Wife wants to swing, I'm afraid if I don't let her she'll be unhappy

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Tempest419

All my best wishes to you, and don't you dare drag yourself into the mud with revenge. You're obviously better than that. Keep your integrity.

Sincerely,
Tempest

Although I think perhaps Tempest's views of non-monogamy do not match those of most posters here on the board, she's giving you some excellent advice. Scarring yourself is no way to get her to see the light. Standing your ground and asking her to make a choice between you and an orgasm is. If it's an emotional need she's seeking to fill, DIG IN and find out what the hell the problem is. This may require the help of a professional, but it doesn't hurt to try finding out on your own. Ask her what it is she's looking for. You KNOW this conflict is there under the water, you KNOW it can't be avoided forever...would you rather spend the passing moments, days - even years - of your lives living a lie? I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't.

[JTcamp05]

I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.


I really feel like letting her do it, pretending I'm ok about it but dumping her straight afterwards. Otherwise I can say "No" and she may well do it behind my back eventually or it could be an issue for us forever!



I can't imagine the father of her children, her first lover, the man she married, the man she confided her inner most desire to explore her sexuality with could say such a thing? There is a solution here, it doesn't involve destroying your childrens lives over it. Be open minded, talk with her, be a man and a father.....and make it work for the both of you. No one can tell you how...its just something you have to do!

[Merric]

JohnUK, I find myself agreeing whole heartedly with Tempest419 in that under no circumstances should you sell yourself out. That if you can't come to an understanding and if she doesn't understand how much this is hurting you, if she just can't let it go... then let HER go because you are right, you don't really want the same things.

I especially agree since she’s the one who screwed things up it should be made her place to explain to your kids why Mommy needs to go her own way. love to hear her explain that one to them. Maybe then she will see the light and see what her momentary lust has taken from her.

If you’ve caught my post elsewhere here on another thread you’ll find when I found out about a girlfriend cheating on me she came home to find the locks on the doors changed and her clothes sitting outside them in paper bags. And that was the end of that.

As for letting your wife do it, Hell take pictures and have some ammo for your lawyer when her attorney asks for proof of irreconcilable difficulties.

So the same as Tempest419 my best wishes to you in finding a happy life.

[BiCuriousManInS]

Hi John.... I'm in no way an old pro at the swinging lifestyle... in fact, I've never done it.... but working we (she and I) are embarking on the journey..... I (Mr.) am well versed in the mid-life crisis (mlc). I recently went through it.... (in the last few years). It sucked. BAD....for both me AND my now X. I regret it terribly.... but after there was getting back what had been lost.... as a result, I started researching mlc in all it's glory, in an attempt to understand what happened to me and my brain (which seemed to have left me completely and utterly). Fom all the reading and researching I did, I can tell you without a doubt, 30 is not too young for a person (male or female) to begin a mid-life crisis. In fact, 30 is a much more likely age for women than for men. Remember, that it's a generally accepted concept that females mature physcally, mentally, sexually, and emotionally, faster than men do. As such, it is also not uncommon for women to have a bigger problem with "30" than men do. I'm not saying that is what is wrong here... there may be many underlying problems going on. It could be something as minor (in this situation) as self esteem (hers). But just the way you described it: "It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button!", really struck a chord with me..... you know, almost everywhere I read about mlc, that is EXACTLY how it is described by the one witnessing the mlc in their partner.... in virtually EVERY case.

I can tell you this, from my own personal experience. If it is mlc, there is nothing you personally to quell it. She will have to navigate those waters on her own. Anything you try to force will most likely, and usually does, make it worse....for you. If you can sway her to sincerely attend counceling ....together or alone..... then by all means, from personal experience, that's where you should start. But whatever you do, don't try to force her.... and don't try to persuade her by suggesting that "she" needs counceling. Try to approach it from the perspective that there is 'something' wrong in your relationship (and that it's anybody's guess what it is), that you BOTH need help discovering and understanding. But again.... DO NOT try to force her. It won't help if she isn't sincere.

If it's not mlc, then I MUST agree with everyone else here, just from all that I've read while I've been perusing the site.... IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT, DO NOT DO IT. My wife and I (new wife and happy), have made a mutual agreement.... and we WILL not engage in this activity alone... ONLY together. And we have discussed it at length, both totally agreeing on what we do and don't want to happen. If either of us wants something to happen that the other doesn't want to happen.... then we mutually agree... it DOESN'T happen.

I do feel for you. While I was the one with the mlc, I came out of it with a VERY COMPLETE understanding of how much I hurt my X during it, and how much I lost that I can never get back. Just never never never try to impress upon her directly how much 'she' is hurting you.... in the mlc'er, that will likely be read as a direct personal attack. Seek guidence and counceling from a professional.

All of this just my humble opinion. Totally from the heart, I wish you all the luck in the world and truly you and the Mrs. can work through this together.

