Do I have a veto card?

[leftcoastcouple]

In light of the "Husband's too picky to play" and follow-up "Who's pickier" threads, a train of thought occurred to me that I don't think has been addressed before: Is it OK to veto a couple, not because you aren't attracted to the person with whom you'd be having sex, but based upon the person your partner would be with?

I ask this because, as I alluded to in the other threads, my wife and I have made a game of checking out other couples from the perspective of "Would we?" and guessing what the other will say. As I stated in the other threads, my wife often surprises me. She's quite picky, yet she often says "yes" to couples with guys I'd frankly rather she'd say "no" about.

When I and my friends are out, we often joke, as Howard Stern is known to do, about women we wouldn't want to be with because of the guys they've slept with--because we wouldn't want to "follow" those particular guys. That's where I'm coming from with some of the guys my wife says she'd do. I don't want to get home afterwards and think, Ew, she was with HIM and feel alienated from her.

If I wouldn't want to sleep with some generic woman because of a guy she's slept with, then I don't know where that leaves me as a married wanna-be-swinging guy whose wife wants to sleep with guys I don't want to follow. Is that part of the deal, or am I right to demand some sort of veto authority?

Part of me says, hey, I wouldn't want her telling me "no" about someone I'd want to be with (Example: Carmen Electra because she's been with Fred Durst and/or Dennis Rodman). But the other part of me says wait, this is your spouse, and if you don't want them to be with a particular person, you ought to have SOME say on the issue. Or is that part of the trade-off of having your cake and eating it, too?

If I think about the flip side of the coin, I don't want her telling me "no." I feel like I ought to be able to sleep with whoever I find attractive, and that might mean someone she's not entirely comfortable with. But then I turn the tables and...well, I'm just not sure. Then it seems like a house of cards.

Sorry if this sounds terribly naive, but I'm confused. Help! Aside from the old "you have to decide for yourselves" response, I don't know what the norm is here!

[wrnakedru]

My answer: you darned betcha!
If there's something about a female and the way she conducts herself that makes me uncomfortable, I would be pretty durned upset if hubby continued to skip down the primrose path towards her.
And yes, it not only should go both ways - you shouldn't have to come up with some sort of "valid" reason. If you can't quite say why, or if you know exactly shouldn't matter. The fact is - that primary partner has to be held in honor- and that means honoring their feelings in this case.
Keep in mind too, that you really OWE it to your partner to keep them safe from somebody who gives you the heebie-jeebies. Don't be tempted to set those feelings aside simply because you find the man's wife quite appealing. Forego that particular pleasure out of deference to your wife's well being.
I'm a big believer in going with your gut instinct about folks. Those feelings are most often correct. [Unless you had something really spicey for dinner!] I think honoring your partner's wishes is the right thing to do, whether you play together or separately.
Of course, if one of you manages to find something wrong withanybody and everybody the other finds appealing - well, then there's something else working here. Then, all bets are off until that gets solved!

WR

Mrs naughty and I occasionaly "Take one for the team".

Of course there are DEFINATE limits to what that means but if one of us isnt willing then we wont.

[Spoomonkey]

It's funny - we were talking about this yesterday. We were talking about a certain situation and I made the statement that she had "the final say." She told me that she didn't like that kind of pressure and preferred that I had the final say. Realizing that we were talking about something that both of us have already come to terms with, I told her that it didn't matter because we each held a "veto".

Not only that, She has used hers - without any moaning on my part. If she's not comfortable, I don't question it.

We have another situation that seems to be brewing, but I have my veto card handy - and have told her so - because I have a few questions that I need answered first. Something strange is afoot; I can't quite put my finger on it, but something just doesn't smell right.

You have to have the veto. In our case, it is a matter of trust - knowing that our partner is going to be willing to put us first over any situation that arises. If I am just not comfortable with a situation - for whatever reason - I know that I would not have to drag my wife away kicking and screaming.

Spoomonkey

[VegasLee]

Laura and I do not set out looking to play with couples and this is one of the reasons. We feel it is to hard to find two other people that we both can agree on. We do end up with a copule now and then but it just happens and neither of us ever takes one for the team.

At the same time, I have seen her desire guys that I would have never thought she would have interest in yet it is HER choice. I have never thought about using "Veto" power to tell her she can not play with someone.

Even though she is the most important person in my life I do not feel it is my place to tell her what can or can not do.

Do I look out of her safety? Yes, but she has her own sense about people and if she did not feel safe with someone she would not play with them.

She is pretty good at picking out ladies that she knows I would have interest in but I found I suck at doing the same about picking out guys she might like. I know in general what she likes but there is times she gets interested in someone that does not even come close to what I would have picked or her normal tastes in men.

Just because I love her does not mean I rule her.

