My wife has a double standard and may be cheating, too

[BodyScape02]

Originally Posted by montresor

Just a little off point... Bodyscape02, please explain "peclimped!" I drink coffee like nobody's business, but I don't know that one.

It is from a Saturday Night Live skit with Mike Meyers were he does a jewish aunt... Pleclimped is basically ...choked up..touched...honored and embarrassed sort of thing...

Sorry I forget that this board is very multinational at times...

[RNDNV]

Well Naughtycool, now that I have read this whole thread, I can honestly say that this thread is an excellent mirror for your present situation in life, and frankly, I think the communication problems (if there are any) start with you!

Honestly, I have read all your posts, and frankly, I am not really clear about what went down other than what is clear is that you created your own results. I SUSPECT you guys are in a bad patch, and, it APPEARS to be getting worse, and, it SEEMS that you guys are in poor communication with each other, but at the end of the day my unclear perceptions are due to YOUR LACK OF ABILITY OR SIMPLE UNWILLINESS TO GIVE US THE FULL AND COMPLETE STORY!

I agree that hearing your wife's version would help, but I suspect that you could no more get your wife to read this thread and contribute to it (so that we can give you advise that might help you) than you could "prevent" your wife from screwing other men at her whim.

At the end of the day, your wife is a free and autonomous spirit who is free to do what she pleases, and if in exercising her choices she does things that hurt you, and she knows that it hurts you but does it anyway, then your relationship is decaying, and frankly, trying to "whoo" her back is just placating to her need to have her esteem pumped.

For you to get any real advise here, you need to be more detailed as to what went down that night (I am still unclear if the first guy is the same second guy, or if they are two different men), AND your wife needs to chime in with her side of the story.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I was a bit surprised at how quickly people advised simply "quitting" on the whole thing and seeing the divorce lawyer - but then I looked at the way their status was listed and figured - makes sense. Quitters quit...

Oh dear, I knew if I walked past the cage I'd set off one of 'em. If only life were as simple as a Nike tennis shoe ad...

Where did you see me or anybody else telling him to leave his marriage? The gentleman's wife has essentially torn up their "swinging contract"...she may be at high risk for tearing up the "marriage contract" as well. All I was suggesting is that in light of her past deception and the fact that she's increasingly focused outside her marriage for companionship, he might be well advised to weigh his marital options and protect his assets if neccessary. That was an opinion shared by several others...are they "quitters" too?

BTW - It's presumptuous of you to "look at the way my status was listed [on my profile]" and make a general assumption about my character. You know nothing about me, of the battles I've fought (and in some cases, continue to fight) or of the people who benefit daily from my perserverance in those matters. I would never look at your marital status and assume that you're "a guy who lacked the self-confidence to imagine, or the skills necessary to achieve, a happy, self-actualized life absent the ties of matrimony." Please do not assume that "single" equates to "quitter" when looking at mine.

I think the sensitive advice from folks who know nothing of your situation would come from the angle of valuing marriage and making it work. I suppose not everyone shares those values.

Many single/dovorced people "value marriage" every bit as much as you presumably do. In fact, it could be said that they respect it far too much to stay in a bad or abusive one indefinitely, as so many seem to do. It would be wise to keep that in mind when making assumptions about people based on their marital status.

[BodyScape02]

Originally Posted by JnCC

...Many single/dovorced people "value marriage" every bit as much as you presumably do.

In fact, it could be said that they respect it far too much to stay in a bad or abusive one indefinitely, as so many seem to do. It would be wise to keep that in mind when making assumptions about people based on their marital status.

Touche` excellent point. I would agree with you there... but I think his comment comes more from the ... "can't see myself ever in that position" perspective.

But the personal attack was a bit uncalled for. It comes with the territory ( I know..lol) if you offer strong advice...you will get strong ractions. You knew that.

My suggestion to woo the wife back is because I know that even when my abusive ex was at his worst... all I wanted was for him to be nice again... to put me first ...not last. I never cheated on him...and now, I know I will never stand for being disrespected like that again. ( good insight)

Everything in the world that is worth while...takes work and commitment. He has to decide what to do and what he can tolerate... perhaps ...soon.. he may need to heed your advise instead of mine...Best to strive for the best, and prepare for the worst.