C

[JohnUK1]

Hi again all,

(My username has changed because I can't remember my password and my email address has expired so I can't get it back)

Well, the update.
We talked it through and I told her to go for it.
She went away to the country where her ex lives.
The long ans short of it is that she did it and enjoyed it.
I kept asking her while she was there if she did it and she kept saying "no".
She came back and still said she didn't do it.
She told me that if she really has wanted it, it would have happened.
2 weeks later I found a note (word document) purely by chance on her laptop which she took with her when she went.
It was from him professing his undying love for her and how he only wants to be with her even though he's married with a seven month old boy. His wife doesn't know anything by the way.
He said how he was jealous of her being with anyone else. She again denied anything happened but the next day when I threatened to contact him through someone else he knows overthere she finally came clean and told me.

She said she didn't tell me because she was afraid I couldn't handle it.
I told her many times that doing it behind me back was the worse thing she could do. If I didn't find the note on her laptop she would never have told me.

It hurts like crazy and I don't know how I can trust her with anything. She was perfectly fine the 2 weeks she was back and was not cut up because the deceit.

I'm so confused and messed up and hurt! Your honest advice on where I should go from here is needed please! Has she burned the last bridge for us? We've been together for 10 years and have 3 young children together.

JohnUK
--------

[Tantra]

I think that you need to seek professional help from a marriage counselor/therapist. You will be able to get direct help from someone face to face. If you want to save your marriage, this is your only course. I think that posting on a swingers message board is probably a waste of time, unfortunately. No-one here is equipped to help your marriage the way you need to be helped.

Just keep in mind that millions of couples have gone through similar things and have been able to work it out and find true love and true happiness. I speak from experience. There is hope. Good luck.

[JohnUK1]

I've split with her. Hope to move out soon. Wondering where!

[newandexcited]

Originally Posted by JohnUK1

I've split with her. Hope to move out soon. Wondering where!

Sorry to hear. Pay special attention to your young ones now. During a split they need to know that they are still loved by BOTH of you.

Good luck.

[athena2910]

Originally Posted by JohnUK1

I've split with her. Hope to move out soon. Wondering where!

John, I am so sorry to hear how your wife hurt you. Having been divorced myself (after an 18-year-long marriage) I know how blindingly painful it is.

Please know that we're here rooting for you and offering you encouragement. It is possible to heal your marriage, if that's what BOTH of you want. But you can't do it alone and without professional help.

The advice you've gotten regarding your three children is excellent: you must not let them feel they're being abandoned in all this.

My heart hurts for you.

Athena

[JohnUK1]

She has since confessed that she loves him! Ouch! I felt that knife twist! But for the moment I'm still staying living in the house, for the kids and financial sakes.

Shes definitely more messed up than me and I will certainly come out of this quicker (emotionally) than her. I was worried beforehand that she might be affected by this and that she was building a relationship with him. I feel sorry for her and guilty that I ever brought the idea of her being with another guy up.

One blessing (probably not the right word) is that I could see this coming for the last 6 months. I can't imagine the pain of just finding out everything at once that some people go through.

We're both determined to try and keep the childrens lives as normal as possible.

John
----------

[intuition897]

I'm so sorry to hear that things have turned out the way they did. You're right about your wife, I'm sure; she's going to be screwed up for quite a while. Take care of yourself and the kids, and don't be a stranger around here, k?

[robel12550]

Maybe I've not read this clearly, but at least right now I'm NOT on the same page as the poster.

Originally Posted by JohnUK

I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.
It's better than her not doing/exploring this and it affecting our relationship indefinitely!

John, are you entertaining the idea of entrapment of your "partner"? If you care for her as much as you say you do, I'm puzzled by this attitude of "Sure Honey, go have a good time with Harry! (Time passes.) Did you have a nice time? Good. Now get the hell out of the house!" ??? Major ouch in my book, don't know about anyone else. And I don't know how any future relationship you might have with another woman yourself would turn out once they find out about you doing something like that. (Given the remote possibility that you and your current partner might split up because of the current situation.)

In general, what you've written sounds like, given a couple years extra for child rearing duties, the "Seven Year Itch". This has been successfully navigated in the past by many people and you shouldn't be any different. For starters, this is NOT "Swinging". On top of that, at the age of 30, it doesn't sound like "The Change" either. It is the aspect of "Gee, did I get the best option I could have?" It is how you will handle yourself in the process that most likely will determine how you'll get past it.

If you feel that your partner has an emotional feeling toward this other man and she hasn't come forward with it, then you have every right to get that information since you've invested ten years of your life in this relationship. Just make sure she understands that whatever she tells you, you will accept with an open mind.

Originally Posted by JohnUK

I think the bottom line is we want different things.

This "could" be the case and you need to prepare yourself for that. If the different things are on opposite sides of the scale, then this relationship may very well be coming to a close. Since (unless the term in England for a married person is "partner") you are NOT married, there isn't any "cheating" in the usual sense. But she could be "cheating" emotionally on the relationship and maybe has been for some time. She's also "cheating" YOU out of the OPTION to experience the same freedom that she is looking for. That doesn't sound too fair, though Life many times isn't fair. This could be another part of the problem you are running into. Is she a control freak who needs to have everything on her terms? Are you just being used as a doormat for stability, money, taking care of the kids, etc.? Such one sidedness in a relationship requires the willingness of the submissive participant. Was it this way at the beginning when you decided to live with her or developed over time? When did you realize you didn't want to be submissive anymore (if that is the case)?

