The body beautiful?

[CanadianCouple]

This is a subject discussed here previously, but at the risk of sounding redundant, I have to re-iterate our abject frustration at the great majority of ads looking for "HWP" only. It must seem to the un-initiated that swinging is for gym rats only, and anyone more than a few pounds over the ideal is wasting their time.

Having spent the past several days looking through Swappernet ads, I've seen nothing to change my mind. One even had the gall to state that "BBW is a contradiction in terms." Nice, huh?

Sorry, just had to vent.

Dan

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
This is a subject discussed here previously, but at the risk of sounding redundant...

CanadianCouple,

I do not find this topic redundant at all. I acutally find it very appropriate. I do remember the thread you were talking about and from just that short period of time (roughly 8 months or so ago) some of our own opinions have changed. I actually thank you for bringing it up so I can vent a little on my own.

This is only based on my personal opinion after a year of watching people come and go and how they first start out in their search for *swinging* both on this board and pay sites.

Many come into the lifestyle looking for the "perfect" body first, thinking that swinging means nothing but picking up some free *SEX* Age generally takes the next preference, with a lot of other nit picky things following it and then at the very bottom of the totem pole are personalities.

We were a little backwards in our preferences as age came first and then personality, with HWP at the bottom of the totem pole. Over the last year we have taken age to the bottom of the pole, thanks to some pretty cool people we have met and corresponded with that convinced me (as this was my problem and not Gene's) that age has no bearing on like minded people if you get along in the most important way.

Our highest priority now is personality. We have met some killer couples (body, facial wise) that had absolutely no clue to the time of day and you'ld have thought if they smiled they would crack their makeup. They were eager to play and we were not. There was no *connection* intellectually.

It really bothers me when people put HWP in their profiles, as to me it shows they are shallow. I was shallow on the age thing, but that has changed now. Considering that I married a man 15 years my senior, one wouldn't think age would be an issue to me, but it was. Not only is HWP subjective, it pays no attention to the individual inside the package.

Let me meet someone who has the kindness, intellect and ability to make me feel comfortable and I can relate to, who may have not enough or a little extra pounds or maybe some surgical scars...whatever, I'll take that any day of over someone whom I can't hold a meaningful conversation with, HWP or not.

Lori

[imsnowman]

It really bothers me when people put HWP in their profiles, as to me it shows they are shallow.

1. So what you all are saying is people whose preferences are to play with HWP's are shallow and those who don't care aren't shallow?
2. How is it that your criteria ie personality is less shallow ie better on some cosmic scale than those people who like HWP's?
3. Why are you concerned about other peoples criteria?
4. Why do you care if they are "shallow"?

We've meet plenty of attractive couples who aren't in the "absolutely no clue to the time of day and you'ld have thought if they smiled they would crack their makeup." camp.

Many come into the lifestyle looking for the "perfect" body first, thinking that swinging means nothing but picking up some free *SEX*

It seems that for you swinging isn't about sex. That's fine. For other people it is about sex. That's fine too. If one doesn't want to play with those people don't. I'm just not sure why those people are shalllow and you're not. I though that the point of swinging was to be able to have sex with people that society says you're not supposed to have sex with. If swinging isn't about sex than why do swingers have sex? Why not just enjoy their personalities?

We have lots of friends that aren't in the lifestyle and we don't have sex with them. Some of them we're not sexually attracted to physically or emotionally. Some of them we are attracted to. Either way they are still friends. What differentiates our non-Lifestyle friends from our swinging friends is sex. We have sex with our swinging friends. We don't with our non-swinging friends even if we are attracted to them.

People are people. They come in all shapes and sizes, all kinds of personalities. There is somebody for everyone.
Why let someone else's idea of the "perfect" person concern you or the board?
What is it you're trying to accomplish with your posts about this topic?

I certainly don't think you're going to change their minds. Only time and experience (as with your own criteria "Over the last year we have taken age to the bottom of the pole" ) will do that if it will be done at all. The HWPer's may find that that criteria works just fine for them "Thank you" and never change. Will they miss some good times(SEX)? Maybe but if they're happy with the results what different does it make to you?

Maybe a "Live and let Live" philosophy would reduce your "abject frustration". It seems to us that there are enough people in the world trying to tell other people how to live their lives (for instance, alQuaida to chose an extreme example!).

So take this post as food for thought. Far be it for me to tell yall how to live your swinging lives but I think you're beating a dead horse, barking up the wrong tree and preaching to the choir!

[imsnowman]

1. Would a person who prefers BBW's be shallow or create "abject frustration"?

2. I don't recall any posts from the HWPers complaining about the BBW lovers. Do yall?

[OhioCouple]

Imsnowman,


"It really bothers me when people put HWP in their profiles, as to me it shows they are shallow."

When I made this statement I should have used the word "seems" as opposed to "shows". My apoligies for that one.

Speaking only for myself here, I did express myself based on my own experiences over the last year. We meet the majority of lifestyle memebers through pay sites. Through them we meet others in their circle of friends in addition to those we have met through clubs and private parties.

