In defense of Ken & Barbie

[Sweet_Candy]

Originally Posted by good times

This may not be the popular opinion, but initially we are attracted to someone by their looks. In other words, if I don't think you look sexually attractive I will probably never experiance your personality, no matter how good it is. One does not have to be perfect to be attractive but if we meet two couples with equally good personalities the odds are we will be playing later with the couple that is closest to our idea of physically optimum. And judging by how much easier time these so called Ken and Barbie types seem to have hooking up with play partners it appears to me that a lot of people must feel the same.

So I have to say, that I think Ken and Barbie often get an undeserved bad rap.

I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

Dito good times! This happens to be our view on this as well. When at a meet or club event we try to talk to everyone. But we separate those we want to have conversations with from those we want to have sex with. Why is it some here have a problem with this? We are here to solicit what we want out of the lifestyle, not what *others* want or what they *think* we *should* want.

[Pepper & Drew]

Originally Posted by sweetshyquiet

This whole post makes me sad.

It's just as wrong to assume that all pretty people have terrible personalities and that all average people all have great personalities...

...as it is to assume that older couples are all cheesy mulleted hot-tub rompers and younger couples are all drama-filled newbies who can't possibly be secure in their marriage, and single men are all just about to rape someone, and all black men have 13-inch cocks and swingers with kids must be boring and... is the point getting made yet?

Stereotyping is stereotyping. Being the victim of stereotyping is not permission to start perpetrating it on others.

...a perfect example of my statement that K&B don't have a lock on elitism. I don't see why it's acceptable to imply that your preferences (i.e. which do not include looks) are somehow better or more noble or more "important" than someone else's which happen to be based on looks.

At the end of the day, this is all about sex. What turns one person on isn't always what turns on another. For me? it's a big fat brain, and confidence + charm, and that ain't nothin' you can get just by going to a gym. Work those and you can pretty much be Quasimodo, as far as I care. But I respect that other people care more for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. Different strokes, you know?

But I don't look smugly at those who do filter for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. I wish them luck. Thank heavens there are enough swingers in the world that they can have what they want and I can have what I want.

I completely, wholeheartedly agree!!

Pepper

[Pinmonkey]

I wouldn't want to swing with a "Ken and Barbie" because frankly, I like my partners to have genitalia.

[EvilMJ]

I don't judge people on whether they are ken and Barbie. I put people in one of two lables, if you wil....Asshole and not asshole. If we get along and we are attracted to each other then fine, I don't care if they are the perfect specimen of manliness or womanhood, or if they have middle aged spread.

Personality is first and foremost.Yes I do drool over a perfect body, but I recently learned how much personality means to me. THere is a guy at our club who is HOT, he has a perfect body and a face to die for. Unfortuantley he knows it and seeks out only women with equally perfect bodies and faces. Sure, I think, that's fine, we all have our prefences and I can accept that. But I had occassion to talk with him, and by the end of the conversation his personality made him so unattractive that I would not touch him if he begged me.

So I really don't think it is a matter of looks, I honestly think it is personality that should be judged. I have been approached by Ken and Barbie types who I just love to death beacause they are sweet, nice people, and have no problem playing with them. I also have play dates with people who have less than perfect bodies. Once again it all came down to personality.

So I say stop the senseless bashing and judging of people based on their looks alone (good or bad) and start basing our opinons on the important stuff. Like personality and attraction.

[ItTakes3]

Since we are a couple with a Barbie, but no Ken, we experience both sides of the situation. She is drop-dead gorgeous and I am not. She is constantly being hit upon and I get the "Eeewwww!" look. We solved the problem by looking only for MFM candidates. It's less stressful on my ego.

[groovy9]

This seems as good a time as any to make my first post. My wife and
I are excited by the idea but worry about the repercussions, so we
haven't acted yet. We probably will at some point.

Anyway, she's Barbie. Smoking hot. Lifts weights (there is something
*really* hot about a woman doing deadlifts, let me tell you). Visible
abs. I'm Ken's moderately attractive cousin, Jim. I'm also very fit.

We (she, particularly) are pretty visual when it comes to sexual arousal.
We also happen to be nice people and we're both physically incapable
of being rude to someone who's being nice to us (she to a fault - hang
up on the damn telemarketer already!)

So what do we do if we go to a club intending to play?

If you're 50 pounds overweight or have green teeth or we just find you
physically unattractive on the whole, we're just not going to enjoy sex no
matter how cool you are. We won't be rude, we'll still enthusiastically talk
to you for a bit just because it's fun to talk to people, but we'll already have
written you off as a play partner. Same goes if you're hot but the first words
out of your mouth are "hey, your wife has nice tits."

