How to get a husband who wants to swinging to stop trying to convince the wife? - Page 3

Elusive BiFem · 10-20-2003, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yawanna
flummoxed

Always strikes me strange that anti swingers sometimes head STRAIGHT for a swinger site....

flummoxed..................Cool word!

I Like it!

Heading straight for a swinger's site? Kind of like not wanting to look at an accident scene on the side of the road...but you just can't turn your eyes away....I think. Maybe? But sometimes people come here just to learn, explore, expand their horizons, make informed decisions. Those that come with closed minds, preconceived attitudes, negativity, yet asking for "help"...those are the people that confuse us.

We use our time to give honest answers about what works for us individually...and it is ignored or ridiculed. Ouch!!

- EBF

EternallySingle · 10-21-2003, 12:15 AM

You are in love with a man you cannot live with. The fact that you love him has blinded you to how he really feels about your feelings and your place in his life. You say that you really don't argue except about swinging, but he refuses to accept that you don't want to swing. You say you get along great, but he insists on bringing up a topic that not only makes you uncomfortable but scares and confuses you. I am sorry, but you have avoided the truth about your relationship, and that is that it is in trouble.

If this were a matter that concerned money or your inlaws or the jobs you held, you would have IMMEDIATELY gone to someone, either your pastor or a professional conselor, for advice on how to overcome this one issue. But its about sex. More importantly, a sexual lifestyle that few understand and fewer are able to last long in. Because it is about sex, and you said you don't believe in casual sex, you are embarrassed to seek help from those who are QUALIFIED to help you, so you turn to us.

I am sorry, but we cannot help you. The only thing we can do is tell you what we have experienced in our lives and what we understand from what you have wirtten.

I have a short story to tell you. Five years ago I met a woman, quite by accident, who eventually became a swing partner. I found out she was in the lifestyle a year later because we were invited to the same party in Ohio, but were invited seperately. Up until that point we were just friends. Close but friends. Fastforward two year later and we were on our way to becoming more than friends. Then we were both offered really good jobs. Me in Grand Rapids and her in Los Angeles. We took the jobs and a year later she got married. Still trying to live the lifestyle, she introduced her new husband to me and some of her old swing friends. After a racketball match, I got the feeling her husband was not impressed with the lifestyle. The last time I talked to them, she had just had a baby and had given up swinging. Why? Because she felt being with him was more important that than having recreational sex.

THAT is how someone with a healthy attitude deals with someone who has a different opinion about something as charged as swinging. And as much as it may offend you to hear this, your husband, despite how much you feel he loves you, doesn't seem to be able to make that decision. Either that, or you are jerking us around. Either way, it is your life and, take it from someone who almost died recently, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON WHAT YOU NEED TO FEEL HAPPY AND SECURE! Even if it means leaving your husband and finding someone else who shares your sexual beliefs.

yawanna · 10-21-2003, 12:57 AM

omg bravo EBF and ES

Geez y'all (many posters) could take some of your posts and write a BOOK.

Gawd I luv this board

You help so much in so many ways.

yawanna · 10-21-2003, 12:59 AM

...or could I at least have y'all to dinner?? what an evening THAT would be

fun_pairTX · 10-21-2003, 03:22 AM

Wow I haven't read that word since Rex Stout died and subsequently stopped writing novels.

mrbandsatl · 10-21-2003, 08:28 AM

The answer to your problem is simple and has been offered several times. Get help, or get out. Either way stay away from swinging or any other activity that requires advanced communication skills.

Sorry for being so harsh but I am guessing this site is becomming, or has been from the begginning, a source of amusement for ricndi032903.

The fact that some people get off on pushing other people's buttons is the REAL mystery to me.

Elusive BiFem · 10-21-2003, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bobandsandy

Sorry for being so harsh but I am guessing this site is becomming, or has been from the begginning, a source of amusement for ricndi032903.

You may be right, bobandsandy, but somehow I don't think so. Of course, if anyone can be wrong about that type of stuff, it's me! Seems there is a lot of anger and emotion in the posts...more than you see when someone is posting just to push buttons. But if your're right, she/he pushed some buttons!

- EBF

ricndi032903 · 10-21-2003, 09:42 AM

1. I'm not anti swinging.

if it works for you, then fine, if not, then fine,

my hubby loves peas, do I? no. Do I prepare them for him. yes. Do I eat them with him, no way, there gross.

Simply put, to each their own.

2. I'm as open minded as the next person, for if not I doubt I'd be here or with him, or even trying to gain any understanding what-so-ever on something he wants. But also trying to make him understand where I'm coming from and that if you play with fire, your bound to get burnt.

