Boyfriend brought up swinging, but now that I'm enjoying it he wants to stop

[WesternSwing]

I ran this one by Mrs. WS for another perspective on it. We both agree that something happened recently that has made him uneasy, insecure, and thus jealous. You need to find what this is. Without hearing his side of it, too, it is difficult to give advice.

Something Mrs. WS brought-up, and it's pretty blunt... Maybe he's been using swinging as a way of having you while looking for something better. After 3-1/2 years he's realized this isn't going to happen and now he wants to close-up the relationship and protect what he preceives as his. This is where I particularily agree with sereneiders, this implies that he has staked claim to you and you are his property. if this is the case, this alone will lead to problems the future.

Does he want to stop swinging altogether, or just wants to stop full swap, going to a FMF situation only?

Also, sometimes people confuse jealousy with love, thinking the stronger the love the stronger the jealousy.

Whatever it is you both have to talk about it. You have to know why the sudden change of heart on his behalf. It is not fair to you to all of a sudden call it off without any explanation or justification past "well, I love you". Well I love Mrs. WS to no end, and because I do, her happiness is essential to my own. Love can not be selfish. What some people think is love is actually possessiveness, which is a symptom of insecurity.

Mr. WS

[Additude]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Well, we have a 16 years relationship, technically speaking we're not married altough we reffer to each other as husband and wife for short.

The original poster didn't refer to the male as her Husband. She called him a Boy Friend. The difference is Marriage (whether from the heart or from a state issued license) is Husband / Wife. She used the term, which represented her relationship with the male as a Boy Friend.

A "Contract" in reference to a marriage license as stated earlier has less to do with the emotional commitment of marriage than it does with the legal commitment of marriage. A "marriage license" entitles both parties to certain legal rights and protections and is recognized by the government. A marriage license "technically" means your married. The marriage ceremony means your "emotionally committed" to marriage.

It's certainly possible to be "committed" and not have a license (contract). The two; License and Committment", do not have to go hand in hand.

At least it's supposed to work that way, but there's always exception to the rule. I'm sure someone here has an exception to the rule.

Not married (emotionally or otherwise) is Boy Friend / Girl Friend. If a couple calls themselves Boy Friend / Girl Friend then that's what they are. If they call themselves Husband / Wife then that's what they are. It's their choice and no one elses. The marriage lisence / contract just ties it together legally.

It's Friend or Husband or Wife.

There is also a difference between getting a "divorice" from your Husband or Wife and "breaking up" with your Boy Friend or Girl Friend.

It's easier to break up with your "Friend" than it is to get a "Divorice" from your spouse. Divorice is the #2 most negative emotional stress an individual can go through. Loosing a child is #1.

Breaking up with a Boy Friend / Girl Friend is much farther down the list....

[EvilMJ]

Okay, Just so people don't think I am dumping on the non married people out there... . I never said at any point that you could not be in a committed relationshiip and not be married. What I said is that it is a whole lot easier to break up with someone who you are not married to. Getting a divorce is costly and takes time. I was there when my now husband was going through the final stages of his divorce, it took a lot of money, he gave up a lot of his things just to get it over with, and ofcourse you have that year you have to wait until it is final, not to mention it can be an emotional rollercoaster.

So my point once again is.....better to break up while you are not married (if it came to that), as there is a lot more at stake when you are married. AND you can be equally committed in both situations.

Sorry to have derailed the train on this one.

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by lovedoctor

Sounds like this guy doesn't mind "openness" unless you are getting more out of it than he is!

You are so right... When we first started it was supposed to be a casual, 'open', no strings relationship. He would go months without calling, etc. But on the other hand, he became more involved in my life, even meeting my kids before I was ready (showed up where we were eating dinner). He unconsciously NEEDS a serious relationship, but consciously DENIES this.

I have loved him for a long time, but anyone I am involved with over a period of time is my friend and I care about them. Love is just another step along that axis. I can love more than one person at a time.

We have been swinging (when he's been into our relationship) for a couple years now. Last spring he told me he didn't want to be anything but "friends" and not have sex, so I decided to seek out my own relationships and swing on my own. He couldn't handle that and required 'exclusivity' by September. From Sept to this last March it's been nothing but ups and downs. I am tired, bone tired, of the inconsistency. So I told him I was going to have to start swinging again.

Basically he had control of the relationship til last Spring and I think all this other emotional crap is his unconscious desire to retain control of the relationship. It's too late, there's only so much I am willing to put up with.

