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JohnUK

Wife wants to swing, I'm afraid if I don't let her she'll be unhappy

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Hi all, and Happy Easter!

 

My situation is probably a little different from most who post here.

My partner (she) finally has come clean and has admitted she wants to have sex with another guy she knows. We've been together ten years and have 3 young children together. She's never been with any one but me and was pregnant with our 1st child at 21. Recently she's turned 30 and this has created or brought to a head some issues for her. So suppose its a bit early for a mid life crisis but it feels a bit like one. She feels she's missed out on different things havings children so young. Recently she went on a few holidays with her friends and probably enjoyed the freedom which she's entitled to!

 

The thing is...while the idea arouses me, i'd honestly prefer her not to do it. I don't want to tell her this because I don't want her unfulfilled or unhappy. Also the feeling may stay or come back stronger if she doesn't act on it ever. When I talked about the risks to our relationship she said she wouldn't do it and that she'd have to "come to terms with it". I'm afraid she'll be unhappy, and maybe cheat on me eventually. Even if there was no emotional attactment which she says, I still don't want her to do it. She doesn't want me to be with anyone by the way.

 

How do we sort out this mess anyone?

Advice from women especially welcome!

 

Thanks

JOHN

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Hello there and Happy Easter to you too!

 

It sounds like you both have a very strong commitment and good communication for you to have gone thorugh many of the changes a young parent experiences, having children and being together for 10 years. So, I want to applaud you on that first.

 

I also would like to note that it took a lot of guts for her to express her feelings about what is going on inside of her and let me tell you, I have been that woman before and it was hard "coming out with it". With that in mind, you owe her the same respect, HONESTY. If you honestly feel against her proposal, than you need to tell her. Do NOT do something because you feel you might lose her. TALK TALK TALK about it. A solution that makes both of you happy, should present itself. But you must find it TOGETHER.

 

Aimee

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Let me first echo the advice that you need to be honest. Do not tell her anything you don't truly mean. You can't tell her it's OK and then resent her for doing it later. Well, I guess you could, but that wouldn't be fair.

 

I think what's important is for you to figure out exactly how you feel about this whole situation, and what she hopes to accomplish from it. If the two of you can't figure it out on your own, you could always visit an open-minded therapist for insight.

 

Good luck,

Mrs. Fun

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The best advice I could give you both is to start asking the question "Why?" a lot. Why doesn't she want the same for you, if she feels it's acceptable for herself? Why do you not want her to do it? What's the real reason behind it all? Why do you feel threatened by this?

 

You've cracked open Pandora's Box, and now the questions are out...and need to be answered.

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The best advice is to talk, talk, talk. Ask each other a lot of questions and really LISTEN to each other.

 

Good luck.

 

~SS

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Hey angelrose, Welcome to the Board.

 

You are not in a unusual situation. It's not uncommon for women, especially those that were married and started a family young, to begin to "find themselves" around 30. In fact most divorces in first marriages happen when the wife is between 28 and 31.

 

It's also not unusual to be attracted to other people besides your spouse. She has come to you with her feelings which says to me that she is a wonderful woman who loves and trusts you enough to tell you this and truly cares about your marriage. That also says allot about how good a husband you are!

 

The differences between marriages that work and those that end is how the members of the relationship deal with the above issues together.

 

The most important rules is swinging are: 1) if it doesn't work for either of you, then it doesn't work for both of you, and 2) you always go at the pace of the slowest one in the relationship.

 

Taking #1, if a situation makes either of you uncomfortable then the other one respects that and doesn't pursue it. This can be how you swing, who you swing with, what sex acts are off-limits while swinging, etc.

 

If her having sex with someone else makes you uneasy then it should not be done. I don't swing so Mrs. WS can have sex with others, WE swing because it is a huge turn-on for both of us to see the other having fun and getting their groove on. :D We also wouldn't cheat on each other if we didn't swing. We can swing successfully because our heads are on straight like that. Swinging isn't "replacement sex" as so many "experts" in couples counseling would like you to believe. It is "additional sex" to an already great relationship and sex life.

 

If you are afraid she will cheat on you if you don't give her permission to have sex with this other guy then you two need to examine what's going on in your marriage that makes you think this way. Swinging is not a replacement for cheating. I don't cheat on Mrs. WS because we swing, I don't cheat on Mrs. WS out of love and respect for her and myself. I would never, ever want to hurt her in any way shape or form.

 

Taking #2, always going at the pace of the slowest person in the relationship. Even in swinging this changes. Sometimes it is me, sometimes it is Mrs. WS. In the beginning it was me so she let me drive this crazy train. Right now it is her.

 

What is huge red flags for me in your situation is 1) you're afraid if you don't let her play with this guy she will cheat on you, and 2) she won't afford you the same benefits and let you play with other women. This is very one-sided and tells me she's not interested in swinging, just having sex with this other guy. This is very selfish, and the very essence of swinging is that it is very unselfish.