He thinks that us having sex with other people will enhance our sex life, make us closer, and yet maybe I'm fooling myself by thinking that our sex life and life is already great and that we as a couple are as close as anybody can possibly be.

When he brags/ tells me how he never cheated on his first wife of 22 years and never asked her about swinging (even though it's been in his mind forever) and then tells me how special I am that he's even asking about this, which makes me feel offended that he didn't ask his 1st wife, in some backwards way of thinking on my part; that him asking me, is making me dirty and keeping the mother of his kids clean.

But then at the same time, I kinda feel honored that he asked me and not her, that he trusted me and not anyone else, his reason for not asking her was, that she was sexually dead from the neck down and therefore why even ask when she didn't want sex to begin with....and for that I can understand.

So I research all aspects of swinging, in hopes that I might be able to find something, some part of his fantacy that I can share with him, so that I feel safe and it's not threatening to our relationship.

I tell him that I'm only comfy with voyeurism and expo. he says ok, that he doesn't need or want another woman, and then in the same breath says but how much fun it could be and how strange and exciting it would be. So he's basicly saying he doesn't want anyone else, but that he really does.

I just want to yell at him; shit or get off the pot. He used double talk. And that is what confuses me and why I come here and ask the questions I've asked, and the one poster was right, this clearly isn't something I can go ask my pastor about.... it's embarrassing to say the least. And of course knowing how people gosup at church, my kids would know about it. A professional sex therapist, thought about that, but would hate for a session to turn into a gang up on Di event or hate it even more if it turned into a gang up on Ric event.

Ya know, I buy and prepared peas for my husband, not because I want to eat them, but because he wants them, he loves them and I buy and prepare them for him because I love him. But ya know, years ago before we met, he hit himself in the balls with a sledge hammer, was I there to see it? No, is it something I want him to do for me? No, why? cause it hurt him, Do I sit there and tell him to do it so it can make me feel like the "better woman" , no, if it hurt him, then I want no part of it.

How could I possibly view having sex with others as cheating? well maybe because in the past 2 major relationships I've had, I was cheated on and him wanting this is the same as cheating, but with a twist, get the wives permission and then it's not cheating. and at the same time, give her your pernmission to have sex with someone and then you don't feel so guilty. Why? cause your both having sex with someone else. So why get married, just have an open relationship.

It's like I've said before, he thinks one way on this, and I think my way, but also I'm the one trying to see his side of it, trying to open my eyes even more, when he fails to see my side, but my common sence says and tells me after seeing his ex wife and hearing the horrable stories about his marriage to her and weighing what he had then and what he has now, and how much better we have it together, it's enough to make a crazy person saine in trying to figure him and this out.

But I do thank you for trying to give me a better understanding and in many ways you have, you've all helped and not in just siding with him or me, but in showing me your human, caring side to even reply at all.

thanks
Di

**Alura** · 10-21-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ricndi032903

But then at the same time, I kinda feel honored that he asked me and not her, that he trusted me and not anyone else...

Alright, Di! Communication and trust is what marriage is all about whether swinging is involved or not.

So I research all aspects of swinging, in hopes that I might be able to find something, some part of his fantacy that I can share with him, so that I feel safe and it's not threatening to our relationship.

I tell him that I'm only comfy with voyeurism and expo. he says ok, that he doesn't need or want another woman, and then in the same breath says but how much fun it could be and how strange and exciting it would be. So he's basicly saying he doesn't want anyone else, but that he really does.

There are a lot of swingers who only participate in "soft swing." I'm not sure exactly what that is because it seems to have a different definition for each couple involved but I think it never involves exchanging spouses for intercourse. Perhaps that is a compromise both of you could live with if you do enough research and agree on the rules.

But I do thank you for trying to give me a better understanding and in many ways you have, you've all helped and not in just siding with him or me, but in showing me your human, caring side to even reply at all.

thanks
Di

You're welcome. The people on this board are always glad to help, Di. They really do care, even if they disagree.

Mr. Alura

**Alura** · 10-21-2003, 10:31 AM

Just one more thing, Di, which I don't think has been sufficiently covered. There are a lot of fun things about swinging that have nothing to do with sexual intercourse. As an example, I'd like to ask you to read the thread, "Midwest Meet-Up! II 10/18" in the "Meet Up!" Forum. That forum has been very successful in getting people together for a "no strings attached" meeting, usually a dinner in a restaurant. The Mid-Westerners just had a great one in Dayton, Ohio.

I haven't figured out how to create a link or I'd make it easier for you to find it.

Mr. Alura

Elusive BiFem · 10-21-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alura

I haven't figured out how to create a link or I'd make it easier for you to find it.

Mr. Alura

At your service, Mr. Alura...I finally figured this link stuff out!

