BBW sex or not?

[classi_chassis]

I look at it this way..........if I were 10 ft tall I'd have the perfect "society" body!!!! BUT for me and my man, I am perfect. No one has ever been able to convince me that I am NOT Barbie....... Do you realize that if the Barbie Doll came to life she is so NOT HWP that she would not be able to stand up. LOL

[EvilMJ]

I re-read the whole thread just to get a feel for it again and here is what I have taken from it.

No one wants to be lumped together as a group. One comment did jump out at me later- Prettylady, (and this is not a flame as I think you are a great person) but BBW to me is not a term of enderament, I would much rather be called a beautiful woman.

No one likes generalizations - Thin, fit people are not automatically Ken and barbie, they are just as wonderful beautiful people as anyone else. Overweight people are not all lazy people who don't care about their appearance, anyone who has struggled with their weight knows what a nightmare it can be. Just because I have extra pounds does not mean I don't work out any more than being thin would automatically mean you are shallow.

We all have our own preference and our own ideal of what is attractive. I see no reason why you can't state that. If someone says they want HWP then I just think they are stating a preference, not judging anyone.

The reason we are going to see threads asking if it is okay to be overweight and swing is that when you have extra weight on you are treated differently and it is hard to be confident about yourself when other people treat you in a less then positive manner. I would hope that the purpose of this is not to bash thin folk and say they have less personality, but rather as an attempt to find out if there is any place for them (being the bigger person) in this 'lifestyle' or if there is anyone out there who is willing to make a connection with them.

Okay I am done rambling and I hope this makes some sense.

[2inVT]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

If overweight people are so happy, why do they persistently attack the non-fat with sweeping generalisations and flawed opinions as to our character and "shallowness"? What possible effect can extra body weight have on someones capacity to be "deep" and "nice" and "loving" and any of the other positive superlatives they invariably use to cover up their bodily insecurities? Why do fat people so often describe themselves as "cuddly"? We cuddle a lot. We're cuddly. A cuddle is an act of closeness and caresses - not a measurement of mass.

Not all overweight people persistantly attack the non-fat. Fat people describe themselves as cuddly because it's a more positive word than fat. Just because fat people are cuddly doesn't mean thin people aren't cuddly. You're sounding pretty defensive about this, and I'm not sure why.

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Why do the overweight contingent so often start threads that timidly ask questions like "Am I too fat to be a swinger?"; "Do any board-members like/prefer BBW's?" etc., etc.

For the most part, these threads are started by newbies. People concerned that they might not fit in with other swingers. They've seen profile after profile looking for "fit, HWP" people. They're looking for a little positive reinforcement that their body type is attractive to people. Who knows, maybe they've read your posts saying that you find overweight people unattractive and are wondering if that's a prevailing opinion.

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

If we contacted another couple we wouldn't say "hope Su being of mixed race is OK with you" or "hope Bud being white is not a problem" or "sorry Su's only a 32" bust size" ad infinitum. We would simply give our stats over and leave it up to them. We wouldn't hazard a pre-guess as to why the other couple might not be attracted to us. We're secure in ourselves and life's too short to concern ourselves with the inalienable fact that not everyone is gonna want to jump in the sack with either or both of us.

We never yet saw a thread on the lines of "Am I too fit to be a swinger?"

It would appear to be an insecurity issue on your part and perhaps a reason for your attempts to put us down in order to make yourselves feel better.

We simply describe ourselves, and send photos. We're also secure in ourselves, we realize that we are not to everyone's taste, and we'd rather not waste time setting up a meeting with people who aren't interested. And actually, I've seen quite a few threads talking about mixed race people and couples, in the same vein as the BBW threads.

[2inVT]

Prettylady makes some good points - though is it necessary to say that excessively overweight people disgust you? It works both ways. You wouldn't like it if someone said that overly muscled gym rats disgust them. ("Gym rat" is your wording, btw.)

Since this seems to be a real issue for you, why not start a thread talking about how attractive you find people who work out a lot?

I don't use the term "Barbie and Ken." It's overused. But, when I see it, I think more of personality than anything else. People who think they are perfect, and that anyone who isn't just like them isn't worth their attention.

