Feeling like she's getting all the fun

[discoandvyper]

I'm sick and tired of the way things are going for us as a swinging couple.

We started playing as an accidental thing, one of those "too many drinks" kind of things. We had gone to a couple-friend's house for the weekend. The alcohol was flowing heavily and the wife of the friend made a move on Disco, Disco took it for what it was worth, and the two had sex on the trampoline out back.

We, the guys, got our bit too, as much as that first time nervousness about crossing boundaries would allow. When they were done with each other, we gave the girls oral sex ourselves, first one girl, then the other. Neither of us recieved any pleasure/attention, but that was ok that first time because we didn't really know what any boundaries are.

After that incident we found out that we had been "marked". That couple was a swinging couple and after making friends with them they had pretty much decided they were going to try something with us. It was basically a setup from the beginning.

Don't take it the wrong way though, I'm pretty happy it happened. I mean, I got to see my wife have oral sex with another woman... what guy doesn't wanna see that? I also had a minor fetish of seeing her with another guy, so when he gave Disco oral sex that was pretty cool too. If I had to do it over again the only real thing I would change would be maybe find friends who were better looking - they weren't Ken and Barbie, they weren't Herman Munster... pretty average. Who wouldn't want those fantasies fulfilled by the best looking people possible?

So, I hold no ill will towards them for "marking" us. They introduced us to a lifestyle of pleasure. The next couple we met as friends turned out to be swingers too - who knew there were so many of us? They did the exact same thing the first couple did, marked us for a try. They succeded too, thanks to my wife's love of alcohol and a natural itch for a woman's touch.

All in all I have no complaints on our early years as swingers. It was basically my wife getting oral sex from other women, giving oral sex to other women, and occasionally getting oral sex from another man.

It is in the later years that I find distaste in the situation. You see, the normal thing I would think would happen would be to dabble at first, get your feet wet. Then you'd talk about this with your partner and set ground rules, rules which could be bent or broken or altered altogether at later dates as desire rises and falls, new people are met, new fantasies are laid out. Ultimately I believe Swinging to be a dynamic rather than static thing, one that changes with age, weight gain or loss, sexual ability changing, and a host of other factors.

You see, the situation has remained static. We are still at the level of her getting and giving oral sex to women. Rarely am I invited to join the fun - I have, I won't lie. It has been really sporadic and only one time have I had the "fun" turned on to me (where I received). Usually the best it gets is I give the other lady oral sex... fun in its own right, but who are we kidding, we all want the full course meal. It's been six years and we're still playing the beginner games.

When we talk, or duing sexual sessions between us alone, she's open to all kinds of things. We've discussed everything from meeting couples to bringing a single male in for a one time only thing (I suggested one time only simply to fulfill my fantasy and never pressure her again). In all these things, she is open while we're talking about it. When the rubber meets the road and we've found a couple on Swing Lifestyle we would entertain the idea of meeting, she usually backs out EVEN IF IT'S HER IDEA TO MEET THEM. It'll begin with a comment about how good they look, or an email from them... she or I will reply, get a conversation going, you know how it works. When it comes to the "meet?" part of the conversation, she'll entertain it on paper but turns down the idea when we discuss it as a serious option.

I don't get it!

This is not to say we've never met couples/singles. We've met six or eight couples and two single females. It's gotten to the point that I can predict exactly what will happen. If it's a single female, we'll meet, they'll flirt, I'm left to buy drinks. We all go back to our place for more drinks, the two flirt and kiss and what have you, the clothes come off, and those two go after it like she's a single woman again - I'm left in the cold except that I can touch/do whatever with Disco.

If it's a couple, she'll meet only if they're very attractive. I can't quite seem to get it into my wife's head that there's REAL people in this lifestyle, not just Pamela Anderson (bad example, she has Hep C) and her lookalikes, and real people probably fuck better anyways. At any rate, she'll play it cool untill the other woman shows a sign of interest, then see above. Meanwhile, me and the other guy are left watching and doing things with our girl only. Does he want to do things with Disco? You bet. The ones that have tried anything beyond oral sex... party's over. If I try anything at all, period, with the other girl, party's over.

