When Your Wife Is Average Weight And Size And "YOU'RE NOT"...

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by FTnPV
WOW! The weight issue really seems to strike a nerve on people !

A few words of wit and wisdom from PV here.

We all have a choice in this lifestyle. We can elect to have sex with "fat or overweight" people if we like or we can hold out for someone more "fit and trim". It's our choice!

We can choose to be overweigh or we can make a paradigm shift in our life and thin ourselves down . It's a choice we have. It's not easy, that's the problem here. It takes a lifestyle change. You have to go without some of the things you really like. You have to stop taking the easy way out ie fast food. We have a choice here.

I made the decision to start eating healthy and working out not because we were in this lifestyle. I made it for my kids. I want to be here as long as I can to enjoy them , to see them grow into adults and parents. The big plus here is that now I'm 35 pounds less in weight and look much better. We are attracting much nicer "looking" people. I don't have a prejudice aginst folks who are a little overweight, but people that are in shape are a definite plus.

We all have a right to choose how we live and look and select other people for fun.

Flame on!!

No flaming here, FTnPV. You're correct in your assertion that almost everyone has sexual preferences, and that includes body types. No one's arguing against that.

Would you also agree that for most people, swinging involves casual, recreational sex with others, with no emotional strings attached? Are we still in agreement here?

If so, why would you limit yourselves to only those for whom you have a specific "preference"? Why immediately exclude those who don't fall within your desired elite group? Is it exclusively because of preference, or is there another factor at play? Perhaps a concentrated effort not to stray from what you perceive to be your particular social class, FTnPV? Time for some honest self evaluation.

I'll say this as well -- I'd be willing to bet the farm that the great majority of those pretty socialites who are so quick to disparage those heavier people within the lifestyle would't be caught dead with them under ANY circumstances, including platonic friendships. Birds of a feather flock.........

Dan

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
Perhaps a concentrated effort not to stray from what you perceive to be your particular social class?

That's actually a factor for us, whether it's considered a good thing or not. Career ambition and physical fitness are both things that we consider important in our lives and that we look for in potential sex flings, both are just sexy. We found each other using those and other criteria and we don't see any reason to warp our preferences in the interest of some kind of swinger ideology.

Again, this goes back to my First Rule of Swinging, "The rules in swinging are exactly the same as the rules in dating." If I wouldn't have been interested in a chubby girl who wears a name tag to work when I was single then I don't see why I should be interested in the same girl now that I'm a married swinger.

[Sydney Carton]

Originally posted by FTnPV

I made the decision to start eating healthy and working out not because we were in this lifestyle. I made it for my kids. I want to be here as long as I can to enjoy them , to see them grow into adults and parents. The big plus here is that now I'm 35 pounds less in weight and look much better.

While losing weight will generally improve both your health and your appearence, it's important to note that what you need for one is much less than what you typically need for the other. Many obesity-related health problems will resolve with the loss of as little as 10% of starting body weight, which is usually far, far less than what is needed to be cosmetically "thin" (particularly for women). There really is a continuum of results, with health benefits at one end, looking reasonabley good in the middle, and being truly hot at the other. Some people who find losing enough weight to improve their health worthwhile might not choose to expend the much, much greater effort needed maximize their attractiveness. So, just because someone doesn't look good to you doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care about seeing their kids grow up.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by FTnPV
I made the decision to start eating healthy and working out not because we were in this lifestyle. I made it for my kids. I want to be here as long as I can to enjoy them , to see them grow into adults and parents. The big plus here is that now I'm 35 pounds less in weight and look much better. We are attracting much nicer "looking" people. I don't have a prejudice aginst folks who are a little overweight, but people that are in shape are a definite plus.

I would like for you to go back and take a look at one of my prior posts. It is not always a matter of what you eat or how much exercise you do. No one is aruguing the matter of preference but the pre-decided prejudice that occurs simply by looking at numbers and pictures.

Congratulations on your weight loss and I mean that sincerely. If you feel, look and are considered healthier then that is all that matters.

The one statement you made that really bothers me is the same thing I have seen way to many times. This is where the discrepancy lies. You state that you are now attracting nicer looking couples. Do you mean you weren't attracting them before? Why wouldn't you be attracting them before? We have not had a problem attracting 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 somethings who were in my opinon model material for their age groups. Somehow many were able to over look our flaws, our age and see beyond the physical aspects. Perhaps it is because they liked us as a person. I don't really know and I never thought to ask as it didn't seem important nor does it to this day.

I guess what I need to say here is that I have had my share of in shape physically fit, my ideal image of what the absolute perfect sexual partner would be during my single years and I have been sorely disappointed. Not by all, but by the majority. They were more concerned with their hair turning gray and their physical appearance than they were taking their dog out to relieve itself or whether or not their Mom needed a lift to the hairdresser. Which says a lot about how shallow I was during my single years as I chose to date them specifically.

I'll say it again, it is shallow when one only looks at the package and doesn't bother to look at the contents.

Lori

[Sydney Carton]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
No flaming here, FTnPV. You're correct in your assertion that almost everyone has sexual preferences, and that includes body types. No one's arguing against that.

