stating a perkier tit preference during play

[lindyswing]

Here's the scenario: A woman in an open relationship plays with a new, very good and very compatible casual sex partner outside of her primary relationship. During their first encounter, she suspected that he didn't like her tits. But then during the second time she played with him, he was paying her tits so much attention, she happily remarked, "I thought you didn't like my tits, but you've been playing with them so much, I'm beginning to think you do like them." He then says, "I generally prefer tits that are smaller and perkier, but they're skin and all skin is good skin."

If you were this woman, how would you feel about this guy saying this and how would you respond? What types of feelings and responses do you think would be appropriate and reasonable for the woman to have?

Would you think it is reasonable for this to hurt her feelings? For her to be in stunned silence? For her to need to be reassured that she is physically attractive to him in some way? That he's not just settling for her and her non-perky tits because she's willing to have sex with him? For her to need to hear that he thinks she's pretty?

Alternatively, would you think it is reasonable for her to think that comment was so insensitive that he doesn't deserve to have sex with her?

Or do you think the only mature response would be continuing with the play and regarding the comment as no big deal because she has accepted her saggy tits as one of her physical flaws?

[Lovinlife59912]

In my humble opinion this is what I think: I am assuming that you have a mate that loves you and everything about you thats why he married you, relish that.
If you are out playing, hopefully your doing it for the sexual gratification, not to fill a void in your life like self esteem. You had an inkling that this other guy may not have been attracted to a feature of yours but it sounds like it didn't detour him from what he was after, complimenting you was not what he was looking for in the situation.
You went fishing for compliments and didn't like the outcome but I'm sure that guy compliments his wife or girlfriend if he has one because of love for that person. Leave the complimenting and sensitivity to feelings for your spouse who loves you and everything about you including any flaws (your spouse may think they're not flaws) and leave the enjoyment of extra sexual enjoyment to the friend.

[sereneiders]

Loving,

I disagree. This is the sort of scenarios where honesty isn't wellcomed, unless being COMPLETELLY honest.

We hardly will find out mates whose features, all of them, fit our tastes, we all know other people playing with us feels the same: there are features they like from us betther than others, they may even dislike one feature but there are so many other enjoyable things that we don't care.

This guy have to know he's with a person, that if she makes such a comment she's exposing her own boddy issues, it is supposed both of them are there to enjoy each other and to please each other, and taking care of each other self confidence is something required to please each other. Giving a shit about your partner self confidence tells your partner you're there only for your own pleasure.

Facing this question this guy have two possible attitudes: to lie or to be COMPLETELLY honest. The first one is obvious "you were wrong the other day, I really like your tits", the second one would be to say the same, but ALSO to say which other features are the one that attracted him in the first place, as to reasure her self confidence.

THis guy was blunt and careless. He deserved her to give to him her knees to suck because "skin is skin" and he proved it'd be the same to suck the perfect model's boobs, the saggy ones, or her knees.

He wasn't there with a piece of meat to fuck and play with, he was there with a person who deserves her feelings to be respected, who deserves the same care his own wife deserve, OR EVEN MORE because she is NOT his wife and he doesn't know her well enough as to know in wich ways his "honesty" could hurt her feelings (supposing such a blunt guy indeed knows what could hurt his own wife).

Indeed, this guy doesn't deserve to have sex with her... Moreover, he doesn't deserve to have sex with anyone else (nor even his wife, if he ever managed to have one), instead to jack off until learning some basic manners.

I hope I made my point clear.

[OttawaCuple]

Dito to Sereneiders.

Lindyswing, if it were me he said that to, there would be no third encounter.

MrsOttawaCuple

[LOL_OMG]

This guy obviously hasn't been around women much.

The answer to "does this make my butt look fat?" really isn't "you betcha."

If that were me I would have been tempted to say, "yeah, well I usually like to have sex with a guy who has a decent sized cock too...but they were all busy today."

Mrs

[good times]

She asked, if she did not want an honest answer, why did she ask in the first place?

