Feeling like she's getting all the fun

[Sweet_Candy]

Wow 6 yrs of watching your wife play with other girls sounds boring and selfish. Honestly you two sound like the couples we try to avoid. GOG play is not soft swap in our opinion if mostly all you're doing is watching and occasionally getting a crumb. How would your wife feel if all you wanted out of swinging was guy on guy play and very little fun for her? We find it interesting that men are willing to sit back and allow their wife’s to play with other woman but aren't willing to demand equal opportunity for themselves as well? Someone mentioned what you two are doing is prevalent amongst the younger couples and we've seen it as well however for us unless you're exchanging partners for certain types of sexual activity you 're not swapping.
Watching two people of the same-sex make out can get boring quickly. It's hard to believe you've let this go on for 6 yrs. Good luck in trying to modify this behavior after such a long time of doing.

[GotBatteries?]

'Honestly you two sound like the couples we try to avoid.'
Ditto. Like the plaugue. We all but run for the hills, waving our arms and screaming in terror.
Wives like this are the *biggest* reason I list myself as straight. I can get GOG anyday of the week *shrug* its pretty easy. The thrill WE get out of swinging is finding couples that are compatable with both of us. (Mr is straight but he's a big fan of at least liking the other guy, ya know, since the other guy is going to do naughty things with me.)
If I, for a SECOND, think that the other girl is more into GOG play, I call a complete halt to any and all action. I have had a wife flip out because she didnt realize I was going to touch her man. She was just as you describe yours, very much into the GOG business and was apparently shocked that as bi-chick I might actually want to be with her man. *rolling eyes* I mean, duh.
But hey, its really just a discussion ya gotta have. There is no sense in playing if you aren't getting what you want out of it.

[playtime4two]

for all couples in the lifestyle, discussion of what limits each partner expects is the number one subject. we are soft swingers, and stick to it. should a situation come up that takes us beyond our personal boundaries, we stop and talk about it. right then, right there. don't let one facet of your marriage ruin the parts that work well for you. as far as being "lured in" by the other couple, we would have preferred some discussion with them first. we never assume.

[TNT]

Your situation is a classic example of why Ted and I always say...If you're not into it for BOTH of you, it's not going to work. Resentment will set in eventually.

One-sided play can work but, it will only work when it is the only thing that both partners want. For one half of a couple to say/imply/practice the...I can do this, I want to try this but... you can't, I don't want you to do this or that, you can only do.....You ARE going to have problems eventually.

If watching your wife with other women was the only thing that you ever wanted out of swinging and it was the only thing she wanted out of swinging...no problems. Obviously, this is not the case for you. You want more than you are getting and possibly more than your wife is comfortable with and/or willing to give.

It seems to me, after reading your post that there was no discussion in the beginning as to what both of you wanted out of swinging. Did you discuss with your wife that GOG play was good, you enjoyed watching but that at some point you would want in on the action and that you would want to play yourself?

For any half of a couple to go into swinging agreeing to a certain way of play but "thinking" that eventually their partner will come around to their way of thinking/change their mind about what is okay and not okay ...is not a good way to start. EVERY THING MUST be discussed and laid on the table as to what each partner's expectations, wants and desires are. Both partners need to know what the other is and is not comfortable with, wants to try, doesn't want to try, can do, can't do...etc. .

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing until all the cards are laid on the table and BOTH of you are happy with what you decide to do and not do and neither of you are going to feel like you're being left out or not getting your fair share of the fun.


Teresa

[discoandvyper]

I must not have stressed it enough, TNT. We do talk about things. We talk about possibly inviting a couple over/out that we saw on Swing Lifestyle and liked the profile of. We talk about her finding that lucky single male and fulfilling my fantasy.

The problem in that lies in the fact that she'll discuss anything with me and agree to most if not all I'm saying. Then, when it comes time to put agreements into action she with very few exceptions backs out. The only times she doesn't back out is when the majority of the discussed activities center on her. It's gotten to the point that I am conditioned to know that if she didn't back out of a meeting, she'll killjoy the meeting when it gets sexual and either I try to get involved or the other guy gets involved. So much as a his hand on her back stops the encounter. I am Pavlov's dog in this. I have been taught this through action.

So you see, there's plenty of talk going on. The problem is a 180 degree turn by my wife once it's time to stop talking and start doing.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by TNT

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing until all the cards are laid on the table and BOTH of you are happy with what you decide to do and not do and neither of you are going to feel like you're being left out or not getting your fair share of the fun.

