ED situation - what's a gal to do?

[Pepper & Drew]

If it were us? It would depend on how much we enjoyed their company out of bed. If they were really good friends (which I kinda doubt since you all are still feeling uncomfortable with each other), we'd give it another go, since it seems to be all about nervousness. If they were just marginally friends, I think maybe we'd tell them that all though we can be friends, we're not compatible....yadda, yadda, yadda....

We don't like people who are constantly fishing for compliments or make a big deal about things that may happen during the course of swinging. To me, the bottom line is do you think this is temporary while you get more aquainted or do you see this happening again and again? That would give us our answer.

Pepper

[Chip_n_Muffy]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

LOL!!!!!!!

I picture the little golden guy on top of the trophy, sporting an erection.

The Golden Phallus Award? I can see Hollywood getting on board with this! Limos! Red carpets! Starlets in designer dresses! Celebrity MCs! I see opportunity here, anyone with a few million front money wanna help out? We can all get rich and retire!


Chip

[Tybee Swing]

Funny Chip n Muffy!

Update: We emailed them. I drafted something up, hubby and I went over it together, and he thought it was perfect. It's very straight-forward.

We do all get along great and always have the best times together, aside from this problem. Hubby and I would like to keep their friendship and are willing to move backward to soft swing with them, or even just see them socially. We are comfortable with them and they are comfortable with us, except regarding this one issue. And that's his discomfort with his ED overshadowing the whole foursome.

So, we're putting it in their ballpark and see where they want to hit the ball.

[Amanda69]

Sounds like the perfect way to handle it both honest and sensitive at the same time...well done. I hope they understand and respond in kind.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Funny Chip n Muffy!

Update: We emailed them. I drafted something up, hubby and I went over it together, and he thought it was perfect. It's very straight-forward.

We do all get along great and always have the best times together, aside from this problem. Hubby and I would like to keep their friendship and are willing to move backward to soft swing with them, or even just see them socially. We are comfortable with them and they are comfortable with us, except regarding this one issue. And that's his discomfort with his ED overshadowing the whole foursome.

So, we're putting it in their ballpark and see where they want to hit the ball.

Good luck, Tybee Swing! I'm following your thread with interest. We have played twice with a couple whom we like very much. The gentleman has had ED problems both times. Next time we see them, I'm going to get Mr. Fuse to do what your husband did the first time and see if it helps. Thanks for posting about that.

They don't have the drama you described, but the guy seems to have self-image issues, or doesn't think he's good enough or something. This is completely unfounded from my point of view. I have no idea why a charming, gorgeous guy would feel that way, but that's another subject entirely...We've all agreed that next time, we need lots of social time before we play. I'm relaxed about the situation, because I have a good time regardless -- I just want him to be able to enjoy himself too! He said a few things that indicate this happens to him with a new playmate, and it just requires time for him to stop being nervous.

Please let us know how your situation turns out!

[2nten]

We had this problem with our friends. They were close friends, so we decided to take a break from swinging with them. After over a year, we have started back with girl/girl, but my wife wants nothing to do with him. He always got real upset with his ED which cause my wife to dislike him. He was also always full of drama when we played.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Good luck, Tybee Swing! I'm following your thread with interest. We have played twice with a couple whom we like very much. The gentleman has had ED problems both times. Next time we see them, I'm going to get Mr. Fuse to do what your husband did the first time and see if it helps. Thanks for posting about that.

They don't have the drama you described, but the guy seems to have self-image issues, or doesn't think he's good enough or something. This is completely unfounded from my point of view. I have no idea why a charming, gorgeous guy would feel that way, but that's another subject entirely...We've all agreed that next time, we need lots of social time before we play. I'm relaxed about the situation, because I have a good time regardless -- I just want him to be able to enjoy himself too! He said a few things that indicate this happens to him with a new playmate, and it just requires time for him to stop being nervous.

Please let us know how your situation turns out!

Thanks, Fuse! I appreciate it. I don't feel so alone when others here can relate.

This guy seems to have self-image problems due to the ED, too - like he's not good enough, inadequate, holding everybody back. Like you said about the guy you know, this man is socially charming, fun, handsome, tall, athletic. He IS holding things back, but it's NOT the ED doing it, it's his panic and his reactions to the ED. He can't help ED and has to work with it or around it (I understand). But, he certainly could help (and change) his own outlook and how he chooses to react -- especially in mixed company.

I think he compares himself with my husband in a negative way, more reflection on bad self-image with him. He's constantly calling him the stud, saying he needs to get lessons from him, how he admires him, things like that. I think that makes my hubby a little uncomfortable. I think there is a package comparison going on as well in this guy's mind - my hubby is bigger, and much bigger in girth. But hey, differences are to be expected in the Lifestyle, correct? He has to get over it and deal with it.

