When Your Wife Is Average Weight And Size And "YOU'RE NOT"...

[Regularguy]

I am sorry, but I have to agree with Chicup. There is this politically correct undercurrent where one needs to excuse one's self from their own behavior, and it is always someone else's fault.

If I were fat, I would not go around weeping and gnashing my teeth about how people don't accept me for who I am when it comes to physical attraction. Instead, I would look in the mirror, and decide if there was truth to what they say. If there was, then intellectually I would have to agree with them, then decide whether I want to do something about it, or accept it and accept the fact that I would be fat and people would find me less attractive and take personal responsibility for such.

Instead some want to go around blaming others for a persons self decision to not keep in shape and the subsequent rejection that may come with it. What do you expect?! What if you came from a culture that refused to bathe....would you go around blaming Americans for their "intolerance" of people who reek?

Selecting sex partners is part of pair bonding behavior where a sublte undercurrent of natural selection is usually at work, and most mammals don't want to pollute their gene pool by pair bonding with the weakest mate they can find.

If a person is rejected because of a physical trait, rather than complaining about evolutionary biology and arguing against Darwin and filing a ADA discrimination suit with Gloria Alred as your attorney, why not either do something about it and quit whining, or accept it?

In the case of the original poster, I would whole heartedly agree that people must be extremely discreet if they choose not to play with both. I would think that if they came as a pair, they would play as a pair, and as a gentleman, I would assume no less. I would hope other thinking couples would come to the same conclusion. Any couple who would approach them both only interested in the women and they let that be known should be drawn and quarted for being so rude. Just because some reject others based upon appearance or some other traits doens't mean that rude behavior is to be tolerated. On the other hand, maybe some people are congenitally rude and have no control over it, so they should enjoy Americans with Disabilites Act protection for their mental and social handicap, and we shouldn't discriminate agains them....lol

I agree with the sentiment that these diets are all bogus. Food selection must be healthy and a one's diet must be sustainable. If you can't live with it for years and year, you won' t be able to live with it for months. Why not cut out the burders, or reduce them? Why not reduce the fried greasey foods? Why not reduce your portions? Why not increase your exercise. Being obese is a peculiarly American trait. Sumo wrestlers notwithstanding, why do indigenous Japanese people seem to be so much slimmer? Why are Europeans so much slimmer?

W'e're a nation of junk food eaters who get fat off of eating crap, then when we get fat from it, instead of accepting personal responsibility, we sue the purveyors of such junk food for not warning us their fast food was fattening.

To whomever wrote "what a load of PC horseshit" I have to tell you I got the biggest kick out of that. While not the most tactful reply, it was funnier than $@&!

[Flori_DAMAN]

Great post RegularGuy!

There is a lot of FOOD for thought there. Do you think some of our problem is the rather recent obsession with super thinness?

It seems so contradictory that North America has such a focus on thin and yet we are generally overweight. Of course a century ago we were laboring in fields and factory's much more than today.

I read somewhere that the Japanese are rapidly gaining weight and smoking more as of recently also.

John.

[BradAndJanet]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
...If someone goes to a party already feeling unattractive they are going to put off that vibe and be less likely to be approached/accepted. The same thing can even happen to a beautiful woman who happens to be wearing a dress she doesn't feel comfortable in. She feels comfortable, and therefore looks uncomfortable and less attractive because of it. Wheras a big guy can go in with a great attitude and just be friendly/flirty with the women around him and somehow those women don't notice those extra pounds he may be carrying (same thing applies to a heavy woman for that matter).
...

I think you've hit on something that is very important. I don't think anyone likes being around someone who isn't comfortable with themselves; they're commonly trying too hard or are too withdrawn, and as you say, don't appear as attractive as they could be. To be successful in social situations, it helps to accept what you are and just be yourself.

-B

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Regularguy


Selecting sex partners is part of pair bonding behavior where a sublte undercurrent of natural selection is usually at work, and most mammals don't want to pollute their gene pool by pair bonding with the weakest mate they can find.

This is just the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm referring to. You think overweight swingers are threatening your gene pool???

