In defense of Ken & Barbie

[good times]

Originally Posted by EvilMJ

Here comes my two cents .

What I don't agree with here is that you don't have a whole evening to find people who are sexually attractive. It is not always an easy thing to do to find a couple that you are both interested, so wasting your time with people, and possibly getting their hopes up when you are certain that you are not interested, to me is not a positive thing for anyone.

Anyone in this lifestyle quickly grows a thick skin and learns fast not to take anything personally. We all have our types and preference and if we do not fit that bill then so be it. I think what Good Times is saying makes perfect sense to me. I have been approached by people that I was in no way interested (in one case he was just not my type at all, even though he seemed like a nice man, just no spark), so I made polite conversation and moved on. I was not rude, no one was hurt and we were both able to use the rest of the evening to find people we were compatable with.

I have been to lots of socials and dances, etc and I found if you spend too much time with a couple being polite and take the time to get to know them, they see this as a clear sign that you are interested and then get upset when you don't chose to play with them. They actually responded better to just polite talk and then excusing yourself. No one took offense, no one was led on and no one wasted any time on something that isn't going to happen.

Exactly, first let me say that I don't think we would ever be confused with Ken and Barbie even though Mrs. GT is smoking hot (my biased but often verified opinion), but we try to stay in shape and watch our weight which puts us in the smaller percentage group of people than the average at any given club night. I think, based on experiance, that sometimes the physically fit better looking couples often get a reputation for being somewhat rude or arrogant out of neccessity. A lot of people just can't take a hint and if you are even slightly nice to them you end up spending the whole evening trying to politely get rid of them. When we first started we were always friendly and outgoing to everybody we met at the club and we hardly ever hooked up with anybody for play. The problem we ran into is that often, people just can't seem to read subtle body language as someone else said above. I think it only takes a few visits to the club to realize that if you are too friendly and don't move on quickly when not interested, that almost every time you go to the club you will have some couple that you aren't really interested in that follows you around all night pressuring you to hook up, and when you finally tell them you really aren't interested in them sexually they then have their feelings hurt and feel you are an asshole or have an arrogant personallity. So if you want to be free to meet other people it doesn't take long to figure out that you need to get better at the polite brush off or you will never hook up with anybody, the downside of that is that some of those people that you passed on will then think you are arrogant or an asshole. And as far as these people that you do pass on quickly hurting your reputation goes, it has been our experiance that if you are nice to the people, visit with them for to long and then move on, and they feel that you led them on or wasted their time for no reason, it hurts your reputation no worse than if you had just been polite but moved on quickly. My point is that when you run into that "hot couple with an attitude" it may be that they just aren't interested in you and don't want to lead you on. Yet when that same couple meets someone they are interested in, that couple may find them to be the nicest people in the world.

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey
I think Mrs Spoomonkey is a brunette "Barbie", but I will admit to a strong bias...

Originally Posted by ItTakes3
Since we are a couple with a Barbie, but no Ken, we experience both sides of the situation. She is drop-dead gorgeous

Originally Posted by good_times
Exactly, first let me say that I don't think we would ever be confused with Ken and Barbie even though Mrs. GT is smoking hot (my biased but often verified opinion)

As they say on other boards, "this thread is useless without pics..."

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Thrax

As they say on other boards, "this thread is useless without pics..."

Have you seen Mrs Spoo's and Mrs GT's avatar?

Case closed...



Spoomonkey

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Have you seen Mrs Spoo's and Mrs GT's avatar?

Case closed...

Those are great starts, but those damn avatars are sooooo small...

[good times]

Originally Posted by Thrax

Those are great starts, but those damn avatars are sooooo small...

Ah, so many little avatars of hot swingers board girls, so much chronic eye strain.

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by good times

Ah, so many little avatars of hot swingers board girls, so much chronic eye strain.

You're not helping.

[Deptydog]

I always thought refering someone as a Ken or Barbie meant that they were plastic or artificial. Not in the real sense, but in the sense of their personality.

We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

[Vespertine]

That's my definition too, Deptydog.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Deptydog

We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

I know EXACTLY what you mean...

The key word here is you've "met" them. When the phrase is used to describe a general group of people, I think it falls into judgementalism...

Now - if you say (to your SO) "'so and so' is just such a 'Ken and Barbie'" because you have met them and gotten that "plastic" vibe, then that's not judgementalism - that is assessment. It is the people who walk into a club, grab a table and refuse to budge, waiting for the swinging world to revolve around (and ultimately saunter up to) them, who then label every pretty face that didn't say "hello" plastic... That bugs me...

In my opinion, those folks are simply trying to make themselves feel better about their social hesitancy. In doing so, they are reverting to the ways of the junior high wall-flower (a herd I was a part of myself in middle school) who sits on the bleachers at the school dance and simply gets angry because they are too afraid to risk the rejection be saying hello...

