In defense of Ken & Barbie

[Spoomonkey]

This thread made me finally have to say something...

I am no "Ken"...

I think Mrs Spoomonkey is a brunette "Barbie", but I will admit to a strong bias...

However, why are "Ken & Barbie" so villified? I mean - what did they do wrong? Physical attractiveness is not like kicking a puppy... Being "hot" doesn't mean you poke old ladies in the eye and take their welfare check... Having sculpted abs and bedroom eyes doesn't mean you're the devil incarnate...

But for some reason, everyone seems down on "Ken & Barbie". And I just don't get it...

As a couple, we exercise regularly (irregularly when the weather sucks), eat right (with the exception of holidays and after club munchie runs) and generally pay a lot of attention to our appearance. This is something we do for - SHOCK! - us...

We like the way we feel when we do it - and, honestly, we like the way we look... I imagine - trying to put myself in the head of "Ken & Barbie" - that they do it mostly for the same reasons we do.

Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

Spoomonkey

[Dynamar]

Just like lots of dolt-ish single males ruin things for the "good" single males, hot but evil Kens & Barbies ruin it for the hot and nice Kens & Barbies.

I say right in my profile that Ken and Barbie are certainly welcome... I liked them (and played with them) a lot when I was a youngster! But they'll need to be deeper than the kiddie pool and open to getting to know lots of different kinds of people.

Some Kens and Barbies are just like any other folks... down to earth, there for a good time, look at the "whole package", etc. But fact of the matter is... lots of Ks&Bs are just down for meeting other Ks&Bs... to them "their type" is the only sexy thing out there.

Too bad for them, I say. Sexy comes in all kinds of wrappers.

The flip side of the coin, of course, is that non-Ks&Bs (Fred, Wilma, Dan, Roseanne and the rest of us) sometimes have an inferiority complex about themselves and won't risk rejection by coming on to K&B first. Then you have the "hot girl stays at home with no dates, because everyone is afraid to ask her out" syndrome.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Dynamar

But fact of the matter is... lots of Ks&Bs are just down for meeting other Ks&Bs... to them "their type" is the only sexy thing out there.

We were actually invited to a club once and the invitation included "there are more of 'our type' of people there."

While flattering that we are supposed to have an "our type of people" we realized that people who use the term "our type of people" probably aren't "our type of people". So I hear what you are saying...

Anyone, wrapped in a cloud of arrogance, completely loses any "hotness" they might otherwise have...

Spoomonkey

[lcjtsd]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

While flattering that we are supposed to have an "our type of people" we realized that people who use the term "our type of people" probably aren't "our type of people". So I hear what you are saying...

Anyone, wrapped in a cloud of arrogance, completely loses any "hotness" they might otherwise have...Spoomonkey

I think you hit it right on the head there Spoomonkey. From our experience this is what we find. Since we are Mr. & Mrs. Average and could stand to lose 10-15 pounds each, the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No. One glance and the nose goes right up. We are not "Their type of people", whatever that is supposed to mean.

I know that everyone has their preferences but as I was said in the other post, there are a lot more important things that we look for than just the looks.

Not that there aren't some Ken & Barbies who are nice, regular people who have just been lucky to be blessed to be Ken & Barbies. It's just that we haven't met them yet. Maybe one day. Until then, we are more than happy to meet the other nice Mr & Mrs. Averages out there.

If there are any fun, nice K & B's here in Las Vegas who would like to meet a fun, nice average couple and see if the sparks fly, give us a hollar.

Mr & Mrs LCJTSD.

[KajiKurai]

Originally Posted by Dynamar

Too bad for them, I say. Sexy comes in all kinds of wrappers.

I've been asked what is my preference plenty of times. I honestly don't have one though. So you're not a supermodel. If you have a good/great personality you get my interest. More for me I guess. I think Capt. Kirk was on to something. Some people will always be superficial. Those people just aren't for me and my SO.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by lcjtsd

the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No.

What we have found is that the Ken & Barbies at our clubs are either:

1. Only interested in looking at themselves in the mirror
2. just as scared of you as you are of them

We are not a bad looking couple - and we have been surprised at how many people at our club think we aren't interested in them without even saying a word to us.

For the longest time, we didn't talk to them because we were new, insecure, nervous and figured they wouldn't want to talk to us...

Then we got brave...

And guess what!

We found out that a lot of people sort of wrote us off as a "K&B" type couple - assuming we were stuck up because we were afraid to talk to them. I think you'd be surprised - a lot of those "stuck up" couples really have no idea what to say to you...

Granted - there are plenty of couples who really are sort of full of themselves, but you should never assume. We've learned that some of the best experiences happen because we "dared" to talk to that couple we thought was way over our head...