Would you also agree that for most people, swinging involves casual, recreational sex with others, with no emotional strings attached? Are we still in agreement here?

If so, why would you limit yourselves to only those for whom you have a specific "preference"?

Perhaps because you know that you will enjoy casual, recreational sex a lot more with someone whom you find really attractive, as opposed to someone that you don't? Resources are finite, even sexual ones (much more true for men than for women, of course). What you spend in one place you won't have available for another.

I'll say this as well -- I'd be willing to bet the farm that the great majority of those pretty socialites who are so quick to disparage those heavier people within the lifestyle would't be caught dead with them under ANY circumstances, including platonic friendships.

If that is the case, then it reflects pretty poorly on the "pretty socialites" and not the heavier people.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
That's actually a factor for us, whether it's considered a good thing or not. Career ambition and physical fitness are both things that we consider important in our lives and that we look for in potential sex flings, both are just sexy.

Perhaps I'm missing something here. Career ambition is sexy? Not to sound flippant, but are board meetings and power lunches sensual? Sorry, I just don't get that one.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Sydney Carton
Perhaps because you know that you will enjoy casual, recreational sex a lot more with someone whom you find really attractive, as opposed to someone that you don't? Resources are finite, even sexual ones (much more true for men than for women, of course). What you spend in one place you won't have available for another.

Perhaps you would, but again, you'd choose to swing exclusively with those prefered types, without taking into consideration there may be other partners out there who appeal to you in ways that would become obvious only after meeting in person? Sounds as if you may be limiting your potential for enjoyment.


If that is the case, then it reflects pretty poorly on the "pretty socialites" and not the heavier people.

On that, we surely agree.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by OhioCouple


I'll say it again, it is shallow when one only looks at the package and doesn't bother to look at the contents.

Lori

Can't be said any better than that.
Dan

[Chicup]

These threads always turn into something they are not.

Are there people out there who you are friends with, enjoy the company of, and like to be around but have no sexual attraction to them and would never want to have sex with them? (relatives not included)

For my wife and I, that’s where fat falls. My best friend has a great personality and a very high IQ but is fat. My wife would never be interested in him sexually.

Does that make her a horrible hateful person? This guy was best man at my wedding, and has known me since I was 6.

I think what some of you are talking about are people who 'ignore' you at a swing club because you are fat and taking it as a personal affront.

But think of it from their point of view, they are at a swing club, not a normal social situation. They are looking for friends, good times, and SEX. Someone who you find unattractive approaches you, seems like a really nice fellow, can tell good jokes, I hear he volunteers at a soup kitchen too. You also wouldn't be caught dead with him in bed. You assume he is at the club for the same reasons you are. You are not a jerk at heart, but you don't want to lead him on, you don't want to say 'no thank you' or 'you are not my type' or whatever. You are uncomfortable, afraid of leading him on, so instead you make yourself scarce. Is this a polite way of handling it? No, but it’s a cowards way out and it feels better then telling the truth. People find it hard to say 'no thanks' on internet adds, how hard do you think it is for people, esp newbie’s, at a club face to face?

If you say 'No way man, I don't have sex with fat asses like you!' then yes you are jerk, but I rather doubt thats the norm.

So sure the 'pretty' people will hang out together more, and you might feel left out, but take out the sex element and I bet you wouldn't feel nearly as left out.

[Sydney Carton]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple

Perhaps you would, but again, you'd choose to swing exclusively with those prefered types, without taking into consideration there may be other partners out there who appeal to you in ways that would become obvious only after meeting in person? Sounds as if you may be limiting your potential for enjoyment.

Speaking for myself, I know from experience that there is a certain minimum level of physical attraction I need to feel for someone in order for a sexual experience with them to be highly enjoyable. I don't consider this level to be extraordinarily high, and there are certainly other things that are important to me as well, but nevertheless the minimum does exist. If I already know that my attraction for someone doesn't rise to that level, due to weight or any other reason, then I already know that what I might be missing out on really isn't going to be all that good. If I meet them in person, it may very well turn out that they have all of the other things that I look for in spades, but if my attraction for them is below the threshold, then sex with them will be at best mediocre. I would rather wait and try to find someone with whom it will be really good, which will be far more fair to everybody in the long run.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
Career ambition is sexy? Not to sound flippant, but are board meetings and power lunches sensual?

For us, yes. Some people are attracted to feet, I personally think that's strange. I'm attracted to headstrong, intelligent, capable women. You might think that's strange, but that's me. My wife, like many other women, is attracted to independently wealthy entrepeneurs who drive fast sports cars. We think that people who are ambitious enough to at least make a good attempt at clawing their way to the top of the heap are sexy. We both tend to overlook people who are perfectly happy working as wage slaves for their entire lives. That sort of apathy toward where a person's life is going is just not inspiring and we're not into people like that. It's the same sort of apathy toward personal fitness that we find unattractive in people who would rather stop at the McDonald's drive-through than at the gym on the way home from work.