~Cat

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by BodyScape02

Best to strive for the best, and prepare for the worst.

I agree with this - and I suppose this was my entire point... It was a personal attack only in the sense that some folks can be a bit predictable - if something negative and offensive can be said, there are those who will figure out a way to say it...

Not particularly helpful if you ask me...

When a person is facing the worst possible scenario, I assume they know that "desperate measures" may be a possibility. But before everyone hands out a nice big helping of "duh" maybe actually trying to give constructive advice would be the wise first step.

I guess I'd just like to see one example of "sorry you're in a tough situation, here's a way you might be able to work through it" rather than the constant "sorry, dude, but you're fucked" responses... I tend to think people ask their questions looking for some sort of help - even if their situations are almost dire.

Err on the side of grace...

Not a bad way to live...

Divorce happens - and it damn well should sometimes. But I don't think it's the first thing a person should try. That's just me - and you're right; I can't see myself in that situation. My life is as easy as a Nike ad...

When the first piece of advice is "get thee to a lawyer" it is pretty obvious that the poster is coming from a fatalistic perspective. I just don't share that perspective - and maybe that is why the "Nike ad" shoe fits...

Spoomonkey

[Naughtycool]

Ok folks- whole story- eh- no prob- been in the lifestyle as I said for 9 years. Mostly clubs and home parties for many years and went average twice a month--then bought a boat- thereby ending any warm weather parties and continued after pull-out- Three summers ago- naturally stopped for the summer and then in the fall went back to lifestyle events- First month Oct/03 my wife partied with a single guy she had been with before and every monthly party after that until the next June (into boating season now!)Around this time-actually a couple months before I had mentioned to her that it was time to cool her jets and party with soembody else once in a while- Didn't go over real well at the timebut we did slow down on attendance and did spend some great time together on the boat- at the end of last boating season fuck buddy came along for a weekend cruise and we all three partied together. Then went to our playpens on a monthly basis but fuck buddy didn't show much until last dec./04 party and at that paty- they did not get together- wasn't a few weeks late and either one of them contacted each other again. We went to several more parties until this past April and haven't been back since- yes- I figured we needed the break especially after Mr. Fuck Buddy and she got too close and wsan't until this past incident that ANYTHING has happened..
So--- Yes- we have partied singly before but always in the context of a club or party- never out in the straight world- and so when our friend- (her party friend from 6 years ago, and mine from recent business dealings) called and said he would be in town and would like to take us to dinner- "Sure let's go"- as I reiterated before- At the time found I had to make a later appt. than normal in my job- I immediately called her and him and said I would catch up with them later- Hers lwas the last phone call and that was when she asked me- " What if he wants to hae sex with me" and to which I replied- " whats the matter- you're a big girl; can't you say no?" And she said yes- Done deal in my mind! Not to worry! That was at 4 pm.- at 6 pm she called and told me something about our son and is when she added- "there is something in the fridge for you and I don't know when I'll be home"- HHHMMMmmmmm??????
So wen to my appt. and called her at the restaurant at 7:37-and said not quite sure when I will be finished here but should be home by 9-ish- Ok she says and told me abouyt something else in the freezer- WWWHaaaat???? I think when I hang up? Finish my business withing the next ten min. and sure enought arrive home at 9:10 thinking I will hit the bathroom and change and go to the restaurant and have a drink with them- BUT!!!! Noticed something awry with the batroom wastebasket which was overful- (not my wife!) and thought HHhmm- better empty that so that the cats don't go digging for stuff- and lo nd behold-- I find a fresh empty douche bottle----WAIT A MINUTE!!! I think- she had to be thinking about having sex with him before she left-(picked her up at 7) as certainly th 6 o'clock phone call with -stuff in the fridge and don't know when I'll be home began!!!!
RING RING- 9:15 - Yes I'm home -and are you finished with dinner-- yes- you're in the bathroom?- okay- have a good time- yes- should be home soon?- don't know- okay(?)--- go ahead and eat and I will see you later- Okay-- love you- love you- bye-click-
RING RING- 9:53- Hello? Hi- in the bathroom again - boy am I getting drunk- Great- Don't know when I'll be home- Okay- don't be too much later- you do have to wrok tomorrow-
Oky- Okay Love you- Love you- click
12:05 - He drops her off - she is surprised to see that I am still up- she staggers a little walking in-
"you still up?- " of course, rested a little" Where are you coming from? "His hotel-- "the lobby?" "No, his room" -
"And what did you do?"
"Looked at pictures and had sex"-
So - full story-
after that she says -"are you jealous?" "No - just a little confused as to what you had planned the whole evening long without telling me"-
"What do you mean"-
I mean- if you weren't planning on having sex with him in the first place- why did you douche?
"You found that?"
"Yes-"
" I was going to hide that, too" she said-