The biggest problem is that you have three children together. Whatever you do is ultimately going to affect them. They need to be brought into the equation during your discussions.

When another Englishman, John Lennon of the Beatles fame, decided he wanted a break from his wife Yoko Ono, she granted the request. John went off with his mistress for awhile. Then Yoko said, "Enough's enough. Time to come home." Which he did until his untimely death! Most likely the psychological makeup of those two people are different than you and your partner, but the point is that don't necessarily think this is going to be the end. Be cautious. Re-read Intuition's first response and really get the answer to those questions. At the least, you deserve honest answers to them. Do a good self evaluation and recognize what YOU really want also. Force the aspect of both of you being honest about your feelings on this matter.

It would NOT be advisable to let her go off with this other man until ALL of your questions are answered. Then you'll need to rely upon your faith in the relationship you've built up for the last ten years.

Best of luck to you! And keep us posted.

[robel12550]

Originally Posted by JohnUK1

We're both determined to try and keep the childrens lives as normal as possible.

John
----------

Double OUCH!! My apologies. I had thought I had read to the bottom of the thread before my recent message. So sorry. Please accept my deepest apologies especially in this trying time.

Also sorry to hear of your split. It's also disquieting to hear that another family with a child will be affected IF the other man actually leaves his wife for your partner.

Though it is still possible to recoup a relationship after an event like this, it will be quite difficult. It will also take a long period of time primarily because of the deceitfulness of the situation. Though you may care for the children, you also have yourself to think of and your questionable partner. (Why didn't she tell you when she returned or let on that something happened? Is she doubting whether going away in the first place really was what she wanted?) Whatever happens now, you're in the area of professional assistance to truly understand what is going on in your "ex" partner's head as well as your own.

Again, best of luck to you all!

[JohnUK1]

update!....

We have talked and talked (seen as we're still living under the same roof) and we've tried to figure out what's going on in her head. Now I know she is 30 and only ever been with me. She gave her virginity to me at 20 and she said she was in love with me before we had sex. So in other words she's only ever made love to someome she loves. While even though we talked and talked about it for years, admittedly it was nearly always me bringing it up, she wasn't really prepared for it emotionally. She genuinely thought she could be switched on sexually but be pretty much switched off emotionally. Now I know for us guys that's not that big a thing but moreso for a woman and especially for her and given her sexual history this was a monumental step emontionally speaking. We've figured that much out! She really thought she'd see it for what it was and I believed her. Of course she liked the guy a lot, I wouldn't want it any other way, but in order to let him inside her she had to open up not just physically but emotionally too.She insists that she worried so much about whether I could handle it, as it was our 1st time, that that was why she didn't tell me.
One thing I forgot to mention was that when she came home and realised I really had wanted her to do it she was telling me she'd go back and do it. But this was supposed to be the 1st time. She didn't want to just leave it without me knowing.

Yes, there's been tears and pain but in spite of everything I knew she's only human and not a robot. We still love each other so much. She says its been a learning curve for her sexually and emotionally and she's still learning. Ditto for me!!

We're taking it one day at a time. She hasn't phoned him. She told him last time she spoke to him that that was the last time she would speak to him. I believe her. That was the day we'd split up.
The kids are fine and we're determined to keep it that way!

The crazy thing is....we've come such a long way that believe it or not we both still really want to keep the physical without her emotions getting messed up. She feels she doesn't really love him and I appreciate more than I had, that that was a very big step for her. Perhaps I was thinking too much as a man. I know it would be no problem for me emotionally! I wouldn't come away feeling confused.

But do you think she could still continue with this guy. We both still want the physical side of it. She has been thinking alot about it and reckons she would be ok with it. She'd see it for what it is. SEX. She also says she'd tell me if she had any other feelings.

What's your advice in this and are there any alarm bells ringing that I haven't spotted?

Thanks again!
John
--------------------

[Alura]

JohnUK1 wrote:

We still love each other so much. She says its been a learning curve for her sexually and emotionally and she's still learning. Ditto for me!!

We're taking it one day at a time. She hasn't phoned him. She told him last time she spoke to him that that was the last time she would speak to him. I believe her. That was the day we'd split up.
The kids are fine and we're determined to keep it that way!

I haven't read the entire thread, John, but the above seems to say a lot about your relationship.

If y'all want to stay together but give your wife (or both of you) experiences you've not had before, why not find another couple and do some real swinging. It's a whole lot safer when the other people involved are as dedicated to each other as y'all are to each other.

I think y'all might do well as swingers but it seems this open relationship business could destroy all y'all have built together, including your kids' stable home.

Maybe tomorrow (Sunday) I can take time to read the whole thread. Maybe I'll modify my advice.

I lived in Shepherd's Bush for a time. Loved London!

Mr. Alura