 

So, in closing, you two need to really discuss why she is feeling this way, why she needs to have sex with this other guy, and how it makes both of you feel and how it will effect the marriage. You may also seek out some professional relationship help. Only swing, and I repeat, ONLY SWING when your relationship is on solid ground. Right now is not the right time.

 

Mr. WS

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The best advice I could give you both is to start asking the question "Why?" a lot. Why doesn't she want the same for you, if she feels it's acceptable for herself? Why do you not want her to do it? What's the real reason behind it all? Why do you feel threatened by this?

 

You've cracked open Pandora's Box, and now the questions are out...and need to be answered.

Exactly. As you know Inuition, I'm a huge fan of Six Sigma. The method there is the 5-Whys. Repeatedly asking "why" peels away the layers of the symptoms that can lead to the root cause. It works in business and in life. :D

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Hello,

The Mr. and I are working through this same thing right now so you're not alone. We started our family when we were very young and have only ever been with each other. We have been married 9 years and have three kids.

Yes we missed out on the wild young years so we are at that point where we want to have fun now. However we want to do it together. We don't want our feelings of "missing out on fun" to get in the way of our marriage. Our marriage is most important.

I think you should pay a lot of attention to WesternSwing's post. Those are two very important rules to follow. Listen to the veterans-they know what they are talking about because they have been there.

We have been discussing this lifestyle for about a year and each time we talk we get a greater insight into each others feelings and why we want to do this.

 

Keep talking! Keep talking! Keep talking!

Keep listening! Keep listening! Keep listening!

 

Then you can decide whether to jump in the boat or not-best of all you really get to know your partner a whole lot better than assuming what he/she is thinking. I know it seems a little tough right now but if you keep at it then it just gets easier and easier to talk about.

 

Good luck to you...

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Thanks all for your replys.

 

Firstly, I may not have made it clear. I don't want to be with anyone else and she doesn't want me to be with anyone else either. But she would try to understand and let me (with difficulty) if that's what I wanted. So she's not too selfish in that respect. She knows it's tough for me but she's trying to be honest with how she's feeling.

 

She says, after much talking, that maybe the feeling will pass. But as I love her so much I don't want her feeling this way if its what she needs. We've decided to wait a while and she how she feels. I admit I am hurt that its something I can't satisfy but I do actually understand where shes coming from. I know it'll only be a physical thing but I don't know how I'll feel about her afterwards. I hope ok. Also I'm worried that this might open some floodgates with her and she might not want to look back. She says she doesn't think so but did ask me what if she did feel like this. I think I'd want out of the relationship, in fact I know I would. This just isn't for me. Especially the way it is, ie: she'd never want me to be there, she's not in to 3somes or more.

 

Should I try to understand and let her get it out of her system if she still feels this way or make a stand. She says she won't do it if I don't want her to but I don't want her to stay feeling like this. I'd prefer she did what she had to do and get it out of her system, even if it means us splitting up!

 

I really don't know! :(

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You're in a very tough spot John. But unless you want to just kiss your relationship goodbye, do NOT concede to this. This concerns me:

I may not have made it clear. I don't want to be with anyone else and she doesn't want me to be with anyone else either. But she would try to understand and let me (with difficulty) if that's what I wanted. So she's not too selfish in that respect. She knows it's tough for me but she's trying to be honest with how she's feeling.

Neither of you are mentally prepared for it, and you really do HAVE to be. You can't just wing it. Okay, some people can, but generally they're taking a leap of faith together, and exploring the lifestyle together. But in this, you are just willing to do anything to keep her. In order to do this right now, you feel that you have to sell a little piece of your soul. Never, ever do this. You will hate yourself for it, and resent her. It's just sex, John. It ain't worth it!

 

But I guess you knew that deep down, right? What you're needing right now are some practical suggestions beyond, "Talk,talk,talk". So let's see what we can do.

 

The task at hand right now is to take stock of things. Measure and weigh your relationship. Be objective. Knowing what you know about your relationship, be completely honest: is it in decent shape? Does it have a few dents? Rust spots? Holes? Would a stiff breeze knock it over? If it was a car, would you scrap it, or would you overhaul it? I don't just mean the way it looks on the outside. I don't mean, 'will it get you from A to B?' I mean, is it really solid?

 

Now think a little bit more about this statement that you made:

The thing is...while the idea arouses me, i'd honestly prefer her not to do it.

You need to figure out WHY it arouses you, and WHY you'd prefer that she didn't do it. Sounds easy, but like I said before, this is going to be like peeling an onion...and it might make you cry. :) lol You've already answered a few of these questions:

...I don't want her feeling this way if its what she needs[allowing sex to control the situation, not the other way around]...I admit I am hurt that its something I can't satisfy[feelings of inferiority, mistakenly trying to live up to the impossible standard that we must be our spouse's "one, only, and everything"]...I don't know how I'll feel about her afterwards [you have a certain view of your wife that you have become accustomed to, and are uncomfortable with that changing. You are afraid you will lose respect for her...which you might if you believe that swinging is wrong] ...worried that this might open some floodgates with her and she might not want to look back [fear of abandonnment]. She says she doesn't think so but did ask me what if she did feel like this [perhaps your wife is leaning more toward polyamory]...I'd want out of the relationship [and you're not into polyamory AT ALL...this would be a serious, relationship-altering source of conflict, which you would prefer to avoid]... This just isn't for me [this might sum it up nicely]. Especially the way it is, ie: she'd never want me to be there [she's uncomfortable expressing her "unacceptable" sexuality in front of you, because she is afraid you will not still love her if you saw all the "ugly" parts of her.]...

