How will we feel after we swing?

[trinigemini]

Intuitions post did not go over my head....while in my current relationship I am scared of swinging it has not always been so...I have fuck buddies who I did not care were fucking other women. I can am fully capable of understanding intuition. While I agree with the post which say I should not do swinging right now I dont think that most of the advice I received is beyond me. And I definitly have to get over the whole monogamous thing but I agree that it will take time for me to trust my FH that he does love me and that the women he fucks ae just that ...fuck toys.....no more important to him than a dildo is to me. I have no intention and never did about having swinging friends.....it would be more just casual sex....no attachments no phone numbers exchanged.....nothing but sex and then goodbyes.

[bill&sabrina]

Why don't people pay attention to what others say? This lady has repeatedly said her SO isn't pressuring her at all. Are we as a society so caught up in an anti male attitude, we refuse to see them us anything but sex starved cavemen?

Bill

[intuition897]

Thanks iapr...I think.

Originally Posted by trinigemini

its true i have never loved anyone the way I love FH and I think I'm scared of losing him...whereas with other men I didnt really care If i lost them in the process.

Well. That just about sums it up. When you're swinging, eventually you find yourself looking over the edge of the chasm and being told by your partner that you won't fall because he built an invisible bridge. "Do you trust me?" he says. The benefits of finding your feet on that invisible bridge are phenomenal, but they are phenomenal because of the very real danger that your husband has saved you from by being trustworthy. I guess your conversation with him would consist of you looking him dead in the eye and telling him exactly what it is he's is asking you to risk by allowing him to have sex with other women. Is he able to do that without hurting you? Because if you love him as much as you seem to, it won't just hurt...it'll damn near kill you if he - oops! - "accidentally" breaks the rules, or has a quickie behind your back, or allows an emotional connection to his partner interfere with your relationship, etc. If he IS able to handle it, it's like him stepping out onto the invisible bridge himself, walking around on it calmly, maybe jumping up and down a few times to show you just how sturdy it is. "See?" he says, "I wouldn't do anything to hurt you. This is just fun. Kick off your shoes and come on out."

Originally Posted by trinigemini

FH is a great man and he does love me.....most days I know this.....however I seem to be very Insecure and need reassurance all the time.....now to show how ridiculous I am being ...because I am......FH is the kind of guy who makes me dinner every night, and before he sits pulls out my chair, places my napkin on my lap and kisses me.......EVERY TIME. He also tries his best to fullfill my every need....I'm in school and last summer he paid for my tuition (wasnt covered by my scholarship or financial aid), he takes me on vacations (our fourth date was to the bahamas) He loves my dog as much as I do and treats her so wonderfully(very big deal to me), he entertains my friends and all in all is just a fabulous man,very sweet and thoughtful) NO the problem in our relationship is ALL me. I dontwant him treating anyone else the way he treats me....it would make it not special anymore.

So...are your feelings for him limited to what he does FOR you? I don't mean to sound at all bitchy or anything (which that might, because I can't express it the right way over the internet). I guess, to rephrase that, are you with him because the laundry list of things he does for you somehow proves to you how much he loves you? What if were unable to do any of those things? How would you know he loved you? When you find that out, you'll probably find out what it is about your relationship that makes it unique and untouchable by anyone outside of it. This has nothing to do with swinging. This is something that every single couple should look for. If they found this untouchable uniqueness, there would be SOOO many fewer divorces and break-ups because until you figure that out, you have every reason to feel insecure; after all, if all that holds you together is something that every other woman on the planet could offer him, you do have something to worry about. And for him, lots of other men could pull out your chair for you, lay a napkin on your lap and kiss you before every meal. It's not the act, though, is it? It's the fact that he loves you enough to do that at dinner every night. So if he did that for a female guest that he barely knew, does that mean that he loves her the same way he loves you? I seriously doubt it. He's just being the courteous gentleman he is, and he wants his guest to feel good, too. And I'm sure she'd love it! But when he's kissed her on the cheek and bid her good night - thanks for coming to dinner, see you again soon! - and he then serves you dessert...you suddenly get it! With her, there was no communication. Nothing of importance was said with that act. But with you, you feel the love in his actions. And the unspoken message is: "I can't feel this way with any other woman but you." Wow. That is huge.

[wyandly]

You go Intiution!
I wish I could could explain it as well as you did, Intuition, but i cant at the moment, so I wont. All I can add is this: Trini, I've been together with my wife and insecure through much of it, and we are not swingers; we consider it optional and not for us, and yet we are still happy together... So I'm telling you from experience that what Intuit is saying is rock solid advice, and goes right to issues you have raised.

