In defense of Ken & Barbie

[HappyPeople]

I believe if people work hard to obtain a certain look and because of that look, they believe that they can do better than us so be it. I'm not offended if people aren't interested in us nor do we intend to offend others by not being interested in them. We always try to be polite and expect the same in return. There's no shortage of available couples where we are from, so there is something out there for everyone.

In most cases, looks are what attracts us to others and I expect those same standards to be applied to us. It's mostly about sex, not a personality contest.

Our "standards" are determined on an individual basis. While there are certainly body types that turn us off completely, there are also less than perfect body types that we really groove on.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by good times

But in swinging we are looking to meet people to have sex with, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me for someone to state that they aren't interested in certain body types if they don't find those body types sexually attractive.

Dito

I have to agree. Some may call it shallow... but I don't think there's anything shallow about it. Personality is very important to me. I prefer attractive & fit play partners, but if they don't have a personality to match their looks... I won't be interested in them either.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by 2inVT

But until I heard the words "Let's go play" from Barbie or Ken, that's all it would be.

I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

And if you don't make it...

Well - people make further assumptions...

Spoomonkey

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by good times

I dissagree with this statement and would guess that it is this attitude that is the reason for this thread.

It is...

The "assumption from afar" is something that makes me scratch my head. People look at "Ken & Barbie", assume they wouldn't be interested and then paint them with all sorts of nasty assumptions to justify their fear of rejection...

They may not be attracted to you, but it isn't because they lack a "congenial personality". There is nothing wrong with them being attracted to certain attributes - whether it is blond hair, a friendly smile or rock hard abs; what does it for them, does it for them...

I am not going to play with someone who I find physically unappealing simply because they have a great sense of humor. So, I guess I am going to Dito GT and Ves...

Spoomonkey

[good times]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

Dito

I have to agree. Some may call it shallow... but I don't think there's anything shallow about it. Personality is very important to me. I prefer attractive & fit play partners, but if they don't have a personality to match their looks... I won't be interested in them either.

Dito

This is exactly how I feel only you said it better Ves.

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

They may not be attracted to you, but it isn't because they lack a "congenial personality". There is nothing wrong with them being attracted to certain attributes - whether it is blond hair, a friendly smile or rock hard abs; what does it for them, does it for them...

I am not going to play with someone who I find physically unappealing simply because they have a great sense of humor. So, I guess I am going to Dito GT and Ves...

I agree, I once had a woman say to me "I think you are really handsome but I only get turned on by guys with long hair". Did I get bummed out? Sure, but I totally understand, and even though she blew me off I still think she has a great personality.

[HappyPeople]

I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

And if you don't make it...

Well - people make further assumptions...

Agreed! As a physically fit and somewhat trendy couple, we are a bit insecure at times too - we're just a bit shy... I'd hate to think that folks that we'd like to play with are not giving us "the signal" because we work out regulary and they don't. We try to make the "glances" and "looks" too but JC... A little help?

[txduo2000]

I do not think I conveyed myself properly.

I also will not play with someone who I do not find physically attractive. Part of what I was trying to say is that in MY perception, the "beautiful people" tend to place unattainable standards onto others. It seems that the ones WE have come across are looking for absolute perfection, which no one has, yet some actually believe themselves to be.

As a sidenote, I will state that when I have "criticized" the "beautiful people" to some of our friends (speaking generally, of the type of environment that the aforementioned club is reputed to have), I have often been told that I am one of the "beautiful people" ... I disagree with that statement each time I am told that. I am told that I would fit in wonderfully with those at this particular club, but I am simply not interested.

Yes, there are some "beautiful people" with great personalities ... I do not place them in this Ken and Barbie category. Someone else stated that they considered Ken and Barbie to reflect artificial personalities, shallowness, and conceitedness. That's my opinion as well. I know some very beautiful people who have terrific personalities ... I have seen pics of people, and only talked to them on this board. I think they are absolutely gorgeous ... because of MORE than their physical attributes ... because of WHO they portray themselves to be on this board. (Example: Mrs. LikeMinds is beautiful, inside and out, but it is her personality on this board and her sensitivity as a human being that enhances her physical beauty. Rarely does physical beauty enhance a dull or lacking personality).

I think that there are a great many people who are beautiful in my eyes, but wouldn't be in another's. That's just preference.

My opinions are about those who are beautiful, know it, want to make sure everyone else knows it and have impossibly high standards for anyone else to attain. This is why those clubs that generally cater to solely the "pretty people" typically fade out over time.

Mr. and Mrs. Spoo ... you are both VERY hot ... but are not in the category of Ken and Barbie, as the definition has evolved into what it has currently. Mr. and Mrs. Twofer ... VERY hot and not Ken and Barbie. Thrax, curiousagain, ES .... VERY hot ... not Kens. Vespertine, Dynamar, Mrs. Intuition ... very beautiful women ... not Barbies. See what I am saying?

[EmeraldCoast]

My experience was a few years ago. I had been in the area and tried to chat online on several different IM services and chatrooms to different local couples. Nothing ever came of it. Sooo... my hubby and I lived right down from a local social that has been around for over 20 years. We thought.. couldn't hurt.. let's check it out! My hubby had managed a famous swing club in Dallas years before and knew what to expect. This was however my first experience. We showed up, it was a very nice place (we later got married there ) and we sat down at a round table close to the dance floor. There were several other couples sitting at the table as well. A few hours later we both looked at each other and went home. Not once did anyone speak to us! (????) Not that we didn't try... we even asked a few to dance.