I am one of those people that are sometimes accused of being overly honest. If someone asks me a question, I naturally assume they want an honest answer. In this case, I think the guy might have been a little more tactful, but I disagree that he should lie to her out of respect for her feelings, or any other reason, she did ask after all. As we see on this board all the time, if someone asks a question, their is no guarantee they are going to like the answer. In this case, he was asked and stated his preference and then attempted to convert it to a positive and let her know that he was satisfied with her nonetheless. That the way he said it sounds somewhat bad could mean nothing more than it was not interpreted the way he intended or that it just came out wrong in the heat of the moment.

To answer the question, I think that she should consider the way this guy treats her overall and not dwell on this one statement.

[good times]

Originally Posted by LOL_OMG

The answer to "does this make my butt look fat?" really isn't "you betcha."

It isn't? I hate these trick questions.

[JnCC]

It was a cheesy comment, and yea, I don't see how it couldn't hurt her feelings to some extent.

Most guys have no idea how sensitive women are to comments about their bodies, appearance, etc...especially women over 40, or who have had children. Some guys have a habit of engaging their "mouths" before their "brains" have come up to operating speed, and as a result, they stall out in the seduction department.

I seriously doubt that his comment was intended to hurt you the way that it did. Is it possible that this guy is just a well-meaning oaf, with poor verbal skills?

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by lindyswing

...During their first encounter, she suspected that he didn't like her tits. But then during the second time she played with him, he was paying her tits so much attention, she happily remarked, "I thought you didn't like my tits, but you've been playing with them so much, I'm beginning to think you do like them."

All he had to say was "I'm enjoying your tits very much" and give you a wonderful smile.

You didn't ask him what he thought of your tits, so I think you said things just right. You let him know that you noticed how he didn't pay attention to your tits the first time and now that he was, you were liking it. He should have learned something from that. Instead, he said a stupid thing.

Whether you play again or not is up to you. I wouldn't drop a guy for one verbal screw up, guys tend to be good at making those.

Look at the bigger picture, if the play relationship has many more positives than negatives, you might be able to overlook his clumsy mistake.

LM

[lovefest04]

Guys, there's a lesson here for all of us.

When your significant female other half is with you on a long drive and asks you if you're thirsty, and suggests that you could pull off up ahead and get a cool drink...She's thirsty or has to pee. Pull over...

Likewise, when a woman asks about her body, she's not looking for criticism.

I agree it was a rude answer and uncalled for.

If you haven't got something nice to say, keep quiet.

Should you play with him again? I don't know. Was he good? Was he respectful? Maybe he just said "1 mean thing", but otherwise is a great guy. If so, tell him, some of us men need to be awakened.

S

[balearsun]

With all due respect, I think a big deal is being made of what seems like an honest answer.
Someone posted earlier that guys are quite adept at sticking their foot in their mouth and, being one of those guys, I can say it is true. That, however, doesn't mean the guy in question was being rude or disrespectul, and the second encounter probably proves this point, since he was being so attentive.
Also, if someone doesn't want to hear a truthful answer to their question, why ask it in the first place?
Listen ladies, some of us males don't have the intelligence make up to play mind games, especially when interacting with you, loveliest women. When you say no, that means no, right? It doesn't mean maybe, it doesn't mean try harder. So, please give us a break. Mind reading belongs on a stage, not in the bedroom.

[lindyswing]

Some additional clarification of the situation--and I'll admit: I am the woman.

First, my primary partner and I tend more towards polyamory than strictly recreational swinging. I have an intense romantic crush on this guy, and it's ok that I feel this way. Second, I'm a feminist. These issues are both personal and political to me....I can't help but make a big deal out of it when men have narrow beauty standards.

The reason why I suspected that he didn't like my tits: The first time we played, I shared that I had lost 55 lbs in the last 2 years. He responded to this by telling me that he could tell because of my loose skin and then he pulled on my breast. I told him that in fact my breasts have always been this shape, but I did not let on that his comment hurt my feelings.