Click HERE for the link to the Midwest Meet Up.

- EBF

bear_n_bunny · 10-23-2003, 08:23 AM

Di,

Someone suggested I weigh in on this, so here goes...

Actually, after reading through this thread, there is not just a whole lot to add. Most of what needed to be said to you already has been.

Your reaction to the whole concept of swinging is not unusual. My ex-wife feels as you do about it, even to the point of wanting to puke, as you mentioned in an earlier thread. Of course, knowing her as I did, I knew better than to even bring up the subject, let alone try to talk her into it. After we divorced, I got into swinging and later told her about it (we are still friends). She was so outraged she didn't know whether to shit or go blind. And her reaction is the common one among most women to the idea of swinging.

Anthropologically speaking, women have been hard-wired, so to speak, to tend to latch on to one mate, and keep to that one mate, just as men tend have the evolution-driven urge to spread their DNA around as much as possible. Plus, societies in general tend to place a lot of importance on marital fidelity and maintaining an intact marriage. No matter what culture on this planet one examines, they all have the institution of marriage in one form or another, and a lot of importance is placed on same within a social group.

There is nothing wrong with this. Marriage as an institution would not have existed throughout human history unless those participating in it were getting more good than bad from the practice. And truth be known, most women, and not a few men, feel as you do about the swinging lifestyle. So be it.

However, there is a small segment of the married population that has, for whatever reason, moved beyond the usual evolutionary and social strictures regarding sex. These couples, such as you find here, have discovered that it is indeed possible for sex to be a purely recreational activity, freely shared by both marriage partners, with other married couples, and a good time is had by all, etc.

And the thing is, swing couples do not love each other less, nor is their lovemaking any less important and special than with a non-swing couple. It is simply that they have found that you can indeed engage in social activity with another couple or couples which includes mutually consensual, pleasureable and fun recreational sex, and that both the man and the woman can engage in this enjoyably (and make no mistake, there is a helluva lot more to swinging than just fucking). And it is not for everyone, and no one with more than two brain cells to rub together would think otherwise.

But then we come to Ric and Di. Based on everything I've read from you (Di) on this thread, it is clear that Ric is one of the leading assholes in the state of Pennsylvania (if I recall the state correctly; if not, just fill in the name of whatever state you do live in). If what you have said is true, about the arguments, yelling, crying (!?!?) and so forth that he's done to coerce you into playing, when he already knows how you feel about the idea, then in my not-so-humble opinion he should be taken out and shot, if for no other reason than to clean out the shallow end of the gene pool. To me, and I'll wager damn near everyone else on this board, the idea of someone forcing, by whatever means, their spouse to engage in an activity that she finds repugnant is so over the top as to be beyond belief. To say he should be ashamed of himself would be an understatement.

As for you, dear Di, not to put too fine a point on it, but you are an IDIOT! Jesus H. Christ, woman, have you never heard of the word "NO"?!?! You let this clown yell, cry, scream and whine until you gave in and did something that, by your own admission, made you want to vomit? You NEVER, EVER let ANYONE coerce you into doing ANYTHING you don't want to do, especially of such a personal, intimate nature. To let him do that is so stupid as to be beyond belief. There are certain lines that you just don't cross in a marriage, and BOTH of you have crossed them. Do NOT make that mistake again.

I have one word of advice for you, sweetie. This weekend, after the kids are asleep and all that, you go take a nice bath, put on some of his favorite perfume, slip into your favorite sexy nightie, and go to that bonehead you are married to and climb into his lap. Then you shove your tits in his face to get his attention, then you lean back, point down at your pussy and say "Darling, you see this? Because I love you, that, along with the rest of me (a nice sexy wiggle of the tits and ass would be good at this point), is for you and you alone, now and forever. And I don't want to hear one more fucking word out of you about this swinging crap. It's not gonna happen, it's a dead issue, period. And if you can't handle this, then as much as I love you, don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out."

Either of two things will happen. Either he will straighten up and fly right, concentrating his energies on making the two of you happy together (I would still suggest marriage counseling for both of you), or he will leave (or you throw him out because he won't shut the fuck up about it), in which case you are well rid of him. Then you can go find yourself a man whose thought processes are more to your liking.

There is really nothing more to say. Have a nice life, hon...

-- Bear

Elusive BiFem · 10-23-2003, 08:47 AM

And I will admit, Di, I am the one that asked Bear to take a look at this thread. I strongly suspected his opinons would be similar to mine and others, but I didn't try to "influence" him one way or the other. I merely asked him to take a look at it...for your benefit as well as mine...wondering if I was missing the boat somewhere.