It's maddening.

Where is the natural progression of things?

Why does it seem to me like the whole show is centered on my wife, her wants, her fun, her everything? When do I get a little consideration?

I mean, it's been six years, you would think by now that we'd have progressed from the beginners basics. And it's contradictory, she'll be open to anything when we just discuss it but it doesn't get put into practice.

Yes, for those of you who are keen eyed and memoried, I am making a fool out of myself by posting this. Not a month ago I posted a post about how we both want in on the action. That post was at her behest. This is more evidence of the "anything is ok" in theory but "nothing is ok" in practice.

[JustAskJulie]

Can you explain what you mean when you say they "marked" you?

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

I'm sick and tired of the way things are going for us as a swinging couple.

Why does it seem to me like the whole show is centered on my wife, her wants, her fun, her everything? When do I get a little consideration?

I mean, it's been six years, you would think by now that we'd have progressed from the beginners basics. And it's contradictory, she'll be open to anything when we just discuss it but it doesn't get put into practice.

I don't blame you for ranting. The thing is, there's a big double standard and you're getting the very short end of the stick.

I believe that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and vice versa. I, personally, would not get what I want without offering the same equivalent activity to my hubby. You have the right to expect the same.

I'd say everything to your wife that you said here, in the quote. About her saying she's open to anything, but then in reality shutting it down, tell her that actions speak louder than words. It's time for you to see some action, not just get double-talk from her. If she just can't let you be an equal in this, she's not ready to swing.

Best wishes to you!

[Fringeswinger]

Wow. In a way, nice problem to have, but I can see your point. I'd probably give my right nut to see my wife make out with another woman.

Does she know how you feel? Does she care? A reasonable person, and especially a person in love, would strive for fairness and the happiness of the other partner. To do otherwise is selfish and uncaring.

I'd lay it out for her. Its not fair and you don't like it. She gets to play by her rules and you are left wanting. She's being a teenybopper cock tease. That's BS. She deserves to know how you feel and that you are frustrated with the "situation". Try not to make it personal (an almost impossible task). If she really loves you she will see your side. Otherwise, she's just being a cold you-know-what.

Sorry to be so blunt but I feel for ya, man.

[discoandvyper]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Can you explain what you mean when you say they "marked" you?

Sure Julie. What I mean is that they were a swinging couple before we met them. We met them the first time for drinks and whatnot. Halfway through the meeting they both went to the back yard. My wife and I didn't think anything of this.

What they were doing in the backyard was working out how to get us into bed. See, at the time we're not swingers. They were, they were working out how to not make us swingers but at least... you know, get us naked (or more probably, get Disco naked and I'm along for the ride) and have their way with us/Disco/whatever they could get.

Marked for sex, basically.

[good times]

Everyone is not cut out to be a swinger, in fact very few people are. Maybe Disco just isn't cut out for it. I have to say that were I in your situation, I would have either worked this out with my wife or called it quits within a month or two. I am just thinking if she hasn't become comfortable with you playing with another women after six years, I doubt if she ever will.

[JP51]

I have to agree with other posters, as the old saying goes, time to fish or cut bait...in this case after years and years I think you know the answer of you getting beyound her doing her bi thing... not going to happen. This is of couse assuming you have done all the talking, and meeting, etc... one idea, from my evil mind, is maybe offer up doing a MFM meeting (where you set it up and run the action), and see where she goes with that idea. The question is have you been to passive in stating your needs? From your comments I think now...sorry my thoughts run all over the place on this one! Like I said at the start, time to fish or cut bait, your not happy with the current state of affairs.

[Chicup]

Saddly (for us) the girls only playing is a VERY common method of swinging these days with the younger couples and its quite frusterating for us being Mrs. Chicup is only mildly bi and enjoys men better. Likewise I enjoy watching her with a woman, but its not my main thing.

I always thought it was the men who liked this relationship in swinging. Their wives could be bi and fullfill that fantasy while staying 'pure' from the touch of other men. As you said, a sort of beginner swinging. Perhaps I'm wrong in this assesment as a rule and the women have a lot to do with it.

