"Taking one for the Team"?

[Vjklander]

I think it is sweet that ophelia wants to try to accommodate her hubby's desires. It certainly speaks well for her that she is here trying to get information and advice.
As we have seen on this board many times, the original desire is from one or the other in a couple and the second basically goes along with some trepidation. And fairly often the one with the trepidation ends up liking it a whole lot more than the one who got the ball rolling. Gawd, I love irony !!! Maybe this is behind ophelia's hasitation given her past history.
To tell you the truth, I don't mind "taking one for the team". Unless there is a hygiene issue, I will merrily play with someone I'm not particularly attracted to if it means MrsVjk has a good time. Doesna bother me at all.
It really is up to ophelia what she wants to do. She might start just going to titty bars with hubby to see how she handles an erotic experience, maybe then graduate to going to a club without playing, just to get some exposure so to speak. Maybe go on to soft swinging.
We don't have hubby's input, so we only have ophelia's side of the story. MrsVjk and I often have quite different views of a situation, and if someone else only heard one side they would wonder how we could stand being inthe same universe with each other. Well, maybe not THAT bad, but you get the idea.
So my suggestion is, lets help ophelia look at the situation from all sides and simply support her in whatever course of action SHE decides is best for her.
**huggles*

[robnbarb]

OH boy,

Ok reminder I am a newbie, but i gotta step in and say it. Would HE stop for you. WOuld he take one for the team.

I am just going to be honest I WOULD. If my wife said right now that we should stop, damn straight I would without hesitation. Would I never bring the subject up again, well I will be honest I probably would, but I have at least learned not to pressure cook her to give in. That never works.

I am not an expert, I am speaking from someone who hasn't done anything in the lifestyle who is treading on the edge of the lake waiting to jump in, If the wife didn't wanna swim, I guess I am sunbathing that day

The point is I love, and I mean LOOOOOVE my wife more than any fantasy and anything that threatened that love I would do my best to deal with. If things got to hot on my end, then I would go to therpy.

Now I have to ask, would he do the same for you?

[ophelia]

MR. VJK? I hope I remembered your handle correctly.....perhaps I will put hubby onto this thread later, but I need to clarify some issues from my own perspective before I fall behind his shadow, as I am want to do. He tends to want to defend himself and the lifestyle and I might not be able to ask honest questions without tromping his feelings. I let him see some of this so I get his point of view, but some things I can't show him yet. I do understand your point, though.

As for my fellow newbie...I think you and my husband have much in common. He tells me he would do anything for me, including never play...it's just that I want to do this for him becaue I know it would make him happy. Being here to get some answers is part of a last ditch effort to give it my best college try. I want to exhaust all possibilitites before I say, "I really give up; it's beyond my capabilities."

[TNT]

Although we applaud your efforts to learn as much about this lifestyle as you can, we do have a few words of advice for anyone who is unsure in this pursuit.

Everyone needs to be absolutely certain that they, themselves, want to explore swinging. You CANNOT get into swinging just because your SO wants you to.

It is unfair to yourself, your SO and especially the people you would be playing with. The people you play with deserve better than what at best would be a half hearted encounter and at worst a crying drama fest. We believe that you should never inflict your problems on someone else and as long as there may be a problem you should not attempt to play with anyone.

You cannot do this to make your husband happy, you have to do this because it is something that you want to do as well.

TNT

[readyat45]

I have to admit to being somewhat of a newbie to this, with the limited experiences we have had, there has always been a common rule to this lifestyle that we have found. "NO MEANS NO" not only between couples/3somes, but partners as well.
Some of us are soft swing, some full, some have "special" limits that is shared only between partners. What ever the rule that you two set, it should be agreed upon before hand. So there can be a slow start, limited actions, and in general a set goal for you both to adhere too.
I agree with the feeling that a recovering alcoholic shouldn't be asked to drink again! And maybe your prior addiction should be included with this feeling. But the reason for your addiction could be more of response to what you feel/felt about yourself (only a 6 1/2), rather than a physical addiction that alcohol becomes. Only you can decide that, even if it take some help to find it out.
From a guys point of view, I see that your husband is trying to take your interests and make them the priority for you both. He stopped the trip to the party, he is willing to wait and make sure that this is something that YOU want to be a part of. I too have told my wife for years that I loved her just the way she is, and that I wanted to see her naked body so much more than she ever let me. It wasn't until other guys started paying attention to her, that she really caught on that I was telling the truth.
Listen to him and your heart, you might realize that the love between you is stronger than the other Physical attractions that you would get from the lifestyle.