[HotCoupleGnS]

When you play as a couple, both of you have the same veto right. If I don't like someone I know I can so no. Same with hubby. It wouldn't be any fun if I knew hubby was just doing somehting b/c I wanted him to.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

I've sometimes thought more in terms of "I can't follow her" more than "eww not her" ~~~

Meaning, there have been more women that I'd veto because of my own ego than because of something negative about them. I always try to recognize that it's my ego being challenged and not veto those women. Almost always -- they were really nice girls and I ended up liking them too.

In our case though -- it is a matter of complete trust and comfort with each other and ourselves which some days is stronger than others.

[leftcoastcouple]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

Mrs naughty and I occasionaly "Take one for the team".

Of course there are DEFINATE limits to what that means but if one of us isnt willing then we wont.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about "taking one for the team." My wife and I have discussed that issue at length, and we've come to what we feel is a very agreeable solution (evolves around a 1-10 level of comfort, deviation of 2-3 points for flexibility, etc.). That's another discussion that's been covered ad nauseam, and I know everyone has their own opinions.

Here, I was really asking just the opposite. Let's say we meet a couple, find them attractive on initial contact, get along with them, etc. It all seems really good. But let's say that after talking with them, I (for the sake of example, because it could be the other way around) find something I don't like about the guy. I definitely want to play with the female half, but the guy bugs me because...I dunno. Perhaps he's arrogant? Mr. Macho? Wears too much gold jewelry? Reminds me of one of her ex-boyfriends? (Insert anything that you might find offensive. I'm just using random examples of what might bother me, none of which has happened--but could--and the substance of which is less important than the issue at hand. But they're essentially superficial things.).

So, other than something about the guy bugging me, we're all ready to go. We get along, there's attraction between me/her and my wife/him, we have enough in common to carry on a conversation, we "like" them, etc. But when I picture him with my wife, there's something about him that bugs me. So, I was asking, should that be a deal breaker? Or, I guess the real question is this: Am I being selfish if I say "no" at that point, since my wife's a big girl and, given that we've agreed to play with others, ought to be able to make up her own mind about who she wants to play with? Or, as Lee put it perfectly, "Just because I love her does not mean I rule her."

I hope I've made my question clearer. The fact that "taking one for the team" or that the other person might be icky made me feel like maybe I didn't get my point across originally. I'm not talking insecurities or threats here--more of a "I realize you're attracted to that person, but I just don't like something about that him/her" feeling.

Like I said previously, part of me thinks it's OK to say "no" on those grounds. Yet, if the tables were turned, and everything about a couple seemed perfect until my wife suddenly whispered to me, "I don't like her because of 'x,' so it's a no go," I don't know if I'd feel that way any longer.

Thanks for all the responses. As always, you guys are an invaluable source of help and information.

[HotCoupleGnS]

Between hubby & I, if either one of us says no, for whatever reason, it is a no go. But it has to go both ways. You can't expect her to be ok wiht that if you aren't.

[WesternSwing]

I know exactly what you are saying. I've looked at guys and said out loud "I wouldn't want to see you doing him." But, so far my wife has been in agreement with me on who these guys are. She has surprised me on occasion with guys she thinks is attractive, since they are so opposite me. They weren't turn-offs to me, just a surprise. But tastes vary. I'm not attracted to just one type of woman either.

Both of us hold veto power though, and if she said the same about a girl (and she has) I would not do it. I think if either of us ever did, then there would be problems because one of us would be putting the other second to the outsider.

Mr. WS

[DandS]

Left Coast,

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand your question and would say that yes you should have a veto card but it has to go both ways.

If you are going to play together as a couple you need to make sure both of you are completely comfortable with the other couple. If either one of you is uncomfortable or feeling pressured to do something it could negatively impact your play experience or cause resentment later.

Personally I know that I can tell my husband "I'm not comfortable with this" and even if he is attracted to the other female we will not do anything....no questions asked. Now, we will discuss these situations later and try to determine why one of us was uncomfortable with a given situation, just not in the heat of the moment.

my 2 cents for today, Mrs DandS

[BradAndJanet]

Originally Posted by DandS

...If either one of you is uncomfortable or feeling pressured to do something it could negatively impact your play experience or cause resentment later. ...

I couldn't say it any better than that.

We agree, each of us holds veto power. Funny thing is, we never talked about it until just now, but we both felt it was implied. It's good to know we concur, and thanks, leftcoastcouple, for bringing up the subject.

-B

[LadyCleo]

Hmmm...let's explore this a bit more...

Are you wanting to veto because of your own insecurity?
If so, I think that is a bit unfair.
How would you feel if you got a chance to "score" with the hottest chick (besides your wife) and she said no because the chick was hot?
You might not be too happy about that, right?