Before I go into further detail, exactly what is the definitiion of HWP? Whose guidlines do we follow? That which is put out by the AMA, (which changes constantly) or one in which the person who seeks HWP? Does the terminolgy mean HWP in such as the seeking party has? That is what is so confusing to me. HWP varies by the individual and I will use myself as an example.

I am 5'5" tall and if I weigh anything under 135 pounds I look like I should be given last rights. A good healthy weight for me is a minimum of 150 pounds. By AMA standards I am not HWP. I am over weight. The way my body is designed is that I have exceptionally long legs and very little waist. So in order to have the appearance of a healthy curvy body I need the additional weight. Now I am not going to tell my weight on here (cause girls just don't do that thing) , but most people nearly faint to find out that I am over 125-130 pounds.

Now the sites that we belong to have as part of their profile a weight and height range. I am always honest about it but dependent upon how one views HWP, I would be considered obese by those who have evenly distributed body parts and probably weigh in the AMA range and look damn good and would look over weight if they carried the same that I do.

As for the shallowness, I considered even my own self shallow for not recognizing that you can be 20 something and have a much healthier outlook on life than quite a few of the 40+ age group that I know and have met in both non and non swing environments. My opinion was that if you didn't have the age you didn't have the life experience needed to connect with me on an intellectual level. Over the last few months, I have learned how wrong I was through some very special people. Therefore, I no longer have the discrimination that I harbored in my own mind about the younger generations.

Shallowness is also subjective. In my thinking if you cannot be open to viewing people as a whole, you are shallow. Right or wrong, that is just how I view it. I am certainly not out to change anyone else's perceptions, their deal is just that, as mine is mine. I am just sharing some important lessons that I have learned.

For us it is not just all about sex and we realize that there are some in which that is thier primary focus. That's cool, I say go for it and have a good time, you just aren't the kind of people that we would be inclined to be intimate with. We happen to prefer to connect with others in more ways than physically when it comes to swinging, not really any different than what we enjoy about our non-swinging friends, minus the sex.

Lori

[RnKin Fla]

I have to agree with Lori here.

As a BBW, it does bother me to see so many HWP ads out there. But, I console myself with the thought that they are not the kind of people I'd like to get to know anyway. While I agree that we are in the lifestyle for the sex, as well as the new friends, we try not to judge based solely on appearances, and expect the same from those we meet.

Here's an example:

R and I met this one single man at a club. He was really nice, and fun to talk to, but kept ogling all the barbies at the club, making it clear he was not interested in me sexually.

This did not really bother me, as I was having a good time talking to everyone. Then, someone said something that made me laugh. I smiled at R and this guy, just a happy smile. And this guy's face lit up.

After that, he couldn't stay away from me. Post-coitus, I asked him about his earlier attitude. He said that usually he was not attracted to BBWs, but that he really liked my smile and my attitude, and that made me so much more attractive to him.

Do you see what I am getting at here? I realize that physical attraction has to be present in order to have a sexual relationship. However, there is so much more to it than that.

(And don't think that he was with me because he was desperate. He wasn't - he was VERY attractive, and had several women hanging all over him.)

K

[babydragon]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla
I have to agree with Lori here.

As a BBW, it does bother me to see so many HWP ads out there. But, I console myself with the thought that they are not the kind of people I'd like to get to know anyway. While I agree that we are in the lifestyle for the sex, as well as the new friends, we try not to judge based solely on appearances, and expect the same from those we meet.

K

You took the words right out of my mouth on this subject. Maybe we are not all 36-26-36, and to be honest good luck to those who are.
Personally I am on the larger size and what I have found is that some people take on look at a pic of a larger ladie and say "no way" which is their own preference but I have visited a few sites where not only do they think it they broadcast it. Pulling a ladie down without even knowing the first thing about her, which I personally find sickening.()()

I believe I am very lucky, not only do I have one hell of a husband (who loves every ounce of me) but we have found a great couple who dont judge on looks but on personality.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by imsnowman
1. Would a person who prefers BBW's be shallow or create "abject frustration"?

2. I don't recall any posts from the HWPers complaining about the BBW lovers. Do yall?

In answer to your first question, yes they would be if they "snubbed" anything that wasn't their ideal. Quite often we have seen those that use HWP as their criteria for sexual partners berate others based on sight unseen people due to the fact that their weight does not factor into their height as being "fit and trim". I've seen it online, I've seen it in profiles, I've seen it live in clubs. I've even been the recipient of unsolicited mail from someone who told me that if I ever wanted to have a *meaningful* sexual relation in the swinging environment, that there was a Nautilis near me. I suppose they took the time to check it out, I didn't, so I'll just take their word for it. Now I don't know, but I am sure there are the BBW lovers that treat the *Ken and Barbies* the same. I just haven't been privy to it or fallen victim to it.

In answer to your second question, I don't really recall any posts from specifically the HWPer's complaining about the BBW lovers, but I do recall some of the posts from the HWP's condemning the BBW's. Below is a link to that topic.