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful feedback, it has really helped, along with some input from local swingers I am involved with.

Ultimately, I know I am not built for monogamy and MY issues are that when someone puts pressure on me like that, I get very squirrely. I just can't even get close to it without twitching, lol. I may not DO anything with anyone, but I have to feel like I have the choice.

As someone else posted, I believe I may have mishandled this particular episode, but his insecurities belong to himself and there's nothing I can do about that but provide insight and communication.

I am no longer afraid he will 'leave' me or I will 'lose' him. I have to participate in swinging and have friends with benefits outside of my relationship with him or I will go nuts because he's not truly committed. He can talk the talk, but not walk it.

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by wtxcpl

I've never understood this. Does a contract (marriage certificate) really make a difference? Can you not be committed without being married?

To me, yes. There is a level of economic stability involved. He doesn't support me financially or anything else, so to be blunt, I don't 'owe' him like I would someone who did. It may be messed up, but that is the way our society is. I 'owe' him what I would any human being I cared about -- consideration, tact, try to 'do no harm' but I am not dependent on him and therefore am more free to make my own decisions.

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by JnCC

Yea, there's a difference. It's like leasing a car versus buying it outright. The overall "cost" is about the same, but one method just keeps it off the books.

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by Coupleinidaho

Without your boyfriend's input, it's impossible to give a fair and balanced opinion. But from your post, it appears to me (Mrs.) that you are angry his feelings on the subject of swinging have changed. Pulling the ole' "he's trying to control me" is a bit much too. So what if he was the one that introduced you to swinging/open relationships, that doesn't mean he can't change his mind after experiencing the lifestyle. In fact, your "blah blah blah" comment really strikes me as being self-centered and immature. Communication is the cornerstone to any relationship (swinging or vanilla), and the two of you really need to work on that area, if you decide to stay with him.

You are right, I was, and am being somewhat self-centered and immature. I want to have my cake and to eat it too, I admit. He's been involved in the lifestyle for YEARS. I have not, I am just discovering how it fits my personality like a glove. I am not ready to give it up.

He wants to feel free to have women come on to him but not the opposite for me. I don't really care what he does with other women, but if he wants an exclusive relationship, why does he not introduce me as his girlfriend to them, at the very least??? When I brought this us, since it does get tiring making small talk with women who want to sleep with him regardless of whether I am sitting there or not, he said it didn't matter as *I* was the one he was with. Well, it's just plain impolite not to introduce your girlfriend as your girlfriend. Unless, of course, you don't want people to know...

He's 57 and should know his own mind, he's been married twice. I am 37, been married once, and KNOW THAT I DO NOT WANT A MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP, and have been totally consistent and honest about that from the start.

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Also, sometimes people confuse jealousy with love, thinking the stronger the love the stronger the jealousy.
Mr. WS

I think he does. I understand, I am a jealous person too because I am insecure about my looks or whatever, but I deal with it on my own. He had no idea for a long time that I had any jealousy because I simply didn't let it interfere. I feel it, identify it, and put it where it belongs -- in the 'gotta work on that' folder.

His jealousy is very possessive. I think you are right, his "I don't want to lose you, I love you" is more possessiveness than anything else because he perceives me being with other people as taking something from him. He has said this. I have tried to communicate that it takes NOTHING from him, emotionally, and physically if he's not sleeping with me most of the time who cares if I am sleeping with someone else? We haven't even spent more than two entire nights together because of his hangups with intimacy, I think. How can he suddenly want to possess someone he can't even sleep overnight with????

I am trying not to just look at my emotional reactions but at behavior. I am trying not to be too harsh on him, but I think I've reached the end of my rope. It's been a long rope. I am perfectly comfortable with swinging alone, I only want a few couples and singles to mix it up with on a regular basis when my ex-husband has the children, and to live my life (work, take care of my two elementary age children, etc) without DRAMA.

Incidentally, my divorce was mainly because I was unfaithful. I learned my lesson from that, I need to be open about relationships and not get into a situation where my emotional and physical needs are not being met. My ex and I have worked out what happened and are close friends. My b/f knows all about this, knows everything about me that I can possibly think of, yet is secretive and doesn't even want me talking to his family.

Anyway, thanks for all your input, folks, I think I have a handle on this now. I have to be open, communicative, but not compromise MY feelings on this to try and make him feel better or whatever. I have to take responsibility for how I have mishandled things, but be honest about why and what I truly need from our relationship. I have to think about him as an entire person, not just someone who is 'holding me back', which is truly the frame of mind I was in when I made the original post.