I see no reason to vilify anyone for their sexual preferences. And let's
face it - if you have no physical standards for your sexual partners, you're
in a tiny minority. So my standards differ from yours. Sue me.

Feel free to bitch about "rude people" or "ass holes", but Ken and Barbie
might actually be neither of those. They might even be into your
15-years-older-and-30-pounds-overweight self.

[Chicup]

Is it time for this topic again already?

If there is one thing I've seen over the last few years in swinging is that there are a few standard topics on swinging forums. These include but are not limited to...

1 - Single males
a - Why am I not wanted?
b - Should they be allowed at clubs?
c - How do you find a good one?

2 - How can I get my wife interested?
a - I am no longer attracted to my wife and want someone else to have sex with.
b - The wife gave up on sex years ago.
c - My wife has already told me no several times.
d - I am afraid to bring it up.

3 - Where do we find another female for an FMF?
a - Insecure newbie couple who's male half doesn't admit it.
b - Bi-furious female

4 - Looks and swinging
a - Am I to fat to swing?
b - Why won't people swing with us?
c - Why can't we find people attractive like we are?
1 - Ken and Barbie, get over yourselves.
2 - Just because we take care of our looks and like the same doesn't make us bad people.

I'm sure if I gave it some thought I could come up with more, these are just on the top of my head. I think the real question is does it really matter if Ken and Barbie are defended or not, or what people think of them? Its all part of the equations we work with in finding play partners. I think a lot of less attractive couples attack Ken and Barbie out of jealousy (no one likes being rejected) and a lot of Ken and Barbie's can be quite rude about it.

The problem is sometimes you have to be a little rude. We take care of ourselves, we work out, we are not super attractive, but odds at the average swing club we are in the top 10% for looks right now based on our ages and appearance. We also worked HARD to get that way, especially Mrs. Chicup, and you wouldn't recognize us if you saw pictures of us from July and pictures of us now. We are not super picky on looks, but we really do require a mesh of looks and personality. Add it it Mrs. Chicup is of the shy side with meeting new people in general.

So the shy, attractive, youngish (though that is changing every year ) couple gets approached by the older, out of shape, couple. We are nice and chat, but really don't have any sexual attraction to them. If we are at a club with other friends we can find an excuse to leave pretty easy thats not rude, if not we can try to find on excuse, but if they are pushy sometimes you need to say 'nice meeting you, we are going.'

My guess is other couples, perhaps less shy and less worried about others feelings decide to nip it in the bud right away, I can't say I blame them, sometimes I wish we could be so up front.

Then yes we all know or know of the type of Ken and Barbie who are of the 'what were you THINKING talking to us' variety. There are a number of this type at the LL events in Chicago, and yea they are obnoxious, but it happens. My guess is if they were equally rude but ugly no one would care and write posts about them being so rude, its the rude + hot that seems to annoy people the most.

So in the end, have fun with people who you want to have fun with and who want to have fun with you. Who really cares about the rest?

[groovy9]

> We also worked HARD to get that way, especially Mrs. Chicup, and you
> wouldn't recognize us if you saw pictures of us from July and pictures of
> us now. We are not super picky on looks, but we really do require a mesh
> of looks and personality.

You boiled it down quite a bit better than I did. Same here on all points.

I lost 40 pounds last year. I started doing it for her and finished it for me.
Best thing I ever did, aside from marrying her. This year, I intend to get
totally ripped. I would recommend it to anyone.

You can start at http://www.johnstonefitness.com (I'm in no way affiliated).

BTW, these forums are great. Thanks for contributing.

[Thrax]

I always thought Barbie was unattainable, so I never really even considered hitting on her. Now, her little sister Skipper, however...
(And before any of you make any "jailbait" comments about that, let me remind you that Skipper is over 40 now. Still, the lack-of-genitals thing could be problematical. That would be HER lack of genitals, btw.)

[curiousagain]

I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".
I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

And, we all have our preferences and pet peeves and it's not always about us. If someone isn't interested it may not have anything to do with us and it may all be a matter of timing. Don't take it personal. Just see it as avoiding a waste of time and move on. There's plenty of fish in the sea, just keep casting your net.

We are all human and wonder sometimes why people can't see us for what we perceive to be our best points. This isn't dating, it's swinging. If I'm going to spend the weekend with you, you better have a damn personality or I'm going to be regretting I am there and vow to never come back if I show up at all. If I'm just going to walk in and fill a role, do a job, whatever, then my percetion of your hotness AT THAT MOMENT is pretty much all that matters. In that situation personality doesn't carry a lot of weight in decision making.