Bear has a way of cutting through the crap and getting at the heart of the matter with words in ways that many of us can't. More than once, his posts have caused me to look at things differently, and sometimes open my eyes to things I just couldn't see. Sorta like that thing of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

That being said...I hope you will take his words to heart. I can't imagine being in the situation you are in. Whether you helped create the situation or not...the way you feel now is what is most important and we've all created situations for ourselves that we later wished we could un-create. Life in action.

I sincerely wish you the best and I would also like to suggest that regardless of the outcome...spend some time here...read the different threads and comments. Not for the purpose of changing your mind, but for the purpose of gaining some degree of understanding and to learn that swinging is about more than just sex for the vast majority of us. If nothing else...some of us have formed close friendships with people we may never meet. And that's just part of it.

- EBF

sportync · 10-23-2003, 11:22 AM

My, this has been a facinating couple of pages! I will try to refrain from repeating what a lot of people have already said, but there are some thoughts I have that haven't shown up yet. It seems to me that the sexual activity in a lot of marriages is pretty much controlled by the person with the lowest sex drive. That may very well explain why a lot of men tend to stray into affairs...they just aren't getting the stimulation that they feel they should. The sexual activity of most couples is fairly intense during the beginning of a relationship, yet tends to slow down as the years progress. One member of the couple doesn't require as much sexual satisfaction as the other, so the one with the lowest sex drive becomes the one behind the wheel. The other person then starts to feel like they are missing something. "I have pledged faithfulness to my wife, yet I know that when I go home tonight there isn't a snbowball's chance in hell of me getting any".
They then realize that they have absolutely no control over their own sexuality within the marriage...it's all up to the little woman as to when, where and how they will have sex. They have, by this time, seen their wife naked countless times, and realize that they will never again have the opportunity to see another woman naked and in their arms. The eroticism that was present in their early lovemaking is gone and is replaced by a comfortable feeling of safety and reassurance, but where is the excitment, the eroticism, the fun? This sacred act of love which is only shared with the one you have pledged your heart to becomes little more than scratching an itch or a good sneeze. Gone is the excitment, the nervous energy, the eroticism, the feeling of wonder and discovery, or even the naughtiness that comes from first-time experiences. So, the guy strays, not because he doesn't love his wife anymore, but because he craves the feeling of excitment that used to accompany sexual activity. His wife soon feels that something isn't right. He's not paying her much attention and soon she begins to feel neglected. She catches him in a few lies. Pretty soon, some other guy begins to give her the attention she isn't getting from hubby and before she knows it, this lothario has gotten her slightly drunk and is banging the hell out of her.
This is normal. If you consider normal to be 50% or more of the whole. Just look at how many lawyers are filthy rich because of cheating husbands and wives. This may explain why a lot of people decide to swing. They just want to revive the excitment in their sex-lives. It's been said that you can take the most beautiful, sexy woman in the world and there is one man who will not get excited at the thought of seeing her nude, or climbing into his bed....the guy who's been married to her for the last 7 or 8 years! Not to say that this is right, but it seems to be basic human nature. We tend to want that which we do not have.
A lot of those within the swinging community have overcome this basic human weakness with something which they can share together, and many of them say that the best sex is with their own partner after the swing session is over.
I know that I will not change the way you feel about swinging and I have no intention of even trying...the choice is entirely yours to make. I just wanted to try to put a few things into some perspective so that maybe you can understand where Ric may be coming from. We control every aspect of our fantasies, but little of our actual lives. But take away our fantasies, and what do we have left that we can control? Just a little food for thought. I wasn't offended by anything you posted, and I hope that I don't offend you, but you two don't just need to talk, you need to listen as well. Sportync

tmyis · 10-29-2003, 05:42 PM

Wow, what great stuff. I only recently found this board and have never posted before, but I feel compelled to write.

I have been married for 7 years. I love my wife. I also think Sportync said something that I have kind of felt for years, but haven't ever really seen with such clarity. I have to agree that it is interesting that the sexuality within a relationship is bounded and controlled by the partner with the lower sex drive. It can make it frustrating for the partner with the greater sex drive. But I can understand why this is. It is probably largely due to our rather puritan society which probably assigns more moral "rightness" in the camp of a totally monogamous relationship. Society tends to treat sex in a less than positive way in my opinion, so again, the person with the lower sex drive draws comfort and strength that they are "right". There are also many good arguments for a monogamous relationship, but that is for another thread.

Di - in my case, I do have desires to participate in some form of swinging relationship. I hinted at my desires a few years ago and could tell that my wife had pretty strong feelings to the contrary. That was the end of the conversation and I have not pushed since. That is largely because I love her, respect her, and can tell that this is a battle that I will not win through any type of coercion on my part. And while I can understand your husband's desires I have to wonder if he is like me, or if he really is an unreasonable person.