 

Should I try to understand and let her get it out of her system if she still feels this way or make a stand. She says she won't do it if I don't want her to but I don't want her to stay feeling like this. I'd prefer she did what she had to do and get it out of her system, even if it means us splitting up!

I'm glad that you are taking this as seriously as you are, becuase it's much less about sex than it is about where your relationship is at. Have you told her this?

 

Essentially, this is where my relationship with Mr. intuition wound up, with both of us questioning our ability to satisfy each other. It was very painful, until we realized that we still enjoyed being WITH one another - moreso than with any other person - but we felt cramped and dishonest if we had to pretend that we weren't aroused by other people so that we could stay together. So we just let go completely. Mr. intuition is free to leave this relationship anytime he pleases. If it would make him happy to develop another LTR with someone else, then I'm down with that. I'm not into it myself, but my focus is on making sure he's living the life that he deserves. Neither of us is "holding" the other person in the relationship. If the relationship could be analogized by two people embracing, the marriage we had before was where we were both holding the other person so they wouldn't run away. Now, we're holding each other because we want to adhere ourselves TO each other's lives, not try to keep them in our own lives. We choose to be together, and we won't use coercion of any sort to manipulate the other person into staying. The only things we are free to manipulate are ourselves, making ourselves into the kinds of people that our spouses would choose to live with for the rest of their lives. He has to choose to stay with me. I will not bind him to me.

 

Only you can decide whether or not you want to change your mind about your jealousy and hurt feelings. And your wife will need to work equally hard to deepen her understanding of things, too, as I think she still has an issue with separating love and sex. You either change your mind about non-monogamy, sell a piece of your soul, or leave the relationship. It sucks...but them's your choices. It's like friggin' Fear Factor - the Relationship Episode! They sure don't make it easy to pick which entree you want in round 2, do they? :rollseyes

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, John. Please keep us posted.

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John, this is her saying "John, something is wrong in our marriage because I'm finding myself looking elsewhere." My first wife said this, in many more words :rollseyes , but she did look outside the marriage, married the guy she thought "fulfilled" her and then divorced him three years and one child later because guess what? He didn't fix it.

 

This is a plea for relationship help. Swinging is not about filling voids or finding yourself. Something is missing in your relationship that your wife thinks this other guy can fulfill.

 

Get professional help. Please.

 

Mr. WS

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You either change your mind about non-monogamy, sell a piece of your soul, or leave the relationship. It sucks...but them's your choices.

 

John, I take this back. There is much to be said for being concise (something that's apparently not in my vocabulary :D ), and WS, you've concisely summed things up, and stated the so-obvious-it's-not obvious: It's a cry for help. Whether you do or you don't swing is a decision that will come much later, after you have resolved this issue. Right now, your wife wants to not just love you, but be IN love with you, too. So work on getting closer to each other.

 

Sheesh, I guess I should be changing my nickname, eh? :lol:

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I'm pretty much convinced it's more than sex. It think it's some emotional thing. But I don't know what. Maybe turning 30 panicked her. (Like its that old! :lol: )

 

The thought of telling her she can't sucks, to me. She'll either resent me or cheat on me I feel. I can't take that. I wish I felt more like her then she might have something to worry about and realise what she has and forget her urges. Instead she knows I only want her but she also knows our relationship is hanging by a thread. And with our 3 childrens livelihoods at stake it must be a strong urge for her to not be able to let it go! I know she's regret everything in the end. It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button!

I did tell her that the grass is always greener on the other side and that there's loads of girls out there who've slept with loads of blokes but who'd love to have someone who worships the ground they walk on, as I do hers!

 

I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.

It's better than her not doing/exploring this and it affecting our relationship indefinitely!

I think the bottom line is we want different things. And if it was: I want potatoes and she wants rice then that's a workable problem, but something as profound as this is probably hopeless, unless she snaps out of it/comes to her senses. But if its how she really feels and not a mid-life phase then I think it's pretty much hopeless.

It's tough because the kids are pretty much oblivious to it all.

I really feel like letting her do it, pretending I'm ok about it but dumping her straight afterwards. Otherwise I can say "No" and she may well do it behind my back eventually or it could be an issue for us forever!

 

All this has affected my love for her though, sometimes I feel I don't really know her like I thought I did.

 

Could it just be a mid-life crisis that she needs help with? And she doesn't really want the sex after all?

