He wants to swing...I don't want to...and it's killing me!!!

[Babysteps]

Unless there's something ringing your bell about your husband (miss)behavior, able to reinforce your belief.

your hubby is way more pushy than what you like to admit.

"lead by their dicks" guy, and my guts tells me that you're trying to find a way to engage in swinging just to avoif the supossedly fate of end up being cheated on.

Ok, now I KNOW that I have mislead some of you. ALL of the statements that I have highlighted COULD NOT BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH......AND DO NOT APPLY TO US.

The statements that I am making here are LARGELY for the sake of playing "devil's advocate".....an EXAMINATION of the lifestyle, like I said before, I am a big "overthinker"......I'M GENERALIZING.....asking YOU ALL.....to....."suppose this....or suppose that"......get it?? YES, SOME of what I have written can relate directly to my relationship......BUT, the way some of you are interpretting some things is far far from the truth.

And I'm not going to get into the "dymanics" of our love again. Yes, he loves me, fiercely, I have no doubt about that. He'd never push me, or want to see me hurt. He DOESN'T think with his dink......he's a deep man.

All's I am doing here is trying to look at every angle, BECAUSE,I am very frustrated with my inability to completely grasp this......I'm trying my best to figure it out.....HOPING for that "AHH HAA" moment.

And UNFORTUNAELY now, ( no one's fault), that the statements were made implying he is an shallow and selfish man, I will never bring him here, to see this, he'd be quite upset, I don't need that.

Don't get me wrong......I love to hear from you, you have just misunderstood part of my intent.

[Babysteps]

Meh, think nothing of it. Just haven't had your coffee yet. Been there. It takes a lot more than someone's honest opinion to personally offend me. I understand how emotionally draining this must be for you. Believe me I do, as we've been there before.

Your a very, VERY understanding gal......and I DO get soooo much from your responses, I go back and read them over and over, I'm very grateful that you take the time.

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

am doing here is trying to look at every angle, BECAUSE,I am very frustrated with my inability to completely grasp this......I'm trying my best to figure it out.....HOPING for that "AHH HAA" moment.

And my point (and maybe others) is that you can't have that "AHH HAA" moment without talking to him. Also, I think the majority of us were trying to get you to give him a chance...not say that he is shallow.

Vol

[Babysteps]

First let me say I've enjoyed this thread. The concerns of Babysteps are so real and remind me of some of the concerns I had originally.

And THANK YOU for that Sarah! I DO have lots more I'd like to say, But I'm starting to wonder if Ya'll might be thinking, "OKAY! ENOUGH ALREADY! YOU EITHER GET IT OR YA DON'T!" And if I need to stop, please don't hesitate to let me know. I don't want to "beat it till it's dead"......lol.

Like I said before, just looking at all the angles, playing devil's advocate.

And the truth of the matter IS.....I DON'T really have THIS much time to spend online,(lol), but I AM enjoying this, and I'm learning! A veritable WEALTH of knowledge here! I feel very fortunate to have this opportunity to interact with Ya'll!

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

The statements that I am making here are LARGELY for the sake of playing "devil's advocate".....an EXAMINATION of the lifestyle.

I am ok with this, however, wouldn't this be an "off topic"? I mean, you asked for help and advice, then you start playing devil's advocate... even when on the grounds of prejudice.

The problem is, this way the whole forum has to do with your problem. We should rewrite what we already said in the ramaining threads here. You have plenty of arguments in the forum against the prejudice you exposed. Moreover, this could deserve an entire different thread to discuss the "guy leaded by his dick" argument (and I have to remind you here, a lot of women are the ones bringing the swinging subject to their marriages... I guess they deserve to be taken for nimphos, "gal leaded by her cunt").

We're pointing out something we believe you're doing wrong, and not to swing or to avoid swinging, but to improve your chances for a good, grounded decision, and to improve your marriage wheter you ever swing or not. You dislike what you heard here, so you start "playing devil's advocate" as to divert the attention (your own attention) from this issue.

Once again, you said "I am very frustrated with my inability to completely grasp this......I'm trying my best to figure it out.....HOPING for that "AHH HAA" moment". It isn't a matter of abilities, there's no requirement for anyone (even you) to "grasp it", and less to hope for the theoretical AHH HAA moment coming from what you didn't grasp, moreover when there's a huge risk for the AHHH HHA to turn into BUAAAAAAHHHH BUAAAAHHH.

So far, my advice for you is... DON'T EVER TRY SWINGING, you don't have the wood for it (the sort of conflicts you show, and they intensity, tellme there's a huge risk for you to get very badly hurt in the process).

Understanding that this isn't for you should be enough. It is for most people who came here and get the same advice...yet, you keep pushing yourself into trying to "grasp" something allowing you to change this.