He could be like me. I love my wife but have physical attractions for other women. It is pretty simple. I could have sexual interactions with other people but still quite contentedly cuddle up to my wife at night. I love her for many more reasons than sex. If I felt that I could persuade my wife into some form of adventurous open lifestyle, I would. But I don't think I can so I don't. Perhaps your husband pushes because you are sending mixed signals. I realize that you probably don't think you are sending any, but consider the possibility.

The alternative is that he isn't like me. Perhaps he is very clear about your limits and he continues to push. If this is the case, then I have to agree with everyone else. Your husband suffers from a lack of sensitivity and doesn't possess the level of respect required for a healthy marriage. Counseling would be in order.

As for all who have posted on this thread, I am impressed by your responses and openness.

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10-21-2003, 12:15 AM	#32 (permalink)
EternallySingle Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,035 Location: Michigan Status: Single Male Swing Lifestyle Name:ABSingleMan	I feel sorry for you You are in love with a man you cannot live with. The fact that you love him has blinded you to how he really feels about your feelings and your place in his life. You say that you really don't argue except about swinging, but he refuses to accept that you don't want to swing. You say you get along great, but he insists on bringing up a topic that not only makes you uncomfortable but scares and confuses you. I am sorry, but you have avoided the truth about your relationship, and that is that it is in trouble. If this were a matter that concerned money or your inlaws or the jobs you held, you would have IMMEDIATELY gone to someone, either your pastor or a professional conselor, for advice on how to overcome this one issue. But its about sex. More importantly, a sexual lifestyle that few understand and fewer are able to last long in. Because it is about sex, and you said you don't believe in casual sex, you are embarrassed to seek help from those who are QUALIFIED to help you, so you turn to us. I am sorry, but we cannot help you. The only thing we can do is tell you what we have experienced in our lives and what we understand from what you have wirtten. I have a short story to tell you. Five years ago I met a woman, quite by accident, who eventually became a swing partner. I found out she was in the lifestyle a year later because we were invited to the same party in Ohio, but were invited seperately. Up until that point we were just friends. Close but friends. Fastforward two year later and we were on our way to becoming more than friends. Then we were both offered really good jobs. Me in Grand Rapids and her in Los Angeles. We took the jobs and a year later she got married. Still trying to live the lifestyle, she introduced her new husband to me and some of her old swing friends. After a racketball match, I got the feeling her husband was not impressed with the lifestyle. The last time I talked to them, she had just had a baby and had given up swinging. Why? Because she felt being with him was more important that than having recreational sex. THAT is how someone with a healthy attitude deals with someone who has a different opinion about something as charged as swinging. And as much as it may offend you to hear this, your husband, despite how much you feel he loves you, doesn't seem to be able to make that decision. Either that, or you are jerking us around. Either way, it is your life and, take it from someone who almost died recently, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON WHAT YOU NEED TO FEEL HAPPY AND SECURE! Even if it means leaving your husband and finding someone else who shares your sexual beliefs.
	__________________ "Style is not lusting after somone because they are cool. Style is loving yourself till everyone else does too." Prince

10-21-2003, 03:22 AM	#35 (permalink)
fun_pairTX Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,185 Location: Ennis, Texas Status: Couple	Flummoxed Wow I haven't read that word since Rex Stout died and subsequently stopped writing novels.
	__________________ fun_pairTX

