Wife not interested, but I am - what to do?

[candsinmadtown]

i am going to repeat what my therapist just told me the other day: Women need to feel appreciated and loved to have intimate, fulfilling sex with their partner, Men need to have sex to give those things to their partner...it comes easier for them (men) after the act...(snuggling up next to each other, saying "I love you", spooning, etc...)

and GOOD LORD...iapr...you are right on the $$$$$

[iapr]

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

If you are not interested because you are stressed or too tired and he doesn't start to pull his own weight then you may be dealing with a man who doesn't care about your feelings and you might want to take a good look at your relationship. You have to decide whether or not it is worth being in the relationship or striking out on your own to find someone that you are more compatible with. If you are losing your desire for sex then there are some things that you can do and you should do some research to try to correct the problem.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, AND IT IS COMPLETELY FALSE AND WRONG!!!!!

This is what is causing so many broken marriages, divorces and cold and unsatisfactory relationships. I am going to be sexist and point fingers here so keep in mind this is just a generalization. But women often get bogged down with the details and petty irritations and problems in life and then when they see the men in their lives aren't obsessing and being consumed by them as well they jump to the conclusion that the men don't love them or have respect for them and they begin to get bitter and pull away. The women then think that this must not be their soul mate otherwise they would see how much sacrifice she is putting into things and do his fair share. Then they start to get roaming eyes thinking that the real Mr Right must still be out there somewhere.

This is a huge trap and it does not have to be this way. This is not about dishes and laundry and picking the kids up from daycare. This is about feeling loved and appreciated and accepted by your partner. Look at it this way if you were a single parent you would have to do all that stuff by yourself anyway. What makes the difference is not how often a man helps with the dishes or the laundry it is about how much he shows you he loves and cherishes you and appreciates what you do for him and the family.

And for the men it is the same way. Men do not obsess over the details of daily life and don't give a shit if there is a dirty plate or two in the sink. A man wants to feel loved and appreciated by the woman he loves and a lot of that is through the physical contact and intimacy of sex as well as physical and romantic affection. If a guy is getting that we will go out and slay dragons all day and come home to the woman he loves.

That woman could be fat, hairy, wart covered and bald but if she shows him daily that he is her knight in shining armor he will step over naked supermodels writhing in baby oil in the front yard to get home to his beloved partner.

A man shows appreciation in different ways and women often don't see the signs of it because they are too bogged down with the details of daily life. A man shows his love and devotion by getting up every morning and fighting rush hour traffic to a job he hates so he can pay the rent and put food on the table. A man shows his devotion by putting up with screaming kids and diapers and puke. A man shows his devotion by keeping his pecker in his pants when he sees a hot chick. All of those things are concious choices he makes to keep his loved one by his side, those are not natural acts for a man. They may be expected but they do not come naturally.

When women cop this attitude of "he doesn't care for my feelings because he is not at my side doing what I am doing," She is trying to take away his masculinity and trying to turn him from a man into a girlfriend with a cock but then when she cops the attitude she doens't even want the cock. Once a women starts coming between a man and his sexuality that relationship is in a serious downward spiral. If a man has to choose between a cold, bitter, complaining cold fish of a wife or of having a romantic sexlife, he will choose the sex life. His choices are he can either take back his masculinity and start behaving like a man and in return expecting to be treated like one or he can start hitting on the blond bimbo at the office. The OP of this thread is at that crossroad and the advice I offered is geared towards an honest attempt at happiness at home. To give into to feminist propaganda of putting on the apron and be a chick friend with a cock is rolling out the red carpet for looking for a new mate and starting the viscious cycle all over again.

[sereneiders]

iapr,

I agree that your recipe is very likely to be efective, however... it is too much of a recipe for my taste. I mean, those ACTIONS you describe should come from your heart, and I don't mean to say that feelings precedes actions, but that this requires the "will for the awareness".

What you described is what a guy does ro conquer a woman, and he does so because he IS PAYING ATTENTION, he's making an effort to be aware of the woman desires, what she likes, what she dislikes, and so. And this awareness is crucial, because any guy may follow your recipe, setp by step, just to get what HE wants from the lady (for example, to score, to convince her about swinging), but the recipe ends up, and at some point the only recipe to follow comes from being aware of the woman feelings.

Why some guys just stop conquering their wifes on an every day basis? I guess, it's because they already have what they wanted, and they doesn't expect, nor want, anyhting better than that. They lose interest, their wife is there, whatever happens is given for granted... even if she turns cold fish (because of this, or because the same is happening for her). This isn't wrong for as long as both feels confortable inside the relationship, but the OP already claimed he doesn't feel confortable (and I'd LOVE to hear his wife side of the story here).

