ...what you look like, what your color is, your body size, how big or small your tool is, ...as long as your confidant with who you are and what you look like, then we will just have to sit back and wait for the right fish to bite!!!....LOL... I could say though, I do have the right bate!!!...LOL...

Just want to say, thanks everyone for all your replies regarding my question whether the replys were negative and or positive.
Everyone is intitled to their own opinion, and I think thats cool!!!

Regards,

Avgcpl4u

[Alura]

Originally posted by Alura
Now I'm concentrating on my gut and exercising to reduce that. I can fit into size tens beautifully! My goal for that was the end of January so I'm ahead. I can't remember ever wearing size eights but it must have been early in high school! I'm 5' 9". If I manage to get into eights by June, I'll look as good out of my clothes as I do in them!

Mrs. Alura

My wife posted the above on January 3rd. She just ordered some clothes in size eight! Her taste has changed since last May; she seems to like clothes that show off her figure. Imagine that!

Mr. Alura