[Rett]

Ophelia,

Taking one for the team? It sounds as if you have been taking therapy to regain your self-esteem and break your addiction and now your husband is disregarding all your efforts , and blames (or uses ) jealousy as the problem.

A lot of good advice has already been given. Swinging is not for everyone, and you should not agree just to give in. Your husband should be considerate of your feelings , especially because of your efforts and reasons for going to therapy to break your addiction. It's probably not a jealously issue at all. Your husband should also be going the therapy with you to understand what you are going through and also to find out what his desires might mean to your marriage. In a loving relationship each partner should and respect the others feelings and wishes as much or more than their own . If it's not something you wish to do, your husband should drop the subject and work on improving your marriage.

Beyond what has been posted you might find some valuable advise and information in each of the following links:

threesomes

lovevslike

Issues

Freelove


I hope it works out for you, your husband, and your marriage.

[robnbarb]

I hope I didn't come off to harsh there ophelia. I do feel at tad strongly about the issue since I was unknowingly pressureing my wife. Anyway I hope you can work this out to where you are happy.

[sensuality]

Perhaps you should approach this from a new angle...As for your remission,have you told him that you are like any other addict who needs to steer clear of the substance of choice? Have you explained to him exactly what being a sex addict means? And,have you told him or does he realize once he opens that can of worms, odds are you'll go buck wild all over again and not necessarily just in swinging situations? He seems a little ignorant to me...{by ignorant I mean,uninformed...not stupid }Does he like to read?Because he needs some education about addiction.He needs to go to therapy with you and hear it from your counselor exactly how this addiction works.You do not OWE it to him to "swing" his way.He needs to come to terms with the fact that he may never swing again and that's the bottom line.He's disrespecting you and totally disregarding your feelings.And, to be able to get into this lifestyle to begin with, you have to have a firm foundation which among other things, requires a lot of respect for one another. Do not let any one pressure you into doing anything you do not feel comfortable with,I don't give a damn who it is!!You will lose all respect for yourself and forget about any self-esteem...that'll fly out the window too!
It seems like you need to take care of you...and deal with all your issues,and he should be your support system and love you with or without the swing!

[MScouple04]

Hello everyone, my wife and i are newbies in the lifestyle and i was the one to bring it up and i was the one interested in it and she tried it cause she was curious .. After playing the first time i i have had these same jealousy issues and fear of losing my wife that ophelia is having. I am trying really hard to get over them and just have fun because my wife loves the lifestyle and the openess.. I on the other hand realize truly how much i love her and want ONLY her .. I haven't come right out and said i want to stop because i'm afraid that she will hate me for taking something away from her .. I would endure any pain i cause myself while doing this just to see her happy and having fun .. Deep down inside i don't want to do it anymore but i keep doing it because she wants to .. I'm the type of person that prepares for the worst and no matter how many times she tells me she loves me i keep thinking that there must be something that she doesn't love if she still wants to do be in the lifestyle and i am setting myself up for a huge fall i know i am .. I love my wife very much and would do anything for her to see her happy.. We were playing seperatley and she went to one of our friends house yesterday while his wife was out of town and the entire day i was fighting back tears .. Before we started playing we made the rule that we would always use protection .. The first time we played on the trip to our friends house i kept reminding her to use a condom and she assured me she would .. I asked her if she did and she said no .. That right there threw me back a little in my work on getting over my jealousy .. The entire day she was over at our friends house i was thinking she's not going to use a condom and i was picturing them laying in bed holding each other in their arms and slowly kissing and staring in each others eyes.. I'm not mad at anyone for this and for the way i feel because it was my idea and i had an idea on what was going to happen .. I just wasn't ready for it as i thought i was .. I'm continuing with the lifestyle cause i want her to have fun but it is tearing away at my self respect and the image i have of myself but to me it's all worth it to see her smile .. I would appreciate any advice that yall have to give ..

[stoutgatte]

A lot of good advice has been given in this thread. But I have a couple of things to add...

Firstly, I'm seriously thinking we're being a bit harsh on him here. From everything ophelia is saying he's more than willing to shelve this fantasy. They have obviously talked about this a lot, and him being honest about his fantasy is a good thing, as long as he is not pressuring her. From the way you describe the situation, and more precisely this part:

Quote: Originally Posted by curiousagain
Maybe he figures once you "get started" you will enjoy it as much as him.

