Wife Does not Enjoy, Will she change her mind?

[sereneiders]

Pakidesire,

Same than fun4ds happend here. I told my wife about swinging about 15 years ago. She dislike the idea, and I STOPPED right there. In fact, I never told her again about this, I just limited myself to slowly bring some fantasies to our bed, like roleplaying as if we were other people instead of us, and later on (with a toy I bought and gave her time to get curious enough before actually using it) as if someone else were with us -and since the idea of "another one" was too gross for her, I had to set things as if there were "two of me" to make the idea acceptable.

It was just 2 years ago that she bring up the subject again, on her own, and that we started swinging. And in part because she was confident that it wasn't a big issue for me, that she knew I had this fantasies but I never, ever, mentioned swinging again since she said no.

As for me, I find a valid question is if you're up to live without swinging, if the turn on that is for you to know your wife enjoys another guy the way you want her to do it, worths the way you may be stressing her. And this is a valid question because she may be asking herself the same, and it would deppend on your answers the degree of trust she'll have.

IMHO, the problem of being pushy with her would come from the fact that she's being reluctanct. She may end up "used" to get laid with other guys, doing this to make you happy, against her hesitation, and even growing a hate for herself and for you, while telling you how much she enjoy this, and just because she preffer this to face you.

How would you know, if she ever tells you she is enjoying this, it this is the true or a lie? Would you care to know?

[pakidesires]

[QUOTE=sereneiders]Pakidesire,

Same than fun4ds happend here. I told my wife about swinging about 15 years ago. She dislike the idea, and I STOPPED right there. In fact, I never told her again about this, I just limited myself to slowly bring some fantasies to our bed, like roleplaying as if we were other people instead of us, and later on (with a toy I bought and gave her time to get curious enough before actually using it) as if someone else were with us -and since the idea of "another one" was too gross for her, I had to set things as if there were "two of me" to make the idea acceptable.

It was just 2 years ago that she bring up the subject again, on her own, and that we started swinging. And in part because she was confident that it wasn't a big issue for me, that she knew I had this fantasies but I never, ever, mentioned swinging again since she said no.

[QUOTE]

Very much same here, I did mention in my posts that it took more then a year to get her ready for first try. I did the same as you mentioned. After a year & half of so when she said YES, but clearly mentioned that she is doing it for my pleasure. I took the chance that she might enjoy later on. I started with some camming session on net just to make her easy then a very soft swing and today we have reached where we are now.

[pakidesires]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

How would you know, if she ever tells you she is enjoying this, it this is the true or a lie? Would you care to know?

I mentioned this as well, we have no communication barriers and can talk openly and trust each other. If she will not enjoy she will not say it. She has and will never pretend.

There are many indications of her liking this lifestyle even before when we started it. Like, once i showed her porn cards and asked her to pick which excited her more and she picked two out of 50. In one a lady was holding two dicks, and the other quite similar.

We wathch adult movies together and most of times she is excited when MFM scene is there. There are many indications which prompted me to go for it. but i did all the homework i could before acting it out.

[sexyshelby]

There is a difference between fantasy and reality. It seems to me that she likes the idea of swinging, the fantasy of having two men...but in reality, she does not like it. She likes to see it on porn movies, she likes to think about, maybe she even likes to talk about, but I get the impression that she does like to do it!

I would suggestion giving it a break. Figure out what is best for both of you, don't assume you know what she likes. Talk about it, learn about it, but don't do it...at least until she is ready.

~SS

[funnybunny]

Paki,
In my experience swingers are a judgmental lot. Only you can read your own situation. I think it is perfectly possible she will end up liking it and I think you already know what is true in what others have said, namely the need to be patient and listening.
There is nothing per se wrong with her doing it for your pleasure, I am sure you also do many things for her pleasure. Not particularly to enjoy it is different from violently hating it.
My advice is, don't accept quick judgments from people who don't know your situation. Just listen to your heart. I'm sure that's not easy in your environment, so I wish you luck.
fb

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by funnybunny

Paki,
In my experience swingers are a judgmental lot. Only you can read your own situation. I think it is perfectly possible she will end up liking it and I think you already know what is true in what others have said, namely the need to be patient and listening.
There is nothing per se wrong with her doing it for your pleasure, I am sure you also do many things for her pleasure. Not particularly to enjoy it is different from violently hating it.
My advice is, don't accept quick judgments from people who don't know your situation. Just listen to your heart. I'm sure that's not easy in your environment, so I wish you luck.
fb

This brings to an interesting question, then: Why to come here asking for advice?

It may be because he's trying to understand something so he can choose what to do next about it, or because he needs to justify what he's doing by the reasure we can provide him here.

In any case, he's the one opening the door for others to comment about his problems, and he's the one who choose whose oppinion fits and whose doesn't. People is judgamental, and not becasue of being or not being swingers: we do it as the natural way to categorize toughts and get the meaning from what we read or listen. Morover, we do it honestly, so I feel that even when "swingers are judgamental" (as many others around), this doesn't deprive our oppinion from a value. This is a SWINGERS board, and people come here to listen this judgamental people advice.