The fact that your wife is ok with other women but not men touching her makes me wonder what the issue is. Does your wife just not find the other men attractive? Does she think its wrong to have sex with another man? Is she really more of a closet lesbian?

There are lots of 'what iffs' and you need to ask her what the deal is. Why doesn't she want to be with another man?

[NandTfromCA]

You’re obviously an intelligent guy so any advice will probably only be emphasizing what you already have some ideas about.

It sounds like you are afraid that if you put your foot down concerning your needs, she will either say, “Fine, where done swinging altogether” or “Fine, I’ll go do it on my own and you can find a new wife/gf”. But at the same time, it is driving you nuts doing business as usual.

If she is enjoying things how they are, and you haven’t asserted your needs, why would she change? Fair or not fair is not much of a concern to me. What is important is y’alls happiness. If you guys are doing something that is making one of you unhappy, then change it. Discuss the alternatives and make a decision.

If after a discussion one of you flip-flops on what you said, have another discussion about flip-flopping and decide on alternatives around that (ie. “If you get pissed because I did something that you said was ok before, then we need to stop involving ourselves in that kind of situation”).

[discoandvyper]

You know NandT, and the rest of you for that matter, I've weighed the alternatives. One alternative is that we quit swinging altogether. I'm not happy with that alternative, not one bit. I was in a swinging relationship before I was with Disco, and it wasn't all that long into this relationship with Disco that we began playing around such as it is. It's not an integral part of the relationship, not by any means, but it's not something I wish to give up - especially since I've never enjoyed the fruit of the endeavour. Maybe it's selfish, but I'd only consider dropping it AFTER I've had at least one fling go in such a way that I get something out of it too.

Alternative to that would be playing without my wife, but that's not really a prime solution. Part of the thrill of the chase, so to speak, is seeing my wife in action from a third person perspective, doing it with her, doing it as something we as a couple do. I still find my wife unbelievably sexy so doing it without her in favor of some woman I don't really know well isn't what I'm after. Surely you guys here know the thrill in seeing your wife/girlfriend involved sexually with someone else. I wouldn't call myself a Cuckolding fan, not by any means, but seeing her in action is a speical thrill. I'm just wishing for more me-time in the mix. Also, a "single" guy in this lifesyle... well, you all know how thrilling that role is.

Someone above (apologies for not remembering usernames) asked if she may be a closet lesbian. From her actions you'd wonder so, wouldn't you! However, to answer your question, I'm pretty sure she's not. She talks at length about how she could never give up men, how she loves dick, and how this guy or that guy caught her attention earlier on a given day. Sure, I accept this could be her "cover story" she's using to keep me from finding out her secret. There's also the fact that before she married her first husband she had been with more women than men. There's also the fact that she was with more women than men during her first marriage and during the marriage she is now in with me. Hmm... maybe you are on to something. Still, I must take her implied word for it that she's not. I'll keep it in the back of my mind from now on, how's that sound?

I suppose the only real thing I can do is sit her down and lay it out: I want to swing too, I want to be involved, and I want to meet couples with you, and have all of us have sex of some sort while preferring full swap. There is so much in this lifestyle we have not done, so much that I yearn for. This beginner's stuff is getting really old with me, to the point that I am starting to get reluctant to search for people to meet with for fear that she'll turn it into yet another thing that I have burning in the back of my brain that I'm not happy with.

Thanks for letting me rant here. I'll continue to check the thread for more people's input. I feel pretty safe making these posts because Disco never comes here, and I doubt anyone on Swing Lifestyle is going to send her a message about this thread when she's on there.

[ohash01]

Just sit down and really talk to her. Try to get to the bottom of the WHYs. An "I don't want to" is probably not going to satisfy you at this point. Is it jealousy? Is it fear of an STD? Is it that she's not attracted to the men in the couples? Is she really truly bi and just needs to be with another woman to feel satisfied, but isn't really into "swinging"? Talk to her. It may be uncomfortable. She may get gumpy and raise the level of her voice (which is what I do when I get uncomfortable), but it's better that you guys figure this out now than for you to continue to fester and begin to feel resentful.

