Can he leave the lifestyle?

[JC2you]

First off, I am not a swinger --- I honestly think I would be too jealous. I just need advice about my boyfriend who enjoyed swinging with his ex-wife. (They are now divorced.)

My boyfriend got introduced to swinging by a couple he and his ex-wife knew for years. They had group sex with them 6 times over a period of three years (4 times it was a 3-some w/o wife's knowledge, then the couple talked her into having group sex, which they did it 2 times.). This does not seem like a lot, but he said both couples started having children and eventually things died out. He told me the experience was "unbelievable" and was very turned on by watching his wife have sex with another man and woman, and loved screwing his friend's wife while he watched. None of this bothered me until he and I feel in love and he wanted me to be friends with this same couple.

I tried to be cool and convince myself I could deal with this and tried to go over to this couples house with him for a quick social visit. While there, they were cordial, but it was apparent to me (and my bf) that this woman did not want me there --she barely would look at me (even though I met her several times before dating my bf). I told my bf that I felt very uncomfortable.

Then, a few weeks later at a (non-swinging) party, this same couple was there. As soon as my bf and I walked in, she came over and kissed him on the lips and began to rub on his back, etc. It was like a knife went into my stomach! My bf picked up on the fact I was uncomfortable, so he got away from her and came and stood by me.

At this same party, her husband made sexual remarks to me and suggested that he and I go in the bedroom. Once again, I was very uncomfortable. I do not want to judge what others do -- I know people in the lifestyle and respect that, it is just that I don't feel I can share the one I love. I can be in our bedroom and share fantasies about it, but would not act on it. My bf understands this and although he has suggested that because certain things turn me on, he would support me bringing others in our bedroom. I told him those are just fantasies for me and I would never want that. I asked him if he was trying to talk me into the lifestyle. He said no (but secretly wonder if that is a true statement.) I asked him if he would want to swing again and he said he wouldnt because he loves me, wouldnt want to hurt me, would never do anything to risk losing me.

My question is: Can a person who enjoyed this experience so much ever trully walk away from it? He says he can and that part of his life is over, but I wonder if one woman (me) would keep him sexually intersted. (He assures me I am the hottest thing he has ever had.)

In addition: How can I be comfortable hanging around this swinging couple when I know my bf loved fucking this woman, and she is still after him? (He said they are just really good friends now, but he does agree that this couple would love to get him into bed again--especially now that he is single. He assures me he is not interested). I cannot shake the mental image of them having sex and do not want to be around this couple. He says he will stay away from them if it means losing me, but can he give up a friendship with people he has known for years? He said if they hit on us again, he will tell them to back off.

I need advice. Iy bf talks major fantasies while having sex and gets so turned on by "the talk" and what it would be like to screw other people, etc.
Is it possible that my bf is serious about giving up swinging and just being with one person (me)? What do I do about this couple? He can only stay away from them so much, but they are friends of his other friends too.

Any advice? Thanks so much in advance!

[Tarnished Halo]

Hello, I know others will have more pertinent advice for you, but I must add mine, having been there. I didn't speak up about some of the concerns, fears and questions that I had while my husband was verbalizing some of his wants desires and fantacies. For whatever reasons, I remained either silent or would unsuccessfully make some sort of feeble protest, hoping that it was just bedroom talk.
You absolutely MUST talk to him so he understands where you are. It may help you to clarify what you are thinking and feeling so that you can as a couple can resolve some of the things so that they don't become major issues, or damage your relationship. Clearly, he is expressing his concern for your welfare, which must be reassuring to you, but obviously, there are some doubts that you have. Writing these things down may help you get to the core of some of your concerns
As from a woman's point of view, if you are uncomfortable with the other woman, I would say trust your gut. It is seldom wrong.

I have discovered through counseling, that my thinking is kind of like a marble in a round pan. When I percieved that my husband was leading us (me) down a road that I didn't want to go, I made sure that my insecurities and fears kept that pan shaking!

Address these things now because if you do not, they will escalate into other issues that have nothing to do with swinging.
Best of all to you.
Tarnished

[Brit_Pair]

One of the details I did not discern from your account was the length of time you've been in this relationship. I got the impression that this is still a relatively new connection. If that notion is in error, then I apologise, but it occurs to me that a good deal of your insecurity might well stem from the fact that things between you and your boyfriend are still rather fresh.

To my mind, this whole question revolves around the issue of trust. You're effectively asking us if you can trust your boyfriend's assertions, that he is done with the lifestyle, that he is sexually done with this other couple, that he values the relationship with you more than he does his former activities. Unfortunately, there's no way to give you an answer with any real certainty. Personally, I'm unable to recount tales of friends who've left the lifestyle without a second glance, or of those who tried to leave, but were sucked back in time and again. There are others here who might be able to offer such information.