If you want to go on a rant about how unhealthy and out of shape the population at large is, fine, but you're setting yourself up to look like a buffoon with the gene pool remark. What's your idea of a clean gene pool -- a race of blue eyed, blond haired Adonis-cloned Aryians? Perhaps we should forgo swinging altogether. We certainly wouldn't want my wife's weight to soil anyone's chromosomes.

Christ, just when you think you've heard it all..........

Dan (shaking head)

[Saml31@hotmail]

My wife and I are in perfect shape and we find most if not all swingers try to stay in shape so as to be attractive. We don't find fatties and beer bellies.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Saml31@hotmail.
My wife and I are in perfect shape and we find most if not all swingers try to stay in shape so as to be attractive. We don't find fatties and beer bellies.

And with that last sentence, you've recklessly exposed your inbred ignorance. Have fun fucking the plastic.

Dan

[Regularguy]

Dan,

If you notice in my posts, I go to great lengths to be civil to people here. I strive to oppose ideas, but I try to not direct it personally, rather just towardds ideas....providing I have a strongly different opinion of course. I try to stay away from personal attacks as I can get my point across withotu resorting to such, plus if I made personal attacks I doubt people would find my personality attractive. I know this thread is a hot button for you, but I would be impressed if you challenged just my ideas.

Now since you asked some questions, I will assume you wish a response.

"This is just the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm referring to. You think overweight swingers are threatening your gene pool???"

I would not court or have sex with a person who does not meet my ideas of personal hygiene, fitness and health. I also find regular women attractive who do not fit the so called Barbie ideal. I am no Adonis, and although I have been described repeatedly as attractive with a really nice smile, I think the reality is I am just average in looks. I was recently told that is what makes me attractive, I don't act or think I am attractive, so go figure. I do spend a reasonable amount of time in the gym, I pay SIGNIFICANT attention to personal hygiene, grooming and I do not eat junk food. I do certain hardcore aerobic hobbies for enjoyment and the added benefit of making my appearance as attractive as I reasonably can. I like my partners to take reasonable measure sot be healthy,reasonably fit, and quite clean and hygienic since I LOVE giving oral sex. I do not expect physicial perfection as I am certainly not remotely close to it so I bat in my league.

Genetic refinement is not arrogance Dan, it is the primary tool that ensures the survival of a species. Primates don't go around looking for unhealthy partners for sex. Physical appearance is a rapid albeit fallible indicator of general health and thus genetic potential. No woman goes around bragging she is marrying a garbage man instead of a doctor or lawyer, and no guy brags he is is going to marry a 300lb woman with with periodontis. You seem to be getting highly agitated that genetic refinement takes place at all. I am not sure why it comes as a surprise to you. I have amused many a female friend by pointing out a really fat hairy guy, and ask my female friends if they fantasize about having his fat, hairy sweaty belly slaing at their midsection as he has intercourse with them, or if they desire to suck on a fat guys dick after pushing the pubic fat pad and hair out of the way. Dan, when these female get grossed out, are they being arrogant because they want to have sex with only attractive guys?

"If you want to go on a rant about how unhealthy and out of shape the population at large is, fine, but you're setting yourself up to look like a buffoon with the gene pool remark."

Dan, human anthropology and natural selection is a fascinating subject, not buffoonery. Ask the giraffes if they would prefer shorter necks to reach food if you think natural selection is buffoonery.

"What's your idea of a clean gene pool -- a race of blue eyed, blond haired Adonis-cloned Aryians?"

First of all "Aryan" is not a "race" or racial term, it is a term used to describe somone who speaks an Indo-European language just as "Mandingo" does not mean negroid, it means someone who speaks a West African dialect. Your attempt to equate natural selection with some sort of kafka-esque Mengele scheme is a curious means of using straw arguments instead of challenging ideas.

"Perhaps we should forgo swinging altogether. We certainly wouldn't want my wife's weight to soil anyone's chromosomes. "

Whatever standards you have, or if you have none at all, that is your free choice, but other people are entitled to have their standards on whether they will engage in sexual pleasure with the opposite sex, with the same sex, with fat people, with skinny people, with people only of their own race, with people only of other races, or whatever they choose.

