He says yes, I say no

I imagine that this has not been the first post on this topic, and I apologize for any redundancy.

I really need some thoughts on my situation . . . my husband and I have experimented with going to swingers clubs a few times and every time I just feel worse and worse about it. When we got married it was not clear that he wanted this lifestyle. I knew that he was fascinated by lesbians and excited by the idea of me making out with a woman, but I never realized that he really meant for it to go past that.

So now we have been married for two years and have come to a make-or-break point over swinging. I just feel terrible when we've come home from swing clubs because anything I do, it's to make him happy and to make him want me, but going to the clubs only feeds the appetite.

So, I've put my foot down- I just can't do it and feel good about myself the next day b/c I do it for him, not for me or us. He wonders if it's not time to get divorced.

I can't tell if divorce is a threat or what- we've both brought it up and it looms over us- but only when we're talking about swinging. Otherwise, we're really happy together. But I know that this is a fundamental difference and I don't want to disappoint him our whole lives.

I've tried. I gave it the best shot I could to try to go to clubs, meet and flirt and play. I feel like I've done my best to see his side and I'm scared that I'll lose him anyway =(

Anyone have some advice?

[wrnakedru]

Your post is a difficult one to respond to since you have not registered, and have left unsaid many things that I would like to know before responding to you. Too many unknowns to really be able to offer any definitive advice, in my opinion.

Any chance we can get you to register so that there can be some give and take dialogue? I truly feel that you would get much more helpful advice/opinions if you wouldn't mind doing that.

If you decide to do that - among other things I would like to ask are these questions: 1. How long have you been together? [yes, I know you say you have been married two years - but how long together in total?] 2. Your approximate ages? 3. First marriage for each of you? 4. How much of your social time together are you devoting to swing clubs at the present time? 5. What other sorts of things do you enjoy doing together? 6. With other couples?

You mention that he expressed interest in lesbian activity and the idea of seeing you participate in it prior to your marriage. It certainly seems that you've come a long way beyond that if you are now each considering divorce because of your differences regarding lifestyle activity. I am just trying to understand how it became so important to your "present", your "future" and whether or not your marriage can continue in such a relatively short period of time. Perhaps he was not completely forthcoming about his expectations/hopes if this is where you are now.

To me, the questions I've asked are important to understand how you got where you are. But regardless the responses, I have to bluntly say that if the future of your marriage relies on your compliance with his wishes then; 1. he has no clue what the lifestyle is about and is motivated purely from selfish ambition and 2. the marriage has no future - barely has a "present".

Sorry - but that's how I see it. It's possible it could be viewed otherwise if there were more information to go on - but that's the only conclusion I can draw given the sketchy facts we have.

WR

[Spoomonkey]

Hi, unregistered

This is a really tough spot and I really feel for you being in it. I think it is very courageous of you to have tried the lifestyle - but it is unfortunate that you did so only to please him. I wish that all couples who ventured this way were genuinely excited TOGETHER about the prospects.

As far as I know - we don't have any marriage counselors here, so please take whatever advice you get with that grain of salt. We will all simply tell you how we might respond in your situation, but our advice has never been FDA approved

If he is threatening to leave you over this and this alone, then my response to him is to grow up. Nothing irritates me more than the "I'm taking my ball and going home" mentality. Using divorce as a threat or in any other way seeking to "punish" you for not playing along is childish. Does he not realize that wives who are willing to swing are incredibly rare? They aren't easy to find. Dumping someone that he is otherwise in love with, in hopes of finding a woman who will swing, is stupid.

You gave it the old college try...

It wasn't for you...

It isn't for everyone...

I know that right now you are very scared of losing him over putting your foot down - but bravo to you for doing it! Swinging is something that you both have to want and be comfortable with - and your relationship has to be rock solid to enjoy.

You've put the ball in his court and now he has to decide how this plays out.

Spoomonkey

[SexhoundDog]

Unregistered,
You've just received advice from a couple of the best on the board. About the only thing I can add to WRNakedRU's post is not only does your husband have no clue of what swinging is about, he appears to also have no clue of what marriage is about.