I understand you always wanting to be top dog, but baby, you are.
YOU are the one she comes home with. YOU are the one she loves.
YOU are the one she would quit the lifestyle for in a heartbeat if you asked.

If you are wanting to veto because there is something creepy that you cannot quite put your finger on, then yes, I think that is an appropriate use of the "veto" card.

For context, my husband and I are both picky. But he is the better judge of character. If there is someone that I'm interested in and hubby says no. I don't do it. There is a high level of trust there. I trust that he's vetoing because there is something wrong with that other person, not because my hubby thinks the guy is better than him. (There is NO way that will ever happen...)

Good luck to you!
LC

[leftcoastcouple]

Originally Posted by LadyCleo

Hmmm...let's explore this a bit more...

Are you wanting to veto because of your own insecurity?
If so, I think that is a bit unfair.
How would you feel if you got a chance to "score" with the hottest chick (besides your wife) and she said no because the chick was hot?
You might not be too happy about that, right?

I understand you always wanting to be top dog, but baby, you are.
YOU are the one she comes home with. YOU are the one she loves.
YOU are the one she would quit the lifestyle for in a heartbeat if you asked.

If you are wanting to veto because there is something creepy that you cannot quite put your finger on, then yes, I think that is an appropriate use of the "veto" card.

I'm glad you asked the question, and that you asked it in as detailed a fashion, LadyCleo. Because I specifically did NOT mean over insecurity. I initially was going to put "...because he's TOO hot..." in my examples of what "people" might find offensive about the other person, but I edited it out because I didn't want assumptions made that that was really the question behind my question. Because it wasn't.

Hell, I've said before, when we take the plunge (and when we did in the past), I want my wife to be with the hottest guy she can be with--or who she finds hottest, on whatever basis (looks, personality, sexual ability--all of it!). And we are 100% secure in our relationship--or else we wouldn't be here--so that's not an issue anyway. But the question was obviously a valid and perhaps obvious one.

Going back to the little "What about them?" game my wife and I play when we're out alone (which is rare, since we have young children!), she'll sometimes say "yes" about a guy who just bugs me for some reason. It could be anything. And it's usually something trivial. Maybe he has bad hair. Maybe he's a horrible dresser. Maybe he has an obnoxious laugh. Maybe he likes bad '80s hair metal. You name it. But if I view whatever trait that annoys me as a little ID card for his personality, and it's enough to bug me, I'd be inclined to say something to her.

My whole point in asking was, if we went ahead and played with someone like that, and I had thoughts afterwards like, "Ew, she was with THAT GUY," that would be hard for me to deal with. After all, she's my wife, not just somebody I screw recreationally. Anything that might make me feel alienated from her, like "following" a guy who I thought was gross, sends up a big old red flag in my mind.

Yet, if we set out to swing together, and I nix a guy she finds attractive for some hangup I have over him, that seems selfish and unfair. It seems she ought to be able to be with whomever she wants to be with, assuming the person is clean, healthy and safe. I don't think I should be calling the shots for her otherwise. After all, it's not just MY fantasy, it's OUR fantasy, and last I checked, she had free will.

Please understand that this is NOT a major issue with us. It's more of an amusement. When we play our game, it's like, "That person? Really, you would?" But not knowing how I (or she) would feel afterwards if either of us was with someone who bothered the other person, I felt it was worth asking.

Blah, blah, blah. I really do value everyone's posts. I didn't expect this much of a response, and I find it interesting and enlightening. Thanks!

[LadyCleo]

Originally Posted by leftcoastcouple

Going back to the little "What about them?" game my wife and I play when we're out alone (which is rare, since we have young children!), she'll sometimes say "yes" about a guy who just bugs me for some reason. It could be anything. And it's usually something trivial. Maybe he has bad hair. Maybe he's a horrible dresser. Maybe he has an obnoxious laugh. Maybe he likes bad '80s hair metal. You name it. But if I view whatever trait that annoys me as a little ID card for his personality, and it's enough to bug me, I'd be inclined to say something to her.

My whole point in asking was, if we went ahead and played with someone like that, and I had thoughts afterwards like, "Ew, she was with THAT GUY," that would be hard for me to deal with. After all, she's my wife, not just somebody I screw recreationally. Anything that might make me feel alienated from her, like "following" a guy who I thought was gross, sends up a big old red flag in my mind.

Trying not to scold here (I swear! ) but people, even married people have different taste. Just because she likes a guy who is a throwback to the 70s with gold chains and a hairy chest named Larry, doesn't mean that you have to. I think that being a bit less critical of her choices will make the experience better for the both of you.

Don't judge her on her taste. It's all about having fun. If she has fun with a guy that YOU don't find to fit your idea of attractive, does not mean that they aren't. AND she had fun...isn't THAT what it's all about?

LC