AGAIN- since she did it behind my back and kept leading me away from meeting them and now says- party with whomever- - - Is she just feeling guilty that I found out her intentions after our initial 4 pm. conversation, and just said to go party to get a reaction - or just talking out of her ass?
Naughtycool
p.s. as for Mrs. NC's comments here- she wouldn't even admit that the previous fuck buddy and she got in over theri heads- that she said was all my fault!!!! Because of the way I acted with him around her- Oh well- she's not used to a husband acting like a husband that wants to keep his wife!

[txduo2000]

My opinion: Not guilt ... she's talking out her ass.

If you want your marriage, then get out of swinging and into marriage counseling, immediately!!!!

If you are ready to give up ... take JnCC's advice.

Man, I am a woman and there is NO way in HELL I would ever pull ANYTHING like that ... and I have actually CHEATED on my husband in the distant past. We recovered, but I think that this is so awful. It hurt my heart to read what you wrote! I am NOT justifying my cheating - anyone who has read my posts about that situation will agree that by no means do I justify what I did, but I will say that for her to do something so blatant, and basically RUB IT IN YOUR FACE ... OMG ... inexcusable!!!!!

[Mark&Beth]

I agree with spoo on this baby! but don't give up. U know, sometimes women (especially when insecure) will self destruct - expecting the man to take the lead and prove themselves
Even though u aren't the one in this case to screw up. Perhaps she knows deep down that she screwed up and is afraid it is all over - so why the hey not!! just go all out!

Be there for her - you obviously love her. As EvilMJ suggested. Pull away from this lifestyle to get you and your beloved back to where u were able to be open. to be one again.

Its so easy in this lifestyle to loose perspective.

Just be there for her (not that u aren't already) but she is obviously not reacting with reason - just emotion.

And remember why u fell in love with her. Remind her why u fell in love with her.

My husband and I have regular time together to remember each other so to speak. So we never loose ourselves.

I hope that everything works out for the best hun!
Beth

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by BodyScape02

...the personal attack was a bit uncalled for. It comes with the territory ( I know..lol) if you offer strong advice...you will get strong ractions. You knew that.

Actually, if you offer ANY advice that hasn't been cleared through "The Central Committee" you'll get "strong reactions"...but usually from one of only about 4 people on this board.

THEN you'll get an e-mail or a phone call from somebody else, saying "Thanks...for telling it like it is and keeping it real around here."

But then you knew that, didn't you?

I consider myself a "combat veteran" of The Divorce Wars, and as such would NEVER suggest that as the first course of action when things are going wrong in a marriage. Although I'm still on friendly terms with my 1st and 3rd wives (maybe too friendly according to some people) I know firsthand the pain it causes kids, friends, and other family members to see a family unit dissolved. I'm also quite familiar with the financial devastation, not to mention the erosion of parental rights, a person can suffer when he's focused on avoiding a divorce that she sees as her ticket to an early retirement.

I've been around enough to know that there's 2 sides to every story, and I'm only responding to one side of this one, but from the sounds of things, "life" is serving this guy a shit sandwhich, and he's not quite sure what to do. As my detractor stated in his previous post, my advice was predictable..."Go see a doctor, immediately...you don't HAVE to eat that sandwich!" (except I said "lawyer") There's a reason I specifically said that he "didn't need to [do anything official] yet." Hope springs eternal.