We met people with this attitude - at one M&G, they refused to join the group at the table, and later commented about "So where are all the good-looking people?" The lady of this couple is thin, shapely - and has a face that would stop a clock. The man is good-looking, not in a particularly masculine way. They have lousy personalities. And they are the ones I think of when people talk about "Barbie and Ken."

[prettylady]

Originally Posted by 2inVT

Prettylady makes some good points - though is it necessary to say that excessively overweight people disgust you? It works both ways. You wouldn't like it if someone said that overly muscled gym rats disgust them. ("Gym rat" is your wording, btw.)

I also recall saying excssively skinny people too.
Why did you point out the gym rat was what I said. I know I said that.
The thing I find disgusting is people who don't take care of themselves. THIN OR FAT!!!!
This is a subject that should not be addressed at all. Fit people get offended when we are called ken and barbies. Or when we are told to stop complaining about being called shallow simply because society treats us better. (to save my ass, I don't treat people different based on size, only attitude. Did I cover alright)
And people who call themselves BBW get offended when fit people say they perfere other fit people, or what ever.
This is such a touchy subject that even if I had a laywer present to make sure I have used all the polically correct terms, someone is going to offence to something.
I pretty much give up here, I'm wrong no matter what I say, your wrong no matter what you say. It is a lost cause.
Skinny and Fat people will never see eye to eye as a whole. Again put in the disclaimer "as a whole" so you can't say I am grouping.
See what I mean it is a no win situation.
I'm done
Best wishes to you all
Your friend,
Prettylady

[prettylady]

OH ps to my last post.
I have been told that I disgust a woman because I have to much muscle. I am no where near muscle bound.
But it was her opinion. Did she need to say it? I really don't care.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[SuAndBud]

Just wish fat people would stop apologising. If you gotta say sorry why not do something about it.

It's the politics of (unreciprocated) envy at work, is all, when a fat person verbally attacks or inwardly despises their fitter, leaner cousins. Such despise, which we KNOW exists, is simply inverted feelings of unhappiness at their own malady.

There are a heck of a lot of happy (not meaning the "Ho ho ho" jolly type) fat people. There are a heck of a lot of unhappy lean people. We all share the planet, society and their respective joys and pains. But don't beat up on us in the manner of a layabout ne'r do well "keying" the limo he covets but can't imagine securing the wherewithall to own for him/herself.

Give us a happy and content fat person for company over a miserable sad lean person any day - for companionship.

Trust us to put a smile on the face of the leaner person in the sack.

Oprah and John Candy or Halle and Brad?

OK we've made our choices. Wonder how dissimilar they are to yours?

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Your pithy generalisations about people who's BMI is lower than that of your wife and your preferred body type is precisely the type of blinkered attitude of some overweight people or their afficionado's which prompted us to throw our 2Cents in to the discussion.

This is the exact type of response I referred to in my post.

If overweight people are so happy, why do they persistently attack the non-fat with sweeping generalisations and flawed opinions as to our character and "shallowness"? What possible effect can extra body weight have on someones capacity to be "deep" and "nice" and "loving" and any of the other positive superlatives they invariably use to cover up their bodily insecurities?

Now I didn't personally say that, in fact I said quite the opposite. However, as 2inVT refers to, Hollywood tends to stereotype the dumb, beautiful blonde and the lazy, ugly fat person.

Why do the overweight contingent so often start threads that timidly ask questions like "Am I too fat to be a swinger?"; "Do any board-members like/prefer BBW's?" etc., etc.

Because of how thicker people are seen. They are worried because they don't look like the women in porn movies and therefore won't be accepted into the lifestyle. Now why would they think that??? Where would they get that idea? Body insecurities don't come from nowhere. It is others that make them feel insecure about their body image.

If we contacted another couple we wouldn't say "hope Su being of mixed race is OK with you" or "hope Bud being white is not a problem"

But it's NOT okay to refer to race in a dergatory manner, however society makes it open season on "above-average" weight people. Once again, look a the movies. When was the last time you saw a chubbier person in a leading role or being portrayed in a positive manner?

We never yet saw a thread on the lines of "Am I too fit to be a swinger?"

And you never will, because of what I've said above.

It would appear to be an insecurity issue on your part and perhaps a reason for your attempts to put us down in order to make yourselves feel better.

