Breaking the news to Wife that I intend to swing without her

[midnightplayer]

I need some advice about how to break the news to my wife that I am going to enter the lifestyle. I have been married for more than 30 years I am over 55. Our sex life has never been “robust” to say the lease. After she went through metaphase it got worse. It is now “conditional”. If the conditions aren’t right we don’t do. When we do, it is after 10pm, in the dark, no oral, she is done in 15 min, me on top and I am bored. She will not talk about it, seek medical help, or take any effort to make it better. My sex drive has always been high. I had numerous affair 25 years ago, but have been faithful ever since. I will not cheat on her, but I will not stay faithful in a marriage without satisfying sex. Life is rapidly passing me by. I will not get a divorce, and want someone to tell me how to break the news that I am seeking safe couples to play with. I would love for her to join me, but little chance of that. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[VanHlebar]

You know...this seems to pop up at least once a month. I am just guessing here, but if you aren't going to do this WITH your wife...then it is not swinging. You won't get much support here if this is going to be done without her.

That said...you need to just talk to your wife and explain how you feel. It sounds like you need work on things with her before you start down this road in my opinion.

-Van

[Chicup]

We need JnCC back to write a sticky for the singles board 'So you are going to cheat on your wife."

I think he could do it justice and we could just link posts like that up there.

[getnit2gethr]

I think it's a good thing that you want to tell her how you feel. It really isn't swinging if it's cheating so she will need to be onboard with you. Your idea isn't rediculous either. I have spoken with a couple of ladies in the lifestyle who swing with an older married man. I guess his wife has some kind of problem and is supportive of it. Not unlike you. You've spent 30 years with her. You should know better than anyone how best to talk about it. Has this subject ever come up before? How do you think she will react?

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by midnightplayer

I will not cheat on her, but I will not stay faithful in a marriage without satisfying sex.

That line make my head asplode.

Thrax

[havefuninsun]

Well -- if her sex life is so un-fulfilling as yours is, she may:

1. Think swinging would be a blast
2. Give you card blanc to do whatever you want, as long as you leave her the hell alone.

Good luck!

[JustAskJulie]

So what you are asking is how to tell your wife you want to cheat on her... or would that be how to get your wife's permission to cheat on her?

Either way, if she's not on board, it's not swinging! That doesn't mean that she has to swing or be willing to swing but she does have be cool with what you are doing. That said, as havefuninsun said, if her sex life sucks as bad as yours, she may be all for swinging with you. If she just wants to get you off her case about your lousy sex life she may also be on board.

Long story short. This isn't about telling your wife you want to have sex with other people, this is about the two of you discussing how bad your sex life is and what you'd like to do to fix it. You explaining that you are unfulfilled and giving her a chance to actually talk to you (and you listening) about what may be going on with her. It's entirely possible that her lack of sex drive has nothing to do with menapause and everything to do with a lack of desire for you.

So how do you talk to your wife? All I can think is how said it is that you've been married for 30 years and you still haven't learned how to talk to your wife. The number one key in communicating is to LISTEN. So instead of talking to her or telling her what she should do or what you want to do, try asking her some questions about herself and actually listening to what she has to say.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

So what you are asking is how to tell your wife you want to cheat on her... or would that be how to get your wife's permission to cheat on her?

Either way, if she's not on board, it's not swinging! That doesn't mean that she has to swing or be willing to swing but she does have be cool with what you are doing. That said, as havefuninsun said, if her sex life sucks as bad as yours, she may be all for swinging with you. If she just wants to get you off her case about your lousy sex life she may also be on board.

Long story short. This isn't about telling your wife you want to have sex with other people, this is about the two of you discussing how bad your sex life is and what you'd like to do to fix it. You explaining that you are unfulfilled and giving her a chance to actually talk to you (and you listening) about what may be going on with her. It's entirely possible that her lack of sex drive has nothing to do with menapause and everything to do with a lack of desire for you.

Dito! I couldn't agree more, Julie! I have a sneaking suspicion that the culprit lies in this statement:

Originally Posted by midnightplayer

I had numerous affair 25 years ago, but have been faithful ever since.

Call me crazy, but I would be decidedly less passionate about a man whom I thought was "settling" for me. You say you've been faithful for the last 25 years? If you had been faithful for 50 it wouldn't matter one whit to me if I felt that you were begrudging me your fidelity! I don't want to be resented by my partner for any reason, and I'm guessing neither does he. How much healing ocurred after this bout of affairs? Did you and she resolve this? Did she fully forgive you for it? Did you fully recognize the enormity of what you did to her? Were you really sorry for it? And if you did, and you were, did you make sure she knew it? How much was left unsaid between you?? I'm guessing quite a bit because...

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

...All I can think is how said it is that you've been married for 30 years and you still haven't learned how to talk to your wife.

You say you won't divorce her. I guess that's your prerogative, but I personally don't believe in prolonging relationships that do not enrich our lives. Why do you want to remain married? For convenience? Legalities and financial reasons? Religion? Because that's the way things "should" be? Because it would be uncomfortable for everyone involved? Because you would feel as though you had somehow failed?