Muting ourselves to prevent being judgamental would lead to a forum where no one answers the posts except to be nice, tell what people want to hear, and advice everyone to "go with their hearts" because heart knows better. If that were the case, he wouldn't be here at all... no one would even post a thread, there wouldn't be a board at all.

I respect your oppinion, and I'd ask you to respect other ones oppinion as well. We talk from our experience an knowledge (good or bad) and do it honestly. We invest time in taking care for others unknown people problems. I feel disrespectfull to deprive our oppinions from all the value just because "we're being judgamental". Just pick an oppinion and argue against these judgamental points you saw, that would be more usefull than throwing everyone's else oppinion to the trash with an ambiguous and generalized statement.

I am confident in my guts, in my own heart, in my understanding hability and in my experience as to stick to my oppinion. The previous sentence is absolutelly judgamental, and there's nothing wrong about this.

[funnybunny]

Sereneiders,
It is not because you have an opinion that you have to simplify all shades of meaning and context out of existence.
Even if he is asking for it by posting here, it is still questionable to draw sweeping conclusions from what he writes, whilst ignoring most of it.
Therefore, I think it is not unreasonable for me to suggest he give these opinions less weight than their authors would like.
In my experience, swingers are very judgmental on this subject, but it might be just those swingers who post on such notice boards as I haven't really noticed the phenomenon in real life.
fb

[intuition897]

Pakidesires,

It's true that we can be judgmental. I don't have a problem with this. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy. Sometimes we'll say things that aren't what the OP wanted to hear, but we are honest. We don't make a habit of judging just to make someone look bad or feel bad. We do it because we are genuinely concerned for the decisions they are making, and want to offer some objectivity.

Now, with regard to the problem of your wife not enjoying swinging, but doing it to please you...

I don't think I've ever heard of this NOT causing resentment down the road. If she is uncomfortable with the morality of what you are both doing, yet you continue to coerce or pressure her (and even pouting is a form of pressure), she will feel that she is demeaning herself to please you...and that should never be asked of anyone. Even if she does it willingly, it doesn't neccessarily mean she is okay with it.

While approaching swinging slowly and patiently as she sorts through her feelings will not give instant gratification, it does mean that she'll be more confident and happy in her decision when she does choose swinging on her own. The alternative is to continue the sink-or-swim approach, with her as an unhappy participant, and instead of getting to like it, she burns out on it. The result: she never wants to swing again (and everyone reaches their breaking point sooner or later), and she is angry at you for allowing her to allow herself to have done this.

Only you know your wife. This could very well not be the case, and you may be the exception to the rule, but this is just what I've observed in swinging in general.

Good luck!

[DBL D]

Hello Pakidesires,

This is difficult because only you live with your lady. Only you are the one who sees whether she wants to do it again. Only you know what her reactions mean in the midst of things.

Cultural fears aside: Even though she doesn't say she hates it, to even say that she doesn't like it all that much would be enough for me to call things to a halt. So I'd say "better to let things go now before something happens that is truly unforeseen."

M.D.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by funnybunny

Sereneiders,
It is not because you have an opinion that you have to simplify all shades of meaning and context out of existence.
Even if he is asking for it by posting here, it is still questionable to draw sweeping conclusions from what he writes, whilst ignoring most of it.
Therefore, I think it is not unreasonable for me to suggest he give these opinions less weight than their authors would like.
In my experience, swingers are very judgmental on this subject, but it might be just those swingers who post on such notice boards as I haven't really noticed the phenomenon in real life.
fb

Ok. And from here to say "follow your heart"?

Moreover when so many of us became "judgamental" because of the same facts he stated over and over, like a wife doing something she unconfortable with, just for his pleasure, added to the "i know better" attitude (that you endorse with your advice), while saying he does it because of her pleasure (in fact, because this would be a turn on for him).

I don't know you, but i've seen the results of such a recipe, it hardly would lead him to where he want to go, and risks his entire relationship. He may be the exception? yes, as many others going against an advice, but you advice allways comes from a judgment, even if such an advice were grounded on "how judgamentals others are": that's also judgamental.

I am sorry if a poster (even the original one) dislike my oppinion. I am not here because I want everyone around to like me, I am here to give back to a community of lifestylers the same sort of things I got and appreciated from them, an hosest advice and a carefull attitude towards others.

Lately I found myself thinking of swinging as an enhancer proccess: it enhances everithing you have inside a marriage, the good and the bad things, and while the good things may be pleasurable, the bad things once enhanced may become something very hard to take, and enough to overcome all the good things.

When I see POTENTIAL bad things, I warn about them because these would be the source of problems. The OP may not be interested in hearing about potential problems, just to know how to make this happen, under the belief that the good things would worth the price or that she/he will be able to deal with the eventual problems, and in this case I believe she/he would be making a big mistake.