BF and I have talked in depth about why (for right now) it's not comfortable for us to have full intercourse with others...but we are also the dreaded "beginner swingers" mentioned above. Granted, I've also never made out with another girl and left him out in the cold, but that is our personal choice.

As for the lesbian thing...I doubt it. In today's age, especially in Ohio, she'd probably just be a lesbian if that's what she is. She probably would have given up on men completely. After all, Columbus has the 2nd highest gay/lesbian population...right after San Fran.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

Sure Julie. What I mean is that they were a swinging couple before we met them. We met them the first time for drinks and whatnot. Halfway through the meeting they both went to the back yard. My wife and I didn't think anything of this.

What they were doing in the backyard was working out how to get us into bed. See, at the time we're not swingers. They were, they were working out how to not make us swingers but at least... you know, get us naked (or more probably, get Disco naked and I'm along for the ride) and have their way with us/Disco/whatever they could get.

Marked for sex, basically.

Did you know they were swingers? And was that why you had met them? Or had you met them for some other reason?

[discoandvyper]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Did you know they were swingers? And was that why you had met them? Or had you met them for some other reason?

At the point where we met them and our first experience happened we didn't know they were swingers, and thus hadn't met them for that purpose.

I'm a computer guy by trade. I held at that time (and still today) a pretty senior position in a fortune 500 company, doubly impressive since I was very young in age. (ok, so I'm tooting my own horn... ) I still enjoy basic PC repair and troubleshooting and did at the time as well. Up untill we had met I only knew him and his wife through a Yahoo Chatroom that no longer exists now that the User Created Rooms are done with. At this point we lived about 35 miles from each other, and one weekend he had a problem with two of his PCs at the same time. Our goal was to meet to put a name to the face, get busy fixing the two computers (one had a bad power supply, the other one had a burned up display adapter), and have some fun. After all, we were friends in this chatroom, and that's the primary thing we had in mind (or so I thought we had in mind) when we decided to get together for the weekend.

Like I said, I have no problem with what happened that weekend. It was the first time in my life I had witnessed two attractive women have sex together, and that's something I had wanted to see since junior high years. I had seen two women together before, but frankly it was with my ex wife and I was looking forward to see two women I'd like to see nude together. I'm happy my wife gave me that memory, but by this time six years later I'm looking for a little more.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

Alternative to that would be playing without my wife, but that's not really a prime solution. Part of the thrill of the chase, so to speak, is seeing my wife in action from a third person perspective, doing it with her, doing it as something we as a couple do. I still find my wife unbelievably sexy so doing it without her in favor of some woman I don't really know well isn't what I'm after. Surely you guys here know the thrill in seeing your wife/girlfriend involved sexually with someone else.

I understand. My hubby and I both enjoy very much doing this with each other, and seeing each other, too. Like you said, it's a special thrill.

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

She talks at length about how she could never give up men, how she loves dick, and how this guy or that guy caught her attention earlier on a given day. Sure, I accept this could be her "cover story" she's using to keep me from finding out her secret. There's also the fact that before she married her first husband she had been with more women than men. There's also the fact that she was with more women than men during her first marriage and during the marriage she is now in with me. Hmm... maybe you are on to something. Still, I must take her implied word for it that she's not. I'll keep it in the back of my mind from now on, how's that sound?

Just a thought for you - I wonder if her thinking is, "I already have a man who takes care of my needs that way, I don't need any more of those". Maybe the girls are the "strange" that she doesn't get in your relationship since she's bi, so that's all she thinks she needs in swinging?

The reason I wonder this: I have read this sort of thing sometimes in people's profiles. People saying something like, "No men, that's already covered, just want girls". Maybe this is how she thinks. Of course, you'd have to ask her! Let us know how the talking goes, and good luck.

[EvilMJ]

I think the best advice has been given, you really need to have a heart to heart with her on this and let her know what is bothering you, what your needs are, and what she feels comfortable with. If this keeps up it is only going to get worse and I think she really needs to know how much of an issue this has become for you.

Good luck Vyper and keep us posted