The way I actually responded during the second encounter:
-Stunned silence while he continued to caress me but said nothing
-I then apologized to him for saying what I said--I was a little teary I admit. The reason I apologized: if I had been thinking straight, I could have predicted that he was likely to say something brutally honest that would hurt my feelings and offend my politics beyond what I could suppress, given his comment during our first play time.
-I specifically asked for reassurance that he is honestly attracted to me and why. He refused to answer why because he's not into giving compliments. We ended up having a long discussion in which I explained that there are men who are willing to settle for sex with women they don't actually find attractive because many more men want uncommitted sex than do women, and if we were to continue playing, I needed some reassurance that he's not just settling for me because he can't get anyone else. We continued discussing body image issues; the fact that he is a leg man, not a breast man; if he's ever in this situation in the future, whether he should try to say something more diplomatic; whether I have a healthy self-esteem; etc, etc, etc. I found it to be a respectful discussion even though we disagree and have different perpectives about many things. He finally came up with a compliment about my sexiness...and man, it was some compliment...totally genuine, totally knocked my socks off. The evening culminated in me in front of a mirror telling him all the things I love about my looks; then we fucked in front of said mirror while I went on and on about how hot I am and that he's crazy not to like my breasts. It was totally hot. I also found it rather therapeutic.

I just got back from spending a third incredible weekend with him. What I was trying to get feedback on in my first post is this new issue: He thinks my response during our second weekend together was unreasonable and immature. If I were a mature person I would have accepted my breasts as flaws long ago and what he said in the second encounter would be no big deal, whereas I think:
1) I responded very very reasonably
2) at the time he made the comment, it would be reasonable behavior for a woman to decide that he's too insensitive to deserve to be her sex partner [even though ultimately I did not do this]
3) my breasts aren't flaws and what's healthy and mature is to recognize their beauty and sexiness

So many of you seem to agree with me, but some of you don't...for anyone still paying attention to this thread, does the additional info change any of your minds or trigger any other thoughts?

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by good times

She asked, if she did not want an honest answer, why did she ask in the first place?

I am one of those people that are sometimes accused of being overly honest. If someone asks me a question, I naturally assume they want an honest answer. In this case, I think the guy might have been a little more tactful, but I disagree that he should lie to her out of respect for her feelings, or any other reason, she did ask after all. As we see on this board all the time, if someone asks a question, their is no guarantee they are going to like the answer. In this case, he was asked and stated his preference and then attempted to convert it to a positive and let her know that he was satisfied with her nonetheless. That the way he said it sounds somewhat bad could mean nothing more than it was not interpreted the way he intended or that it just came out wrong in the heat of the moment.

To answer the question, I think that she should consider the way this guy treats her overall and not dwell on this one statement.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

There are moments for everithing, you have to know when something that would fit otherwise should be muted. And you gave the perfect example: this board. People doesn't post here while in the middle of the action, they do it before or afterwards, when they're in the mood to take the truth.

If we were changing the scenario, let say, they were drinking a coffee afterwards and at that time she ask the question, just then the honest and cold hearted answer COULD fit.

Let's suppose you're having intercourse with a lady, she's moaning because of how you move, you dare to ask her if she likes your cock, and she chuckles and says "well... it could be thicker, but a cock is a cock anyway". I don't know you, but I bet most the guys around would loose the erection unless on Viagra (it would happen to me for sure, even with Viagra), even when anyone of us would feel ok to hear the same lady, in any other scenarios, say that they like thicker cocks, and adding something else allowing you to feel appreciated for you to have a second time.

I know there are people (most notoriously, guys) who wouldn't care their partners oppinion and would enjoy the fuck, as it says the expression "sex is like a pizza, either good or bad is good". Well, bad pizzas doesn't deserve to be eaten, and the same happens with bad sex: it's better to avoid it at all. Feeding people's self steem is something that makes the difference between good and bad sex, just because the main sexual organ is our brain, and good sex requires your brain to be properly amused.

And amusing your brain is just a game, and as often happens in games, you do "as if" a couple of things were true, wheter they're actually true or not. There is an ilusion involved that have to be feed by everyone involved, the "as if" meta-rule forbids people from reminding you in the middle of the game about the "raw truth from reality". Who doesn't understand this is a bad player, one able to spoil the fun for everyone around because of being aware of "more important things" (like honesty) than the game itself, even when outside the game everyone would agree about these "more important things".