About a year later a friend of mine heard what happened and told us to check out this online swingers dating site. We did and seemed to have all kinds of response. So instead of meeting one by one... we invited 43 couples over for an all included ( food, liquor, pool, etc) house party. 4 couples showed up!!!! I found out later it was because my pictures were intimidating. Flattering but...My heart sank.

I decided after that, that I'd go to another house party myself. I got to know people personally and they saw my personality and not my looks. If I had a house party today... I'd have to rent a place and I would be thrilled!

Just goes to show... even the "barbie type" can get left out.

*KK*

[twoferfun69]

Ok, having read all of the posts here made by a lot of people I respect on this board, I have to toss in my pennies.
When I was dating, I had a profile on Match.com. I played with my profile on there many times, trying to get it right. I finally sat down with a Drambuie in one hand a great Fuente in the other and thought about what I really wanted out of a prospective mate. (Ultimately being the future Mrs. Twofer ). Now, having perused a ton of womens profiles, and I even looked at a few mens, to get an idea of what was acceptable, etc. Finally I happened upon an idea/ideal that I hold to today, and that Mrs. Twofer and I agree upon wholeheartedly. I wrote in my profile that I was not trying to be superficial, mean or stuck up, but I believe we all have one thing in common whether we choose to admit it or not. This being that I/we simply cannot see your personality from across the room. It is not a slight, it is not rudeness, it is not being stuck up, snobbish or any other negative form of representation you may desire to label it. It is simply a gauge by which physical attractiveness and, ultimately, sexual attraction are determined. I have in my mind an idea of what an attractive person is for ME. I am want to describe this in detail, but I have never been able to do so, for myself, let alone anyone else. Usually, it manifests itself more in the form of what I am NOT attracted to. It is no one's fault, it is not A fault. It simply is. I do not dislike someone for not being attracted to me, unless they are quite rude about it. Then I tend to get a bit snippy
And to comment on Mrs. Goodtime's post concerning talking with someone for a bit, but if you're not interested, moving on after a short time. Again, this is just like dating. There were a couple of women that I dated that just weren't for me. So, I cut them loose (sorry, crudely stated), so as to not "lead them on". That is what I would classify as mean, and very hurtful.
So, I guess my point is, please don't hate those that espouse an opinion of what they prefer. To each their own, and bless them for being nice about it.
Mr. Twofer soapbox steppin down.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by twoferfun69

So, I guess my point is, please don't hate those that espouse an opinion of what they prefer. To each their own, and bless them for being nice about it.

Mr. Twofer soapbox steppin down.

Amen, Brother!!!

I think you summed it up nicely.

[2inVT]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

And if you don't make it...

Well - people make further assumptions...

Spoomonkey

I put the ball in their court because so far, every local profile I've seen of folks who superficially fit the Barbie and Ken description have stated they only are interested in HWP, fit, attractive people.

Are we attractive? We think so. We're far more Dan and Roseanne than we are Barbie and Ken. Attractive is a subjective concept.

But again, I'm a short, round 45-year-old BBW - I'm only HWP if you're talking about very generous proportions. Mr2 is tall, husky, and although I (and a lot of other ladies) think he's adorable, nobody will ever mistake him for Mel Gibson. We're fairly fit, I think, but we're not about to run marathons or go rock-climbing.

So, to define putting the ball in their court, we'll chat, flirt, and be friendly. If we get some signals in return that tell us "Barbie and Ken" want to play, then we'll go for it and make the move.

I don't see it as a double standard; I see it more as being courteous and respecting what others are looking for. If someone's profile says they only want to play with 20 year olds, then I'm not going to be making a move on them either.

I'm not putting down those folks who have very specific preferences about appearance and body types and shapes. That's their choice, and more power to them.

We can usually pick up pretty quickly on whether Barbies and Kens whose profiles we haven't read are interested in us or not. And if Barbie and Ken state in their profile that size, shape, age, etc., are unimportant; and we've met them and liked them; then we'll definitely be suggesting some playtime.

[HappyPeople]

The internet is a bit different than the club. On the internet, people can see your picture AND read about your intrests while at the club, people can/do assume and never bother to try to find out.

[twoferfun69]

Originally Posted by HappyPeople

The internet is a bit different than the club. On the internet, people can see your picture AND read about your intrests while at the club, people can/do assume and never bother to try to find out.

Ah, yes, excellent point. See? I can go to bed now, I learned something today.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by HappyPeople

The internet is a bit different than the club. On the internet, people can see your picture AND read about your intrests while at the club, people can/do assume and never bother to try to find out.

What I have found funny is that this thread is proving you to be 100% correct...

And it is because people mix profiles they read with couples they see...

Don't judge me by someone else's profile...

:rollseyes

Spoomonkey

[2inVT]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

And it is because people mix profiles they read with couples they see...

Don't judge me by someone else's profile...

Spoomonkey

I wouldn't judge you by someone else's profile.

But if I am chatting and flirting with you, and you show no interest in me whatsoever beyond simply being polite, I'm going to judge that I'm not on your to-do list, and I won't pursue it beyond chatting and flirting.