BBW sex or not?

[2jersey]

We think the term “lifestyle” is bogus as it is applied to swinging. Swinging isn’t our lifestyle – it is merely our haven for recreational sex. We are multi-faceted people - “vanilla” is our lifestyle, and we exhibit different tendencies in our normal/vanilla lives than we do when we are swinging.

In our vanilla lives – Appearance (within certain boundaries) is not very important to us and we are equally accepting of fit and fat people. We don't expect one group (fit or fat) to have consistently better personality traits than the other. Our vanilla friendships reflect our lack of body type bias – we have both fat friends and fit friends. (And a few friends who are slim enough to call us fat.)

In our swinging lives - We have seen fit bodies naked, and we have seen fat bodies naked - and we much prefer the look of fit bodies. If you have a fit body (and your general interests are compatible with ours), we screen for two additional features: 1) a nice face, and 2) a pleasant personality.

Our swinging protocol:
Fit body + nice face + pleasant personality = let’s get naked.
Fat body = we feel no need to get to discover your personality (unless we’re looking for a vanilla friend).

[Pepper & Drew]

Originally Posted by fitcouple

SuandBud, great post and also our thoughts too!. I always get a kick out of how open mined and nonshallow swingers pronounce themselves to be, then you hear the ken and Barbie trashing. Quite hypocritical.

We like what we like, period. We are a very fit couple, and like others who are into fitness/bodybuilding too! That doesn't mean that we don't like all folks or are mean or hurtfull to others who don't fit our idea of what is attractive. I know that my body type isn't attractive to many, and a more toned than a muscular body is thier liking, but who cares.

Nothing worse than a overweight person claiming to be so open minded, and a good person on the inside, and then Ken/barbie bashing comes out of thier mouths. It really makes one look pretty unattractive.

Pepper

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

Pepper

[ShellyM]

For the record, I'm not getting involved in this discussion lol.

[hubnher]

Absolutely prefer the "thicker" type form. Like the Mrs.

[telly2]

Hi.Mr Telly2 here.

I agree completely with Peppers comments,so I have to word this carefully.

There are bad apples in every bushel,and the adult community is no different.Some K&B types are shallow as a teaspoon,and others aren't.By the same token,there are "people of structure"that are truly open minded,and some who's minds are locked up tighter than Fort Knox.But what causes this to be?

Sometimes it's personal experience.We've only just opened ourselves to,as I call it,open board swinging(Not having a prior long-term friendship first),and our luck has not been good.Our first contact was an attractive "fit" couple.After a very promising 45min MSN conversation,we traded pics.Once the first pic of the Mrs. was transfered,we got"Oh.You're not our type.We only want attractive couples".Then they immediately went offline.Talk about a bad start.
If someone gets hit with enough shots like this,it can be difficult not to get resentful and fall into the stereotyping trap.The key is to remember that not everyone is the same.If one couple isn't interested,there must be another who is.

I'm actually surprised this question even came up.You'd think that anyone who could be open minded enough to enter the swing arena must be able to see the good in everyone despite body style.Attitude is what makes a person truly beautiful.


Before I get off my soapbox,I'll just summarize my comments.Don't let apperances decieve you and don't let 1 rotten apple spoil the bunch.

*hops off the box*

[Thkmlkchoclik]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Guess we're about to get shot down in flames.

We're not Ken and Barbie (Su's better looking than Barbie for a kick-off. Bud's less attractive facially than Ken).

Su's naturally petite. 5' and around 100lb. 32A/B breasts. Takes little conscious excercise but is very active and eats primarily vegetables and fish (for taste reasons, not because of any dietry fad).

Bud eats similar but also likes lean red meat and works out regularly at the gym. 5'10 and 150lb of muscle. Neither of us show our ribcage though and are not overly worried to have a layer of flesh on our bones.

Guess what? We have a GREAT time (between the sheets and otherwise). We can string a couple of words of more than one syllable together and can even smile, laugh and engage in serious or amusing conversations. If you met us you'd find Su in particular to be the life and soul of any party.

You don't have to be overweight to enjoy life to the full. The immortal words of Will Shakespear "methinks thou doth protest too much" springs to mind when reading some of the posts on this subject.

Apologies are extended if we don't fulfill the criteria as laid down by the majority of the respondents to this thread. Likewise if it's considered wrong and selfish of us to look after and cherish our bodies and health. No doubt we are to be damned eternally for actually being proud of our physical appearances.