Apparently some people are either so attuned to what I'm going to say, or in such a hurry to start their personal attack, that they don't bother to READ THE WHOLE FUCKING POST. It's the typical, Fire! Aim! Ready! response one sees in lower primates.

My philosophy is simply this...without honesty and candor, this board, like any other, is useless as a source of information...and boring as well. If you or I have to tailor every post, every response, and every opinion to "Captain Sunshine" and his committee of 3, then there's no use posting at all...we can move to another board, and they can start using a canned response. That'll be easy for them, since they only have one;

"You just need to work on your communication and your marriage will turn out fine...JUST LIKE OURS!"

I sincerely hope the OP and his wife get things sorted out. (I DETEST the Divorce Industry and the parasites that thrive off of it) But in the event that things don't work out, just maybe I've set into motion some action that will ultimately keep that guy from having to drive past what used to be "his" house, "visiting" what used to be "his" kids, and wondering what she and her newest live-in flavor-of-the-week are watching on what used to be "his" wide-screen TV.

Yea, life IS easy...IF you're a tennis shoe and don't mind being stepped on all the time.

any lady willing to answer some questions that are bothering me?

need advice from a woman anyone willing?

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by pickyourown

need advice from a woman anyone willing?

What advice do you need? It might get better exposure/response if you start a new thread rather than beginning your questions in an existing thread started by someone else?

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Naughtycool

...Around this time-actually a couple months before I had mentioned to her that it was time to cool her jets and party with soembody else once in a while- Didn't go over real well at the timebut we did slow down on attendance... I figured we needed the break especially after Mr. Fuck Buddy and she got too close...
12:05 - He drops her off - she is surprised to see that I am still up- she staggers a little walking in-
"you still up?- " of course, rested a little" Where are you coming from? "His hotel-- "the lobby?" "No, his room" -
"And what did you do?"
"Looked at pictures and had sex"-
So - full story-
after that she says -"are you jealous?" "No - just a little confused as to what you had planned the whole evening long without telling me"-
"What do you mean"-
I mean- if you weren't planning on having sex with him in the first place- why did you douche?
"You found that?"
"Yes-"
" I was going to hide that, too" she said-
...
p.s. as for Mrs. NC's comments here- she wouldn't even admit that the previous fuck buddy and she got in over theri heads- that she said was all my fault!!!! Because of the way I acted with him around her- Oh well- she's not used to a husband acting like a husband that wants to keep his wife!

You sound really sincere here. My first reaction? Your wife still hasn't figured out the difference between cheating and swinging. She's cheating. If ever there were defining characteristics of a cheater, they are denial, lack of accountability, and callous disregard for the well-being of others while indulging in their selfishness. Also see 'sneaky', and 'liar'. Anytime a person does something that they would be afraid or ashamed to tell their spouse (as indicated by the used douche in the trash can), consider it cheating. And in my mind, it wouldn't matter if they sealed the deal or not; what matters is she went out of her way to keep something from you for her own benefit at the expense of yours. Whether or not the sex actually ocurred is besides the point.

Honey, she needs an intervention. Ok, so you'll be the only one doing the intervening, but whatever. Is this kind of dishonest behaviour acceptable to you? If it's not, you may need to take drastic action. Draw your line in the sand and tell her that her terms for 'open marriage' are unacceptable to you. You require that you are her priority over others. If SHE cannot live by YOUR terms, then perhaps Mr. Fuck Buddy would be a better match for her. Suggest it in all seriousness. And be prepared for her to 'call your bluff'. Perhaps when she finds out that it's no bluff, she may rethink the value of your relationship. Give her one of those "uh-oh" moments. You know, like those moments when you realize too late that you just hit 'send' on a nasty email to the boss? The risk here is that she may be too far into her denial to realize she screwed up royally (see the part in the quote above about how she blames you whenever she's found out). In which case, she's just shrug indifferently and say, "Fine, fuck ya!" and walk away mumbling that it's all your fault, that you don't know what you just lost... :rollseyes Right. If this is her attitude, the only thing you've really lost is 120 lbs (or a lifetime supply) of misery. No one deserves to be disrespected or lied to, and you shouldn't settle for it. Again, that's just my opinion.

