a selfish husband contemplating divorce

[ncmd_couple]

Texmo,

All things go through cycles, and it is the same with relationships. Thus the term, “The seven year itch.” I’m not a councilor or anything like that, I’m just a guy that has been there, done that, and made my fair share of mistakes.

Before you do anything rash, you need to take out your soul and look at it. And that takes time. And you need to talk extensively with your wife, which it sounds like you can do. You are lucky, I could not communicate with my ex-wife.

Your comment from your wife above is understandable, and very true! She did sacrifice a lot in becoming a wife and mother, both physically and emotionally. And her feelings may have more to do with your situation than you realize.

Right now you feel like a kid in a candy store. The swing lifestyle is exciting and you see all of these possibilities in front of you. But you need to keep in mind that the lifestyle is best enjoyed with a partner you love that you can share it with. Swinging as a single male sucks! So even if you decide to pursue this alone, trust me, it will not be what you envision.

Put all options back on the table and go back to your wife and talk. And talk again. And you have to listen to her. And I mean really listen to her, and if you don’t understand what she just said, ask her for more information.

And above all things, you have to understand that as much as she hates the changes to her body from bearing children, those changes are a badge of honor and make her the beautiful more mature woman that she is. If you truly see her in that light, she will feel better about herself and you just might find that you have the best of everything with a happy wife.

But believe me if you do all of the things I suggest, it will be hard. I know, we are going through a cycle ourselves. But anything worth having is worth working hard for.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by texmo

We have now been swinging for about 7 months, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought we would continue in the lifestyle indefinitely, but now my wife wants to quit.

I've read most of the threads on this board dealing with a spouse that wants to quit (usually the wife) and have read the advice given. I understand that swinging is a partnership, and that if one person in the partnership wants to quit, then that's the end of the discussion. Marriage means devoting yourself to your spouse.

The problem that I am facing is that I no longer embrace monogamous relationships like I did when I still maintained my religious faith. I now feel like I am a man of the world, and I want to experience everything that the world has to offer. I have realized that my wife does not wish to join me on such a journey. I want to experience a variety of women and get to know a variety of people. I don't think that I can be happy if I remain with my wife. I don't understand her. I am contemplating divorce.

What advice can you folks give me on this?

First of all, consider the fact that your lives have had a series of very dramatic changes in a relatively short period of time. You both went from very religious (with all of the extensive support & security of church community) to becoming parents, to turning 180 degrees and becoming swingers. You have ONLY been swinging for a few months - you're still a novice - and yet this new life experiment has become so important to you that you will leave your wife and kids over it. Slow down. Take a breath. THINK.

As a woman - if I were in your wife's shoes, I would have picked up intuitively that the swinging experiment/adventure was becoming more important to you than she was. Now that you are seeking divorce to pursue it, she knows that it's true. Swinging means more to you than a life with her, since you're willing to divorce her over this. Women are very intuitive creatures. If I sensed that swinging was becoming more important to my husband than I was, I'd pull back and would want to quit, too.

Since you can toss her aside so easily now over this, after she bore your children, supported you through school, etc....she knows that you are not (and probably never really were) the life partner and love of her life that she thought you were. The reason she says she won't marry again....she's completely heart-broken. She only wanted to marry one man, the love of her life, and devote herself to him. She wanted life partnership and wanted to raise your children together, as a family. You just took that dream away from her.

Swinging is a "hobby" that a couple enjoys together, not unlike any number of other hobbies a couple might pursue. How many couples lose each other over the pursuit of a hobby? It only happens when one is so obsessed with the hobby that it becomes the most important thing in his life. Put yourself in her shoes....how would YOU feel to be left behind over this?

Maybe this will help you to understand her.

[Darkblue]

[QUOTE=texmo;292036]

I spoke with my wife tonight. She told me a lot of things that were painful for me to hear. She feels like her efforts to create a family life--supporting me when I was in school, ravaging her body by having two children, cooking, cleaning, ironing my shirts, etc., she feels like it was all a waste. She is regretting the life she has had with me. And who could blame her? I am not trying to make excuses for myself.. I am just being real. This is a shitty situation.
QUOTE]

To be honest after reading your post´s on this it looks very much like neither of you love each other and by your own admitence you got marriage for the wrong reasons, well if i were you two i would stop now and seperate before you both end up being bitter towards the other and then the kids will suffer..
Hope it all works out for you all
Steve

[ShellyM]

Texmo,
The first thing you have GOT to realize is this: The grass ALWAYS seems greener on the other side, and almost always turns brown when you get there. You have got to sit and remember what you will be giving up if you follow through with divorce. For a few one night stands you will be losing your wife and life as you know it. Of course you will not lose your children, you will always be their Father...but it will not be the same. Divorce is simply not something that you are to do without thinking and contemplating and thinking some more. I understand that you feel like you want to get out there and learn more about the world. However, your wife is not into this, and that is her right to feel this way. Swinging is NOT for everyone. What you have to ask yourself is if it is worth it. I cannot answer this question for you. I think you need marital counseling absolutely immediately. Yesterday immediately. The LAST thing you need is a lover. Best of luck to you in your endeavors.