And yes, we do generally (not always) find similar body types more physically attractive. A few extra pounds is fine, but we're just not attracted to fat (or skeletal, for that matter) body types. Our desires are our desires as are your own. We can no more change what we find attractive anymore than could a gay person.

A little more tolerance and understanding from the members would be cool (we are disappointed to have found such tolerance that we extend to those who are overweight appears not to be reciprocated).

It's a preference that's all. You prefer what you prefer. Nobody is knocking you for that and there is no reason for you to apologize.

I haven't read all the post in this thread.(pages 3 and 4). It's not that serious. If it don't apply let it fly. On message boards I've learned not to take things so seriously. It's cool you like them thin, slim, fit whatever it's all good.

Likewise if it's considered wrong and selfish of us to look after and cherish our bodies and health.

Ok, now what do you mean by this? On the internet it's easy to misunderstand something or take things out of context and I don't want to do that. So are you say BBW and BHM do not look after and cherish their bodies??

At the end of the day it's about respect for one another rather you're BBW, BHM, Thin, Slim, Skinny, way too skinny, fit whatever. I'm going respect you as long as you respect me. I like all people, I don't care what you look like but I do prefer to be with someone of my preference. It's not the end of the world people.

One more thing, even though I do prefer BHM, if a thin guy thinks he can handle me then by all means bring it on.

[Thkmlkchoclik]

Originally Posted by telly2

Hi.Mr Telly2 here.

I agree completely with Peppers comments,so I have to word this carefully.

There are bad apples in every bushel,and the adult community is no different.Some K&B types are shallow as a teaspoon,and others aren't.By the same token,there are "people of structure"that are truly open minded,and some who's minds are locked up tighter than Fort Knox.But what causes this to be?

Sometimes it's personal experience.We've only just opened ourselves to,as I call it,open board swinging(Not having a prior long-term friendship first),and our luck has not been good.Our first contact was an attractive "fit" couple.After a very promising 45min MSN conversation,we traded pics.Once the first pic of the Mrs. was transfered,we got"Oh.You're not our type.We only want attractive couples".Then they immediately went offline.Talk about a bad start.
If someone gets hit with enough shots like this,it can be difficult not to get resentful and fall into the stereotyping trap.The key is to remember that not everyone is the same.If one couple isn't interested,there must be another who is.

I'm actually surprised this question even came up.You'd think that anyone who could be open minded enough to enter the swing arena must be able to see the good in everyone despite body style.Attitude is what makes a person truly beautiful.


Before I get off my soapbox,I'll just summarize my comments.Don't let apperances decieve you and don't let 1 rotten apple spoil the bunch.

*hops off the box*

Beautiful post. If you don't mine I would like to use this...

Attitude is what makes a person truly beautiful.

in my siggy.
We should all remember that it is about a person attitude.

[Dooode]

Originally Posted by prettylady

Our Orgasm faces are just a goofy as anyone elses.

I loved everything else Prettylady had to say on the subject as well. Very nice!

I have to agree, so much is involved in creating chemistry between people, and body styles obviously has to play a part. I am not in disagreement with others being with those they find physically attractive. That's a big part of what this lifestyle is about.

I remember a couple who ran a lifestyles club in Las Vegas, who's criteria was that you HAD to pass a "physical attraction" application to enter the club. The club was strictly for "pretty people".

Seriously. Can you imagine having to pass a test on whether you were physically attractive enough to enter a club??!? I think that's a bit over the top. I can only imagine some ladies standing in a corner gossiping about someone's boob job.

[Thkmlkchoclik]

Originally Posted by Dooode

I loved everything else Prettylady had to say on the subject as well. Very nice!

I have to agree, so much is involved in creating chemistry between people, and body styles obviously has to play a part. I am not in disagreement with others being with those they find physically attractive. That's a big part of what this lifestyle is about.

I remember a couple who ran a lifestyles club in Las Vegas, who's criteria was that you HAD to pass a "physical attraction" application to enter the club. The club was strictly for "pretty people".

Seriously. Can you imagine having to pass a test on whether you were physically attractive enough to enter a club??!? I think that's a bit over the top. I can only imagine some ladies standing in a corner gossiping about someone's boob job.

Are you serious??!!! Get out of here!! That is just too much. Who is to say what or whom is pretty?