Ha! Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am far from insecure about anything! However, when was the last time you sat and consoled your wife or husband because of mean things that were said about them because of their weight? Or they didn't get a job or were passed-up on a promotion by a less qualified woman that happened to be a skinny-Winnie with huge fake breasts?

I am not putting anybody down because they are average, fit, skinny, whatever. I pointed out the obvious. There is a difference between being funny and being mean. Men make rude comments and laugh at a size 16 woman at the Wendy's because she ordered a hambuger and get this...this is the punch line... wait, wait, here it comes... A DIET COKE! Oh my god isn't that funny! When was the last time a skinny person got laughed at for ordering a Diet Coke?

Originally Posted by prettylady

So I should just sit back, shut up and take the insults like a good Barbie.

Did I say that? No. Just the same I don't want to get jumped on when I don't sit back and let insults about my wife not being a size 5 roll of my back like water off a duck's. Nowhere in my post did I insult you for being skinny. Are you a Barbie based on my definition? I think not. Nowhere in my post did I say thin people are shallow, empty-headed, and stupid. I said, under my definition of "Barbie & Ken" shallow comes to mind... but you're not shallow or stupid because you have a BMI of 18. In fact, that doesn't make you a "Ken & Barbie". Weight has nothing to do with intelligence or personality.

Your comment suggests a double standard. It is alright to make fun of "barbie" but shut the hell up about BBW.

No, my comment said it is not okay to make fun of anybody because of weight. Now under my definition of Ken & Barbie... Well, if they want to be that way and hang with people just like them in physical appearance and general attitude about life, then so be it. I don't freaking care! It doesn't effect us. It does effect us though when these same people make rude and calloused remarks at the Wendy's or the mall about my wife being a size 14-16.

The difference is a stereotype vs. discrimination. A person with a BMI of 18 - 24 will never be discriminated against because of weight. 25 - 29 they may be. 30 and above they most certainly will be. Is that your fault for being skinnier? No. Is it the fault of society and the shallowness of the person discriminating against someone of larger size? Yes. But like I also mentioned, I'm sure they don't visit this board.

It is NOT ok to judge, tease or humiliate anyone.
At the risk of sounding like a dim witted Muscle head.
Its just not cool!

And I didn't. Was my post read, or just responded to in with a knee-jerk reaction.

You are right, it's not okay. I'll go out with business associates that don't know my wife and they'll make fun of chubby chicks and yes, it pisses me off. Just the same as making fun of one's race, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, political orientation, and yes even being too skinny offends me. I don't accept that kind of attitude. Making fun of anyone isn't cool. Period.

I'll say it once again... To me, "Ken & Barbie" is a state of mind... not a number on the BMI scale. There are bigger people that are jerks, there are skinny people that are jerks. I'm not saying you are a shallow "Ken & Barbie" because your skinny. However, every time I defend my wife's right to be a happy size 14-16 I get jumped on for being anti-skinny people. Where did I say I'm anti-skinny people?! I AM ONE! MY WHOLE SIDE OF THE FAMILY ARE SKINNY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM KEEPING WEIGHT ON! I get teased by my wife that I use the restroom and lose 5 pounds. I know both sides of the argument very well.

Mr. WS

[SuAndBud]

WS.

We suffer intolerance on an almost daily basis where we live due to Su's race and the fact that we're a mixed race couple. We see the nudges and the superscillious (can't spell that - lol) smirks and general disdain.

We used to suffer (well, Bud more so) positive intimidation due to Su's ethnicity and (perversely) barbed comments about her beauty and their seeming incredulity that she were not hanging off the arm of a movie star or millionaire as opposed to Bud.

One of the reasons Bud returned to the gym and took up hitting the bag again. Happily for us, it's generally paid off as his mere presence and obvious streetwise charm is now enough to intimidate them right back.

On another matter, you might wanna try this link http://www.recoilmag.com/editorial/n...left_0802.html (offered in friendship - not as a jibe). The guy has a point and it does tally with some of the observations you've also made about negative discrimination towards overweight people in the media. Dunno about the States or Canada, but we can't think of any BMI 30 News or other TV presenters in the UK except the odd one that got themselves established prior to putting on weight.

[Thkmlkchoclik]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

ThkMlkChkLik,

What do we mean by looking after our bodies?