10-23-2003, 11:22 AM	#44 (permalink)
sportync Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 232 Location: eastern north carolina	My, this has been a facinating couple of pages! I will try to refrain from repeating what a lot of people have already said, but there are some thoughts I have that haven't shown up yet. It seems to me that the sexual activity in a lot of marriages is pretty much controlled by the person with the lowest sex drive. That may very well explain why a lot of men tend to stray into affairs...they just aren't getting the stimulation that they feel they should. The sexual activity of most couples is fairly intense during the beginning of a relationship, yet tends to slow down as the years progress. One member of the couple doesn't require as much sexual satisfaction as the other, so the one with the lowest sex drive becomes the one behind the wheel. The other person then starts to feel like they are missing something. "I have pledged faithfulness to my wife, yet I know that when I go home tonight there isn't a snbowball's chance in hell of me getting any". They then realize that they have absolutely no control over their own sexuality within the marriage...it's all up to the little woman as to when, where and how they will have sex. They have, by this time, seen their wife naked countless times, and realize that they will never again have the opportunity to see another woman naked and in their arms. The eroticism that was present in their early lovemaking is gone and is replaced by a comfortable feeling of safety and reassurance, but where is the excitment, the eroticism, the fun? This sacred act of love which is only shared with the one you have pledged your heart to becomes little more than scratching an itch or a good sneeze. Gone is the excitment, the nervous energy, the eroticism, the feeling of wonder and discovery, or even the naughtiness that comes from first-time experiences. So, the guy strays, not because he doesn't love his wife anymore, but because he craves the feeling of excitment that used to accompany sexual activity. His wife soon feels that something isn't right. He's not paying her much attention and soon she begins to feel neglected. She catches him in a few lies. Pretty soon, some other guy begins to give her the attention she isn't getting from hubby and before she knows it, this lothario has gotten her slightly drunk and is banging the hell out of her. This is normal. If you consider normal to be 50% or more of the whole. Just look at how many lawyers are filthy rich because of cheating husbands and wives. This may explain why a lot of people decide to swing. They just want to revive the excitment in their sex-lives. It's been said that you can take the most beautiful, sexy woman in the world and there is one man who will not get excited at the thought of seeing her nude, or climbing into his bed....the guy who's been married to her for the last 7 or 8 years! Not to say that this is right, but it seems to be basic human nature. We tend to want that which we do not have. A lot of those within the swinging community have overcome this basic human weakness with something which they can share together, and many of them say that the best sex is with their own partner after the swing session is over. I know that I will not change the way you feel about swinging and I have no intention of even trying...the choice is entirely yours to make. I just wanted to try to put a few things into some perspective so that maybe you can understand where Ric may be coming from. We control every aspect of our fantasies, but little of our actual lives. But take away our fantasies, and what do we have left that we can control? Just a little food for thought. I wasn't offended by anything you posted, and I hope that I don't offend you, but you two don't just need to talk, you need to listen as well. Sportync
	__________________ this ain't no dress rehearsal

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10-21-2003, 12:57 AM	#33 (permalink)
yawanna Has Left the Building Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,176 Location: Canada Status: married female	omg bravo EBF and ES Geez y'all (many posters) could take some of your posts and write a BOOK. Gawd I luv this board You help so much in so many ways.

10-21-2003, 12:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
yawanna Has Left the Building Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,176 Location: Canada Status: married female	...or could I at least have y'all to dinner?? what an evening THAT would be

10-21-2003, 08:28 AM	#36 (permalink)
mrbandsatl For fun and each other... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 248 Location: USA Status: Couple	The answer to your problem is simple and has been offered several times. Get help, or get out. Either way stay away from swinging or any other activity that requires advanced communication skills. Sorry for being so harsh but I am guessing this site is becomming, or has been from the begginning, a source of amusement for ricndi032903. The fact that some people get off on pushing other people's buttons is the REAL mystery to me.

10-21-2003, 09:42 AM	#38 (permalink)
ricndi032903 Active Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 30 Location: PA Status: Couple	1. I'm not anti swinging. if it works for you, then fine, if not, then fine, my hubby loves peas, do I? no. Do I prepare them for him. yes. Do I eat them with him, no way, there gross. Simply put, to each their own. 2. I'm as open minded as the next person, for if not I doubt I'd be here or with him, or even trying to gain any understanding what-so-ever on something he wants. But also trying to make him understand where I'm coming from and that if you play with fire, your bound to get burnt. He thinks that us having sex with other people will enhance our sex life, make us closer, and yet maybe I'm fooling myself by thinking that our sex life and life is already great and that we as a couple are as close as anybody can possibly be. When he brags/ tells me how he never cheated on his first wife of 22 years and never asked her about swinging (even though it's been in his mind forever) and then tells me how special I am that he's even asking about this, which makes me feel offended that he didn't ask his 1st wife, in some backwards way of thinking on my part; that him asking me, is making me dirty and keeping the mother of his kids clean. But then at the same time, I kinda feel honored that he asked me and not her, that he trusted me and not anyone else, his reason for not asking her was, that she was sexually dead from the neck down and therefore why even ask when she didn't want sex to begin with....and for that I can understand. So I research all aspects of swinging, in hopes that I might be able to find something, some part of his fantacy that I can share with him, so that I feel safe and it's not threatening to our relationship. I tell him that I'm only comfy with voyeurism and expo. he says ok, that he doesn't need or want another woman, and then in the same breath says but how much fun it could be and how strange and exciting it would be. So he's basicly saying he doesn't want anyone else, but that he really does. I just want to yell at him; shit or get off the pot. He used double talk. And that is what confuses me and why I come here and ask the questions I've asked, and the one poster was right, this clearly isn't something I can go ask my pastor about.... it's embarrassing to say the least. And of course knowing how people gosup at church, my kids would know about it. A professional sex therapist, thought about that, but would hate for a session to turn into a gang up on Di event or hate it even more if it turned into a gang up on Ric event. Ya know, I buy and prepared peas for my husband, not because I want to eat them, but because he wants them, he loves them and I buy and prepare them for him because I love him. But ya know, years ago before we met, he hit himself in the balls with a sledge hammer, was I there to see it? No, is it something I want him to do for me? No, why? cause it hurt him, Do I sit there and tell him to do it so it can make me feel like the "better woman" , no, if it hurt him, then I want no part of it. How could I possibly view having sex with others as cheating? well maybe because in the past 2 major relationships I've had, I was cheated on and him wanting this is the same as cheating, but with a twist, get the wives permission and then it's not cheating. and at the same time, give her your pernmission to have sex with someone and then you don't feel so guilty. Why? cause your both having sex with someone else. So why get married, just have an open relationship. It's like I've said before, he thinks one way on this, and I think my way, but also I'm the one trying to see his side of it, trying to open my eyes even more, when he fails to see my side, but my common sence says and tells me after seeing his ex wife and hearing the horrable stories about his marriage to her and weighing what he had then and what he has now, and how much better we have it together, it's enough to make a crazy person saine in trying to figure him and this out. But I do thank you for trying to give me a better understanding and in many ways you have, you've all helped and not in just siding with him or me, but in showing me your human, caring side to even reply at all. thanks Di