Were you aware that studies have repeatedly shown that 6 month old infants are already genetically imprinted to be more attracted to a person who is attractive than not? These studies took infants and place people's faces in fron tof them who were considered attractive and others considered unattractive. The infants stared far longer and their attention was held longer when looking at the attractive people. Were the infants foot soldiers of the evil heterocentric patriarchy? Were they card carrying Aryan Hitler-Youth? No, they followed evolutionary biology.

Nobody can genuinely claim 6 month old infants are under some Svengali like influence. That is one of the beauties of science, it doesn't let politics, feelings or morality dilute it. It is hard, cold and cruel, but purely and perfectly so.

[Chicup]

" have never seen a diet that consistently works for the majority of people that use it and often they end up feeling guilty because they resorted to there old "lazy" ways. It appears that sooner or later most diets end up causing more rapid weight gain although there are certainly many exceptions as with anything. "

Atkins diet works for anyone, it's just simple physiology. Most women I know who have tried it can't stick to it, and tell me they can't give up all carbohydrates, most men I know who tried it have done much better sticking to it. Like all long term weight loss this obviously requires a lifestyle change after you lose the weight, something most people including myself don't do .



"Would the fact that your diet and such didn't change possibly point to other factors, such as hereditary, or metabolic? Why did you suddenly gain weight?"

Gee ya think? Of course it was a metabolic change, my diet and exercise levels didn't adapt, and I was unaware of the change until I got on the scale and saw +18 lbs after only 3 months. I still looked good though and it was another year before I could see the extra weight.

"I notice that you call youself overweight but in this context the word "fat" seemed applicable.

What about the people that aren't in the "most" category? "

Because I'm not fat, but I am overweight. Its a question of semantics of course, but I don't look fat so I go by that. Most people guess my weight to be about 20-30 pounds lighter then I am. Which ironically is the 20-30 lbs I plan to lose in the next two months.

I said 'most' to be politically correct in some level. EVERYONE can lose weight period. For some people losing weight may not be healthy due to underlying medical conditions and the most applies there.

"And considering that your recent weight gain is due to self-proclaimed laziness and overindulgence in eating, why do you choose the option of being overweight?

Perhaps its not laziness or self indulgence at all. The theory that I subscribe to is that sooner or later the body will demand what its genetic predisposition tells it to demand. While this is debatable Chiccup certainly backs this theory up with his own disclosures. He suddenly gained weight for no reason; dieted, then gained it back, just like millions of overweight people. "

Which part of 'lazy' wasn't clear? Two years ago I dieted for a few months, lost 25lbs or so, and went back to my old ways. Over the last 2 years I've slowly gained it all back. I choose the option of being overweight because losing the weight and following a diet didn't seem worth the effort it would take, and I had more pressing things to deal with. Now its time again.

Genetics have a LOT to do with it, but so what? Maybe people are also genetically programmed to eat healthy and go to health clubs every day (and yes I'm being sarcastic). I know I COULD be thin/in shape but like millions of Americans I have other things I like to do more, normally. Unlike some of those millions of Americans I blame myself for it and don't accept it as a pre-programmed genetic fact. Motivation to lose weight for me (and my wife) normally requires a goal though beyond just 'being healthy' and that goal might be looking good in a bikini for our next vacation (for the wife of course, I'll always look bad in a bikini I’m sure ) or looking good for attracting swinging partners. Since we aren’t looking for new swinging partners and have no vacation plans anytime soon motivation is a bit lacking.


"Isn't that what flamers do? They use button pushing statements such as "Quit feeling sorry for yourself and lose the weight."
and insulting innuendos to bait someone to respond in a predictable way. While it may be great entertainment for the flamer I don't believe it adds substance to an otherwise interesting topic. "

No not at all, I'm sorry but I knew it would get this reaction because people who have strong dogmatic opinions tend to react badly to people who don't agree with them. If there is ONE issue in swinging where people have strong opinions its the 'fat vrs thin' issue. Heaven forbid I mention losing weight to the original poster, I violated some secret rule of the hefty (and yes THAT was a flame).()()

Being fat is a CHOISE, period. For some people its a lot easier to be thin, for many reasons, but everyone can be thin if they work on it. And perhaps thin isn't the right word, but 'average', you don't have to be at 2% body fat, but if you can't see your belt when you suck in, you can surely do better.