You seems to crave to please your husband, as if this inability were enough to ruin your marriage... and if this were true, then your marriage is already in big problems. And this isn't about your husband (if he's pushy, selfish or whatever), because to make up my mind about him, I need to read HIS OWN WORDS about this. This is about you, facing the edge of the clift, up to blindly jump to the void just because of your own cravings. You risk to hurt yourself, mostly because you're not granting credit to your husband, the credit that he WILL love you even with your "inability" to grasp all of this, and this way, YOU could be jeopardizing your marriage.

Again, we're not the ones you should be asking question and discussing all of this, your husband is.

[Babysteps]

You dislike what you heard here, so you start "playing devil's advocate" as to divert the attention (your own attention) from this issue.

No, YOUR WRONG......SOOOOO WRONG! I'm not looking to "divert" any attention, I don't stick my head in the sand! I'M FRUSTRATED, NOT IN FEAR OF WHAT CHOOSING TO NOT SWING WILL DO TO MY RELATIONSHIP. Again, I fear that you have misinterpretted the SPIRIT in which I write.

It isn't a matter of abilities, there's no requirement for anyone (even you) to "grasp it", and less to hope for the theoretical AHH HAA

And THIS I completely disagree with also, I don't even understand how you could say such a thing. One must not "grasp" the concept before one possibly engages in it??

So far, my advice for you is... DON'T EVER TRY SWINGING

Don't rule me out yet

Understanding that this isn't for you should be enough. It is for most people who came here and get the same advice...yet, you keep pushing yourself into trying to "grasp" something allowing you to change this.

So what your saying here is that since I haven't IMMEDIATELY understood this, I never will, and I might as well just forget about it. You don't think I should be asking others more experienced the questions that I might have? Or bounce ideas off of them? Not even make an effort? I'm frustrated, want to keep an open mind. But I guess I might as well just forget about it.

as if this inability were enough to ruin your marriage... and if this were true, then your marriage is already in big problems.

Again....soooo wrong, you've misunderstood.

the credit that he WILL love you even with your "inability" to grasp all of this,

And yes, your right, and probably love me even more for it.

I think your saying I'm a little too deep, not frivolous enough??

[avid]

Babysteps, I have to say I think the same way I suppose you to think - out loud.

I've followed this thread since the beginning, and what I'm hearing you to say is not that you don't ever want to swing, it's more that you're rattling around the concepts in your head so that you can see the big picture and whether it applies to you.

Good for you for giving it a "good thinking".

Remember though, and sereneiders knows this too, there are all kinds of people who come to this board. The vast majority of those who come here are sincere, intelligent adults who will take a lot of time and energy (and words, in some cases), to fully discuss a situation/concern/problem/opportunity. Some of those people you may utterly connect with, and others you may say "meh" too. That's okay.

Remember, we're all hairy, old, fat, naked men sitting in front of our keyboards anyway. Take it for what it's worth.

You're doing great. I hope you stick around and join in some of the other conversations we've got going.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

So what your saying here is that since I haven't IMMEDIATELY understood this, I never will, and I might as well just forget about it. You don't think I should be asking others more experienced the questions that I might have? Or bounce ideas off of them? Not even make an effort? I'm frustrated, want to keep an open mind. But I guess I might as well just forget about it.

No. I didn't say that. It isn't a matter of understading. I don't know the way you feel or perceive your feelings, but perhaps you may correlate this: you don't necesarily need to understand your relationship, nor your husband, in order to love him. Much the same happens with sexual desires, the desire people have for their spouses or the desires they have for other people. It is something that either is there, or it isn't. There's nothing to understand able to "awake" a desire that isn't there in the first place.

It seems to me you don't desire sex with others than your husband, that your desire to fulfill your husbands desires and expectations, and this leads you to desire to be able to desire sex with others, and for this to happen, that there should be something to understand about this whole thing.

Meanwhile, you don't understand your husband desire to be with others once having you there. The way you portrayed swinging as a facade for cheating tells me about a (miss)understanding of what's swinging is about. Of course, I don't know your husband and this could apply to your case, but it is a pretty common missunderstanding that doesn't correlate with the way swingers perceive ourselves, and perhaps not even the way your husband perceives himself.

If you read my previous posts, I said "wheter your ever swing or not" many times, but it seems to me you're not accepting the change that you may never swing. And this isn't a dart aimed at you, I strongly believe this is a very important rhing to ponder. If we (my wife and me) ever feel we REQUIRE to swing, we'd stop swinging in a heartbeat.

We swing because this is something we BOTH WANTS to do, we BOTH CAN DO, and NEITHER of us NEEDS to do. As for me, this is minimal requirement for anyone to swing.