Duhhh, a little excercise perhaps (really thought that was a "no-brainer" - but nevermind).

WesternSwing,

Your pithy generalisations about people who's BMI is lower than that of your wife and your preferred body type is precisely the type of blinkered attitude of some overweight people or their afficionado's which prompted us to throw our 2Cents in to the discussion.

If overweight people are so happy, why do they persistently attack the non-fat with sweeping generalisations and flawed opinions as to our character and "shallowness"? What possible effect can extra body weight have on someones capacity to be "deep" and "nice" and "loving" and any of the other positive superlatives they invariably use to cover up their bodily insecurities? Why do fat people so often describe themselves as "cuddly"? We cuddle a lot. We're cuddly. A cuddle is an act of closeness and caresses - not a measurement of mass.

Why do the overweight contingent so often start threads that timidly ask questions like "Am I too fat to be a swinger?"; "Do any board-members like/prefer BBW's?" etc., etc.

If we contacted another couple we wouldn't say "hope Su being of mixed race is OK with you" or "hope Bud being white is not a problem" or "sorry Su's only a 32" bust size" ad infinitum. We would simply give our stats over and leave it up to them. We wouldn't hazard a pre-guess as to why the other couple might not be attracted to us. We're secure in ourselves and life's too short to concern ourselves with the inalienable fact that not everyone is gonna want to jump in the sack with either or both of us.

We never yet saw a thread on the lines of "Am I too fit to be a swinger?"

It would appear to be an insecurity issue on your part and perhaps a reason for your attempts to put us down in order to make yourselves feel better.

Just an observation. We don't judge or dislike you if you're of a larger size. We just don't find you that physically attractive is all. Does that make us shallow? Is a gay guy "shallow" because he doesn't find girls attractive? No. Are you "shallow" because you find large breast, hips, tummies, ass's more attractive than skinny ones? No. Why then are we deemed shallow (but only by fat people) when the situation is reversed?

First of all If you go back and reread my post you'll see that I AGREED WITH YOU!! You and your mate have a right to your preference of who you want to lay up with!! I also said you don't have to aplogise for that.

The only problem I had with your post was that little statement you made. So when you see a overweight, fat, cuddly, obese person in the street you automatically think that they're that way because they don't take care of their bodies or don't care to take care of their bodies??? This is what I was trying to understand but from this comment right here

Duhhh, a little excercise perhaps (really thought that was a "no-brainer" - but nevermind).

It's obvious that's how you feel. So you must know ever fat, overweight, obese, cuddly person in the world?

I'm going to say this and be done with you because internet arguing is not my style.
I'm happy with myself. I've never been diagnosed with diabetes, high cholesterol., high blood pressure or any horrible problems that can be associated with being overweight. When I walk down the street or driving in my car, the last thing I got on my mind is "Wow she's sure is skinny she must work out alot" "I hate her because she's skinny" It's not that deep for me. The weight issue is not on my mind 24/7

I prefer coffee over tea. My husband prefer tea over coffee. Get where I'm coming from?? It's all about your own preference.

If overweight people are so happy, why do they persistently attack the non-fat with sweeping generalisations and flawed opinions as to our character and "shallowness"?

Isn't that what you do?? You see a overweight person and automatically thinks or he/she don't excercise

Why do fat people so often describe themselves as "cuddly"?

What's it to you?? How we describe ourselves is how we describe OURSELVES. So it's better if we describe ourselves as being "FAT"?? If us "FAT" people say you're skinny, we're wrong. No you're "FIT".

Just an observation, but from you post it just sounds like you're upset because most of the people in this thread prefer THICK!!

Why do the overweight contingent so often start threads that timidly ask questions like "Am I too fat to be a swinger?"; "Do any board-members like/prefer BBW's?" etc., etc.

Maybe they start them because of word like these....

overweight people

We don't judge or dislike you if you're of a larger size. We just don't find you that physically attractive is all.

but only by fat people

Us "FAT PEOPLE"(is that better?) should just accept the fact that "Skinny People" dont find us physically attrative. While "Skinny People can't accept the fact that us "FAT PEOPLE"(feel better now) don't find them physically attractive. As if to say "What do they mean we're not attractive?? What's not attractive about us?? We're in shape, we're fit, we workout everday, we eat right. How can they not find us attractive??