So, how advisable is to follow a recipe for him? He either loves her or he doesn't, he either care of her, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he's trying the shortest path to get what he wants (hot sex), while avoiding losing what he arealdy have (a wife washig his underwears afterwards). The guy is asking for advice on how to cheat on his wife inside a swingers party!

So, it isn't about giving him a recipe, so far it seems it'd be a recipe to score. We'd rater say "hey... stop talking with us, talk to your wife, look at her, pay attention to her, do you really care about her, about your marriage? then MAKE HER HAPPY, by fulfilling HER needs" (and not what we're gessing she needs, and less from a romantic biased perspective, even when it may work for may of us.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

iapr,

I agree that your recipe is very likely to be efective, however... it is too much of a recipe for my taste. I mean, those ACTIONS you describe should come from your heart, and I don't mean to say that feelings precedes actions, but that this requires the "will for the awareness".

What you described is what a guy does ro conquer a woman, and he does so because he IS PAYING ATTENTION, he's making an effort to be aware of the woman desires, what she likes, what she dislikes, and so. And this awareness is crucial, because any guy may follow your recipe, setp by step, just to get what HE wants from the lady (for example, to score, to convince her about swinging), but the recipe ends up, and at some point the only recipe to follow comes from being aware of the woman feelings.

Why some guys just stop conquering their wifes on an every day basis? I guess, it's because they already have what they wanted, and they doesn't expect, nor want, anyhting better than that. They lose interest, their wife is there, whatever happens is given for granted... even if she turns cold fish (because of this, or because the same is happening for her). This isn't wrong for as long as both feels confortable inside the relationship, but the OP already claimed he doesn't feel confortable (and I'd LOVE to hear his wife side of the story here).

So, how advisable is to follow a recipe for him? He either loves her or he doesn't, he either care of her, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he's trying the shortest path to get what he wants (hot sex), while avoiding losing what he arealdy have (a wife washig his underwears afterwards). The guy is asking for advice on how to cheat on his wife inside a swingers party!

So, it isn't about giving him a recipe, so far it seems it'd be a recipe to score. We'd rater say "hey... stop talking with us, talk to your wife, look at her, pay attention to her, do you really care about her, about your marriage? then MAKE HER HAPPY, by fulfilling HER needs" (and not what we're gessing she needs, and less from a romantic biased perspective, even when it may work for may of us.

I agree with quite a bit of what you are saying but I do disagree with the use of the word 'conquer'. No man evers conquers a woman . I much prefer to see it as a give and take and we each have different things we have to offer and we each have different things we need and want in return. As long as every is getting in return what it is they require it is all good.

I also did not see anything in the OP saying where he said or indicated he was "uncomfortable" with his marriage. The question that I came away with and that I posed back on him was is it really swinging that he missed or was he just missing a satisfying romantic/sex life with his wife.

I do believe strongly with you in that the actions I described should not be a connect the dots recipe for getting a chick in bed but should be something that is sincere and from the heart. I also beleive that if people's, both male and female, needs are being met that they will gladly and willfully give of themselves to make their partner happy. The breakdown occurs when one or both feel that their contribution to the relationship is being taken advantage of and is too one-sided.

If someone is just using a connect the dots approach and is following a recipe to get someone into bed it will be rapidly apparent and it will backfire in pretty short order. A big part of what I was saying though is that we often fall into the trap of believing that we must have certain "feelings" first in order for us to show warmth and compassion and affection and if those feelings aren't there that we should turn a cold shoulder to the one we are supposed to love the most. Many often believe too that if those feelings aren't there then we aren't in love with that person anymore and that we need to leave that person so we can go in search of another person to find those feelings again. That is all bullshit, if we display the actions more often than not they will be reciprocated by the other party and feelings will follow actions rather than the other way around.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by iapr

If someone is just using a connect the dots approach and is following a recipe to get someone into bed it will be rapidly apparent and it will backfire in pretty short order. A big part of what I was saying though is that we often fall into the trap of believing that we must have certain "feelings" first in order for us to show warmth and compassion and affection and if those feelings aren't there that we should turn a cold shoulder to the one we are supposed to love the most. Many often believe too that if those feelings aren't there then we aren't in love with that person anymore and that we need to leave that person so we can go in search of another person to find those feelings again. That is all bullshit, if we display the actions more often than not they will be reciprocated by the other party and feelings will follow actions rather than the other way around.

I agree 100%.

About the "conquering", you're right, as well. I am sure I'm able to rephrase that more accuratelly in Spanish.

What seems more interesting to me from your perspective, is the way you leverage the "romanticism" with the "bargain/trade" every relationship have, even if under the table. There was a couple of discussion in this board where servel people claimed you cannot look at your relationship as a "business transaction", and I bleieve you synthesized very well how both concepts are merged.