THAT'S IT! He says that all the time!

it does sound like he is putting a bit of pressure on you Ophelia, don't give in to pressure. It will harm your relationship.

Now, as for you swinging, please take your time untill you are totally comfortable with the idea of seeing your partner having another. If you never get comfortable, you can never swing without risking your relationship. It was summed up so well by TNT:

Although we applaud your efforts to learn as much about this lifestyle as you can, we do have a few words of advice for anyone who is unsure in this pursuit.

Everyone needs to be absolutely certain that they, themselves, want to explore swinging. You CANNOT get into swinging just because your SO wants you to.

It is unfair to yourself, your SO and especially the people you would be playing with. The people you play with deserve better than what at best would be a half hearted encounter and at worst a crying drama fest. We believe that you should never inflict your problems on someone else and as long as there may be a problem you should not attempt to play with anyone.

You cannot do this to make your husband happy, you have to do this because it is something that you want to do as well.

As for MScouple04:
Firstly, I think it should be a different thread... Your situation is much different from that of Ophelia.

Are you playing seperately? That is, do you basically have an open relationship? This is not swinging, some swingers do play solo, most do not. We've had a couple of solo experiences, and it is hard. There are huge jealousy issues if you're not 100% sure of your relationship. It sounds like you are not there.

Is the only playing (read sex) you've done your wife with this friend? Have you touched another person?

I'd seriously suggest you get out of that type of situation as soon as possible. The friend's wife (how can you two be friends of this woman?) obviously doesn't know and this is another storm you are about to jump into. His wife IS going to find out and it will lead to problems in the long term, married men are not safe if they are willing to cheat on their spouses...

If you want to give her the fantasy, try swinging in couple - couple situations only. It might work for you to share an experience, not have personal experiences apart from each other. But I'd suggest you get out of any open relationship and swinging type activities untill your trust in her is restored and you are totally comfortable with the idea.

The day you want to see her with another is the day you should reconsider trying to get back into the lifestyle. The experience you had is extremely unsettling and nobody can blame you for feeling the way you do. Good luck on clearing this up, from someone who's been there...

[ophelia]

MS Couple 04

I am SOOOOO with you. You voiced exactly how I feel. I would cut off a mammary gland for my husband, but I just can't understand how he can say he loves me as much as he does and still have this overwhelming desire to do somebody else.

They must be wired differently?????

Stoutgatte,

Thank you for defending my sweetie's honor. I know he is doing his best to be patient with me, but part of him is really chomping at the bit and it shows more than he thinks it does.

OK, he has decided to put his two cents in here, so here goes:

"Well I am Ophelia's husband. So here is my side of the story: I love my wife dearly and told her if she cant do this then we wont. BUT you do not know her like I do...If I mention I like something (even in passing) I usually find it coming in the mail from ebay within the month (so I have had to learn to be careful what I say becaue she is such a nuturing mate and mother - she does this for the kids also). I did tell her about my past in the lifestyle when it looked like we were getting serious. We agreed to "ALWAYS" tell each other the truth because even little lies (i.e. "no dear you look wonderful in the white balloon shaped dress with the ruffles") will erode trust over time. In the beginning, when I told her she said she had a pretty "colorful" sexual past also and she thought she could play in the lifestyle given some time to look into it. Its been almost four years, and only recently has she started telling me how hard it is for her to do this. That may be my fault also, sometimes we hear only what we want to hear. I reinterate, WE WILL NOT PLAY TILL SHE IS READY - IF AND WHEN SHE IS READY!
She gave me permission to play without her (I am out of town due to work a lot). I will not play without her. I told her I want to play with her in the lifestyle - NOT inspite of her.
I was in the lifestyle as a couple and as a single for 5-7 years. I saw a lot of good and some bad in the lifestyle. Some of the best friendships I have ever made were lifestylers (i.e. hard not to be friends with somone when you've had your face between thier legs - lol). To me, the lifestyle is like having really great friends you can barbeque, see movies, watch TV or take trips with and add to that you can have sex with them also. Best of friends plus something extra.
My baby has ONLY been in remission since we have been dating (I found that out last nite). She is not sure why she is in remission...she thinks because I dont ignore her...maybe because I told her do not cheat, if you feel the need - call a lifestyler friend (it sort of takes away the fun of doing something your not supposed to do - I think and I want to make sure she plays with someone safe - no PSYCHOS).
As far as our relationship goes, I love her more than life itself. But I do know enough about addiction (I may have a lessor form of the addiction),to know you are NEVER cured....only in remission or under control. So eventually she may start feeling the old urges....if she needs it (with or without the lifestyle) then We will deal with it together.
Additionally, she is VERY submissive. She got turned on when I took control and told her what to do when we were Yahoo video conferencing with a couple a few nites ago...do I think she would enjoy lifestyle eventually?....a strong Maybe...will I force her to "TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM'? - Never!!!
I do think she needs to come to grips with why i love her - if she was one legged, weighed 400 lbs and drooled constantly..she could not get rid of me with dynamite. She thinks she is a 6 1/2 and Im a 10....what she doesnt realize is that Im the 6 1/2 and she is the 10! I love her for what she is to us (kids and I) when she is not being 'my little slut puppy' in bed!
I hope we can play in the lifestyle someday (when/if see is ready)...we moved too fast and she was not ready for a party now... we will take things slow and let her decide what she likes and doesnt like...but i think it is good that she is finding out as much as she can about the lifestyle so she can make an INFORMED decision.
I am now gettign off my soapbox...ty"