Spoomonkey

[2inVT]

We would not approach "Barbie and Ken" to play. We are friendly to everyone, but as a BBW, I tend to assume that the "Barbie and Ken" types aren't going to be interested in us. I've read too many profiles saying that.

If we were sitting near them at a M&G, or other swinger gathering, we'd socialize, and probably flirt a little. But until I heard the words "Let's go play" from Barbie or Ken, that's all it would be.

We all have our preferences, and if theirs takes me off their to-do list, well, it's their loss.

What I have no patience for is people who are unfriendly and rude. We're not desperate, and being pleasant to us is not going to give us the wrong idea or false expectations. We have one couple we're friendly with whom we will never play with, for two reasons - we aren't their type, and they're not our type. No reason why we can't socialize and enjoy each others' company.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

Spoomonkey

Mrs. WS has some really HOT friends, total Barbies. She always jokes "It would be so much easier to hate you if you weren't so nice." And although we don't consider ourselves Ken and Barbie, we have never lacked for action with Ken's and Barbie's. So yes, most are fantastic people too.

I think the stereotype comes from all those personal ads stating "Hot, young, attractive couple seeks other hot, young, attractive couples." This is the minority, but it seems like all it is to them is sex with others just like themselves. Which if that is what gets you off... more power to you.

What I've really noted as interesting since we got into the lifestyle is how many men and women look for playmates different then their spouses. I am 5'7" and right where I should be on the body mass index. Mrs. WS is a bit plusher and a curvy woman. We're always amazed at how these men that are married to Barbie's with perfect bodies are all over Mrs. WS, and how women married to tall, buff Ken's that work out everyday are attracted to a more average bodied, shorter me.

So maybe there is a minority of Ken and Barbie's that give them a bad name, but I think the majority are not the souless people they are made out to be.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Deptydog

I always thought refering someone as a Ken or Barbie meant that they were plastic or artificial. Not in the real sense, but in the sense of their personality.

We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

I do. One of the swingers websites is owned by a Utahn, and he throws parties at a local club. But, the parties are "all the pretty people". We don't attend because unless the feeling many come away from it with is "you must be sub-30 and Playboy and GQ perfect." It's sad. I can say though that his parties are slowly dying for this reason.

Mr. WS

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by spoomonkey

Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

My impression of Ken and Barbie as the bad guy is mostly from reading their profiles ... which always emphasize that they want people just like them - buff, beautiful, built. That right there smacks clearly that they don't give a hoot about personality, and since they don't care about anyone else's personality, they probably don't have much personality themselves.

There is a swing club here in Dallas that we have never been to because the impression is that they cater solely to the "beautiful people". There are many clubs here in Dallas and we like to attend most of them to get a feel of which ones we like best. A friend of ours, who is kind of a BBW, attended this particular club and confirmed our impression. Heck, their website even proclaims in so many words that they are where the "beautiful people" come to party in the lifestyle. We have heard it from a couple of others who have gone as well, people who say they will never go back because it's just one big Ken/Barbie fest.

It just comes down to the impression that most Ken and Barbies give off that looks are paramount over and above any personality anyone else may have. That's what makes them the bad guy.

I believe myself to be an attractive woman. I never fail to garner my fair share of appreciative glances and compliments. Even many of you here have complimented me ... but I still do not believe I fit the "mold" that the Ken and Barbies are looking for. Their standards are simply too high. It's like their basic personality consists of "look at me and how great I am." And my opinion is that people of lesser attractiveness generally possess a higher level of congenial personality.

[good times]

Originally Posted by txduo2000

My impression of Ken and Barbie as the bad guy is mostly from reading their profiles ... which always emphasize that they want people just like them - buff, beautiful, built. That right there smacks clearly that they don't give a hoot about personality, and since they don't care about anyone else's personality, they probably don't have much personality themselves.

I dissagree with this statement and would guess that it is this attitude that is the reason for this thread.

I would agree if we were talking about finding friends to hang out and socialize with. I have friends of all shapes and sizes and how they look makes no difference to me, it is all about how well we get along, and how our personalities mesh is all that matters. But in swinging we are looking to meet people to have sex with, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me for someone to state that they aren't interested in certain body types if they don't find those body types sexually attractive. In my case, if you are significantly overweight I might find you a lot of fun to visit and interact with outside the bedroom, but I wouldn't want to have sex with you. I know people that like bigger body types and are not sexually attracted to the more slender people, does that mean they don't have much personality either? I think not, as I said before, body type preferences have nothing to do with personality in swinging, as we have met people with good and not so good personalities in all shapes and sizes.

[WesternSwing]

I guess this discussion goes back to the old argument of: are you more attracted to the person or the body? For us it is the person. Like I've said before, some 10's turn into 5's after ten minutes, and many 5's turn into 10's and are the best sex we've had in the lifestyle.

You are entitled to get out of swinging what you want to, and for that there should be no argument. If you want a certain body type and that's the most important trait you are looking for, then that is how you do it. Not wrong, just your way.

That said, we'll keep on keepin' on.

Mr. WS