Everybody has certain aspects in other people that they find attractive. It is not shallow to identify those aspects and increase the chances of a successful encounter by eliminating prospects that don't meet criteria that you find important. Most of you would not climb into bed with a girl that smells really bad and has raging athlete's foot. You're shallow, she might be great girl. You don't care though, you're shallow, you're only interested in identifying qualities in her that might increase or decrease your chances of enjoying fucking her. So shallow, so wrong...

Please don't forget that we're talking about sex here. I don't have an obligation to be an equal opportunity employer when I'm looking for somebody that I'm interested in screwing. I get to decide for myself what qualities are important to me when I'm looking for somebody to have sex with.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Chicup
These threads always turn into something they are not.

Are there people out there who you are friends with, enjoy the company of, and like to be around but have no sexual attraction to them and would never want to have sex with them? (relatives not included)

For my wife and I, that’s where fat falls. My best friend has a great personality and a very high IQ but is fat. My wife would never be interested in him sexually.

Does that make her a horrible hateful person? This guy was best man at my wedding, and has known me since I was 6.

I think what some of you are talking about are people who 'ignore' you at a swing club because you are fat and taking it as a personal affront.

But think of it from their point of view, they are at a swing club, not a normal social situation. They are looking for friends, good times, and SEX. Someone who you find unattractive approaches you, seems like a really nice fellow, can tell good jokes, I hear he volunteers at a soup kitchen too. You also wouldn't be caught dead with him in bed. You assume he is at the club for the same reasons you are. You are not a jerk at heart, but you don't want to lead him on, you don't want to say 'no thank you' or 'you are not my type' or whatever. You are uncomfortable, afraid of leading him on, so instead you make yourself scarce. Is this a polite way of handling it? No, but it’s a cowards way out and it feels better then telling the truth. People find it hard to say 'no thanks' on internet adds, how hard do you think it is for people, esp newbie’s, at a club face to face?

If you say 'No way man, I don't have sex with fat asses like you!' then yes you are jerk, but I rather doubt thats the norm.

So sure the 'pretty' people will hang out together more, and you might feel left out, but take out the sex element and I bet you wouldn't feel nearly as left out.

You're absolutely wrong on a couple of points. First, if you're implying I'm overweight, wrong. I've been a bodybuilder for over 20 years, and I'm in vastly better shape than the majority of 45 year old men. But we never make mention of that in ads, we want people to be interested in us, FOR us

Second, if you take sex out of the element, you'll still witness class segregation, pretty people and otherwise. The sex only highlights it.

I can't claim the disparaging remarks made against larger people in swingers ads is the norm, but I suspect they're more common than you might think.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Sydney Carton
Speaking for myself, I know from experience that there is a certain minimum level of physical attraction I need to feel for someone in order for a sexual experience with them to be highly enjoyable. I don't consider this level to be extraordinarily high, and there are certainly other things that are important to me as well, but nevertheless the minimum does exist. If I already know that my attraction for someone doesn't rise to that level, due to weight or any other reason, then I already know that what I might be missing out on really isn't going to be all that good. If I meet them in person, it may very well turn out that they have all of the other things that I look for in spades, but if my attraction for them is below the threshold, then sex with them will be at best mediocre. I would rather wait and try to find someone with whom it will be really good, which will be far more fair to everybody in the long run.

For many of us, attraction to others comprises much more than just visual stimuli. Obviously this doesn't include you. Not a judgement, just a conclusion based on your post.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TeamSoBe
We think that people who are ambitious enough to at least make a good attempt at clawing their way to the top of the heap are sexy. We both tend to overlook people who are perfectly happy working as wage slaves for their entire lives. That sort of apathy toward where a person's life is going is just not inspiring and we're not into people like that.

Not everyone's cut out to be a member of the fortune 500 club. I'm sorry to say this, but that paragraph tells me you two are snobs of the highest order. You'd describe me as a wage slave I'm sure, but I can hold my head high and be proud of who I am and what I've accomplished in this life so far. Apathy? Pity is more like it.

My wife is a business owner, but of a home day care. Would you hold her in higher esteem than myself, or is she still a slovenly member of the great unwashed? Good God, the pretentiousness of that post!

Most of you would not climb into bed with a girl that smells really bad and has raging athlete's foot. You're shallow, she might be great girl.

Please don't insult my intelligence by comparing excess weight with personal filth and disease.

Dan

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
Most of you would not climb into bed with a girl that smells really bad and has raging athlete's foot. You're shallow, she might be great girl. You don't care though, you're shallow, you're only interested in identifying qualities in her that might increase or decrease your chances of enjoying fucking her. So shallow, so wrong...

Please don't forget that we're talking about sex here. th.

No, we would not climb into bed with an indvidual that was unclean, had a known STD (or gave us the reason to think they might), athletes foot , crabs or a rap sheet longer than the palm of their hand, just to name a few. That though is more of a health and risk danger, therefore with the *contents* of the package taken into consideration that would not be something we would involve ourselves in, no matter what the wrapping looked like. I don't find that shallow, I find that being cautious for our well being.

Yes we are talking about sex here in addition to the fact that some of us prefer to have something more to say to each other than "OOH Baby that was good, Let's do it again." Not that we don't want to hear that, again and again..

Lori