Sorry, I know you all are not consellors but you've got much needed valuable experiences and advice.

 

Thanks again for your replys!

 

John.

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Hi John... boy did I recognize your emotions in your first post! You may want to read some of the things I've struggled with during our own little sojourn through this lifestyle. I don't hang around as much anymore b/c I'm not in the lifestyle, I just sort of pop in every now and again to see if 1) I can learn anything new, or 2) I can offer a little sympathy and advice to anyone else who is having difficulty. You've gotten a lot of good advice, but mostly from folks for whom swinging is the ideal. Thought you might appreciate a word or two from someone with your perspective :)

 

Your posts lead me to wonder if she has been to the boards and read up on this herself? It seems to me you're the only one looking at all the possible repercussions and that is scary in itself. And something that you said really screamed at me:

 

It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button! I did tell her that the grass is always greener on the other side and that there's loads of girls out there who've slept with loads of blokes but who'd love to have someone who worships the ground they walk on, as I do hers!

 

You are absolutely right. I would give my left pinky toe to have a husband with your attitude about swinging. There is a deep scar on my heart for his attitude that I'm not sure when will heal. There ARE women out there who would appreciate the dedication and monogamy that you have to offer. Everything, EVERYTHING, is relative to where you are standing. My husband's best friend complains he only gets lollipop blowjobs and sex on a conception schedule. I looked at him and reminded him sometimes we just don't appreciate what we have. And you know what? Some people are just never happy no matter what they have. For some it's just never enough. You can break your friggin' back for bending so much and they're still not satisified. In my spouse's case, because it really wasn't about the sex, it was about stroking his ego.

 

IMHO, monogamy is a gift in and of itself, too... whether or not it's what you really wanted under the Christmas tree is the question. So don't sell yourself out. For anyone, not even her. I am not telling you this lightly, as we have been living together 13 years next month and have a 3 year old. When there is a lot at stake (and you have 3 children) and you're so used to compromising and making things work, it's real easy to compromise on this one. I wish I'd stuck to my original response of, "If you need sex with other people then you don't need to be married to me." The first reaction is usually the correct one.

 

If you can't come to an understanding, if she doesn't understand how much this obviously hurts you, if she just can't let it go... then let HER go b/c you are right, you don't really want the same things. Let HER explain to your kids why Mommy needs to go her own way. When she has to explain herself to the innocent people in her life, maybe she'll get some perspective. If you're in your right mind, the shine of random sex fades when pitted against the happiness and well-being of your family.

 

All my best wishes to you, and don't you dare drag yourself into the mud with revenge. You're obviously better than that. Keep your integrity.

 

Sincerely,

Tempest

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All my best wishes to you, and don't you dare drag yourself into the mud with revenge. You're obviously better than that. Keep your integrity.

 

Sincerely,

Tempest

 

Although I think perhaps Tempest's views of non-monogamy do not match those of most posters here on the board, she's giving you some excellent advice. Scarring yourself is no way to get her to see the light. Standing your ground and asking her to make a choice between you and an orgasm is. If it's an emotional need she's seeking to fill, DIG IN and find out what the hell the problem is. This may require the help of a professional, but it doesn't hurt to try finding out on your own. Ask her what it is she's looking for. You KNOW this conflict is there under the water, you KNOW it can't be avoided forever...would you rather spend the passing moments, days - even years - of your lives living a lie? I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't.

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I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.

 

 

I really feel like letting her do it, pretending I'm ok about it but dumping her straight afterwards. Otherwise I can say "No" and she may well do it behind my back eventually or it could be an issue for us forever!

 

 

 

I can't imagine the father of her children, her first lover, the man she married, the man she confided her inner most desire to explore her sexuality with could say such a thing? There is a solution here, it doesn't involve destroying your childrens lives over it. Be open minded, talk with her, be a man and a father.....and make it work for the both of you. No one can tell you how...its just something you have to do!

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JohnUK, I find myself agreeing whole heartedly with Tempest419 in that under no circumstances should you sell yourself out. That if you can't come to an understanding and if she doesn't understand how much this is hurting you, if she just can't let it go... then let HER go because you are right, you don't really want the same things.

 

I especially agree since she’s the one who screwed things up it should be made her place to explain to your kids why Mommy needs to go her own way. love to hear her explain that one to them. Maybe then she will see the light and see what her momentary lust has taken from her.

 

If you’ve caught my post elsewhere here on another thread you’ll find when I found out about a girlfriend cheating on me she came home to find the locks on the doors changed and her clothes sitting outside them in paper bags. And that was the end of that.

 

As for letting your wife do it, Hell take pictures and have some ammo for your lawyer when her attorney asks for proof of irreconcilable difficulties.

 

So the same as Tempest419 my best wishes to you in finding a happy life.