In fact, one of those couples - that we thought would run sreaming away actually told us that they were afraid to approach us because they didn't think we'd like them...

You can't expect people to be forward with you just because they're attractive. Believe it or not, some of those folks are sitting there, looking at you, afraid to make that first move - just waiting for someone to be nice first...

Spoomonkey

[xxoticangel]

A few years ago there was a swing club here in Atlanta that actually required potential members to submit photos of their drivers license along with full body clothed and nude photos to a board to be voted on prior to being given the address of the club. If I remember correctly they were exclusively for the 18-35 year olds and advertised specifically for "people like us". I haven't heard anything about them in several years so I assume they went the way of the do-do. My attraction to someone is total package based and while looks are important they ain't everything. He says he can find something attractive about anyone.

[sweetshyquiet]

Originally Posted by lcjtsd

Since we are Mr. & Mrs. Average and could stand to lose 10-15 pounds each, the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No. One glance and the nose goes right up. We are not "Their type of people", whatever that is supposed to mean.

This whole post makes me sad.

It's just as wrong to assume that all pretty people have terrible personalities and that all average people all have great personalities...

...as it is to assume that older couples are all cheesy mulleted hot-tub rompers and younger couples are all drama-filled newbies who can't possibly be secure in their marriage, and single men are all just about to rape someone, and all black men have 13-inch cocks and swingers with kids must be boring and... is the point getting made yet?

Stereotyping is stereotyping. Being the victim of stereotyping is not permission to start perpetrating it on others.

Mr. SSQ and I are a straight-up Mr/Mrs. Average-Looking. We have played with every single type on the attractiveness spectrum. There are great people, and there are assholes, in every category. Ken and Barbie do not have the lock on arrogance, elitism, or ignorance, and I'll tell you that for free.

lcjtsd, I don't mean to sound dickish, I really don't -- but this:

I know that everyone has their preferences but as I was said in the other post, there are a lot more important things that we look for than just the looks.

...is a perfect example of my statement that K&B don't have a lock on elitism. I don't see why it's acceptable to imply that your preferences (i.e. which do not include looks) are somehow better or more noble or more "important" than someone else's which happen to be based on looks.

At the end of the day, this is all about sex. What turns one person on isn't always what turns on another. For me? it's a big fat brain, and confidence + charm, and that ain't nothin' you can get just by going to a gym. Work those and you can pretty much be Quasimodo, as far as I care. But I respect that other people care more for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. Different strokes, you know?

But I don't look smugly at those who do filter for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. I wish them luck. Thank heavens there are enough swingers in the world that they can have what they want and I can have what I want.

(end rant, sorry)

Now, to change sides:

The two problems I have had with Ken & Barbie types are --

1. Having preferences is fine, snubbing is not. When beautiful people literally cannot have a conversation at a party or a club because they are actively snubbing anyone who isn't equally as beautiful, then they are ruining the atmosphere for me. It's a junior-high behavior borne out of a lack of self-esteem, which is quite unattractive... but worse, it's what turns perfectly nice venues into meat markets.

edited to clarify after Spoo's cross-post: I don't presume that any K&B who aren't socializing must be snubbing. I mean, you join a group, say hi to your friends, introduce yourselves to the new couple, they both give a blatant visual onceover on your physique, and then are immediately looking to meet someone else, can barely even get out "nicetomeetyou" before their eyes are roaming for someone hotter. It's happened to us and I see it happen at parties/clubs all the time. I find it quite sad.

2. Focusing on looks to the exclusion of any other trait almost always indicates an underlying conceit that will manifest in jealousy issues, popularity contests, and materialism. That's been my experience 100% of the time. So, people who care about looks but don't care about intelligence are always going to be a no for us.

But, I can freely say that it doesn't make them bad people... just not my type.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by sweetshyquiet

Focusing on looks to the exclusion of any other trait almost always indicates an underlying conceit that will manifest in jealousy issues, popularity contests, and materialism. That's been my experience 100% of the time. So, people who care about looks but don't care about intelligence are always going to be a no for us.

Good point - but like you said, this isn't solely the territory of the Ken's & Barbie's of the world...

We have known some pretty "junior high-ish" folks who's looks couldn't get them on the radio...

Spoomonkey

[good times]

We have been guilty in the past of seeing a hot couple and thinking they wouldn't be interested in us and not making the effort to get to know them that we might have a more average couple. But recently we have been shown the error of that thinking. we hooked up and had a great time with a couple that is half our age. We had seen them around the club for a couple of years off and on but never made the effort to get to know them because we thought "they wouldn't want to play with us old farts". Then one slow night at the club we had the oppurtunity to get to know them a little and it turns out they hadn't approached us because they thought that "we wouldn't want to play with a couple of young people".