I'll be blunt. If your husband would divorce you over your inability to enjoy swinging (and remember, you've taken it a step further and even given it a try!), I think I'd beat him in line to the nearest good lawyer and grant him his wish.

As the others have said, you may not have laid out all the details, but if you've told me this was not a base that was covered before marriage and now it's possible grounds for divorce, I can't understand why you've stayed with this insensitive lout for as long as you have. I think your only other option is to wait and see how long it takes him to bring the subject up again. Perhaps he'll drop it, but I'm doubtful. And if he does drop it, I can't help but wonder how long it will be before he cheats on you outright. I wish you all the best of luck, I fear you need it.

[confunktion]

Not much can be said that hasn't been said already. Great posts above, all right on the mark, IMHO.

Not just in swinging, but anytime a spouse shows the "Divorce" card, it seems to be a sure sign of immaturity. He's a fool, methinks, and this little act is showing the child inside. Wouldn't talking about it and coming to some sort of compromise that all can live with be preferrable to him than divorce? I often wonder what goes through people's minds when that happens.

Anyway, unregistered, my biggest fear for you is that even if you two get this situation straightened out, he may play that card again for some other disagreement. I don't believe anyone needs that in their lives. Last time I checked, that's not what marriage is supposed to be about.

Watch yourself and please take care. You've done nothing wrong. Remember that.

Mr. Funk

[20ishCouple]

Well, I don't think there is much left to be said....everything that has been said thus far is great advice.

I am really sorry to hear that you were doing all of these things to please your husband, of course it is good to please your SO but, you have to do what is good for you as well.

It only makes things worse if you don't. Your hubby should be a lil more understanding of your feelings. You gave it your best shot, and the lifestyle doesn't really seem to be what works best for you.

I hope everything comes together and you guys work things out, hate to hear such bad news.

You have our best wishes.

[Vespertine]

As I'm sure you already know, you've received some wonderful advice. Just make sure you stick to your guns and keep that foot down. Don't sacrifice your happiness for his.

Lots of Luck!

[hotsummers]

I feel that the both of you might not understand that fantasies are something that all people have and none can control. What I mean by that is we have little or no control over what excites us deep down inside in that place we don't talk to much about with almost everyone on the planet. Your husband can't control that he is excited by his lesbian fantasies. On the other hand you can not control that you do not share his fantasies yourself. Would I be wrong to assume that you have fantasies of your own that he does not know about??


What you both do about it from there is the question. Based on your husband's forcing the issue so insensitively and your reluctance to participate I'd say you both are missing one key ingredient for swinging: that is the need/desire to see your SO feel pleasure. For many of us, that is the main driving force. Our SO's pleasure is a main focus for our own pleasure. When they are turned on, we are turned on.

To be in any relationship and to deny ones own sexual desires would be stifling. You both owe it to yourselves to be open and honest with each other about your wants, needs, desires and expectations. As a glimmer of hope, if you do have fantasies that you have not shared with him, I would strongly suggest that you share them immediately. There maybe some overlapping common ground that you can build on. If not, then it would be best for both of you to move on and find a SO that wants YOU to be happy too.

[silverlover]

Bottom line..........swinging is not for everyone

[jeff n nikki]

the one question i would like to ask is.........what dont you like about swinging? you didnt mention that. are you serious that he is all youll ever need or want sexually?alot of people say it.......but i dont buy it.everyone thinks and fantasizes about other people,but their present relationship or the societal norms keep them from f**king everything that walks.you have a hubby(who sounds very selfish and inconsiderate)who is happy for you to be sexual with others(THAT is a rarity). if you are serious that it is not for you.....fine....communicate that to him. but the history of humans(hundreds of thousands of years) has been a f**kfest. only since judaism,islam and christianity has that changed. for the most part HUMANS ARE NOT MONOGAMOUS(spelling?????). if you really need no others let him know......if he wants a divorce then it is his loss........not yours.

[JandL]

Anytime I hear someone mention divorce I always wonder, why don't they try to salvage it through marriage counselling. At the worst it doesn't work and you can talk about the D-Word. But if it does I think you'd find that you will communicate to eachother better.