What I can say is that – from what you've told us – it seems that your boyfriend has been open and honest with you. He's told you about his experiences with his ex-wife, and with this other couple. At the party, he responded to your discomfort by distancing himself from this woman. He's been honest enough to share his fantasies with you, and he's been honest enough to talk you about the possibility of you taking part in the lifestyle together. He's also told you that he's prepared to put all of that in the past because you're more important to him, and he's even offered to stay away from people who have been his friends for a long time, rather than risk losing you.

So there are two issues for you to deal with. The first is whether or not **you** can believe him when he says that his swinging days are over. Aside from emasculating himself, he can only give you his word. Can you accept his word? If you can't, then your relationship is over before it's begun. Without trust, what's the point?

The second is this couple. The problem is not that he had sex with his friends. It's that you can't deal with it. Would you be the same if chance brought an old girlfriend across his path? He cannot apologise to you for every single relationship he had before he met you. The fact that this couple might still be pursuing him (and you) as sexual playmates is another matter. That can be addressed by his offer to tell them to "back off" if they make another move. There's no reason (beyond your discomfort with the past) that you can't all be friends. And if they fail to respect his request, then he will have to decide whether he wants to continue to have them in his life at the risk of upsetting you. Just because they share a mutual circle of friends with your boyfriend, doesn't mean they can't be avoided.

The ball is in *your* court. By all means, express your concerns to your boyfriend, make your position clear (though, again from what you've told us, it appears that you've already done that). But until he gives you solid reason to doubt his sincerity, I think you should stop worrying, and get on with enjoying your life with your boyfriend.

Good luck.

[Alura]

Where is your boyfriend's ex-wife now? Is she still friends with the other couple? Did the swinging have anything to do with the divorce?

The way I understand your post is this: Your boyfriend had a threesome four times without his ex-wife's knowledge and a foursome twice with his ex-wife involved.

If this is correct, his background does not bode well of his trustworthiness. Of course, that doesn't mean he will do the same with you. You must address this issue with him and find out for sure.

The other couple, particularly the wife, seems not to have given up on the concept of play with him. Since y'all are not yet married, and she knew him before he knew you, perhaps she sees you as an intruder. It seems apparent to me that your boyfriend hasn't yet talked with the other couple about your feelings about intermarital sex and they particularly, fully expect (or at least hope for) the relationship to continue as before.

First, you two need to talk about this issue and then he, or the two of you together, need to talk with them, explaining your feelings and your agreement for him to put swinging behind him.

Personally, I love Mrs. Alura more than life itself, and would certainly give up playing if she told me she wanted to quit. I doubt, though, that I'd ever forget, or quit yearning for, the fun we've had together with other couples.

Maybe y'all can work past this "incompatibility" and perhaps not. If you can, fantastic! If not, a split now might avoid a lot more heartaches in the future.

Mr. Alura

[JustAskJulie]

From the sounds of it, it's not your bf you need to worry about. It sounds like he really does care for you and is willing to walk away from swinging to be with you. And Yes, someone can do this if they are willing to. I think that most people here will tell you they would walk away in a heartbeat if their partner asked them to.

What really bothers me here is this other couple.

1. Has your bf been with them alone since his divorce? Ask him.
2. They obviously want to be with him again... and from the sounds of it are ok with you joining in. Has he talked to them about this? Again, ask him.

3. The hardest thing. You obviously aren't comfortable with this couple and won't be for understandable reasons.... they sound very pushy. You need to make sure that your bf knows this and make it clear that you do not wish to be around this couple.

The thing that really bothers me here is that you said that he was with this couple without his wife's knowledge previously... this bothers me because it makes me wonder if he won't do the same thing to you.

[JC2you]

My boyfriend told me that he and his ex-wife have not been with this couple sexually since the end of 2001. He did tell me that right before he and his wife broke up in 2003, they did spend the night at this couple's home because they were too drunk to drive. I told him it sounded pretty fishy to me -- no sex? He promised me it was the truth and that he and his wife left there home at 6:30 a.m. that next morning and the couples slept in separate rooms. Being how aggressive this couple is, I find it hard to believe, but he swears it is the truth.

I asked him why the swinging stopped in the end of 2001 with this couple and he told me it just died off, although this couple continually tried to hit on him and his wife. According to my boyfriend, it was just something he and his wife didnt want to do with this couple anymore. They started to have kids and with the timing and problems in their marriage, it was just something that was not something they made a priority.