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

For the record, I'm not getting involved in this discussion lol.

I'm with you. The last time I defended my wife's right to be in the "overweight" zone of the body mass index it got real ugly with comments about "overweight" people being lazy and a drain on the healthcare system.

But, here I go nonetheless.

Like EvilMJ, my wife has been on both sides of the fence. In the Army she was the fittest she's ever been, and even then because she was a size 8 our government had her on the "fatty plan" throughout her career, and she looked awesome. She was so fit you'd never guess she was a size 4 much less an 8. GI Jane eat your heart out! Now her weight has leveled-off, she is a very happy and pleasing size 14-16 (not that big really), and yes, she is treated very, very differently then skinnier women by society in general, and employers in specific. Both of us are in the lending industry and I'll tell you, all the account executives from lenders calling on our brokerage are skinny little hotties. The lenders use sex to sell to lonely, horny brokers who actually think they may get lucky someday with one of them. My wife being "overweight" by the BMI standards would never get a job with a lender for the sheer fact she is not a size 4. I've NEVER seen a chubby account executive. Never.

We went to Victoria's Secret to find her a strapless bra (she's a 38C) and the nice 105 lb clerk told her they don't have stuff for "bigger" women like her and she might want to try one of the stores for bigger women, like Lane Bryant, then she bopped off to help a Barbie and Ken that walked in. A 32DD for skinny women with big boob jobs is there, but nothing for real women with real breasts. Mrs. WS almost broke down in tears. She was humiliated.

Thus, I always find it amusing when skinnier folk cry persecution. At least they have a better chance of getting employed and they never get moo'd at.

For the record... I am not "overweight" on the BMI. So my opinion is that of a "socially acceptable" person that has seen the torture my lovely wife has gone through because she shops at Lane Bryant and Torrid rather then Victoria's Secret and Express, Limited, Gap, or American Eagle Outfitters.

Now in the lifestyle she has never once been discriminated against EXCEPT by the Barbie and Ken's... and let me tell my definition of a Barbie and Ken. I am not talking about fit, attractive people with personality and open minds. I am talking about the superficial, self-absorbed, arrogant "it doesn't matter who I am, what matters is who I appear to be" type of people. Of course, they always tend to play within their own little circle anyway and never venture out beyond it, so they are not much of an issue to others. They also seem to be the ones who are looking mostly for girl-on-girl or are just at the club to be doing the new fad and they don't seem to be around long.

That to me is a Barbie and Ken. Barbie and Ken would not visit this Board. Barbie and Ken would have nothing really to say here. So to me, Barbie and Ken is more an attitude then a physical appearance - although Barbie and Ken's usually have a common "look" about them. To me it wouldn't seem much like swapping if the other woman looked just like my wife.

In defense of those that look like Barbie and Ken's but aren't... Like my wife says "it would be so much easier to hate you if you weren't so damn nice."

Mr. WS

[MoonLightKiss]

I agree with WS, being labeled a "Barbie & Ken" for us does not refer to size, but attitude. Its the shallow mindset of refusing to even acknowledge, and go so far as to make fun of someone not like them. The mindset of "Look at us, we are perfect...hahaha you aren't"

Personally, I have met people all over the world, being a military brat, and let me tell you, there are shallow people wearing a size 2 and shallow people wearing a size 20. There are also wonderful people on both ends of the fitness scale.

I also believe, everyone has their own preferences when it comes to playmates. Some men prefer blondes, some women prefer a man with smooth hands rather than rough ones. Some couples prefer other couples who are quite intelligent and can argue the phycological benefits of using the Fruedian technique of counseling and other couples prefer another couple who knows about Nascar. I don't really feel anyone should be called shallow because of their preferences. My size 16 might turn you off, but who knows, perhaps someone elses trait turns me off. Its called life and humanity. And I personally don't see anything wrong with having my own preferences as far as playmates, so I certainly can't be hypocritical and criticize anyone for preferring fit bodies. Its just a preference and their is nothing wrong with that.

[2inVT]

We have experienced being with people of different sizes. We have been turned down before because of our size, also. We've been turned down for other reasons, as well.

I'll admit that we're not apt to contact HWP couples or singles, unless their profile says that body size is not important. Why set ourselves up to be shot down? There are plenty of other folks who'd be more than happy to play with us. If we're contacted by HWP folks, great. Let's meet. We make it real clear that we're larger. Same as we make it clear that we smoke. Those things have been deal-breakers in the past, so best to get that out of the way.