If you talk about it - she agrees with you - and then conditions you to the point where you expect that she will constantly back out, unless the fun "centers on her" - then what you really need to do is cut TNT advise down to this:

Originally Posted by TNT

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing

It sounds to me like you are in a "take it or leave it" situation. The only advice we can give you boils down to three basic ideas:

1. Talk (which you have done, to no avail)
2. Accept (which doesn't seem to be a palatable solution)
3. Quit (which seems even less palatable)

Unless she decides to put some weight behind her words, she is going to continue to take advantage of your misguided hope.

Spoomonkey

[Concupiscence]

If you have never told her specifically that you feel left out and are resentful of the fact that she ruins it for you, if anyone but the women get it on, then she may be assuming that you are getting enough fulfillment watching her and the other woman. You may need to accept that this is the end because if she is the least bit pissed at you about your needs then there are a million and one ways that she can "innocently" screw it up once you and another woman are ready for action. If nothing else find out what happens if you ask that there be no more girl on girl action just straight swap.

[TNT]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

The problem in that lies in the fact that she'll discuss anything with me and agree to most if not all I'm saying. Then, when it comes time to put agreements into action she with very few exceptions backs out.

Then, she is not being honest with you or herself.

You do not tell someone that you are going to do something, then trun around and do the exact opposite. That's called lying.

Your wife needs to be totally honest about her feelings. If she does not want to meet with single men and/or couples then she has got to tell you that and stop agreeing to things that she has no intentions of doing.

Have you told her how upsetting this is to you?

Ask her why all the attention needs to be centered around her. Dose she feel that if you play with another woman that you will no longer be satisfied with her? Is seeing you with another woman just something that totally turns her off? Makes her jealous? What about the single men...does she just not want any other man but you? Is she afraid that you will have problems watching her with another man ?

You have got to find out why she keeps repeating the same behavior.

Even though you say you are talking...and you both may be listening to each other but...are you really hearing what the other is saying?


Teresa

[discoandvyper]

Over the weekend we attended a weenie roast at Disco's grandfather's house. The couple that turned us on to this site was there as well. Lots of kids, a bonfire, some beer, and lots of hot dogs. Good time. But, I digress.

During the cookout I pulled my wife off to the side (actually, around the antique outhouse) and had a little discussion with her about the state of the union.

Turns out that she's a little misguided in what she represents herself as. To those that need to know, she calls herself bi because she has me but she likes women (to those that don't need to know she calls herself straight and lets them think whatever they will).

The truth of the matter is that if I weren't around, we got divorced, I passed on, what have you where I am not involved anymore, she'd be a lesbian. She's into me, but no other guy. She's only "bi" in as much as I am still in the picture.

I informed her that that basically makes her a lesbian then, in my judgement. I also asked her why it took her six years to tell me this. She had no answer for it other than "I don't know".

Here's where it gets insidious.

Before I met my wife, she was pretty wild sexually. She'd been with at her best count something like 75 men (and boys, when she was a minor). I only just found this out during our conversation. I was led to believe that she'd been with more women than men in her lifetime, but such is not the case. Turns out that before she was with me she'd routinely have sex with multiple men per night if she was at a party. She'd also been with 10 or 15 women before she met me.

The insidious part is that I cannot tell which is which anymore. I cannot tell if she's serious about the closet lesbian part and not liking men, if she's just trying to shut me up, or if she's trying to prolong our current "swinging" situation, if you can call it swinging. After all, she obviously likes the way it's going now, so she'd have something in it to keep things as they are.

But, really, she stands to gain if we were to change. She'd add a whole new gender to her repertuar if she were to admit she still likes men. I cannot in good faith tell you that I believe her when she says "without (me) I'd be a lesbian" if she's had closer to 100 than 0 male partners in her life. After all, she has her stash of male porn on her hard drive and fantasizes about men while she masturbates (I've asked!).

It's confusing, I know. Imagine how long I've got to think about this before I come up with a real answer.

The good news is that she's agreed to try a couple where the man interacts with her sexually. Why, since this contradicts what she just told me, I don't know. Sure, I'm nervous she'll killjoy the meeting after she's done with the lady. Like I said, I've been trained to expect the worst possible scenario with her.