But remember, that councelling is never for one person, but the couple.

And I am not trying to imply that it's your intentional fault but sometimes when someone doesn't catch the ball it's because it wasn't thrown correctly.

So maybe a councellor will tell him to lax up, maybe he will tell you that you need to be more vocal or communicate in a more clear or effective manner. What I am trying to say is that a person should never go to councelling thinking only the other needs to change, or nothing will. Chances are you both need to improve for your relationship to improve.

I think your heart was in the right place for trying it out, but perhaps it wasn't the best way to go.

I hope my 2 cents helps.

[DBL D]

I've said it before, and these posts (especially the early ones) just exemplify my angle on it; you can't do this for your SO.

You may be able to consider it; you may be able to fantasize about it; you may be able to tell your "counselor" about it; but you surely will not be comfortable "Doing It"!

I've also said that if Fem D wanted to quit (or I did), we would--but our marriage wouldn't be threatened. I am not sure she totally feels this way about it. She may also believe that while she may be able to go through with the being with other people part of it, she feels that if I wasn't able to have swinging in my life, her life would be less than happy. I hold to the feeling, if not argument, that she has to want to do it for herself. That's the only thing that will make me happy. Seeing her realize her fantasies, and her enjoying the journey.

I feel very disheartened when I hear about a human being acting the way your hubby is to the person who should know him the best and should love him the most.

Mlae D

Originally Posted by jeff n nikki

the one question i would like to ask is.........what dont you like about swinging? you didnt mention that. are you serious that he is all youll ever need or want sexually?

***I'm now registered, the original unregistered . . .***

This is a fair question- I didn't think to answer it before. What I don't like about the "Swinging" I've experienced is that even my pleasure is for my husband's pleasure. If I were to say what I would like sexually (or who) other than my husband, it'd be men, not making out with women for my husband's viewing enjoyment. It's not fair because I didn't think my husband would care to see me doing the same things that he is asking to do.

What I see in swinging is a give and take in exploration and sexuality, and so I think it's fair to say that if I've been the only one giving, then it's not a good arrangement. Based on the hurt I've experienced so far, I'm not willing to put myself out on a limb and try to balance the swinging scale to change a dynamic from which I am not benefiting. I really don't care much about the social norm- I care that I am getting the raw end of the physical and emotional deal!

soapbox That being said, I don't see why I should be expected to buck up and take it when we are only at the beginning of our lives together (married 2 yrs). I don't think I'm closed minded about it- hell, I 've given it a shot, which is more than many wives would do! I'm not even trying to pass judgement on his feelings and choices- I'm just trying to find out if I'm being unreasonable in feeling that I'm getting the short end of the stick.

[Dr Jekyll]

Welcome and thanks for registering...

Short end of the stick for sure. I don't think that continuing swinging will help you much. In what ever form it takes on. You need to sort out the issues you have before ever venturing into swinging again.

Councelling is about the best advice I've heard. The councellor won't understand swinging as something you do, but that's life...

It seems though, as if your hubby isn't thinking with the right head here...

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by jeff n nikki

are you serious that he is all youll ever need or want sexually?alot of people say it.......but i dont buy it.

Well - I fantasize about being dressed up like "My Pretty Pony" and whipped with a riding crop while being fed baby carrots...

But I've never really wanted to do it...

That is a joke - but my point is, sometimes a fantasy (if we can assume that our newly joined txu has them) are just a fantasy. Sometimes fantasies are better left as such. Whether it is social norms, religious mores or personal preference, not everyone is a swinger.

And there is NOTHING wrong with that...

Originally Posted by jeff n nikki

only since judaism,islam and christianity has that changed.

Just a quick aside, since you brought this up...

In judaism the wealthiest of men owned concubines like cattle...

In islam (though I am not a familiar) the promise to a martyr is an eternity with a big collection of virgins...

In Christianity, one can make numerous arguements for the openness of the marriage to sexual exploration in a mutually consentual way...

The argument that "religion has spoiled my fun" misses a lot of historical perspective.

Spoomonkey