JMHO, but I think that if you're not willing forego talking with your wife and you are skipping right to the part where you are taking matters into your own hands, you have already failed your marriage. A couple I know were married for nigh on 30 years. They were never happy with one another. One day, he asked his very caustic and ill-tempered wife, "What is WRONG with you??" "What's wrong with me? Do you really want to know? I mean do you REALLY wanna know??" He said yes, so she told him. It took her 3 days to pour out 30 years of pent up frustration and anger. He asked her to stop, please, he couldn't stand to hear any more. But she said no, you asked me what was wrong. You deserve to know, and by God, I'm NOT going to stop talking to you. By this point their marriage was already dead. It was both their faults.

I think rather than handing down your sentence on your marriage, perhaps you should consider giving your wife a chance to give HER input...or are you scared? I would be, if I were you. There's a very distinct possibility that she doesn't like being married to you and feels trapped. If you asked her to marry you again today, would she do it? If she was free and clear, and had every right in the world to turn you down, what do you have to offer her that would make you worth marrying again? That wasn't a put-down, but an honest question every married person should ask him or herself.

Put it to your wife this way, "I'm not happy with our marriage. I love you, but I am very unhappy with the lack of passion in our marriage. So unhappy in fact that I am seriously considering going outside of our marriage to find something that I have every right to expect INside our marriage! Out of respect for you as my wife, I felt it is only fair to bring this matter to you to give you the opportunity to work together with me to find a better solution. Are you willing to work with me? Or should we just stick a fork in this marriage now - because, baby, if you don't work with me, consider this marriage done!"

How far gone is TOO far gone? That's up to the two of you to decide. 30 years, man. That's an entire lifetime for some people. That is a shitload of time that you have wasted of one another's lives, and of your own lives, too! That's why I disagree with the idea of prolonging dysfunctional marriages simply because they don't want to get a divorce. Let's say you have a disease and your life can be expected to end in 10 years. During this time, you won't have any symptoms, but the end comes quickly and in only ten short years. Now let's say there's a drug you can take that will prolong your life to 30, maybe 40 years, but there's a catch: the drug will make you depressed, tired, weak, and generally sick the entire time. What would you choose? If this was a marriage instead of a disease, what you are suggesting is the 40 years of living an unsatisfactory life. Why? Because someone "in the know" told you it was the "right" thing to do??

Whatever you do, I wish you and your wife luck. I'd suggest attempting to rebuild your marriage, though you'll notice that your good time together is 30 years shorter than it could have been had you only laid things on the table sooner. Mr. intuition and I wasted the first 9 years of our marriage in this way, and it breaks my heart every time I think of it. All that time, there was this other lonely person standing right there in front of me, looking for exactly the same thing: someone he could trust enough to love completely.

Best wishes to you both, and welcome to the board.

[bigjoehd]

Well i for one wouldnt be happy about having "conditional" sex & i wouldnt stand for it either,i'll go against the grain here & say that i think your approaching this fairly as long as you tell her your plans in advance & give her the chance to make things better.Nobody should be stuck in a sexless marriage & be left with divorce or no sex as the only options.

For everybody who says this is not swinging how so?. If he tells his wife his plans beforehand & gives her the chance to make things right this is not cheating,to cheat their needs to be deciet,falsehoods,lies ect,we only see single people are they not swinging when they play with us?

Back to the question of how to break it to her,if i were you i'd sit her down & tell her very bluntly that having a good sex life is important to you & having conditional sex is not healthy & is making you miserable,i'd also let her know that i didnt want a divorce but if the dull sex life continued without her even trying to seek medical help or try to find a way to make things better that i would be seeking other people to fulfill my needs.

Weather her lack of desire has to do with your previous cheating,lack of desire for you or just her own low sex drive its not fair of her to expect you as a human to be ok with the way she presents sex to you.

[ohash01]

Oh I see nothing good coming from this. Honestly - what women who wasn't sexually interested would go "SURE HONEY! Go have fun!!" I know that if my sex drive had suddenly magically disappered, I'd be pissed at the world, and if I'm not cumming, neither are you sugar. But that could just be me, being evil.

What you are planning is not swinging, it is cheating, UNLESS for some strange reason that I cant understand, she gives you the 100% okay to play alone...but I see you bringing this subject up and the divorce papers waiting on the kitchen table the next day.

Oh - and you still think this is a great idea - I'd suggest finding a way to do it so that it doesn't sound like an ultimatum. But only a very brave and/or stupid man would cite the reasons you have list above word for word.

[427v8]

Originally Posted by midnightplayer

When we do, it is after 10pm, in the dark, no oral, she is done in 15 min, me on top and I am bored. She will not talk about it, seek medical help, or take any effort to make it better.

Personally I think asking advice of the women on this board is a like asking a cat what it's like to be a dog, they don't have a clue.
The women on this board are highly sexual, self aware and open minded.