10-21-2003, 10:31 AM	#40 (permalink)
Alura Just a hick Okie Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,144 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Status: Widower	Just one more thing, Di, which I don't think has been sufficiently covered. There are a lot of fun things about swinging that have nothing to do with sexual intercourse. As an example, I'd like to ask you to read the thread, "Midwest Meet-Up! II 10/18" in the "Meet Up!" Forum. That forum has been very successful in getting people together for a "no strings attached" meeting, usually a dinner in a restaurant. The Mid-Westerners just had a great one in Dayton, Ohio. I haven't figured out how to create a link or I'd make it easier for you to find it. Mr. Alura

10-23-2003, 08:23 AM	#42 (permalink)
bear_n_bunny Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 465 Location: Houston, Texas Status: Happily Married Couple Swing Lifestyle Name:bear_n_bunny	Di, Someone suggested I weigh in on this, so here goes... Actually, after reading through this thread, there is not just a whole lot to add. Most of what needed to be said to you already has been. Your reaction to the whole concept of swinging is not unusual. My ex-wife feels as you do about it, even to the point of wanting to puke, as you mentioned in an earlier thread. Of course, knowing her as I did, I knew better than to even bring up the subject, let alone try to talk her into it. After we divorced, I got into swinging and later told her about it (we are still friends). She was so outraged she didn't know whether to shit or go blind. And her reaction is the common one among most women to the idea of swinging. Anthropologically speaking, women have been hard-wired, so to speak, to tend to latch on to one mate, and keep to that one mate, just as men tend have the evolution-driven urge to spread their DNA around as much as possible. Plus, societies in general tend to place a lot of importance on marital fidelity and maintaining an intact marriage. No matter what culture on this planet one examines, they all have the institution of marriage in one form or another, and a lot of importance is placed on same within a social group. There is nothing wrong with this. Marriage as an institution would not have existed throughout human history unless those participating in it were getting more good than bad from the practice. And truth be known, most women, and not a few men, feel as you do about the swinging lifestyle. So be it. However, there is a small segment of the married population that has, for whatever reason, moved beyond the usual evolutionary and social strictures regarding sex. These couples, such as you find here, have discovered that it is indeed possible for sex to be a purely recreational activity, freely shared by both marriage partners, with other married couples, and a good time is had by all, etc. And the thing is, swing couples do not love each other less, nor is their lovemaking any less important and special than with a non-swing couple. It is simply that they have found that you can indeed engage in social activity with another couple or couples which includes mutually consensual, pleasureable and fun recreational sex, and that both the man and the woman can engage in this enjoyably (and make no mistake, there is a helluva lot more to swinging than just fucking). And it is not for everyone, and no one with more than two brain cells to rub together would think otherwise. But then we come to Ric and Di. Based on everything I've read from you (Di) on this thread, it is clear that Ric is one of the leading assholes in the state of Pennsylvania (if I recall the state correctly; if not, just fill in the name of whatever state you do live in). If what you have said is true, about the arguments, yelling, crying (!?!?) and so forth that he's done to coerce you into playing, when he already knows how you feel about the idea, then in my not-so-humble opinion he should be taken out and shot, if for no other reason than to clean out the shallow end of the gene pool. To me, and I'll wager damn near everyone else on this board, the idea of someone forcing, by whatever means, their spouse to engage in an activity that she finds repugnant is so over the top as to be beyond belief. To say he should be ashamed of himself would be an understatement. As for you, dear Di, not to put too fine a point on it, but you are an IDIOT! Jesus H. Christ, woman, have you never heard of the word "NO"?!?! You let this clown yell, cry, scream and whine until you gave in and did something that, by your own admission, made you want to vomit? You NEVER, EVER let ANYONE coerce you into doing ANYTHING you don't want to do, especially of such a personal, intimate nature. To let him do that is so stupid as to be beyond belief. There are certain lines that you just don't cross in a marriage, and BOTH of you have crossed them. Do NOT make that mistake again. I have one word of advice for you, sweetie. This weekend, after the kids are asleep and all that, you go take a nice bath, put on some of his favorite perfume, slip into your favorite sexy nightie, and go to that bonehead you are married to and climb into his lap. Then you shove your tits in his face to get his attention, then you lean back, point down at your pussy and say "Darling, you see this? Because I love you, that, along with the rest of me (a nice sexy wiggle of the tits and ass would be good at this point), is for you and you alone, now and forever. And I don't want to hear one more fucking word out of you about this swinging crap. It's not gonna happen, it's a dead issue, period. And if you can't handle this, then as much as I love you, don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out." Either of two things will happen. Either he will straighten up and fly right, concentrating his energies on making the two of you happy together (I would still suggest marriage counseling for both of you), or he will leave (or you throw him out because he won't shut the fuck up about it), in which case you are well rid of him. Then you can go find yourself a man whose thought processes are more to your liking. There is really nothing more to say. Have a nice life, hon... -- Bear