Although the sex stopped with this couple in 2001, he did admit that he and his wife did talk about have threesomes and group sex with people didnt know. For example, if they went away on vacation and it just happened -- then that would be cool. He told me it never did happen though.

Just two days ago, my bf told me his ex-wife called him and told him that this couple had been bad mouthing her and saying she was not a good parent (this couple does not speak to his ex anymore). His ex asked my bf if he still talks to them and he said, "Not really, you know how we slowly got away from them -- they are a little too toxic for me." Funny thing is -- he had nothing but great things to say about them when we first started dating. He said they had been great friends of his and that he and this woman were very close. Now he sings a different tune.

He told me it was ME that helped him see that these people are too pushy and all about themselves. He even told me about how they put other people down all the time. He agree's with me that they are after us -- not because of friendship -- that is secondary. They want us for sex.

He promises me that although he has spoken to them on occassions since his divorce, he has had limited contact with them (meaning, no sex -- rather, just saw them at parties or spoke on the phone.) He said he has not talked to them in over a month and when he does see them or talk to them, he will keep it short and just let that friendship slowly die off. He said if they ever try to hit on him or us, he will let them know he and I are NOT intersted and that we not about that lifestyle. (I only wish he would have done it when they hit on us at the party. Instead, he did nothing, but rather, just got away from them. I told him that he was basically telling them it was OK to do that, and that he should have spoke up then. All he can say is that he is sorry and he should have handled it differently.)

You know....he is such a nice guy that I cannot see him being very forthright with these people. He says he will tell them -- we shall see. I just don't want to be around them EVER -- but know that he has a large group of friends (only a few are swingers) and if we avoid this couple, we would have to stay away from any party his other friends had.

Ugh. Thanks so much for listening to me and giving me advice. I really appreciate it.

[yawanna]

Same two things bother me, too Julie....he cheated on his ex-wife with this couple. I wonder if he ever confessed to his then wife and if it was before or after she joined in? and the behaviour of this couple is disconcerting.

The cheating issue in and of itself is very much worth some discussion, if it hasn't already.

The couple is another issue.

JC2you: Your b/f is saying all the right things a good partner needs to say in this situation. He is telling you a lot, and maybe more than the couple would think he would tell you? Which is a good thing - you two should know more about your lives and each other than any other person. What he's saying to you tells me that yes, he can walk away from these activities.

I think it's not uncommon when a single person (swinger or non) becomes involved in a serious relationship, for previous friends - singles or couples - to occasionally have some feelings of abandonment or jealousy over a perceived loss of the single friend. The single is now becoming a couple, and not everyone adapts well to the change.

Minimally, this couple isn't respecting your relationship with your b/f, and their behaviour isn't respectful of him or his choices either.

It sounds like your b/f hasn't had a 'talk' with them about their sexual activities with him or the both of you, and further, they aren't asking for the information, something any responsible couple would find out first, especially when their friend, your b/f, is obviously in a new relationship.

You two need to make decisions based on what is best for you, and the b/f needs to convey to this couple what that decision is. No need to explain the 'why'...it's really none of their business nor do they have a right to know. They obviously aren't supportive of your relationship, so I'd suggest keep them at arm's length, at least for a while.

I apologize if this posting reads a bit disjointed...I have people walking back and forth behind me here

I hope this is helpful to you

[JC2you]

Thanks.

He told me that he never told his wife about the 3-somes beforehand. I told him that was CHEATING and wrong!! He agrees with me and says that if he could change his past, he would. I asked him why he went back for more and he admits this was a GREAT experience, and that to him it was just sex and did not involve feelings. I told him it was still CHEATING and it makes me wonder what kind of husband he would really be! (I told him I felt sorry for his wife -- he didnt like that!)

Granted, I have brought him down a notch and if he didnt see what he did was wrong then, he does now.

Gosh, I really love this guy but I am so scared to get hurt. He cheated on his wife and was a swinger -- now I am asking him to be different with me. He says he loves me and deserves a chance at a better life and marriage than his first one and would never do anything to hurt me. I want to believe him, but you all have read my earlier posts. Can a person walk away from this life? Can one woman ever be enough to a man that enjoyed group sex? I have so many fears -- and he knows all of them.

I just cannot shake the image of the group sex thing. Every time I am forced to be around this couple (via a party, football game, etc.), I have an anxiety attack. Then the cutie swinging woman comes over and starts flirting with my boyfriend. Even has the nerve to kiss him on the lips! Ugh. Can I ever shake this? Can I trust he will never go there again?

You guys have been great! Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

[Alura]

Well, it seems to me, JC, that you're approaching this relationship with a good head on your shoulders and are not ready to jump into a marriage until these questions are satisfied in your mind. If I'm right, that's a good thing. You need to be sure.