At last, I am selfish here: I belong to a community of swingers, I want to protect the community, and ourselves, from being ill seen by the rest of the society as a bunch of amorals able to screw up other people just to get a laid. This leads me to a conservative approach when facing people having POTENTIAL bad things in their relationship who ask us for advice.

My only regret is not having Intuition897's hablility to express so cleverly the same advice I wanted to provide here.

[fun4Ds]

pakidisers, im hoping you are seing that the answers to your problems are not simple.when you came here it looked as if you wanted some advice on convincing your wife to enjoy what you both were doing. as you see there is nothing simple. intuition has given some advice from a womens point of view that is honest and well thought.your wife will only enjoy if it is her will and desire to do so.please return to tell us your desisions as a couple. good luck with your life and your lifestyle. best of wishes.

[pakidesires]

Thanks fun4Ds and all other who replied.

I read all other the msgs with great concerns. I will be back once i choose my future path for sure. I will try it a little more and if it proves that this lifestyle is not for her i will stop.

Hopefully, i will be back with her admiting that she is there with me.

[CrimsonCrew]

Dear Pakidesires
Since i am a Pakistani women living in Islamabad and me and my husband are into swinging for the last 2 years (mostly with with one couple and some soft swap), i can see what you are trying to say.

As a women let me chip in my opinion. I think your wife like the idea of swinging but not with this particular guy.

Secondly, being a Pakistani women i can say with some degree of surety that since the other wife is not involved, your wife may be having some feelings of in-appropriateness for her actions.

Get the other women involved or find some other couple. I suggest you do it as a couple's activity not just the guy and that should solve your problem.

You must take into account our culture and the up-bringing girls get.

I hope this will help you.

[Tom4Fun]

I would not continue with it. Perhaps she's afraid that you may be disappointed if she doesn't participate, or is uneasy about saying no to the activity.

Perhaps you should ask her what would be pleasurable for her?

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by pakidesires

I dont agree that i must fear of losing her this way. Infact, its other way around, she is doing it becuase she does not want to lose me.

So, she is caving in out of fear that you will get bored, grow tired of her and that you'll leave her for some woman who will want to swing, or that you'll start cheating on her. This is the #1 reason that any woman (in any culture and here in America, too), reluctantly caves into her husband's requests when she herself doesn't want it and doesn't enjoy it. This is truly sad to me. She is choosing to do something she doesn't want to do, only to avoid something she wants even less (husband leaving/cheating).

This isn't a big cultural difference. American and westernized men come onto this board every week with the same mindset.

Originally Posted by pakidesires

I feel lucky to have such a lovely wife who can do anything for me even if she does not like it.

I find this to be really sad - for her. It's not that she can do anything for you, it's that she feels she must choose what for her is the "lesser of two evils". Not a fun choice for any person to have to make.

Originally Posted by pakidesires

I have never pressurised her that i will leave if she does not participate. I must admit that i may be a bit pushy sometime but its not a hard way.

Men who are pushing for swinging never seem to understand that what they do is pressure for a woman - the way they regularly bring it up, the way they're always looking for a new angle, and how almost everything they present to their wives is yet another ploy (sex cards, new videotape?) to convince their wives to do something they don't presently want to do. The reason these guys come to this board and start posting is to find new tricks and ways of convincing their wives.

If you try to put yourself in her shoes, you might understand how it is pressure. Pretend that her fantasy is something you really don't want to do. You tell her that you won't enjoy this and you don't want it. But, she keeps bringing it up and looking for more ways to convince you of it. Knowing you don't want it, she even sets it up with somebody and starts making it happen, anyway. This isn't pressure?

Originally Posted by pakidesires

There are many indications of her liking this lifestyle even before when we started it. Like, once i showed her porn cards and asked her to pick which excited her more and she picked two out of 50. In one a lady was holding two dicks, and the other quite similar.

We wathch adult movies together and most of times she is excited when MFM scene is there. There are many indications which prompted me to go for it.

It's very common for men to draw conclusions about how they can get their wife into swinging just because their wife has enjoyed the little games they've played between the two of them, sex talks and fantasies. For many, many women, liking these things as spice between the two of you has nothing to do with ever wanting to actually swing. Men read a LOT into these things. They are not necessarily clues that a woman wants to actually participate in sex with other people, no matter how turned-on she gets with the movie, game or sex talk.

Again, this is something that is posted here all of the time, by American & westernized men trying to get their wives into swinging - these assumptions. You are no different. They are looking for what they see as indications, and end up manufacturing indications due to their wishful thinking.

A woman either enjoys this activity and wants it, or she doesn't. You can't make her like it, or have a genuine personal desire for it. You may be able to "condition" her to it over time (which is what you are doing), but that's not the same.

Originally Posted by pakidesires

First of all I must clear that I dont intend to continue if she never enjoys it

How long will you push for it and keep this activity going, before you decide she'll "never" enjoy it?