And I have the impression that you wouldn't even be thinking of swinging if your husband wasn't tell you he swung before and misses it (as opposed to the BOTH WANTS), that you may not be able to do it, as least right now (as opposed to BOTH CAN), and that you NEED to do it as to fulfill your husband wishes (as opposed to NEITHER NEEDS).

I am no telling this cannot change, I am telling how it seems to be today, and ALSO that, for this to change, you two needs to improve your communication and solve issues that you MAY have in your marriage, issues I ave the impression they're there from what I read in between your lines.

[Babysteps]

I've followed this thread since the beginning, and what I'm hearing you to say is not that you don't ever want to swing, it's more that you're rattling around the concepts in your head so that you can see the big picture and whether it applies to you.

Possibly correct, what I'm afraid of is being closed minded enough to never give this a chance. Too many do that......'since it doesn't make sense or seem right, right from the beginning', they will not even give it a chance.

I have a signature on another site, it reads......"Do not be afraid of growing slowly.....be afraid only of standing still". Even as mature adults we can still experience "growing pains".

The vast majority of those who come here are sincere, intelligent adults who will take a lot of time and energy (and words, in some cases), to fully discuss a situation/concern/problem/opportunity.

And THIS is something that you all have my heart felt thanks for. I DO appreciate the time and effort that you have all taken to respond to me! This had been an INVALUABLE exercise for me!

You're doing great. I hope you stick around and join in some of the other conversations we've got going.

And I WOULD LOVE TO, but I hardly feel that I am in a spot to "contribute", when I haven't had the experience. Ohhh sure, I could add my 2 cents, but it really wouldn't be worth alot......would it??

[Babysteps]

Sereneiders, FIRST I'd like to say thank you to you for taking the time to reply to my posts, I DO appreciate it, and I get alot out of it!

No. I didn't say that. It isn't a matter of understading. I don't know the way you feel or perceive your feelings, but perhaps you may correlate this: you don't necesarily need to understand your relationship, nor your husband, in order to love him. Much the same happens with sexual desires,

A wise correlation! THIS , I understand.

There's nothing to understand able to "awake" a desire that isn't there in the first place.

You might be saying this STRICTLY in the context of swinging, but I believe that many have hidden desires, and often a little "awakening" is all that it takes, to be introduced to new pleasures. I most certainly have desires NOW, that I wasn't aware of the past, and I love the experience of exploring to "uncover" them.

The way you portrayed swinging as a facade for cheating tells me about a (miss)understanding of what's swinging is about.

The "facade for cheating" DOES occur.....my perception is that SOME swing for "the right reasons".....with pure intent......OTHERS might chose to swing with "not so pure intent". The swing community IS of course a cross-section of any other community.....all different types and motivations. I'm just looking at all of the possibilities......whether they apply to MY situation or not.

I am no telling this cannot change, I am telling how it seems to be today, and ALSO that, for this to change, you two needs to improve your communication and solve issues that you MAY have

Thank you again for taking the time, I think that you all don't hold much hope for me.....in this endeavour.......but I'd like to say this.....There are many types of swinging.....from soft to hard.....and some of the "softer" forms DO have some allure for me. I AM a very sexual person.....and as my name indicates......I think 'babysteps' are all that's required......AND that communication of course!

[prettylady]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

And I WOULD LOVE TO, but I hardly feel that I am in a spot to "contribute", when I haven't had the experience. Ohhh sure, I could add my 2 cents, but it really wouldn't be worth alot......would it??

You bet your two cents worth is worth it.
I was giving advice before I started swinging. Mostly because I was just that little farther then some. I took a few babysteps, they were fresh in my mind and so I could help alittle.
But there are things here that don't have anything to do with swinging. You could stumble across an issue about computers, how NOT to burn toast in a toaster oven (by the way, if anyone has the answer to that one I would love it). This forum is about life in and outside of the forum. We come HERE because we are like minded people when it comes to sex. I feel comfortable talking about issues I have that have nothing and everything to do with sex.
I have talked about my computer problems, eating troubles, fitness advances and fall backs, I brag about my kids, the list can be endless. But I come here mostly for the same reason you are here.
These people have been there and done that with regards to swinging. If I have a concern they are patient with me and answer them to the best of thier abilities.
Don't be frustrated, take the time it takes to get ok with swinging. It took me about 6 months before my first time. Some people here can say it took them 1-2 years. Your fighting against an idea that has been pushed on us since we got barbie and ken for christmas. The perfect happy couple. Just them in thier perfect world. Look what happened to them. They NEVER talked about sex, heck aside from the occational 90 degree angle kiss I made them have every couple of months that they came out of the trailer, they would have never shown each other affection. Maybe if they talked more they would have not gotten a divorce. They were hot to. Aside from the whole anatomical issue, I bet they would have been great play friends.
** side note ** I am having trouble sleeping lately so please forgive the pointless rambling.
What I am trying (badly) to say. Is relax, enjoy the learning process, have some fun on the board. Look at me for example, I have people who comment about my posts being "too cute for words" I am here to have fun.
After all isn't that what life is all about.
OH one more thing and I will shut up. The thing that helped me become ok with the swinging idea was meeting these great people in a no pressure situation.
If you hear of a meet and greet in your area or one kinda close....GO!!!
You will see that we are real people who are just out for a good laugh.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[LikeMinds321]