In the email, I said in several different ways that it wasn't the ED, it was his reaction to it and how that makes others uncomfortable. I knew he'd have to hear it every way I could say it, or his warped perspective would only hear, "my ED is screwing everything up". So, I really tried to communicate this very well - that it wasn't the ED, it was his responses (nerves, panic, frantic behavior, not snapping out of it and just moving on with something else).

He wrote back thanking us for the honesty, apologizing profusely. He said this: "I was so uptight about holding the fun back and causing everyone else to lose the fire of the moment that I panicked. I was not speaking of the night as a total strike out, it was my feeling that I had thrown ice on a great night."

Still, a warped perspective, because the action never stopped except for brief moments (naturally), and this man came twice - and hard! Once in his wife, once in me with a condom. How can a 40+ man think this was a strike-out and he messed up the evening??????? I am completely baffled by the way he thinks of it. His attitude is really turning me off.

They want to continue as we have been, not rolling it back to soft or just social. He said: "I let my male ego and fixation on a personal trouble spot create tension no one needs. We understand that no one needs drama and trouble in an adult relationship. It is supposed to be drama free and exciting. So forgive me and lets have fun."

It's not about "forgiveness" - geez. It's about trying to figure out where we can all be comfortable, together. I don't see him becoming instantly confident, relaxed and fun about everything just overnight.

Thoughts, anybody? I think we need to roll back to at least soft with this couple and give it some time.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by 2nten

We had this problem with our friends. They were close friends, so we decided to take a break from swinging with them. After over a year, we have started back with girl/girl, but my wife wants nothing to do with him. He always got real upset with his ED which cause my wife to dislike him. He was also always full of drama when we played.

Thanks for sharing this, 2nten. I agree with the need for a break.

Question for you: since the time in the past when he would get so upset in the moment when swinging before, have you learned if he's got a better grip on it now? Has he learned to not get so upset in the swinging setting?

[2nten]

He would get really upset when ED happen, but is a cool guy otherwise. We have only had one experience in the last cpl of years, after him getting upset like 4 or 5 times in a row, and it was just girl/girl. He did not get upset then, but he was only with his wife. My wife really wants nothing to do with him sexually, because of his reaction and not the ED. I don't think we will ever full swap with them again, but never know. Good luck with this and remember friends are more important than swing partners.

[lovedoctor]

I'd give it a couple more times and see how the situation plays out. If he continues to make everyone uncomfortable, then you know what you have to do. If it's just a momentary glitch, he will get through it. We all have more drama in our minds than what is actually happening. If you enjoy them, give it a little time.

Good luck!

[Tybee Swing]

Thanks, lovedoctor. Due to his reactions both in the bedroom (2 months now) and his email responses, it's just all very uncomfortable and we (hubby and I) decided to pull it back to friendship, fun, flirting, and if the mood strikes, soft swing. Maybe this will take the pressure off of him enough that he'll have time to get comfortable again. We don't know if he'll ever get over the stress that goes on in his head, but regardless, pulling it back should solve the problem, we feel. At least, between us and them. He'll have his own personal problem-solving to do.

[JM153]

Tybee,
It looks like you and hubby have decided how to handle your situation, but I thought I would throw in my two cents for anyone else. I have been in your friend's position, that is, experiecing ED in swinging situations. ED can be caused by physical or mental issues or both. A man who is experiencing ED on more than an issolated basis should get the physical checked out by a sex friendly Doctor. Assuming that it does not arise from a physical issue then it is mental. There are so many possibilites of what mental issues are causing it that one can't guess. He may or may not know. Now he can deal with that with therapy or in some other manner. But his worying about "is it or is it not" going to work is a sure way for it not to work. It is like my telling you to not think about an elephant - you immediately think about an elephant. So telling him not to think about it or worry about it doesn't prevent his from doing so and the problem gets worse not better. Now I have been through all of that. So here is my advice based on what I think would work for me if I were him. For the four of you to sit down and talk about what "YOU" want from him. From reading your posts I get that you enjoyed the penetration, but it was not necessary for you to enjoy playing with him. If that is correct tell him. Tell him that no one should plan on his penetrating you or getting hard. The two of you should plan on it being oral and whatever else gets you and he off. He apparantly listens to you and wants to do it the way you like it (Which may be different from some other lady he has been with). He is still going to feel like he is failing you and, you can give him a real gift, if you let him know he is not and that he is a good lover, etc. Or if penetration is important to you, tell him you want him to bring the pump and teach you how to use it to get him up. If you and your hubby treat it like it is no big deal and you are not judging him, then, in time, he will stop worrying about it and it may arise on it's on and you may just find him penetrating you when your were not expecting it.
Sorry for the long post, and I hope this helps you are others in a similar situation.
JM

[Tybee Swing]

Hi JM,

Thank your for your thoughtful reply. What you suggested is just exactly the way hubby and I have handled the communicating. We've told them that we value the friendship and fun we have with them, we're not stopping anything, just stepping back to the way it was the first time we were together, soft swing and fun times in general (we really enjoy going out and socializing with this couple, too). This was all to take the erection pressure off of him and make it just fun, for everybody.