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Hi John.... I'm in no way an old pro at the swinging lifestyle... in fact, I've never done it.... but working we (she and I) are embarking on the journey..... I (Mr.) am well versed in the mid-life crisis (mlc). I recently went through it.... (in the last few years). It sucked. BAD....for both me AND my now X. I regret it terribly.... but after there was getting back what had been lost.... as a result, I started researching mlc in all it's glory, in an attempt to understand what happened to me and my brain (which seemed to have left me completely and utterly). Fom all the reading and researching I did, I can tell you without a doubt, 30 is not too young for a person (male or female) to begin a mid-life crisis. In fact, 30 is a much more likely age for women than for men. Remember, that it's a generally accepted concept that females mature physcally, mentally, sexually, and emotionally, faster than men do. As such, it is also not uncommon for women to have a bigger problem with "30" than men do. I'm not saying that is what is wrong here... there may be many underlying problems going on. It could be something as minor (in this situation) as self esteem (hers). But just the way you described it: "It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button!", really struck a chord with me..... you know, almost everywhere I read about mlc, that is EXACTLY how it is described by the one witnessing the mlc in their partner.... in virtually EVERY case.

 

I can tell you this, from my own personal experience. If it is mlc, there is nothing you personally to quell it. She will have to navigate those waters on her own. Anything you try to force will most likely, and usually does, make it worse....for you. If you can sway her to sincerely attend counceling ....together or alone..... then by all means, from personal experience, that's where you should start. But whatever you do, don't try to force her.... and don't try to persuade her by suggesting that "she" needs counceling. Try to approach it from the perspective that there is 'something' wrong in your relationship (and that it's anybody's guess what it is), that you BOTH need help discovering and understanding. But again.... DO NOT try to force her. It won't help if she isn't sincere.

 

If it's not mlc, then I MUST agree with everyone else here, just from all that I've read while I've been perusing the site.... IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT, DO NOT DO IT. My wife and I (new wife and happy), have made a mutual agreement.... and we WILL not engage in this activity alone... ONLY together. And we have discussed it at length, both totally agreeing on what we do and don't want to happen. If either of us wants something to happen that the other doesn't want to happen.... then we mutually agree... it DOESN'T happen.

 

I do feel for you. While I was the one with the mlc, I came out of it with a VERY COMPLETE understanding of how much I hurt my X during it, and how much I lost that I can never get back. Just never never never try to impress upon her directly how much 'she' is hurting you.... in the mlc'er, that will likely be read as a direct personal attack. Seek guidence and counceling from a professional.

 

All of this just my humble opinion. Totally from the heart, I wish you all the luck in the world and truly you and the Mrs. can work through this together.

 

C

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Hi again all,

 

(My username has changed because I can't remember my password and my email address has expired so I can't get it back)

 

Well, the update.

We talked it through and I told her to go for it.

She went away to the country where her ex lives.

The long ans short of it is that she did it and enjoyed it.

I kept asking her while she was there if she did it and she kept saying "no".

She came back and still said she didn't do it.

She told me that if she really has wanted it, it would have happened.

2 weeks later I found a note (word document) purely by chance on her laptop which she took with her when she went.

It was from him professing his undying love for her and how he only wants to be with her even though he's married with a seven month old boy. His wife doesn't know anything by the way.

He said how he was jealous of her being with anyone else. She again denied anything happened but the next day when I threatened to contact him through someone else he knows overthere she finally came clean and told me.

 

She said she didn't tell me because she was afraid I couldn't handle it.

I told her many times that doing it behind me back was the worse thing she could do. If I didn't find the note on her laptop she would never have told me.

 

It hurts like crazy and I don't know how I can trust her with anything. She was perfectly fine the 2 weeks she was back and was not cut up because the deceit.

 

I'm so confused and messed up and hurt! Your honest advice on where I should go from here is needed please! Has she burned the last bridge for us? We've been together for 10 years and have 3 young children together.

 

JohnUK

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I think that you need to seek professional help from a marriage counselor/therapist. You will be able to get direct help from someone face to face. If you want to save your marriage, this is your only course. I think that posting on a swingers message board is probably a waste of time, unfortunately. No-one here is equipped to help your marriage the way you need to be helped.

 

Just keep in mind that millions of couples have gone through similar things and have been able to work it out and find true love and true happiness. I speak from experience. There is hope. Good luck.

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I've split with her. Hope to move out soon. Wondering where!

 

 

Sorry to hear. Pay special attention to your young ones now. During a split they need to know that they are still loved by BOTH of you.

 

Good luck.

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I've split with her. Hope to move out soon. Wondering where!

 

John, I am so sorry to hear how your wife hurt you. Having been divorced myself (after an 18-year-long marriage) I know how blindingly painful it is.

 

Please know that we're here rooting for you and offering you encouragement. It is possible to heal your marriage, if that's what BOTH of you want. But you can't do it alone and without professional help.

 

The advice you've gotten regarding your three children is excellent: you must not let them feel they're being abandoned in all this.

 

My heart hurts for you.

 

Athena

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She has since confessed that she loves him! Ouch! I felt that knife twist! But for the moment I'm still staying living in the house, for the kids and financial sakes.