[WildMiCouple]

Originally Posted by winemedinemewha

We haven't even spent more than two entire nights together because of his hangups with intimacy, I think. How can he suddenly want to possess someone he can't even sleep overnight with????

Winemedineme.....I must say, this sounds like a relationship of convenience for him. How can you be in a relationship for 4 years and not spend back to back nights together And he's been married 3 times before Haven't you even been on a vacation with him?

Originally Posted by winemedinemewha

My b/f knows all about this, knows everything about me that I can possibly think of, yet is secretive and doesn't even want me talking to his family.

How can he not want you even talking to his family? What the hell is he afraid of or embarrassed about?

Girl......I'd walk across broken glass and red hot coals to get out of this relationship You need to find a guy that will respect you....and I'm not even talking about your swinging desires.

Good luck,
Brett

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by WildMiCouple

Winemedineme.....I must say, this sounds like a relationship of convenience for him. How can you be in a relationship for 4 years and not spend back to back nights together And he's been married 3 times before Haven't you even been on a vacation with him?


How can he not want you even talking to his family? What the hell is he afraid of or embarrassed about?

Girl......I'd walk across broken glass and red hot coals to get out of this relationship You need to find a guy that will respect you....and I'm not even talking about your swinging desires.

Good luck,
Brett

Dito

[winemedinemewha]

Originally Posted by WildMiCouple

Winemedineme.....I must say, this sounds like a relationship of convenience for him. How can you be in a relationship for 4 years and not spend back to back nights together And he's been married 3 times before Haven't you even been on a vacation with him?


How can he not want you even talking to his family? What the hell is he afraid of or embarrassed about?

Girl......I'd walk across broken glass and red hot coals to get out of this relationship

Just married twice... ex-wife, one deceased..

No, no vacation. I do not know how we did this, it's weird. I think he's afraid not embarrassed but I do not know... It's bizarre.

I guess it was just easier for me to try and be flexible than just move on. Not convenient, no, but I really believe in giving someone all the time they need. I am just thinking I am too tired to do it anymore. Plus, we want different things now.

[WildMiCouple]

Originally Posted by winemedinemewha

.....but I really believe in giving someone all the time they need.

He'd have been lucky to get 6 months from most women......let alone 4 years It's guys like these that give the rest of us a bad name

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell you're getting out of this relationship. I could at least understand if he was your "sugar daddy" or something It's about time you started lookin' after Number 1.

Brett

[winemedinemewha]

I guess I was getting someone to love out of the relationship. I am going to ask Julie to delete this thread. I don't want to add fuel to the fire with him, I mentioned this site as a great resource and I am sure if he sees all this he will get angrier than I really want to deal with at this point. I am running out of glasses to throw -- just KIDDING.

[DBL D]

To me jealousy is NOT love...it's got a bit of possesiveness built in though. No one OWNS anyone...we stay together because of our love for each other and the desire to be with that person. When things get to the point where there is no discussion anymore then it's time to reconsider the relationship.

I was reading through a manual on how to race motorcycles faster...Lot's of talk about mistakes and how they are a result not a symptom. Also talked about barriers to our success (see lives or improvement) and mentioned how they were really good things. They tell us where our problems lie and we know that they are keeping us from attaining our goal (faster times) so rather then look at them as a negative we should look at them as a positive and solve them. The barriers change as we go faster and may reappear, but by then we will know how to deal with them better.

Stop swinging and live with his barriers or leave knowing that your best life is ahead of you.

M.D.

[robel12550]

Dear WineMeDineMe...,

Where's Intuition when we need her. LOL

From what I've read, I only hear about "control". Personally, I didn't think "love" for whatever that is should be "control". From day one I've told my significant other that our relationship should be one that doesn't put shackles on either of us so we can explore and expand in any direction we desire. To put limits is to create a prison (except for when actions might put someone or something in harm's way).

For what it's worth, I would suggest talking again with your boyfriend especially about your concept of polyamory and explain how important it is to you for whatever reason. He also needs to come clean with why he has made such a change (which seems contrary to what I would suppose most men would think). If you both can't come to terms with the results of that discussion, then you'll need to decide whether living in his "prison" is better than leaving on your own. If so, then push for "the ring". If not, then my wager is there are plenty of others in the world who would be interested in you as you are. I'm sure you'd be able to find them easily with either Googling for polyamory or swinger groups.

Best of luck.