As for me, when I am in bed, I WANT people to LIE TO ME. I don't want to know right there what they think about the extra pounds I have, even when I would valuate their oppinion ANOTHER TIME.

I am playing "as if" I were Superman, tying a towel from my neck and hanging it backwards "as if" it were able to fly because of that, making the noise of the wind with my own mouth to enhance the flying effect. I am not doing that expecting the gal next to me (who's supposed to dress as Wonder Woman) to laugh at me, nor to tell me to stop making those silly noises because I am not flying, nor how stupid I look with my towel (even when later on I may laugh at my silly noises and the picture of myself with that towell), because if she does so, then SHES NOT PLAYING, or at least we're not playing the same game. So, should she makes such a comment, I'd handle my silly towel to her, and invite her to play alone just because she doesn´t know how to play The Justice League game. When wearing my silly towell, if I ask people "how far I could go flying", I don't want them to remind me I cannot fly by telling me "well... three steps ahead before crushing your head against the floor".

For me, it's that simple.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by lindyswing

So many of you seem to agree with me, but some of you don't...for anyone still paying attention to this thread, does the additional info change any of your minds or trigger any other thoughts?

Yes, it changes mine because of what I said in my first post (to either lie or to be completelly honest). If he was up to reasure your self confidence by telling you what's what he actually likes from you, along with the things he dislike, then it is ok.

In the other hand, I missunderstood the scenario, thinking that he made this comment right on the middle of the action, wich doesn't seems to be the case here.

But I stick to my toughts and my "political viewpoint" . You added information that changed the original context. At last, I think this have to do with the values your embrance the most, and that's something very personal.

For example, there are many things that actually make women atractive for me, altough most of them have less to do with the physical aspect and more with the whole person and her sesuality.

But I am aware that I could be seen by you as one of those men "who are willing to settle for sex with women they don't actually find attractive because many more men want uncommitted sex than do women", so let me tell you my perspective about this.

I can tell that, "ideally", I may preffer the same woman with other set of tits, an ass with certain shape, other colour of eyes and hair, but let suppose I were God for that moment as to be able to make my wishes happen to make her resemble my "ideal sex partner", what would I get from this? Would I actually be with "someone else"? Wouldn't that be a way to jack off?

I find challenging, fun and attratcive are these things that doesn't perfectly fit my wishes, or "ideal features", because those things are the ones that makes me be with "someone else", that makes me "do" a woman (this person, this woman) instead of "doing" my fantasized woman.

Certainly there are features I like that she may have, and the combination of these features I like, and these features that doesn't fit my "ideal combination", is what I believe does it to me.

If I were looking for the "perfect fantasized mate", I wouldn't be swinging, because this is something money could get you. What I get this way is something money wouldn't be able to buy (besides, I have no money for such a luxury ).

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by balearsun

Listen ladies, some of us males don't have the intelligence make up to play mind games, especially when interacting with you, loveliest women. When you say no, that means no, right? It doesn't mean maybe, it doesn't mean try harder. So, please give us a break. Mind reading belongs on a stage, not in the bedroom.

Well, it's not a matter of "intelligence" (well, it's required some intelligence), just of knowledge of who are you dealing with.

You talk about "mind games" as if they were sneaking around setting a weird scenario where to trap you. The fact is, women are from Venus, we're from Mars, and no one can perfectly grasp what happens in each other minds.

From the few I understand from Venus, these "mind games" are genuine toughts and feelings women naturally have. Moreover, self steem issues are shared both by women and men, even when sometimes these issues may run trough different rails.

If you cannot understand the difference from the "no means no" statement and what happens here, I'd say you'll have troubles dealing with the opposite sex in any other way than yelling a "listen ladies" complain when you don't get it.

You don't need any mind reading skill, for now I'll give you a basic formula: keep your mouth shut, try to figure out the effect your words could have in your partner, count to ten, thing again, and just if you're SURE about the outcome, speak up your toughts. If the outcome doesn't fit your expectations anyway, don't wimp, insthead pay attention and learn.

It's like football (well, what you call football), you don't need mind reading skills to know where some guy will throw the pass, you just need to know the game dynamics and be aware of where are the players over the field to figure out.

If you care about women as much as you do about football, you will learn.