10-23-2003, 08:47 AM	#43 (permalink)
Elusive BiFem Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,398 Location: Texas Status: Single Female	And I will admit, Di, I am the one that asked Bear to take a look at this thread. I strongly suspected his opinons would be similar to mine and others, but I didn't try to "influence" him one way or the other. I merely asked him to take a look at it...for your benefit as well as mine...wondering if I was missing the boat somewhere. Bear has a way of cutting through the crap and getting at the heart of the matter with words in ways that many of us can't. More than once, his posts have caused me to look at things differently, and sometimes open my eyes to things I just couldn't see. Sorta like that thing of not being able to see the forest for the trees. That being said...I hope you will take his words to heart. I can't imagine being in the situation you are in. Whether you helped create the situation or not...the way you feel now is what is most important and we've all created situations for ourselves that we later wished we could un-create. Life in action. I sincerely wish you the best and I would also like to suggest that regardless of the outcome...spend some time here...read the different threads and comments. Not for the purpose of changing your mind, but for the purpose of gaining some degree of understanding and to learn that swinging is about more than just sex for the vast majority of us. If nothing else...some of us have formed close friendships with people we may never meet. And that's just part of it. - EBF

10-29-2003, 05:42 PM	#45 (permalink)
tmyis Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5 Location: CO, N. Denver area Status: M.Male	Wow, what great stuff. I only recently found this board and have never posted before, but I feel compelled to write. I have been married for 7 years. I love my wife. I also think Sportync said something that I have kind of felt for years, but haven't ever really seen with such clarity. I have to agree that it is interesting that the sexuality within a relationship is bounded and controlled by the partner with the lower sex drive. It can make it frustrating for the partner with the greater sex drive. But I can understand why this is. It is probably largely due to our rather puritan society which probably assigns more moral "rightness" in the camp of a totally monogamous relationship. Society tends to treat sex in a less than positive way in my opinion, so again, the person with the lower sex drive draws comfort and strength that they are "right". There are also many good arguments for a monogamous relationship, but that is for another thread. Di - in my case, I do have desires to participate in some form of swinging relationship. I hinted at my desires a few years ago and could tell that my wife had pretty strong feelings to the contrary. That was the end of the conversation and I have not pushed since. That is largely because I love her, respect her, and can tell that this is a battle that I will not win through any type of coercion on my part. And while I can understand your husband's desires I have to wonder if he is like me, or if he really is an unreasonable person. He could be like me. I love my wife but have physical attractions for other women. It is pretty simple. I could have sexual interactions with other people but still quite contentedly cuddle up to my wife at night. I love her for many more reasons than sex. If I felt that I could persuade my wife into some form of adventurous open lifestyle, I would. But I don't think I can so I don't. Perhaps your husband pushes because you are sending mixed signals. I realize that you probably don't think you are sending any, but consider the possibility. The alternative is that he isn't like me. Perhaps he is very clear about your limits and he continues to push. If this is the case, then I have to agree with everyone else. Your husband suffers from a lack of sensitivity and doesn't possess the level of respect required for a healthy marriage. Counseling would be in order. As for all who have posted on this thread, I am impressed by your responses and openness.