My girlfriend's body doesn't turn me on and she won't swing

[Tantra]

Originally Posted by Estaque

I can't believe the superficial responses. ...

... use a little subtlety and try to convince her to swing with you. If it isn’t going to happen and you know you’re going to cheat on her then break it off...

And this isn't superficial? It is completely the WRONG advice to convince her to swing - this is the LAST thing the couple needs to do. They need to confront much larger issues.

Chicup was completely correct to observe that it is a significant problem to be unattracted to your significant other. Personally I think that the OP may be too young to know what true love is - this is not an attack, simply a possibility.

From the limited facts of the matter - 21 years old, former swinger, highly sexual, girlfriend does not want to swing, not turned on by girlfriend, can't be honest with girlfriend about this, etc. - this all screams INCOMPATIBLE to me. Both parties are better off apart.

Oh and please don't unecessarily hurt her by saying she's unattractive - it could be one of those cases where she has small boobs or a little weight - both of which someone else might find completely SEXY - so spare her the pain and future insecurities because of your own wants and desires.

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I love a lot of people I wouldn't have sex with. One of them I call mother. It is possible to love someone you don't have sex with, but its foolish at 21 to have a long term romantic/sexual relationship with someone who you don't really want to have sex with. Sounds like it would turn into a typical married at 23 divorced at 26 relationship.

I'd like everyone who is very happy in their marriage but not sexually attracted to their wife/husband to sound off here so we can get a feel if its really important.

How many men -- when saying that they "love" their girlfriend -- express it in the same way they do their love for their mother or sisters?

And what does marriage have to do with anything? Just because you love someone now doesn't mean you have to get married tomorrow, or even anywhere down the line.

All I've said is this young man needs to way the good and the bad and make a logical choice. If he loves her then that's the smart thing to do. It's amazing how many people walk away from good relationships thinking the grass will be greener, only to find out they made a huge mistake. Happens too often.

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by Tantra

And this isn't superficial?

I'd call it humane and decent. I suppose you'd rather someone who isn't attracted to you stay in a relationship with you and cheat on you? Some people are gluttons for punishment I suppose ...

[EvilMJ]

None of us are saying you cannot love someone without sex. If 'god forbid' something happened to my husband tomorrow and we were unable to have a sex any more, I would still love him and remain married to him. There are so many things that are more important than sex in a relationship.

However at 21 you are just beginning your life, you are at an age where sex becomes very important. Will he cheat on her, begin to resent her, leave her? Maybe, maybe not. But he definately needs to think long and hard before he commits himself to a relationship to someone he has no attraction to. Sex and physical intimacy are an extremly important part of a healthy, loving relationship. Eventually she is going to realize that something is not right, something is missing. Perhaps she isn't going to want to stay with someone who isn't attracted to her.

Also I am not so sure it is fair to ask her to change for him. She is what she is, maybe she is happy with her weight, her body shape, her hair, what have you. I have seen people comment that she needs to go to a gym or lose some weight. But one thing you haven't taken into consideration is that for some people (such as myself) weight is a life long battle and I can't just drop weight when ever i want to. I have to work out constantly, darned near starve myself and basically be miserable. I have come to terms with the fact that I am curvy, I can't be model thin and genetics have determined that I am going to have big hips (just look at my mother ). Just a thought.

[She_n_Jaybee]

<ding> Time for round 3!

Although it's been quite a few years, I still remember 21. My first marriage. I was completely in love with the woman. However, several months before the wedding, I realized there were some issues that turned me off about her. Even before the wedding, the frequency of our lovemaking started to decrease. Afterwards it continued to decline. I couldn't tell her what the problem was and 14 months after the wedding we seperated. The divorce followed within a few months. My second marriage 4 years later ended the same way for the same reason. Even though I retained no sexual desire for her, I continued to love her. If she had not passed away from cancer, I would love her still, but still would not be attracted to her. By refusing to face the facts, I hurt both of us.

It might take some time, but eventually I do learn. I've been fortunate to find a woman that turns me on mentally, emotionally and sexually. We are involved in this lifestyle because it's something we both desired. If I had to use some "subtlety" to get her into it, then once again I would be hurting someone by using them without regards to their own needs and feelings. I suppose this makes me superficial.

Is that better or worse than supercalifragilisticexpealidocious?

[toadly]

I think we are discussing different forms of love. Eros being the passionate form of love we are all thinking of. akaab39 seems to be in a Philia type of love relationship that has crossed over to sex. I think you may be in love with this person but not in the traditional sense of love that would entail a marriage sort of commitment. sounds more like a great friendship that includes sex for both of you..

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I think he was pretty clear. I think any long term sexual relationship where there is no turn on is doomed to end in a cheating incident years down the road when he meets someone who turns him on again. Just my .02.

I'll throw my .02 in as well, at the risk of being called superficial. I was in a dating relationship/subsequent engagement for about three years in my early 20s with someone that was very nice, and I thought I loved, but I was not attracted to him and was definitely not turned on my him at all!