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by texmo

ravaging her body by having two children

Dammit it pisses me off when I hear women say this. I have a friend who's ex wife told him that she will never forgive him for getting her pregnant (TWICE) because the c-sections "mutilated" her body.
Number 1, I think we all know HOW we make babies. If you don't know that sex makes babies you need to go to health class.
It just annoys me when women say this. Do not get pregnant if you don't want everything that having babies brings. Just my opinion, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[daisy girl]

You have opened up a new world of possibilities and trying to learn how to deal with this. Get counseling. Be open and honest. YOu both have to have your needs met.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

Dammit it pisses me off when I hear women say this. I have a friend who's ex wife told him that she will never forgive him for getting her pregnant (TWICE) because the c-sections "mutilated" her body.
Number 1, I think we all know HOW we make babies. If you don't know that sex makes babies you need to go to health class.
It just annoys me when women say this. Do not get pregnant if you don't want everything that having babies brings. Just my opinion, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Shelly: In defense of the OP's wife...obviously she's not here to defend herself or tell us the exact wording that she used when airing HER list of grievances while talking to him. She may have been trying to make him understand that she too has made sacrifices during their relationship (among them bearing their children) and that maybe in light of the things that she has done or given up for him that he needs to be willing to do the same.

For my own experience, did having children 'ruin' my body? You pit what you gain against what you lose (or perceive to lose)...2 healthy, beautiful babies, bigger boobs...great! Strech marks, weight gain, etc. Eh, no so great. Would I ever tell my ex-husband that he ruined me because we had children? Or would I ever tell them that? Oh hell no...I knew what the potential consequences were when we had sex, so I hold no one else accountable except myself. The only problem I have is men who view women as damaged goods once they've had children...that is another rant.

Now to the OP:

I agree that the grass is always greener. And yes, as a matter of fact, your wife would be a single mother. Will she be the one with primary care tasks? Living with, cooking for, cleaning up, taking care of the children with no spouse or SO to assist. That is the definition of a single parent. And your wife may say that she will never marry again. Honey, those are famous last words. Once the pain and hurt have passed and she starts living life again...well, never say never. Besides if that were the case, no one would ever have more children after experiencing the pain of childbirth (epidural or no), you 'forget' how painful an experience truly was the longer time passes.

Would I say you are a selfish ass? Eh, probably. Have we all felt like we have missed opportunities and experiences in our lives? Most likely.

I agree with others, go to a counselor. Try to find a certified sex therapist that does couples therapy. They are more likely to at least be 'lifestyle friendly'....ie: not immediately jump to the conclusion that swinging is the primary problem in the relationship.

While it is an exciting time of discovery, and lots of fun....my SO puts it best, 'playing is just icing on the cake.' If you start viewing the icing as the cake...then that is a problem. I agree with Tybee, your wife may have suspected that the playtime was more important than her...but now she has her proof. Sometimes it really does help to try to see things from that person's point of view. How would you feel if you were on the receiving end?

Do you seriously not remember what is was like being a single guy? It's not like you will suddenly be awash with nubile women beating down your door and begging you for sex. As previously stated, swinging as a single guy has got to suck. Please see all the threads here about that topic.

Good luck, you totally need it.

Maria

[jojodom]

People change, just don't run off without exploring your options first.

My wife left me after being together for 4 years, she suddenly discovered that she was a lesbian. I to married for wrong reasons and know how life can twist and turn. I am a single father now and have no regrets.

You married young and naive also. A lot has changed so don't change again till it has all settled in.

If logically look at it all and lay all your cards on the table and decide that this is the rite choice to leave, I am behind you 100 PERCENT. If all you and your wife will do is be miserable then you kids are going to be miserable.

Profesional studies show that kids are better off with seperated parents that get along that parents that live together and hate each other.

Cheers

Jo

[texmo]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful words.

I want to be clear that I do not have any illusions of getting more sex by being a single male. I understand clearly what I would be giving up by leaving my wife.

This isn't about sex. It's about happiness. I don't know if I love my wife the way that I should.

I appreciate the suggestions that I go see a counselor. At this point, I am not interested in couples counseling. I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

[TheDeal]

Originally Posted by texmo

I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

I think that's a great idea. I am all about including your wife, but you need to know what you feel and to understand that before you throw out too many possibilities to her.

Keep her in the know, just not dragging behind you.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by texmo

I appreciate the suggestions that I go see a counselor. At this point, I am not interested in couples counseling. I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

Regardless of whether it is a single or couples session, I would still look for a certified sex therapist for the reason I mentioned previously.

It would probably do you and your wife good to have a few sessions (separately as well as together, sometimes it helps to have a mediator so 'discussions' don't escalate).

You mention happiness...were you happy with your wife, relationship, life BEFORE you started swinging? Do try not to let your current state of 'unhappiness' cloud the answer to that question.