Women like your wife, and mine are barely self aware, think sex every week is a lot and are open to any idea that they've seen on Leave it to Beaver.

My wife is barely tolerable, he has her good points but sex isn't one of them.
Any discussion about sex start out with her saying No. I have to convince her to sleep with me and it's a lot of work with a lot fo rejection. Even when she does give in there are many conditions.I have to ask specifically for each different position or style which are all greated with resent.
She enjoys playing the martyr and like to pretend the doesn't enjoy sex even when she does.

I mention the above not for sympathy but to point out that I understand the OPs position...

What I would do is make it perfectly clear what is expected of her and what wil happen if she continues with her behavior. I would start with the threat of divorce and bargian down from there.

(flame suit on )

[clutch]

Hey guy....

First of all, I do feel for you... my first marriage was like yours, sex-wise, and unfortunately, sex wasn't the only thing that was dead about it.

At one point, I actually said to myself, I need to have an affair to see if anything changes. (20/20 hindsite, this is a really idiotic thing to say, because it really can't change anything in the current state. It merely adds something --that being usually negative and destructive.)

For me, and I can only speak for myself here, it was way beyond no sex (hadn't had ANY for 7 or 8 years). I was very lonely and depressed and felt like I didn't have a friend in the world. All I ever heard was well-meaning church people who said, "You must work things out. There is no tolerance for any other option -- as in divorce." And, I know that my ex was just as unhappy. She's the one who brought up divorce 2 or 3 times. We get along much better now that we're divorced and can just be normal around each other again. (But we have no desire to be back together.)

The poor/lack of sex was just a signpost for a dead-horse of a marriage. Now, that's me. If you're happy in your marriage in lots of ways and it's just the sex that's suffering, I'd truly fight for your marriage, your wife, and your life.

On the other hand, if you're where I was, it's time to call your own personal time out and maybe ask some questions like, "What's going on here and what do I want?" or "Am I happy?" "What does my wife want?" "Is she happy?" "Can we have an honest conversation about things that need to be spoken about."

If y'all are doing pretty well, except for the sex, send her to this website. Let her see what you've been exploring. It doesnt' sound like you'd have much to lose. On the other hand, you know your situation.

Bottom line, sex should be the last thing in the continuum of love and fun. Outside of love, it's kind of counterproductive. It can be more confusing than problem solving.

I commend you for being having the courage to reach out to people on this website to state your thoughts. Probably didn't expect to get such a negative response (right? yeh... but still kind of a downer) but given the fact that you're exploring and researching before you make a decision, I truly believe that you'll fare well and make choices based on wisdom.

I wish you the best of luck, my friend.

[curious24]

Originally Posted by Thrax

That line make my head asplode.

Thrax

you too eh?

[prettylady]

I am going to try and be nice because I beleive the OP to be sincere.
She has gone through menopause? Well dude, that sucks right there. Estogen levels have dropped. I am not doctor, or very good speller even. But I know full well that some women have serious problems with sex drive after menopause.
My expert opinion :rollseyes is to talk openly with her. See if things are as bad for her as they are for you. perhaps ask if she would be willing to see a doctor to see if there is a hormone theropy she can try.
After menopause, and I am not speaking from direct experience, woman suffer huge with self esteem issues, depression, anxiety, and a whole gauntlet of really crappy things.
Wouldn't you be the horses ass if you dismissed this situation as her being less then receptive and it turns out that hormones or even councelling could help her out of what could very well be a difficult time in her life.
I really hope for the best for your wife.
Sorry, I really am, but I have little sympathy for you.
After I had two kids back to back my sex drive was down. my son was only 13 months old when my daughter was born. My ex, rather then helping me through this treated me like shit and then had an affair.
After getting out of that marriage, I got councelling and figured out that I was depressed. I met with my doctor after several sessions I learnt some really great life skills, and found out that I had ADD. Treating my depression and ADD, put together with getting away from an ass that thinks more about getting his dick wet then helping the "women he loves" get better, I met a really great guy (Dog) and now my sex drive is over the top.
Once again I feel beautiful and I like it.
Sorry I tried to be nice, but I failed in there somewhere.
As for the post about the women on this board being sexually free. (not exact words). I know that was ment as a compliment. But many of us went through hell to get to were we are now.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[Second of 2]

Originally Posted by prettylady

Wouldn't you be the horses ass if you dismissed this situation as her being less then receptive and it turns out that...

Let me finish what prettylady said a different way. That ... "she has always considered you to be a big problem with her enjoying sex." Where I come from we learned that there's two sides to every story, so I refuse to take your word for it. I'm sorry but that's the way I am. I'd prefer hearing her side first.

Like others have already told you, what you are trying to do is not swinging and I don't consider you joining this lifestyle. You are joining a different list but not this one. This is one you enter with your partner not without them.

Go talk to your wife and seek help, together. She can't do it without you and you shouldn't insist that she seek it alone.