I guess this weekend, after the date, I'll know more and be able to post more about it.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

I cannot tell if she's serious about the closet lesbian part and not liking men, if she's just trying to shut me up, or if she's trying to prolong our current "swinging" situation, if you can call it swinging.

I don't...

I call it opportunism. After all - it isn't a shared activity; it is her way or the highway. Swinging, as I understand it, involves consent and agreement and a mutual respect for both partners. This is just her chance to get it on with a girl while you are left holding the bag; your own bad...

My advice would be to cut it off. Wait until the weekend date - see how it plays out - and if somehow Zeus has decided to be kind - and she plays in a way that is fun for all (which includes you), re-evaluate with a smile on your face.

If not - back away.

Personally, it sounds like she is not being straight with you. I realize I am basing my asessment on one side of the story (a very dangerous thing) but if what you are saying is accurate, you are really being taken for a ride.

Spoomonkey

[Concupiscence]

Originally Posted by discoandvyper

The truth of the matter is that if I weren't around, we got divorced, I passed on, what have you where I am not involved anymore, she'd be a lesbian. She's into me, but no other guy. She's only "bi" in as much as I am still in the picture.

I informed her that that basically makes her a lesbian then, in my judgement. I also asked her why it took her six years to tell me this. She had no answer for it other than "I don't know".

.

Maybe you are safe and she trusted you to treat her well and provide a comfortable environment. Many times women will go with the guy who has a job and a sane life even if there is no mad passionate love to go along. Or maybe you were the first really good male lay she had had up to the point where you two were together. Maybe she didn't want to tell you that she was a lesbian for the most part because then you wouldn't marry her. Or maybe she really has no clue why she has done these things and you were the one solid thing for her to cling to. Make no mistake I am NOT trying to justify her actions, just possibly adding a little female perspective that is very likely WAY off base.

I noticed that you said that SHE would have sex with a guy this weekend, you did not mention if you were going to be with the other female. I hope everything turns out for the best.

[discoandvyper]

Originally Posted by Concupiscence

I noticed that you said that SHE would have sex with a guy this weekend, you did not mention if you were going to be with the other female. I hope everything turns out for the best.

There I go leaving untethered ends again... yes, the plan is for me to have interaction with his wife too. I really have a problem specifying things, don't I?

Anyways, cross your fingers and toes for me, and thanks for the well wishes.

[Gena]

We certainly hope things turn out well for you both!!

[Mr. Truelove]

It's hard for me to fathom a untrusting relationship with my wife. We are absolutely totally honest to eachother. It's not without it's hard feelings and pitfalls sometimes. But the nice part about it is, after we have these pitfalls we tend to come out even stronger than we were before. And thats because of Communication and honestly.

Now, I don't think that everyone necessarily has to live by my relationship rules. Obviously I think they're the best rules because, well if I didn't, I wouldn't use them. But I know many people that aren't honest with their significant others and seem to have perfectly happy marriages.

Looks like you need to make a choice. Are you ok with these doubts in eachothers honesty? If you are ok, then fine, move forward and play that game.

However if you are not ok with it, then my advice is to stop swinging altogether and work on your marriage a while. It's whatever you value more.

If it were me though I would stop and talk....and talk. You appear to still be learning new things about eachother. You should stop and explore that first. Life is long and there is plenty of time for playtime. And swinging will likely be more fun if you are in a happy relationship.

But hey, I'm an amateur in all regards, so take this advice with the best of wishes from me for your situation. And I hope it serves you well.

Mr. Truelove.

[kissyface]

Wow...I hope your weekend works out well for you both.

I would say you have been very very patient up until this point. It does sound like your wife has some underlaying issues with men.If she was a party girl up until you met her, she may have given herself "the stripper syndrome", where she comes to only see men in one light, not the best light usually. Woman may be safer for her.

That of course doesn't solve your problems. Up until now you guys have not been swinging. She has been the hot unicorn and you have been a forced voyeur. It sounds like it has bred resentment and frustration, hopefully it hasn't spilled into your vanilla life. But I can't really see how it wouldn't to some extent.

I think you guys are really really going to need to lay some firm ground rules and talk. If she really doesn't want to have sex with any other men, you don't want her to feel forced. In that case you need to talk about having threesomes where you get to have sex with both woman. It won't happen as much as a single female is of course much harder to find. I mean a Bi one, not a lesbian. If she isn't comfortable with that then I would put a halt to all outside activity.

Crossing my fingers for you guys!

Kissy