[intuition897]

The only thing we can be sure of in this life is confusion. Well that, death and taxes. Mr. intuition and I got married young, him 24 and me 20. It was one of them there "shotgun" weddings. Yeah, I had a bun in the oven, so we had to hurry up before I couldn't fit into a pretty dress. We spent a goodly number of years not really knowing one another, not knowing how to communicate and what's more, being afraid to communicate. We became resentful of one another and wondered if the pregnancy was the only reason we got married in the first place. Oh, did I mention I came from a devout Christian upbringing? Anyway, we wasted a lot of one another's time and our own. We were on the verge of divorce and to be honest, I just didn't care anymore. I was just tired of being lonely and so was he. After a big blow-up, we decided that,yes, we actually did still want to be with one another. So we totally re-vamped our marriage to be exactly what we wanted it to be. My religious beliefs also got a refreshing overhaul and I finally have peace. My faith no longer detracts from my life, but enhances it.

I know you have strong feelings about religiosity (as do I) but that's not really the point here. I guess I'm just saying that what you might deem an irreparable failure of a marriage may actually be something worth saving. Don't give up too quickly on a thing just because it is convenient to do so, or because your emotions are telling you to at the time. Sometimes we need to give our emotions a "time-out" so that we can think things through thoroughly and strive to see the bigger picture.

If you ask me, it just sounds like two people who are striving to find happiness, and they're disappointed with how life hasn't lived up to their expectations. And now they're looking everywhere but at one another to "get happy". I found happiness when I looked beside me and saw another miserable human being standing there. It sparked a deep desire to nurture and comfort him. To protect him and help him. I guess that's called love. I just want that sadness to go away and for him to be happy. If you can do this with your own wife, and you have a desire to know her better, don't walk away without expressing this to her. If you see her misery and unhappiness - see her like the child she was many years ago - and still have no desire to be with her, it's only fair to be honest with her.

[texmo]

Originally Posted by sexcupid

You mention happiness...were you happy with your wife, relationship, life BEFORE you started swinging? Do try not to let your current state of 'unhappiness' cloud the answer to that question.

A fair question. We've had both happy and unhappy times. The swinging contributed to our current situation, but it was already there before. As I mentioned earlier, I married her for the wrong reasons. Now I'm trying to figure out whether that even matters.

Originally Posted by intuition897

I found happiness when I looked beside me and saw another miserable human being standing there. It sparked a deep desire to nurture and comfort him. To protect him and help him. I guess that's called love.

This is an important observation, I think. I've certainly felt deep and overwhelming compassion for her at times. I love her in that sense. I don't feel any romantic love for her, and having felt it before with other women from my past, I know how romantic love feels. As I said above, I'm trying to figure out if any of this matters. I suspect that it does.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by texmo

A fair question. We've had both happy and unhappy times. The swinging contributed to our current situation, but it was already there before. As I mentioned earlier, I married her for the wrong reasons. Now I'm trying to figure out whether that even matters.



This is an important observation, I think. I've certainly felt deep and overwhelming compassion for her at times. I love her in that sense. I don't feel any romantic love for her, and having felt it before with other women from my past, I know how romantic love feels. As I said above, I'm trying to figure out if any of this matters. I suspect that it does.

The notion of 'romantic' love is a relatively new fangled convention in the human species (say since the middle ages or so). And the fizz of new love wears off after usually about 18 months-2 years (scientifically speaking just about long enough to shag like bunnies and make a baby)....that is we may be so clouded by happiness/hormones, that we are less critical of our partners during that time.

All couples have happy and unhappy times, that is 'normal' so to speak...so if you are looking for a neverending cycle of bliss, then you will never be happy in a long term relationship.

I am one of those people that got married for the 'wrong' reasons...we went to the JP and got hitched because he didn't want me having the baby and not be married. I, having a hormone addled brain at that time, thought that'll be great! And for the rest of the marriage I was left wondering if that was the only reason he ever wanted to get married. I was 20, he was 28.

Now, you seem to have gotten married just to be able to have sex? This may be a little too personal...but did you have any experience before? Not intercourse, but there are lots of things to experiment with and get experience without penetration. Some of the most experienced people I knew in high school and college were 'technically virgins' because they hadn't had intercourse, because the their religion/upbringing told them that intercourse was for after marriage.

[onecrazydiamond]

Maybe I can shed some light on how your wife probably feels. I see you have a couple of small children. Right now they are probably at the stage where they are just taking everything out of her and swinging right now is just one more "JOB" that is layed on her plate. My husband and I have been down that road. We're together 15 years and we reached a point where all it seemed that my husband wanted was to be selfish. I did everything around the house, I took care of the kids, I went to work. He basically just slept, went out the door to go to work, ate and repeated everything the next day. So the sex thing to me became just another "JOB" that I was "stuck " doing everyday. And no I am not some frigid, stiff bitch. I was a swinger from age 19 on. (I'm 43) I absolutely love good nasty sex everyway you can imagine. But when selfishness rears it's ugly head in one partner, you can bet the other partner is gonna retaliate in the one area that they know they can hit the other partner the most, ussually sex. My advise to you is get back to your roots. Focus on your family and forget being selfish, make a personal sacrifice for one year, make your kids and wife your #1 priority and you will see a major turnaround in both your life and hers and your kids. If after one year you don't see a change and you truely want more. Get a divorce, that way you won't hurt anyone. I hope you all work it out, if not at least you tried.