Now I'm done!!!!!!!!

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Now in the lifestyle she has never once been discriminated against EXCEPT by the Barbie and Ken's... and let me tell my definition of a Barbie and Ken. I am not talking about fit, attractive people with personality and open minds. I am talking about the superficial, self-absorbed, arrogant "it doesn't matter who I am, what matters is who I appear to be" type of people. Of course, they always tend to play within their own little circle anyway and never venture out beyond it, so they are not much of an issue to others. They also seem to be the ones who are looking mostly for girl-on-girl or are just at the club to be doing the new fad and they don't seem to be around long.

That to me is a Barbie and Ken. Barbie and Ken would not visit this Board. Barbie and Ken would have nothing really to say here. So to me, Barbie and Ken is more an attitude then a physical appearance - although Barbie and Ken's usually have a common "look" about them. To me it wouldn't seem much like swapping if the other woman looked just like my wife.

In defense of those that look like Barbie and Ken's but aren't... Like my wife says "it would be so much easier to hate you if you weren't so damn nice."

Mr. WS

Good post WS.

As you say, Ken and Barbie are defined by their attitude rather than their physiques. This means, in essence, that we can only diagnose Ken and Barbie by reading their minds - by knowing what they think about themselves and others. And, because Ken and Barbie are difficult to approach, we must accomplish this incredible mind reading feat with minimal person to person contact. If someone avoids us, we must assume we know what is on their mind. Quite a dramatic accomplishment...

I have been called Barbie in the past. I've been called Barbie on this board. The label doesn't really bother me - partially because I've never had any respect or admiration for the persons who have hurled the insult. (If Chicup or Thrax or Spoo called me Barbie, that might hurt. )

[intensity_too]

I'm pleasantly plump, I am attractive, I am sexy, I eat healthy and I work out.

But I am still fat.

Did I mention of have the most wonderful personality ever?

If my weight turns you off, that's your choice, but you never know what you may have missed.

Your loss.

(That's how I think. PMA people . . positive mental attitude.)

[WesternSwing]

Okay... now that I've cooled-off a bit and had time to think some, let me put it this way"

"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful."

Nobody has ever "hated" someone for being thin and beautiful. They may "admire" them. They may "envy" them. But they've never "hated" them. Envy is not good by nature and manifests itself in mean comments toward the one being envied, when in fact the ones making those comments really deep-down want to be just like the one they envy.

But I don't think anyone has ever "envied" an overweight person. Okay, maybe some skinny women with small breasts envy the natural cleavage of a larger women. But in general, mean-spirited comments made about larger people in general, and larger women specifically come from people who are bigoted and just plain mean. They serve no purpose other then to hurt someone else.

A big difference.

Now is this any one person's fault. No. It is a reflection of society. But, if 140 years and 6 generations after the Civil War we still can't get the issue of racial tollerance right, then what makes me think we can change people's minds about something as minor as body size. Like I said, I don't allow any intollerance around me, and I will continue to fight the good fight until I fix my little corner of the world.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

WS.

We suffer intolerance on an almost daily basis where we live due to Su's race and the fact that we're a mixed race couple. We see the nudges and the superscillious (can't spell that - lol) smirks and general disdain.

I can never tell you I totally understand, but I do know what you are referring to. My best friend and his wife are a mixed-race couple and I see the attitudes of those around them in their quiet little conservative neighborhood.

On another matter, you might wanna try this link http://www.recoilmag.com/editorial/n...left_0802.html (offered in friendship - not as a jibe). The guy has a point and it does tally with some of the observations you've also made about negative discrimination towards overweight people in the media. Dunno about the States or Canada, but we can't think of any BMI 30 News or other TV presenters in the UK except the odd one that got themselves established prior to putting on weight.

That was a great article. Thanks for the link!

Mr. WS

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

But I don't think anyone has ever "envied" an overweight person. Okay, maybe some skinny women with small breasts envy the natural cleavage of a larger women. But in general, mean-spirited comments made about larger people in general, and larger women specifically come from people who are bigoted and just plain mean. They serve no purpose other then to hurt someone else.

Tough love can help motivate an obese person to improve their health by lowering their body weight. Most critical commentary aimed at the obese does not have a tough love motive, however.