Not every couple is meant to be. How can you tell? I guess when both people are happy with themselves as persons, when they are both living life the way they feel they should be, they still detract from one another's energy. But if you and your wife, at your most ideal selves, suit one another, there is still hope. I'm a firm believer in the value of searching for truth. Is it not better to discover the truth of one's relationship before one has wasted an entire lifetime living a lie? If the truth is that you love and suit one another, that you could be assets to one another's lives, then the rest is just a matter of a lot of work and dedication (a LOT!).

We wish you luck!

[Naughtycool]

[QUOTE=Mark&Beth]I agree with spoo on this baby! but don't give up. U know, sometimes women (especially when insecure) will self destruct - expecting the man to take the lead and prove themselves
Even though u aren't the one in this case to screw up. Perhaps she knows deep down that she screwed up and is afraid it is all over - so why the hey not!! just go all out!

Very astute! this is what has happened in her previous relationships(and marriage) and a pattern that I am very aware of- -
In fact- I have gone so far to say to her that - if it were not for our participation in the Lifestyle that she probably would have cheated on me in the straight world- as she did with her ex- husband and following committed relationships-(tit for tat cheating was the norm) I saw those red flags early in our relationship, and as long as we had ground rules in effect for the lifestyle- everything was aboveboard, committed and very passionate-
With the last Fuck buddy and that situation, passion was lost - as well as naturally , the ground rules, and as was said somewhere in this thread- acountability for her actions-
So- yes our relationship works on many levels, IS worth keeping and working on, and we do love each other very much-
I believe that her behavior is based on her being molested as a child by a family member-as how could someone you love hurt you?-and therefore- she hurts back in an effort to avoid being hurt first- not that I would, or have ever cheated or anything like that- I believe its an inherent mechanism she has to control perceived and pre-conceived threats-
I know I have lots of work to resolve her habits and defense mechanisms as I AM- the only person in her life to have not consciously betrayed or hurt her in that manner-

[curiousagain]

Originally Posted by Naughtycool

In fact- I have gone so far to say to her that - if it were not for our participation in the Lifestyle that she probably would have cheated on me in the straight world- as she did with her ex- husband and following committed relationships-(tit for tat cheating was the norm) I saw those red flags early in our relationship, and as long as we had ground rules in effect for the lifestyle- everything was aboveboard, committed and very passionate-
With the last Fuck buddy and that situation, passion was lost - as well as naturally , the ground rules, and as was said somewhere in this thread- acountability for her actions-
So- yes our relationship works on many levels, IS worth keeping and working on, and we do love each other very much-
I believe that her behavior is based on her being molested as a child by a family member-as how could someone you love hurt you?-and therefore- she hurts back in an effort to avoid being hurt first- not that I would, or have ever cheated or anything like that- I believe its an inherent mechanism she has to control perceived and pre-conceived threats-
I know I have lots of work to resolve her habits and defense mechanisms as I AM- the only person in her life to have not consciously betrayed or hurt her in that manner-

Take it from an EX "fixer", you cannot fix people. They can fix themselves and they sometimes need help but you cannot love them enough or try hard enough to pull them kicking and screaming through the process. You can only support them as they slog through themselves.

Be careful you are not her enabler in her behavior. By tolerating it, you very well may be. And, it may be that you are just another in a string of relationships she has thrown away with her behavior. At some point she may realize the errors of her ways and she might not. Just don't let her drag you down with her. As far as her being abused as a child, don't let her use an excuse as a reason and you shouldn't use it as a reason to allow her behavior. Anybody can rationalize a behavior.

To reiterate, I am only going by what's posted here and am basing much of my thoughts on my experiences, training, and practice. Your milage may vary, your opinions may vary. But, these are mine.