I am a firm believer that it's not necessary to put down one type of people because you happen to prefer their opposite. I do not criticize or put down thin people.

But... I can understand where some of the backlash is coming from. How many BBWs do you see on TV or in the movies being portrayed as attractive? How many stores like Victoria's Secret sell sizes only for thin women? How many times do you see clothing that would look FABULOUS on larger women only sold in small sizes, and the larger size styles are just dowdy? And how many times do you see people saying that "fat is unattractive," "too lazy to take care of themselves," and so on?

Even the general things people say reflect this attitude. On another forum, I read a comment that said something like, "My hubby prefers to look at pictures of hotties. He is not interested in BBWs." Just a comment, with no intention of criticizing anyone - but it implies that larger women are not hotties.

It amuses me to see the HWP and thin folks pitch a fit over threads that praise BBWs. For pete's sake, probably 75% or more of the comments about what's hot and what's not, on the forums, talk about thinner, HWP body types. Why the resentment over someone praising a larger body type?

It's like the straight folks who feel the need to post negatively about bi-males in a bi-male thread. Like any topic, if you are not interested in what it's talking about, move on.

[SuAndBud]

ThkMlkChkLik,

What do we mean by looking after our bodies?

Duhhh, a little excercise perhaps (really thought that was a "no-brainer" - but nevermind).

WesternSwing,

Your pithy generalisations about people who's BMI is lower than that of your wife and your preferred body type is precisely the type of blinkered attitude of some overweight people or their afficionado's which prompted us to throw our 2Cents in to the discussion.

If overweight people are so happy, why do they persistently attack the non-fat with sweeping generalisations and flawed opinions as to our character and "shallowness"? What possible effect can extra body weight have on someones capacity to be "deep" and "nice" and "loving" and any of the other positive superlatives they invariably use to cover up their bodily insecurities? Why do fat people so often describe themselves as "cuddly"? We cuddle a lot. We're cuddly. A cuddle is an act of closeness and caresses - not a measurement of mass.

Why do the overweight contingent so often start threads that timidly ask questions like "Am I too fat to be a swinger?"; "Do any board-members like/prefer BBW's?" etc., etc.

If we contacted another couple we wouldn't say "hope Su being of mixed race is OK with you" or "hope Bud being white is not a problem" or "sorry Su's only a 32" bust size" ad infinitum. We would simply give our stats over and leave it up to them. We wouldn't hazard a pre-guess as to why the other couple might not be attracted to us. We're secure in ourselves and life's too short to concern ourselves with the inalienable fact that not everyone is gonna want to jump in the sack with either or both of us.

We never yet saw a thread on the lines of "Am I too fit to be a swinger?"

It would appear to be an insecurity issue on your part and perhaps a reason for your attempts to put us down in order to make yourselves feel better.

Just an observation. We don't judge or dislike you if you're of a larger size. We just don't find you that physically attractive is all. Does that make us shallow? Is a gay guy "shallow" because he doesn't find girls attractive? No. Are you "shallow" because you find large breast, hips, tummies, ass's more attractive than skinny ones? No. Why then are we deemed shallow (but only by fat people) when the situation is reversed?

[prettylady]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Thus, I always find it amusing when skinnier folk cry persecution. At least they have a better chance of getting employed and they never get moo'd at.Mr. WS

So I should just sit back, shut up and take the insults like a good Barbie.
I understand that being thin does give me a better chance at alot of things, and I wont appologise for that it is not my fault.
I am very often concidered less intellegent because I am a gym rat. Apparently working out is all I do and all I care about. Being in the gym means you can't possibly know anything else. The words Muscle Head comes to mind.
Your comment suggests a double standard. It is alright to make fun of "barbie" but shut the hell up about BBW.
The only time I am bothered by someone with wieght is when it is excessive. You know they are not healthy. Sometimes I am concerned by their wieght, sometimes I am discusted. Depends on how well people take care of themselves. Same goes for extremly skinny girls. We have one at the gym now who is giving off a terrible smell because she is anorexic.
It is NOT ok to judge, tease or humiliate anyone.
At the risk of sounding like a dim witted Muscle head.
Its just not cool!

Your friend,
Prettylady