This may not be the popular opinion, but initially we are attracted to someone by their looks. In other words, if I don't think you look sexually attractive I will probably never experiance your personality, no matter how good it is. One does not have to be perfect to be attractive but if we meet two couples with equally good personalities the odds are we will be playing later with the couple that is closest to our idea of physically optimum. And judging by how much easier time these so called Ken and Barbie types seem to have hooking up with play partners it appears to me that a lot of people must feel the same.

So I have to say, that I think Ken and Barbie often get an undeserved bad rap.

I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

[txduo2000]

I don't like Barbie because my husband had an affair with her.

But that's just me. :rollseyes

Ok, seriously ... we are turned off by the "Ken and Barbie" types because they seem to always put the shallow attributes above all. It's like, if you don't have a personality, that's fine as long as you have a gorgeous face and a perfect body and can fit in with "our" clique.

That's our issue.

I am not perfectly thin and china-doll like. I have a few extra pounds, I have stretch marks, I have insecurities. My husband does not possess a six-pack, though he is naturally lean. His hairline is receding and he is far from perfect.

All in all, I think we are still a good looking couple. Neither of us fail to garner looks of appreciation when we are out, whether it is vanilla or swinger venue. But we still don't feel we fit the "Ken and Barbie" mold and we do not want to. We are "real" which we feel sets us apart from those who are not.

[sweetshyquiet]

For me, there's a vast difference between

Originally Posted by good times

because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves

and

Originally Posted by good times

give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

I think the latter is fine and the former is rude. To me, there's never any excuse to not be at least polite. It's totally possible to be polite and brief.

But... it occurred to me that I think the venue matters too. If this is a house party of 10 people, courtesy is even more key. If it's a nightclub of 300, it's easier to get away with shorter interaction.

Regardless, I think that it's just not that hard to communicate with one's body language and tone, "No, we aren't physically attracted to you but it is actually nice to meet you, and we can take 30 seconds to politely acknowledge your existence."

I also know that I am trigger-happy when it comes to nice manners though. More manners make the world a nicer place.

[LOL_OMG]

Manners and common courtesy have alot to do with it, and we have met alot of superficial morons...not only based on looks, but throw into it how much money you make or what your political standpoints are....there are alot of snobs out there.

We watch what we eat and stay in good shape, not to please anyone else but ourselves. We've been told by a club patron before, "by the looks of you guys you could have anyone in this place". I would hate to think that anyone decides not to talk to us just because of our looks (whether it's good or bad).

Someone made a comment that they didnt like facial hair, or only liked brunettes. Everyone really has something that is not their cup-of-tea. That's your perogative, but it's a kind of profiling...just as some leaner or younger couples might do. However, rudeness and snobbery is not acceptable in my book.

Spoo I know you've been around awhile and I have read some of your great advice/comments, but I'm curious as to why you started a whole new thread instead of commenting on the one established?

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by good times

I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

I had a conversation with someone at work about this very thing today. (Not in the aspect of swinging, but as regards dating.) She and I had a similar take in that we both think there's "polite" and there's "fake polite". Polite is, for example, taking the couple of minutes it might require to genuinely greet someone you're introduced to, and to at least speak to them "eye-to-eye" and sincerely. Fake polite is mumbling "hihowareya" while already looking for the next target of opportunity.

I agree with you, good times, that one may not want to spend much time with a couple one doesn't find attractive. But it also doesn't mean that one needs to be dismissive and arrogant, as it seems that all too often many K-and-B types are willing to be. Out here in the land where "Superficial" has been raised to a high art form, "fake polite" is all-too-common. It's the classic "snub": say the "right things" while not really acknowledging the other person's existance. Sorta like lots of white people used to treat black people. And there are plenty of Ks-and-Bs out here ready, willing and able to exercise that ability.

An illustration (from another venue):

"we are looking for georgeous people to test [some lame site I deleted].com, a new HOT club for sexy hookups and wild parties.

Note: NO FUGLIES allowed (fat, ugly, over 45, stalkers, minors, etc...)"

That said, there are also lots of truly beautiful people who meet the K-and-B criteria and who are not that way at all.

What's difficult is telling the type of K-and-B with which you're about to interact.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by LOL_OMG

Spoo I know you've been around awhile and I have read some of your great advice/comments, but I'm curious as to why you started a whole new thread instead of commenting on the one established?

Simple...

To do so would have been to hijack the other thread which - while having a mention of "Ken & Barbie" - was not ABOUT "Ken & Barbie". Rather it was about playing with a couple based on looks - and finding out there was no chemistry.

This thread is specifically about the "knee jerk" reaction people have when they see "Ken & Barbie" types - which, IMHO, is the exact same reaction they don't like when "Ken & Barbie" see them

Spoomonkey