 

Shes definitely more messed up than me and I will certainly come out of this quicker (emotionally) than her. I was worried beforehand that she might be affected by this and that she was building a relationship with him. I feel sorry for her and guilty that I ever brought the idea of her being with another guy up.

 

One blessing (probably not the right word) is that I could see this coming for the last 6 months. I can't imagine the pain of just finding out everything at once that some people go through.

 

We're both determined to try and keep the childrens lives as normal as possible.

 

John

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I'm so sorry to hear that things have turned out the way they did. You're right about your wife, I'm sure; she's going to be screwed up for quite a while. Take care of yourself and the kids, and don't be a stranger around here, k?

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Maybe I've not read this clearly, but at least right now I'm NOT on the same page as the poster.

 

I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.

It's better than her not doing/exploring this and it affecting our relationship indefinitely!

 

John, are you entertaining the idea of entrapment of your "partner"? If you care for her as much as you say you do, I'm puzzled by this attitude of "Sure Honey, go have a good time with Harry! (Time passes.) Did you have a nice time? Good. Now get the hell out of the house!" ??? Major ouch in my book, don't know about anyone else. And I don't know how any future relationship you might have with another woman yourself would turn out once they find out about you doing something like that. (Given the remote possibility that you and your current partner might split up because of the current situation.)

 

In general, what you've written sounds like, given a couple years extra for child rearing duties, the "Seven Year Itch". This has been successfully navigated in the past by many people and you shouldn't be any different. For starters, this is NOT "Swinging". On top of that, at the age of 30, it doesn't sound like "The Change" either. It is the aspect of "Gee, did I get the best option I could have?" It is how you will handle yourself in the process that most likely will determine how you'll get past it.

 

If you feel that your partner has an emotional feeling toward this other man and she hasn't come forward with it, then you have every right to get that information since you've invested ten years of your life in this relationship. Just make sure she understands that whatever she tells you, you will accept with an open mind.

 

I think the bottom line is we want different things.

 

This "could" be the case and you need to prepare yourself for that. If the different things are on opposite sides of the scale, then this relationship may very well be coming to a close. Since (unless the term in England for a married person is "partner") you are NOT married, there isn't any "cheating" in the usual sense. But she could be "cheating" emotionally on the relationship and maybe has been for some time. She's also "cheating" YOU out of the OPTION to experience the same freedom that she is looking for. That doesn't sound too fair, though Life many times isn't fair. This could be another part of the problem you are running into. Is she a control freak who needs to have everything on her terms? Are you just being used as a doormat for stability, money, taking care of the kids, etc.? Such one sidedness in a relationship requires the willingness of the submissive participant. Was it this way at the beginning when you decided to live with her or developed over time? When did you realize you didn't want to be submissive anymore (if that is the case)?

 

The biggest problem is that you have three children together. Whatever you do is ultimately going to affect them. They need to be brought into the equation during your discussions.

 

When another Englishman, John Lennon of the Beatles fame, decided he wanted a break from his wife Yoko Ono, she granted the request. John went off with his mistress for awhile. Then Yoko said, "Enough's enough. Time to come home." Which he did until his untimely death! Most likely the psychological makeup of those two people are different than you and your partner, but the point is that don't necessarily think this is going to be the end. Be cautious. Re-read Intuition's first response and really get the answer to those questions. At the least, you deserve honest answers to them. Do a good self evaluation and recognize what YOU really want also. Force the aspect of both of you being honest about your feelings on this matter.

 

It would NOT be advisable to let her go off with this other man until ALL of your questions are answered. Then you'll need to rely upon your faith in the relationship you've built up for the last ten years.

 

Best of luck to you! And keep us posted.

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We're both determined to try and keep the childrens lives as normal as possible.

 

John

----------

 

Double OUCH!! My apologies. I had thought I had read to the bottom of the thread before my recent message. So sorry. Please accept my deepest apologies especially in this trying time.

 

Also sorry to hear of your split. It's also disquieting to hear that another family with a child will be affected IF the other man actually leaves his wife for your partner.

 

Though it is still possible to recoup a relationship after an event like this, it will be quite difficult. It will also take a long period of time primarily because of the deceitfulness of the situation. Though you may care for the children, you also have yourself to think of and your questionable partner. (Why didn't she tell you when she returned or let on that something happened? Is she doubting whether going away in the first place really was what she wanted?) Whatever happens now, you're in the area of professional assistance to truly understand what is going on in your "ex" partner's head as well as your own.

 

Again, best of luck to you all!

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update!....

 

We have talked and talked (seen as we're still living under the same roof) and we've tried to figure out what's going on in her head. Now I know she is 30 and only ever been with me. She gave her virginity to me at 20 and she said she was in love with me before we had sex. So in other words she's only ever made love to someome she loves. While even though we talked and talked about it for years, admittedly it was nearly always me bringing it up, she wasn't really prepared for it emotionally. She genuinely thought she could be switched on sexually but be pretty much switched off emotionally. Now I know for us guys that's not that big a thing but moreso for a woman and especially for her and given her sexual history this was a monumental step emontionally speaking. We've figured that much out! She really thought she'd see it for what it was and I believed her. Of course she liked the guy a lot, I wouldn't want it any other way, but in order to let him inside her she had to open up not just physically but emotionally too.She insists that she worried so much about whether I could handle it, as it was our 1st time, that that was why she didn't tell me.