[Chicup]

Actually Regularguy hit the nail on the head so to speak. Having spent the last 14 or so years studying various aspects of biology on the paper chase, you get a feel for evolution and sexual selection and how it affects humans in the same way it affects other animals.

Every wonder why some women seem attracted to the guy from outside the 'group' who's a bit different? Why cheating (and swinging) is prevalent in society despite the great risks that can be involved if you are caught?

Its the same for almost every sexual animal out there or do you really think that some birds truly mate for life

Just because person doesn't think 'I will not mate with that person for they have an unhealthy appearance and may produce inferior offspring.' Doesn't mean that’s not the underlying reason for the lack of attraction.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Regularguy
Dan,

If you notice in my posts, I go to great lengths to be civil to people here. I strive to oppose ideas, but I try to not direct it personally, rather just towardds ideas....providing I have a strongly different opinion of course. I try to stay away from personal attacks as I can get my point across withotu resorting to such, plus if I made personal attacks I doubt people would find my personality attractive. I know this thread is a hot button for you, but I would be impressed if you challenged just my ideas.

Now since you asked some questions, I will assume you wish a response.

"This is just the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm referring to. You think overweight swingers are threatening your gene pool???"

I would not court or have sex with a person who does not meet my ideas of personal hygiene, fitness and health. I also find regular women attractive who do not fit the so called Barbie ideal. I am no Adonis, and although I have been described repeatedly as attractive with a really nice smile, I think the reality is I am just average in looks. I was recently told that is what makes me attractive, I don't act or think I am attractive, so go figure. I do spend a reasonable amount of time in the gym, I pay SIGNIFICANT attention to personal hygiene, grooming and I do not eat junk food. I do certain hardcore aerobic hobbies for enjoyment and the added benefit of making my appearance as attractive as I reasonably can. I like my partners to take reasonable measure sot be healthy,reasonably fit, and quite clean and hygienic since I LOVE giving oral sex. I do not expect physicial perfection as I am certainly not remotely close to it so I bat in my league.

Genetic refinement is not arrogance Dan, it is the primary tool that ensures the survival of a species. Primates don't go around looking for unhealthy partners for sex. Physical appearance is a rapid albeit fallible indicator of general health and thus genetic potential. No woman goes around bragging she is marrying a garbage man instead of a doctor or lawyer, and no guy brags he is is going to marry a 300lb woman with with periodontis. You seem to be getting highly agitated that genetic refinement takes place at all. I am not sure why it comes as a surprise to you. I have amused many a female friend by pointing out a really fat hairy guy, and ask my female friends if they fantasize about having his fat, hairy sweaty belly slaing at their midsection as he has intercourse with them, or if they desire to suck on a fat guys dick after pushing the pubic fat pad and hair out of the way. Dan, when these female get grossed out, are they being arrogant because they want to have sex with only attractive guys?

"If you want to go on a rant about how unhealthy and out of shape the population at large is, fine, but you're setting yourself up to look like a buffoon with the gene pool remark."

Dan, human anthropology and natural selection is a fascinating subject, not buffoonery. Ask the giraffes if they would prefer shorter necks to reach food if you think natural selection is buffoonery.

"What's your idea of a clean gene pool -- a race of blue eyed, blond haired Adonis-cloned Aryians?"

First of all "Aryan" is not a "race" or racial term, it is a term used to describe somone who speaks an Indo-European language just as "Mandingo" does not mean negroid, it means someone who speaks a West African dialect. Your attempt to equate natural selection with some sort of kafka-esque Mengele scheme is a curious means of using straw arguments instead of challenging ideas.

"Perhaps we should forgo swinging altogether. We certainly wouldn't want my wife's weight to soil anyone's chromosomes. "

Whatever standards you have, or if you have none at all, that is your free choice, but other people are entitled to have their standards on whether they will engage in sexual pleasure with the opposite sex, with the same sex, with fat people, with skinny people, with people only of their own race, with people only of other races, or whatever they choose.