In the meantime, here are some thoughts I have. Feel free to discard them if you feel I'm operating from limited knowledge. For sure, I am, and don't feel you have to respond to any of these questions.

Swinging and cheating don't go together, although I'm sure it's happened. In my opinion, swinging requires both partners. If one is left out, it's cheating.

Do you know his ex-wife? I have the impression y'all live in a fairly small town since you said y'all run into the other couple at football game and parties, but that may not be accurate either.

Have you ever heard his ex-wife's side of the story about the divorce and the two times they played with the other couple? I'm not suggesting that you seek her out and ask, but it might be helpful to know if he pressured her into into it, or allowed the other couple to, and if the incidents had any bearing on their divorce.

Do you know the chronology of events of his swinging with the other couple? It would be quite different if the threesomes came first followed by the foursomes than if the foursomes came first and he continued to play (cheat) after his wife put a stop to it.

How long has he been divorced? Were you married before? Are there children involved?

My experience has been that swingers are generally deeply in love and neither would consider cheating. The one time in our experiences that this was not the case, a thirty-year marriage ended abruptly. The wife left her husband and moved in with a married man she worked with. We've not seen her since, but the most recent thing I heard, her ex-husband found a wonderful (to him, at least) lady and married her. His ex-wife's new lover went back to his wife and kids.

I think you are handling this situation the way you should and wish you the best of luck. Hopefully, everything will turn out just the way you want it to.

Mr. Alura

[MrsBliss]

You bf sounds very honest at this time and of course it is possible that he made mistakes in the past. Just talk it through.

I am worried about the other couple, to be sure he should outright tell them that he does not want to have any physical contact with them/her. It is very upsetting for you that every time you see them you get the shivers.

Do you think there is any possibility that you would be interested in the lifestyle when your relationship is strengthened and longer? Not with this couple of course, but maybe with someone else.

[SexhoundDog]

JC2You,

I can't help but wonder if the wife of this couple is trying to make you uncomfortable somehow. It appears the both of them have certainly succeeded, and you might be right, your boyfriend will never officially tell them he doesn't wish to be friends. But, I guess you can tell him you simply aren't interested in the friendship and if he wants to do things with them, to do so without you. I agree with most of the other posters that he would probably tell you the truth and no sexual activity would go on.

However, I also gather he wouldn't mind a swinging experience again either. It doesn't sound like you are remotely interested in it, so he'll have to deal with your feelings. Or are you just not interested in swinging with this couple and you might entertain it later if you clicked with the right people? That's definitely something to discuss with your bf just to get his reaction, assuming you'd be OK with it, don't you think?

[SexhoundDog]

Wow! I hadn't seen Mrs. Bliss' post while I was writing this one. 2 people halfway around the world thinking the same thing! What are the odds?<EG>

[MrsBliss]

Originally posted by SexhoundDog
Wow! I hadn't seen Mrs. Bliss' post while I was writing this one. 2 people halfway around the world thinking the same thing! What are the odds?<EG>

Odds are very small, but it happens...

[Amy and Mike]

this is mike...the male half.

there's a couple of things that would concern me. while its a good thing that your boyfriend seems to so concerned about your feelings, from what you've said it still sounds like he's hoping that you're going to warm up to the idea of swinging. When you said "MAJOR fantasizing" in bed, does that mean every time you have sex? if so, i'd say that its a pretty sure sign that this is something he wants to happen for real and not just a fun fantasy. fantasy is great and can make sex more exciting sometimes, but if he can't just enjoy the two of you together, then i'd say you have some things to work out with him.

as far as this other couple goes, in my opinion they're completely rude. if i were in your shoes, i'd cut them out of my life completely and ask your boyfriend to do the same. you're his first priority (or should be), and anyone who's that disrespectful of your feelings shouldn't be a part of either of your lives.

i think you need to make it clear to your boyfriend that you absolutely do NOT want to be involved in swinging, now or EVER... and that he needs to lighten up on the fantasy stuff when the two of you are having sex, if not cut it out completely for a while.

and at the very least, he needs to talk to this other couple and tell them that neither one of you are interested in having sex with them, now or ever...and that he sees the way they are acting as disrespectful to you and will not tolerate it.

[Mich149]

I agree with everything posted here before. I just wanted to add that IF he truly loves you, one woman WILL be enough for him. It may always be a fantasy of his, but the emotional commitment and connection with you will make whatever the two of you do enough to satisfy. Just make sure you're as honest with him as you want him to be with you. He sounds like he's a good guy, just don't let the past spook you.