I've had some pretty pedestrian women give me the "oh get real look" and not even otherwise acknowledge my existence and I've had some pretty hot women tell me I was gorgeous and screw me in front of other people so I don't take any of it personally. Just go with the flow and have a good time.

edit: And I figure I'm no different than any one else. I have met women that I would not have been attracted to purely on looks, but once I got to know them they became the hottest of the hot in my book. And, I've seen some cover girl types that I was immediately attracted to but after a few minutes of conversation I tried to run away without it seeming obvious. So just keep putting your best foot forward, whatever that may be, try to have manners and some social skills and cut everybody a little slack and give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove you wrong.

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by curiousagain

I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".
I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

I think you're exactly right.

[Uomo]

Originally Posted by good times

We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

This quote somewhat bothers me (at least the part about moving on "as quickly as possible.") Why not take a little bit more time to get to know them? You have to whole evening to match up with people you find sexually attractive ... so what's the rush? I guess I feel that a polite greeting and quick dismissal tends to dismiss the person ... as a person. I don't think that its ever "polite" to do that ... it comes across (to me) as somewhat insensitive.

The other reason why I don't think that is a good way to go is that you don't know who the "unattractive" couple are friends with. If you are "politely" dismissive ... that's not good to sit all to well with your reputation. Think about it: if someone demonstrates insensitivity to the feelings of someone (unattractive) whom you are fond of, how will that make you feel about that other person? Not someone I would care to be around. On the other hand, that unattractive couple might appreciate the fact you took the time to get to know them as people (we all would feel that way) ... and just might introduce you to another couple who you are sexually attracted to (and with an enhanced reputation going in). You never know who's friends with who. If you take that kind of approach, I don't know how you can go wrong.

But that's just my two cents.

Originally Posted by curiousagain

I have met women that I would not have been attracted to purely on looks, but once I got to know them they became the hottest of the hot in my book.

I couldn't agree more. Just one more reason ...

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by Uomo

This quote somewhat bothers me (at least the part about moving on "as quickly as possible.") Why not take a little bit more time to get to know them? You have to whole evening to match up with people you find sexually attractive ... so what's the rush? I guess I feel that a polite greeting and quick dismissal tends to dismiss the person ... as a person. I don't think that its ever "polite" to do that ... it comes across (to me) as somewhat insensitive.

Here comes my two cents .

What I don't agree with here is that you don't have a whole evening to find people who are sexually attractive. It is not always an easy thing to do to find a couple that you are both interested, so wasting your time with people, and possibly getting their hopes up when you are certain that you are not interested, to me is not a positive thing for anyone.

Anyone in this lifestyle quickly grows a thick skin and learns fast not to take anything personally. We all have our types and preference and if we do not fit that bill then so be it. I think what Good Times is saying makes perfect sense to me. I have been approached by people that I was in no way interested (in one case he was just not my type at all, even though he seemed like a nice man, just no spark), so I made polite conversation and moved on. I was not rude, no one was hurt and we were both able to use the rest of the evening to find people we were compatable with.

I have been to lots of socials and dances, etc and I found if you spend too much time with a couple being polite and take the time to get to know them, they see this as a clear sign that you are interested and then get upset when you don't chose to play with them. They actually responded better to just polite talk and then excusing yourself. No one took offense, no one was led on and no one wasted any time on something that isn't going to happen.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by curiousagain

I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".
I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

I'm not so sure...

It seems that - at times - people assume attractive couples are rude just as quickly as others assume overweight people are lazy.

It's what we used to call in the car business (a very dark period of my life) "curb qualifying". You decide whether or not you are going to approach a customer based on their appearance - do they look like they can buy a car today, or are they window shoppers who are going to waste your afternoon and leave in their busted down Kia?

If someone is approachable, I'll talk to them. Like GT said, I am not going to spend a lot of time if they aren't attractive, but I do pretty much talk to everyone at the club. What I have noticed though - that doesn't always work in reverse...

Trust me - as a couple who has been "curb qualified" as a "Ken & Barbie" type, I'd say that people make some pretty big snap assumptions... And it isn't only the "pretty people" who judge others based on appearance.

Spoomonkey

[Uomo]

[QUOTE=EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by Uomo

It is not always an easy thing to do to find a couple that you are both interested, so wasting your time with people, and possibly getting their hopes up when you are certain that you are not interested, to me is not a positive thing for anyone ... I have been to lots of socials and dances, etc and I found if you spend too much time with a couple being polite and take the time to get to know them, they see this as a clear sign that you are interested and then get upset when you don't chose to play with them. They actually responded better to just polite talk and then excusing yourself. No one took offense, no one was led on and no one wasted any time on something that isn't going to happen.

One day ... I'm too sentimental ... the next day ... too detached. Still trying to find that (elusive) middle ground.

The more I think about what you said, the more I tend to beleive you are probably correct. You speak from experience ... and certainly would know better than I. So I'll take your advice for the gospel and ponder it.

Spoo is right ... chimpin ain't easy.