Height/wieght proportional. ... yeah right......

Lori

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by babydragon
Maybe we are not all 36-26-36, and to be honest good luck to those who are.

EGADS!!! The standards have changed again??? What happened to the 36-24-36 (aka perfect body), or does this just apply to the over 30 crowd this year?!

What RnKin Fla stated is a perfect example of what is the norm in how people view others. When this person saw a glimpse of the inner person his attention did an about face.

Lori

[TeamSoBe]

This all goes back to a basic guiding principle of mine: the rules in swinging are exactly the same as the basic rules of dating. It's just a mistake to think that somehow swinging changes the fundamental rules for how people hook up with each other. The dating rule that's relevant here is that some people are just flat-out not interested in having sex with overweight people. Making those people into swingers doesn't somehow magically make them interested in having sex with people that they don't consider sexually attractive.

When I was single I wouldn't have been interested in sex with a girl that was really overweight so I don't see how that's any different in swinging. My wife feels the same way. Body fat doesn't have any bearing on what I think of a person as a friend. My best friend in the world is a 3D animator that spends all day in front of a computer and he's enormously fat. I mean seriously huge, we worry about his health. I love him and I love being around him, I'm just not interested in fucking him.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this out loud, but I personally think that the "shallow" label is something that fat people use to deflect blame. If I'm not attracted to a fat girl, it's not because she's fat, it's because I'm shallow. "Shallow" is a term that is used by fat people to classify the world into two categories: people that will give them a chance and people that will not give them a chance. Ironically, it's a very shallow and self-serving classification system.

[babydragon]

OK lets open a whole can of worms here. Everyone has gone on about HWP and BBW and all things implied within, lets look at the BIGGER stage (pun intended).

None of us can say we havn't seen adds where people are honest enough to say we dont want this or that, I think what the problem some people find is the wording is not exactly sensitive to those it covers.

I can think of atleast a few ways to word it differently but then again it isn't me posting my preferences. If I was to post a add stating ok I dont OHM, VCM or my personal favorite WBTM, I'd prolly not get any nice replies and def lots of flak. (I'll explain the abbs at the end).

WE all have our preferences and thats ok but maybe just maybe a bit more sensitivy would be helpful.

(Abbs from above are OHM Overly Hairy Men, VCM Vertically Challenged Men and WMTM is Wam Bam Thankyou Men.)

Personally I am would never make any sort of statement regarding looks at all cause the person inside is who turns me on.
(well and personal hygiene helps)

[RnKin Fla]

I understand what TeamSoBe is saying, but I disagree that we larger folk use the shallow label to deflect anything.

If you are not attracted to fat girls, then hey, that is your preference. However, you might be surprised just how much that little hottie down the street actually weighs.

When you base something on just a number, THAT is shallow.

Aside from that, yes I am fat - I use BBW because most people are uncomfortable with the word fat. I have no problem with it and I am comfortable with myself. You'll notice that I have never said, "yes, I am fat but I have been losing weight."

And I find that if most people take a little bit of time to hang out with me they find me darn near irresistable.

Now, if I were to be really shallow my ad would read something like "no one need apply who cannot spell or uses 'u' instead of you and 'ur' instead of your/you're."

How's that for shallow?

But, as I said, we don't judge on appearance, or on lack of spelling ability. We like to get to know you, and make an effort to see what is truly beautiful inside a person.

K

[CanadianCouple]

Imsnowman --

If an individual or couple were to preclude any possibilty of swinging with anyone who's overweight simply because of that physical characteristic, you're damned right they're shallow. Sure, we all have preferences including those who gravitate towards BBW's, but to exclude someone soley because they're not the physical ideal is pretty crass. Crass also describes the many ads that seemingly draw parallels between being overweight and being dirty, as if the two are synomymous with each other. Yeah, it's just about sex, but surely there's a connection other than just the physical that's got to be present, otherwise a knothole in a tree would do. How would you ever know if that connection is there if you don't give the other couple a chance to meet you?

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by OhioCouple


I don't really recall any posts from specifically the HWPer's complaining about the BBW lovers, but I do recall some of the posts from the HWP's condemning the BBW's.

Lori --

The following is a quote from a Rhode Island couple's ad, referring to their aversion to overweight swingers --

"Sorry, we're not giving out steak only to get hamburger in return."

What egotistic, pompous asses.

Dan

[TeamSoBe]

I wonder how much of the irritation over the 'shallow' people comes from the fact that they are looking for HWP partners and how much of the irritation comes from the fact that they say so right up front in their profile. We don't say anything like that in our online profiles because we just don't say anything negative at all in those. Our online profiles are about what we're looking for as opposed to what we're not looking for. We don't pursue anything with people that we aren't attracted to, but there's no point in throwing out blanket insults right up front.

As far as inner beauty though, I'm looking for inner beauty when I'm looking for a love mate. When I'm looking for a partner for an explicitly sexual relationship where the whole idea is that I don't develop too many emotions, then I don't see why inner beauty is really a relevant concept.