I did us no favors by sticking around that long. I knew how I felt from the beginning, I should have never let things progress past 6 months, much less 3 years, but stuck around because it seemed like what could amount to a decent marriage.

All that happened is that our sex life went to nothing, and it wasn't great to start with. And in the end, I really disliked him because of that lack of attraction/turn on/spark. Oh, and I did tell him, when I ended the engagement, that I wasn't attracted to him (yes, I was young and lacked foresight on how that would come off) - and I know that hurt him - especially after three years.

Love/relationship/etc. all put aside - you are only 21 and you have other desires that seem incompatible with this woman's desires. At 21, you still have a lot ahead of you, as does she. Basic incompatibilities at this time are going to extrapolate into a much larger incompatibility in the future, I'm guessing, if I think about my "been there, done that" experience.

And I disagree strongly trying to convince her to swing. IMO, there are WAY too many women out there that are doing this because their husbands/boyfriends talked them into it. It's one thing to suggest it, and in time, perhaps she'll want to do so on her own volition, but to talk her into it just seems wrong. It's been suggested - she's not into it at this time.

Good luck in your consideration and dilemma.

Rebecca

[DBL D]

Why does he love her? Why does she love him? Is she a genious or something? Does she tell great jokes to him? Maybe he loves her cooking. Nothing can substitute for loving your SO sexually, although I do understand things changing. You go into marriage for better or worse, and clearly a lot of marriages don't have that goal. You don't want to be a guy who's been married 8 times and still makes the same mistakes. Grow up and make the commitment to your happiness before you try to satisfy someone else.

Male D

[Tantra]

Originally Posted by Estaque

I'd call it humane and decent. I suppose you'd rather someone who isn't attracted to you stay in a relationship with you and cheat on you? Some people are gluttons for punishment I suppose ...

Excuse me ... what part of my post did you not understand? Trying to get someone to swing who doesn't want to swing is neither humane nor decent - now I know you probably meant that it's humane and decent to end it with someone who you aren't attracted to instead of staying and subsequently cheating - but I covered that in my post - did you even read it?

Anyway, this shouldn't be about your post or my post - this should be about the OP and his issue. To the OP I say, you need to figure out your priorities. Figure out what love means to you. Try and think of the future and do what's right for yourself and your girlfriend. Just saying you love someone doesn't make it true - and besides, sometimes love just ain't enough.

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by Tantra

Excuse me ... what part of my post did you not understand? Trying to get someone to swing who doesn't want to swing is neither humane nor decent - now I know you probably meant that it's humane and decent to end it with someone who you aren't attracted to instead of staying and subsequently cheating - but I covered that in my post - did you even read it?

How is it superficial to attempt to coax a hesitant partner into swinging? No one is saying to force her into doing anything she is unwilling to do. I am simply saying that maybe he can make the idea more appealing to her by accentuating the positives.

And it may benefit their relationship because he loves her but is not highly aroused by her, so he could get his sex by swinging and still maintain his relationship with her. It's not the status quo type of relationship, but hey, they don't call swinging an "alternative lifestyle" for nothing.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Originally Posted by Estaque

How is it superficial to attempt to coax a hesitant partner into swinging? No one is saying to force her into doing anything she is unwilling to do. I am simply saying that maybe he can make the idea more appealing to her by accentuating the positives.

Oh, and let her figure out the negatives all on her own??? Nice relationship values

You're right maybe it isn't "Superficial" in this context, however MANIPULATE works well here. I like #4 the best, seems to fit what you are telling the young lad

COAX
Function: transitive verb
1 obsolete : FONDLE, PET
2 : to influence or gently urge by caressing or flattering : WHEEDLE <coaxed him into going>
3 : to draw, gain, or persuade by means of gentle urging or flattery <unable to coax an answer out of him>
4 : to manipulate with great perseverance and usually with considerable effort toward a desired state or activity <coax a fire to burn> <coax her to swing with you>

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Oh, and let her figure out the negatives all on her own??? Nice relationship values

You're right maybe it isn't "Superficial" in this context, however MANIPULATE works well here. I like #4 the best, seems to fit what you are telling the young lad

As long as he is not dishonest with her I don't see what the big deal is in trying to sell her on the notion of swinging. And I'm sure if she is a grown woman she is more than capable of figuring out on her own why she doesn't want to swing. There is nothing wrong with a little manipulation in a relationship to get what you want. All is fair in love and war they say. He's probably either going to cheat on this girl or dump her ultimately anyway, so he may as well try to get what he wants out of the relationship now while the gettin's good.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Originally Posted by Estaque

There is nothing wrong with a little manipulation in a relationship to get what you want. .

WOW, I'm speechless

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

WOW, I'm speechless

I'd say more like intellectually dishonest.

I would love to know how many people who have ever been in a relationship and have never subtely attempted to manipulate their partner in any way to get what they want. Anyone who claims they haven't is most likely being dishonest.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Ill start a new thread as to unjack this one........