[robnbarb]

I'll be the first to admit I was a tad harsh.

But, you are right ophelia, Men and women are wired differently. I will say from my own experence it is hard for some people to remember that they cannot control anything but thier own behavior. Take that as you will. I feel like anything else said by me on that will sound pushy.

[sensuality]

Well, after reading your hunny's post...The only advice is just to take it very, very, very slowly.Never do anything until you are entirely sure about things.You both have said some really touching things about eachother and the love you share between you,so your foundation is set.Good luck in the future...

[stoutgatte]

Yep, let me reiterate: Take it very, very slow. Remember, you may never be right for swinging, and if you're not comfortable, don't do it...

Thanks for your hubby's input, it makes for a more balanced view of things.

To the mr:
Try to reassure your wife as much as possible. It seems to me like there is some issues you two need to work at together, this is just a general gut feel from her posts on swinging. The way that she latched onto certain phrases in this thread might be attributed to her personality as you explained it, but it might also be that you are unknowingly pressuring her. Just watch out for that, I know its hard to see something you are not conciously doing, but try.

Good luck in sorting this out. I don't think you'll be ready for swinging for a long time, use the fantasy, stay away from acting on it.

[MScouple04]

I think everyone missunderstood what i said about our friend and his wife .. They are swingers and they play seperately .. I think my problem is I just dove right in .. didn't do much research on it or anything and instead of starting off as playing together we just jumped in head first .. It may be my fault but I love my wife very much and I am 99 % sure of our relationship and the reason it's only 99 is because the other 1 % isn't because i don't trust her it's because i feel like eventually especially the type of person i am will wind up pushing her away if i don't get my emotions under control .. I can't live with that .. I want to die by her side .. I never want to be 1 second without her .. I will do anything to make this work because my wife likes it and i love seeing the smiles on her face .. I have fun also so it's not completely terrible .. I just need to get over my insecurities .. I know she loves me she tells me and shows me everyday .. I feel like she deserves better than me and that's my problem .. I know she deserves better and now that it's a reality that she may actually find someone better I don't think she would leave me but you never truly know i don't want her to leave but if she found someone that could make her truly happy and feel more loved than i do then i wish her the greatest of luck ( not saying i wouldn't stalk her for awhile though ) .. My whole life from the time i married her is and always will be keep her happy, make her feel the greatest love that I can give and doing anything to keep her in my life .. Without her i know i would be nothing .. On that note i am completely sure about our relationship.. She hasn't done a single thing wrong since we've been married and that's what scares me .. I've done alot wrong and the thought of her being hurt makes me want to kill myself , and if she asked i would do it in a heartbeat.. I know she wouldn't though cause i see it in her eyes that she loves me just as much if not more than i love her ..

Our friends are swingers and his wife knew about them being together yesterday .. We are going to play together and only with them for awhile until i get more comfortable with it or start taking illegal drugs .. lol .. i'm kidding .. They are great people and they are great friends and even if we did get out of the lifestyle i know they would still be our friends ... Most of the problems i am having right now are MY problems , nothing that my wife or our friends have done.. I appreciate all of your advice and would like to get more from all of you .. Thanks ..