Babysteps ~

In a previous thread (6/2006) you mentioned that you have spent a "HUGE amount of time reading many of the forums,( actually borderline ridiculous sometimes, lol )". For someone who has spent huge amounts of time reading, I would think by now you would have come across discussions elsewhere on the Board that would have helped you find resolve with your issues, since all of your issues are common and are frequently discussed on the Board.

If you had just joined and this was your first thread without having read anything on the Board, your questions and responses would not be surprising. After reading this thread, I don't see you being open to any of the advice given here, you only continue to question it and swinging.

Throughout this thread I see no mention of you even discussing with your boyfriend what's going on in your head right now (or this thread) since you began this thread. And you say you won't even bring your boyfriend to this thread because someone said something that he will be offended by. Everyone here can only guess what is going on in his head, based on what you write. We can only guess what type of man he is, so understand our guesses aren't always going to be right, but please don't be offended.

My advice: Forget about swinging for now. Get on with life. Clear your head of all the drama you are going through. Tell your boyfriend of your decision. Stand up for your decision NOT to swing. Let go of your self guilt, you may find that using it as a reason not to come to a decision (because you don't want to disappoint your boyfriend) is merely a way to put off facing something about yourself that needs some work.

Swingers are very good about sensing when a couple is not equally comfortable with their decision to swing. People will sense this in you and your boyfriend if you began swinging right now. People would pick up on the drama within you and your struggle with accepting swinging.

LM

[Babysteps]

In a previous thread (6/2006) you mentioned that you have spent a "HUGE amount of time reading many of the forums,( actually borderline ridiculous sometimes, lol )". For someone who has spent huge amounts of time reading, I would think by now you would have come across discussions elsewhere on the Board that would have helped you find resolve with your issues, since all of your issues are common and are frequently discussed on the Board.

"Put me in my place", just fine. As I mentioned before, I wanted someone to tell me if I was getting out of line......didn't want to beat it to death. I thank you for that.

Yes, I DID/HAVE/AM reading other threads, UNFORTUNATELY I guess, it's THIS ONE thats I'm using to try to relay my thoughts and opinions. Just a discussion, I'm sorry if I went overboard.

Thank you again ALL for sharing with me......truly invaluable!

[sereneiders]

Babysteps,

I guess I should told you this before, but now it seems it can make some sense.

I bring the swinging subject to my wife the first year we was togheter... about 16 years ago. She said a sound NO WAY, and I drop the subject.

About 4 years ago she was the one bringing back the subject, partly because she was thinking of this all these years, slowly, at her own peace, and partly because I accepted her choice without arguing, without EVER bringing the subject again. Ultimatelly, because she was confident about my choice of being with her for the rest of our lives, no matter of what, even at the price of being up to put my fantasies on the closet and get rid of them from time to time to jack off.

So, more than 10 years later, she said... "what the hell? why not? I don't ahve any moral issue about this, I also fantasize of being with others, I know there's now way someone else would be able to divert my attention from you, and there's no way someone else would be able to divert your attention from me... so, let's give this a try"... And we keep trying 4 years later

Even more, we engaged in swinging, then we engaged in polyamorous relationships, and everithing was, and still is, great.

I never cheated on my wife, and she never cheated on me (and if you say "well... as long as you know" I'll answer, "and if she did, I don't really care... whatever she did with someone else never dimished her love for me, and that's all I care about"), and after 10 years of "not cheating on each other", I know I won't cheat on her, and that I am not doing it as a way to relief a desire to cheat on her.

My point is, we started swinging when both or us was ready for it. It took 10 years, and it could take 20, 30... or never happen, without affecting our relationship. We both KNOW about this, and this was required in order to swing.

You need trust and confidence on who you are with, on your relationship strengt being bullet proof, BEFORE even thinking of swinging, IF you want to try it knwoing that your relationship will survive whatever experience you have, for good or bad it could be.

What I am telling, and I guess what other people is telling you, is to develop a trust and confidende that, so far and from your own words, you doesn't seem to have. And just once there, jump into the party with us!

[Express Service]

honestly........................have u when making love fantasized about another.........think and think hard............
perhaps he gets a hard on just thinking about swinging............just seeing another male playing with you.............
walk the way once and perhaps u may enjoy............u always have the right to end it.