One thing I forgot to mention was that when she came home and realised I really had wanted her to do it she was telling me she'd go back and do it. But this was supposed to be the 1st time. She didn't want to just leave it without me knowing.

 

Yes, there's been tears and pain but in spite of everything I knew she's only human and not a robot. We still love each other so much. She says its been a learning curve for her sexually and emotionally and she's still learning. Ditto for me!!

 

We're taking it one day at a time. She hasn't phoned him. She told him last time she spoke to him that that was the last time she would speak to him. I believe her. That was the day we'd split up.

The kids are fine and we're determined to keep it that way!

 

The crazy thing is....we've come such a long way that believe it or not we both still really want to keep the physical without her emotions getting messed up. She feels she doesn't really love him and I appreciate more than I had, that that was a very big step for her. Perhaps I was thinking too much as a man. I know it would be no problem for me emotionally! I wouldn't come away feeling confused.

 

But do you think she could still continue with this guy. We both still want the physical side of it. She has been thinking alot about it and reckons she would be ok with it. She'd see it for what it is. SEX. She also says she'd tell me if she had any other feelings.

 

What's your advice in this and are there any alarm bells ringing that I haven't spotted?

 

Thanks again!

John

--------------------

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JohnUK1 wrote:

 

We still love each other so much. She says its been a learning curve for her sexually and emotionally and she's still learning. Ditto for me!!

 

We're taking it one day at a time. She hasn't phoned him. She told him last time she spoke to him that that was the last time she would speak to him. I believe her. That was the day we'd split up.

The kids are fine and we're determined to keep it that way!

 

I haven't read the entire thread, John, but the above seems to say a lot about your relationship.

 

If y'all want to stay together but give your wife (or both of you) experiences you've not had before, why not find another couple and do some real swinging. It's a whole lot safer when the other people involved are as dedicated to each other as y'all are to each other.

 

I think y'all might do well as swingers but it seems this open relationship business could destroy all y'all have built together, including your kids' stable home.

 

Maybe tomorrow (Sunday) I can take time to read the whole thread. Maybe I'll modify my advice.

 

I lived in Shepherd's Bush for a time. Loved London! :)

 

Mr. Alura

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Susan here--If she fucks this guy and really digs it, she's going to be an emotional mess. A real emotional mess and so will you, because every time you have sex with her you'll see his ock inside her. Just speaking my mind.

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Susan here--If she fucks this guy and really digs it, she's going to be an emotional mess. A real emotional mess and so will you, because every time you have sex with her you'll see his ock inside her. Just speaking my mind.

 

I'm not an emotional mess with this. But having her love him does mess me up.I don't believe she does. She certainly doesn't seem to be pining for him. I think she's just learning to differenciate between love and sexual intimacy. We in no way are planning anything definite for the future. Just spending time quality with each other for now. :)

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JohnUK1 wrote:

 

We still love each other so much. She says its been a learning curve for her sexually and emotionally and she's still learning. Ditto for me!!

 

We're taking it one day at a time. She hasn't phoned him. She told him last time she spoke to him that that was the last time she would speak to him. I believe her. That was the day we'd split up.

The kids are fine and we're determined to keep it that way!

 

I haven't read the entire thread, John, but the above seems to say a lot about your relationship.

 

If y'all want to stay together but give your wife (or both of you) experiences you've not had before, why not find another couple and do some real swinging. It's a whole lot safer when the other people involved are as dedicated to each other as y'all are to each other.

 

I think y'all might do well as swingers but it seems this open relationship business could destroy all y'all have built together, including your kids' stable home.

 

Maybe tomorrow (Sunday) I can take time to read the whole thread. Maybe I'll modify my advice.

 

I lived in Shepherd's Bush for a time. Loved London! :)

 

Mr. Alura

 

That's a really good idea, having another loving couple, and certainly what I would want. Maybe this is the way forward. She's not really into the idea of looking for swingers but rather find the right person by chance. I know she doesn't like the idea of sex with strangers. I know we could build up a relationship 1st. We'll have to see and talk about this one!

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JohnUK,

 

The fact is, there is a broad spectrum of swinger couples. As there are those who just want sex right now without any sort aof attachmente, there are those who expect to develop some degree of intimacy with their potential playmates before actually engaging into something, and would engage only if they feel everithing is ok among everyone involved. And the later ones are the ones who would fit your requirements.

 

So, they dislike the idea of having sex with strangers as much as many swingers. Perhaps the problem here would be a prejudice towards the lifestyle. A prejudice you may find out pretty often after reading threads started by curious people who want to explore the lifestyle but refuse the idea of "meeting strangers", so they say "we'd like to start and we have this friend of us we feel confident enough".