Were you aware that studies have repeatedly shown that 6 month old infants are already genetically imprinted to be more attracted to a person who is attractive than not? These studies took infants and place people's faces in fron tof them who were considered attractive and others considered unattractive. The infants stared far longer and their attention was held longer when looking at the attractive people. Were the infants foot soldiers of the evil heterocentric patriarchy? Were they card carrying Aryan Hitler-Youth? No, they followed evolutionary biology.

Nobody can genuinely claim 6 month old infants are under some Svengali like influence. That is one of the beauties of science, it doesn't let politics, feelings or morality dilute it. It is hard, cold and cruel, but purely and perfectly so.

FIrst of all, you repeatedly say fit and clean as though they're a one syllable word. In case you don't get the metaphor, you seem to be implying one cannot be clean without being fit. If I'm mistaken, when exactly did this thread address personal cleanliness? That was never the issue.

Second, I'm very aware what Aryan means. It was an apparently too-well disguised swipe at what seems to be your ideals of what the human race should look like. Wasn't there an Austrian several decades ago who also harbored dreams of purified gene pools? It's still a ludicrous argument to make on the subject of swinging. This isn't about procreation, Regular, but recreational sex. Remember?

Third, I'm really mystified at your use of examples of beautiful ladies marrying garbagemen. How many swingers are in this looking to get married? Do you swing to find that perfect, life-long mate? We don't, we've already found ours.

Hmmm. 6 month old infants genetically imprinted to weed out humanity's homeliest and weakest links. Where'd you hear that one, Art Bell?

This conversation is going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Regularguy
I agree with the sentiment that these diets are all bogus. Food selection must be healthy and a one's diet must be sustainable. If you can't live with it for years and year, you won' t be able to live with it for months. Why not cut out the burders, or reduce them? Why not reduce the fried greasey foods? Why not reduce your portions? Why not increase your exercise. Being obese is a peculiarly American trait.

For the most part of your post I agreed with you. But this, I do not. Again, I will use myself for an example.

All of my life, the only times I have been what I consider under weight for myself, I have been under a tremendous amount of stress. At those times, those that cared about me were looking to buy my headstone and talking with the undertaker.

I mostly eat nothing but vegetables, rarely eat anything fried and about once a year I will splurge and have a Bavarian Cream Donut, (The old fashioned ones). I don't like chocolate, never have, I have a regular Coke every morning for my caffeine. Admittedly I do have a weakness for baked potatos, but try not to over induldge. I rarely eat bread products of any kind and abhor sandwiches. (No processed meats for me.) The majority of my meals are salads, with a vineagarette dressing. I walk a minimum of 4 miles a day with a 94 pound dog that can create havoc from time to time depending upon her excitement. I spend 20 minutes every day on my exercise bicycle.

Now, why would I weigh in at a weight that is not considered of the AMA standards? The reasons here would be that I am pre-disposed by the laws of nature that I will have a body that will never be acceptable by AMA standards. While I agree that many Americans do over indulge in foods they shouldn't, there are many that regardless of what they do have no control over their body weight.

I think the issue here is not so much as what is HWP, but more of one how people judge others based on a profile or ad alone, sight unseen. When you receive unsolicted notes/messages from someone, that in my eyes is really tacky and when you are cast off as being not in the right weight range or you specify that is what you are looking for, that is just as tacky. I'll say it again...It is SHALLOW, and I won't back down from that.

Now that I think about it, it is probably a pretty good indicitaion of just the type of people we want to scroll on by when we read that in their ads/profiles.

Next please.....


Lori

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple


Christ, just when you think you've heard it all..........

No Dan, this is just scratching the surface of the things that we have borne witness to.

Lori

[Regularguy]

I reread some of my posts, primarily because I like to read things from people I admire and agree with.....just kidding

I used the term about people 'whining". Although so far nobody has seemed to think this was direced at anyone, I wanted to make clear that I was speaking about excuse users in general. I certainly wouldn't characterize the original poster as whining, as he correctly pointed out some rude behavior, but generically I prefer not to use such terms directed at present company.