Still, he's misunderstanding and not taking it very well. In his last email he said:

"I had no idea that my attempt to be honest and communicate my feelings and frustration would be so devastating. My purpose was to be just that open. I did not mean to make you uncomfortable to the point that we put the breaks on our adult encounters. I must apologize for creating this situation."

We don't feel that taking things back a notch with the play, but continuing, should be considered "devastating". I feel his response to this is dramatic. I made it light and easy (like it's just a slight shift, no big deal, and can go back to full in the future). We've told him every which way how we enjoy him/them, and we're not cutting things off. Also, he doesn't get it that it's not that he said something about the ED, it's how he was in the room when we were all together...totally stressed out, panicky, sweating with nerves, etc. We already knew there was a problem that was uncomfortable for everybody (not the ED; his feelings). He didn't have to tell us. We would have brought it up if he hadn't. But, now he's apologizing for ever bringing it up.

We haven't replied to this, yet. It feels like beating a dead horse, trying to convince him this isn't "devastating" to our friendship and fun, etc. He seems to be so dramatic about it.

Also, he DID perform sexually the last time we were together. The man had intercourse with two women (me and his wife), and came twice within a couple of hours. There are younger men who would envy this. And still he thinks he's inadequate, or something??? This is just confusing and dramatic, to me. The more dramatic he is about it, the less inclined I am to want to be with him in the future.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks!

[JM153]

This has to be frustrating to you. Many would say this is way too much drama and he is too caught up in his feelings of inadequacy to try to play with.

I think his mindset is that if he doesn't get it up he is a failure in pleasing you. He is embarrassed and thinks that you really are not being truthful. That maybe the real reason you are inviting them to continue is you want to play with his wife or for some reason other than him. Of course, this is not very rational (as you say he did get off twice and you got off as well) and if he is a logical rational person he is going to realize that soft swing is inconsistent with just wanting his wife. I know in my case, I have a belief that while I am great with my hands and do a wonderful job with oral, at the end of the day it is my sword that women want. So when it doesn't work I am going to think (and in some case accurately) I leave her wanting. So if a woman says "it doesn't matter, it happens, etc." -- that sort of thing -- I want to believe her - but I don't. I have had a few in that situation that kept inviting us back and indicating that they wanted to play with me -- consistent with what they said - not what I thought! After awhile I have to think, "OK this woman doesn't really need the penetration to have fun" and when my second head begins to believe she doens't care about him- and the pressure is off he says I want to play too. I don't understand how this works, but I can put so much pressure on myself that I guarantee failure and then it becomes a self fulfiling prophecy. And of course we don't know what his wife is saying to him. She may be helping or demanding. If she is telling him things like "We are not going to be able to swing unless you get it up" then the poor guy is probably doomed. I think you have done what you can.

If I were in your situation and wanted to give it one more try, I would invite them over to play the same as before (full swap - same bed) with no expectations of penetration and tell him that whether he gets it up or not doesn't matter, but if he starts appologizing then you are going to throw his ass out. Tell him he has nothing to appologize for and your tired of hearing it. Hope this is helpful in this frustrating situation and he is fortunate he has run into such a caring couple.

JM

PS: We do have a couple who we play with where he has to be at the other end of the house. If he can even hear his wife he is too distracted to perform. The thing is you don't really know what is going on in his head at the time and he isn't telling you. Perhaps you can extend the offer to full, soft, same room, different parts of house - but appologize and your out. Let them choose.

[Tybee Swing]

JM, I appreciate hearing your advice as an insider to a situation like we have.

How does it work best for you? Sounds like you're still swinging and doing fine with it.

I think that part of their urgency with keeping it going with us, is that we're all they've got for now. They prefer a close friends thing, almost exclusivity - we've always known this - but that's not our style. We're not committing to anybody but each other, and we play with others. (We are honest about this.) But, we're the only other fish in their pond for now.

I like what you said about telling him to stop apologizing, or it's over. We'll think about this. However, the whole idea of having to "train" him how to behave when we swing isn't very appealing to me.

Thanks!