 

What actually happens is we need to fulfill a set of prerequisites before getting laid with someone (which ones or how many deppends on every one of us), and we trend to do it in a well known environment where we'd feel confortable enough and in control of what may happen as things evolve. We get rid of our previous experiences as to do so, and for first timers, the only experience they have are the "vanilla" ones. And even more if you need some emotional attachment to be able to give up yourself to have sex: you'd follow the same path you already know developing such an attachment, but disregardtng the fact that, even when you plan to avoid such an attachment to interfer with your marriage, there's no previous expecience allowing you to success on your plan.

 

When we advice against starting swinging with friends it is because the risk of avoiding these attachment problems is way higher than the risks involved when you develop a relationship from the scratch with the same purpose in mind, moreover if your playmates are also a couple who pusruse the same purpose for themselves (thus, helping "shielding" you from their emotions as well).

 

And the problem with the second option comes from the fears about these unknown folks, and the best way to deal with those fears is getting to know them.

 

For this purpose this forum would be helpfull. I'd sugger you to invite your wife to participate, read posts, ask question, and find out the swingers are regular guys facing the same issues and fears, who use this forum as a guideline to avoid both the problems you're facing now, and the eventual problems both of you are affraid of.

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I'm sorry, but you guys seem to pretty much fit to a T the very definition of a couple with DRAMA. My suggestion is to work out your issues and not burden other couples with drama.

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Very good point, Tantra. It's true that John and his wife are going through some "drama," but I feel they are making strides.

 

If they can focus their interests on couples, rather than single men, they may be able to work better with each other within an environment that offers little threat. It's hard to fear your wife will leave you for another man if you're sure that guy is head-over-heels in love with his own wife.

 

Of course, they need to solve these dramas as much as possible before playing with a couple, and that couple needs to be carefully selected. It would also help if the couple they might eventually chose were aware of the problems they've previously had so they can be better armed to help.

 

There are lots of problems in life that are hard to solve and sometimes we need help. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Alura

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I'm sorry, but you guys seem to pretty much fit to a T the very definition of a couple with DRAMA. My suggestion is to work out your issues and not burden other couples with drama.

 

Wheter I find usefull to advice swingers to avoid couples with dramas, I believe it is pointless, and even more, that i'ts wrong to advice a couple to avoid swinging because they actually have a drama and they'd be burdening other couples.

 

Both advices may seem to be the same, but they aren't the same.

 

There's no way for any of us, disregarding how experienced we may be in the lifestyle, and how well we perceive everighting is going in our marriage, to grant we won't fall into a drama. The lifestyle involves way more factors than the ones we can control, and we cannot foresight what could trigger a drama for ourselves (we may foresight what wouldn't, but this is a different story).

 

When swinging we choose to avoid the conservative approach most vanilla couple have, attempting to grant they won't face certain sort of drama. As swingers, we should be up to find out couples with drama, and to face situations that could be way more prone to drama than the ones we'd face if we were chosing to remain at home watching cable TV instead of dating other couples. JUST THEN we may take the advice, AFTER finding out a drama, to avoid playing with those folks to preserve ourselves from such a drama.

 

But we shouldn't blame on people for their dramas or for being in pain, it isn't something they do in purpose, and even less it is something they do willing to damage others.

 

If we were up to blame on others for their drama, if we were up to advice people against swinging just because they MAY harm others with their own drama, we'd be advicing people to take the conservative approach: if you have a doubt, then you better go home and watch cable TV because FOR SURE this way you wont hurt other people.

 

Swinging or not, we all have certain risk of having our cuote of drama in our lives, and life make us face drama on a daily basis. It doesn't need to have to do with jealously or a marriage issue: a relative one illnes is enough to put you in pain, and the question is if you can deal with your own drama (of any sort) as to avoid bringing it to third ones that, in some context, don't want to know about your drama.

 

So, you actually don't know if the OP and his wife could be able to deal with this drama on their own, as to ensure this drama WILL damage others. In fact, you don't know anything about "no drama" people you already played with; you cannot say "they're fine", the only you can say about them is "they're so profficient dealing with drama that we didn't notice", which is ENOUGH for you to ensure you stick to the "avoid other couple's drama" advice, but also that IT'S NOT NECESARY to advice others to "avoid HAVING drama".

 

If we were to peg what's necesary to what's enough here, we'd all have to be as conservative as to go home, watch cable TV, and close the forum because swinging wouldn't worth the risks involved.

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Well certainly don't plan on burdening another couple with our drama. We'll only meet another couple a long way down the road if we're both ready. Actually we're both (moreso her) going through a learning experience. She is for the 1st time in her life experimenting and experiencing sexual pleasure where it does not involve being totally in love with the person. We've talked and talked and she is coming to realise that what she felt/thought she felt was more her response to the act of making love rather than her true feelings for him. I believe she's making good progress in recognising the difference.

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