Dan,

In debate circls there is a tactic called the straw argument. You try to discret an idea by associating it with some person or thing that has been widely criticized. The Bell Curve is one of them. Rather then asking if I can find the study that demonstrated infants attention spans held longer when looking at attrative people, instead you asked if I heard about it from the Bell Curve. I haven't read the bell Curve, Dan, but your question was a classic straw arguement.

I pefer not to have to back up my posts with scholarly research and the citations that follow it, as I do not have the time nor the memory. However the study was referenced on the Discovery Channel I believe when they had segments of Desmond Morris' "the Human Animal".

Now I do confess I am genetically inferior when it comes to proofreading my typing. I have an extremely fast hunt and peck style, and I rattle off my stuff with great speed. So if anyone quotes my posts, do me a favor, fix my typos! I really can spell.... hehe....

MichiganCouple, somehwere you asked me a question, I will go find it and respond.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Regularguy
I reread some of my posts, primarily because I like to read things from people I admire and agree with.....just kidding

I used the term about people 'whining". Although so far nobody has seemed to think this was direced at anyone, I wanted to make clear that I was speaking about excuse users in general. I certainly wouldn't characterize the original poster as whining, as he correctly pointed out some rude behavior, but generically I prefer not to use such terms directed at present company.

Dan,

In debate circls there is a tactic called the straw argument. You try to discret an idea by associating it with some person or thing that has been widely criticized. The Bell Curve is one of them. Rather then asking if I can find the study that demonstrated infants attention spans held longer when looking at attrative people, instead you asked if I heard about it from the Bell Curve. I haven't read the bell Curve, Dan, but your question was a classic straw arguement.

I pefer not to have to back up my posts with scholarly research and the citations that follow it, as I do not have the time nor the memory. However the study was referenced on the Discovery Channel I believe when they had segments of Desmond Morris' "the Human Animal".

Now I do confess I am genetically inferior when it comes to proofreading my typing. I have an extremely fast hunt and peck style, and I rattle off my stuff with great speed. So if anyone quotes my posts, do me a favor, fix my typos! I really can spell.... hehe....

MichiganCouple, somehwere you asked me a question, I will go find it and respond.

Apparently you don't re-read posts close enough. I said nothing about the Bell Curve, I asked you if you'd heard about this study from Art Bell. Who's Art Bell, you ask? A radio talk show host who deals with, shall we say, the more bizzare individuals among us. If someone claims to have been abducted by aliens, chances are Mr. Bell at some point will have him in the studio. Ditto for anyone claiming six month old babies can scope out hotties among the sea of mutts out there.

I constructed no straw arguments. I simply illustrated the ludicrous examples you provided in your posts by taking them to their natural conclusions -- the vast majority of people DO NOT engage in swinging to find lifelong mates and potential matramonial partners. Why the analogies about women not wanting garbagemen for husbands and guys marrying 300 pound women? Is this the Swingersboard or How to Marry a Millionaire? This is about swinging, remember? You know, casual, no-strings-attached sex?

Tell you what. At the next swinger's function you attend, try impressing the gals with your knowledge of natural selection and your finely honed instincts for weeding out those genetically inferior among us. Then you can come back here and relate your war stories of how you're up to your ears in poontang.

In the meantime, my wife and I will continue to seek out real, wonderfully non-pretentious people who accept us for who we are inside as we do them.

Dan

[Chicup]

[PDF]Early Aesthetic Choices: Infant Preferences for Attractive ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Aesthetic Choices 1 Early Aesthetic Choices: Infant Preferences for Attractive Premature
Infant Faces Mike Van Duuren, Linda Kendell-Scott, Natalie Stark King ...
www.wkac.ac.uk/departments/psychology/ staff/MvDIJBD.pdf.pdf - Similar pages


Saddly the link is dead, and it isn't important enough for me to search any deeper.

EDIT: If you click on the view as HTML version it works. Interestingly this one cites the study that realguy talked about and this study looked at babies reaction to other pictures of attractive/unattractive babies.