[trinigemini]

Intuit I dont get the feel that you are bitchy at all. And this forum has put a few things in perspective for meand given memuch to think about. You asked if he did the whole napkin thing with another woman If I feel it would diminsh the way I think he feels about me......and I have to say yes......I mean the things he does for me are not in themselves important.....but it is the reason behind why he does them that is. So for instance I know when he does the napkin thing its to make me feel special and cared for....so YES it for me it would diminish its meaning...(I told you I am getting crazy) If he does it for every woman that means he wants them all to feel special and cared for....so what makes me different from them? And getting emotionally attached to someone we swing with would probably be the worst thing he could possible do. ANd its a real concern cause he is super friendly to eveeryone....he even invited a photographer that came over just to take soem quick pics of him to come back and hang out sometime.....he makes connections to everyone and I tend to be more antisocial.....before him i was quite content to just be around my dog all day and never let anyone to far in.....I have friends dont get me wrong but I am not the clingy type...at least not usually....I dont call them as soon as I have a problem and start whining....I just have ALOT to get over before we even go near swinging....although neither of us are adverse to the idea of having sex with each other in front of other people.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by trinigemini

Intuitions post did not go over my head....while in my current relationship I am scared of swinging it has not always been so...I have fuck buddies who I did not care were fucking other women. I can am fully capable of understanding intuition. While I agree with the post which say I should not do swinging right now I dont think that most of the advice I received is beyond me. And I definitly have to get over the whole monogamous thing but I agree that it will take time for me to trust my FH that he does love me and that the women he fucks ae just that ...fuck toys.....no more important to him than a dildo is to me. I have no intention and never did about having swinging friends.....it would be more just casual sex....no attachments no phone numbers exchanged.....nothing but sex and then goodbyes.

I sure did not mean to imply you were dumb or anything like that or that you are emotionally immature and incapable of understanding what people are trying to tell you. But I still believe the advice she was giving, while accurate and very well said, would be much better intended for someone who is in a state that is fundamentally more agreeable to a swinging lifestyle. In fact this post you made here proves my point even more (at least to me maybe not to some of the other posters)

When you say "I need to get over the monogamous thing..." for some reason just sets off alarms for me. I do not see monogamy as something that someone should have to "get over." It is totally normal and natural for a young woman to want to be in a stable monogamous relationship and for many people it is through monogamy that we develop the intimacy and trust that healthy and happy swinging needs in order to flourish.

If you have been with a spouse for 10-15-20 years in a monogamous relationship and they have never strayed and never given you cause to question their love for you or their devotion to the marriage then you have a good platform for which to explore nonmonogamy.

The reason I do not think you are in a state to fully assimilate some of the info you have been given is that you have repeated stated that you at times queston his love for you and your ability to accept a nonmonogamous relationship.

Some of the advice that some of the posters have been giving is valid and accurate but some of it has been oriented towards helping you accept how a nonmonogamous lifestyle can be achieved and enjoyed while I am approaching this from the standpoint of don't go there and don't even think about it.

Say what you want about having fuck buddies and disposable lovers (thats often a sign of some form of maladjustment in and of itself but thats another thread) but I believe in your heart of hearts you want a traditional one-on- one monogamous relationship, at least at this time. And I say go for it and pursue what you really want. If you want a man that will love you and only you and will express himself sexually with only you and you are the same with him, then that is where you should be spending your time and energies. There are literally billions of men throughout the world that want a traditional monogamous marriage.

Yes we all have sexual drives and insticts that makes us attracted to members of the opposite sex, but we also have the ability of conscious choice and the ability to make a rational decision to pursue the lifestyle that we truly desire. Just because we have instincts that make us desire fantasize about having multiple sex partners does not mean we have to act on those instincts and desires.

[trinigemini]

Iapr I agree with you. Monogamy is not something that needs getting over.....lots of people love it and want it.....my problem is that I never did....until now.....I also think that FH and I need to improve our relationship and that I need to learn to trust him before we even consider swinging...and you're right that it will take time....I also think Intuition is right and I am a love junkie....I grew up reading those crappy romance novels and as much as know real love is not really like that.....since this ismy first time in love....i think i need to figure out what it really entails. And i know some of you may be asking why get married if I dont trust him cause isnt love and tust go handin hand....the answer I will give is really very simple....in all my past realationships one man was never enough there was always something missing and I always needed someone else....there has also been no other man who I even considered for a minute spending the rest of my life with....with FH i envision a future and for the first tiime I don't have a back up plan or any planned ways out. There are no longer men waiting for me outside of my relationship....and that scares me and thrills me at the same time. And right now I am not willing to share him....although I may have to stick around on this board just because of the great relationship advice I've been given.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by trinigemini

If he does it for every woman that means he wants them all to feel special and cared for....so what makes me different from them?

I guess if you answer that, you'll have your answer.

Originally Posted by trinigemini

I just have ALOT to get over before we even go near swinging....although neither of us are adverse to the idea of having sex with each other in front of other people.

Maybe if you're both totally comfortable with this scenario, it might be a good place to start. As long as you don't allow yourselves to move faster than you're ready to. It's not a race or anything.

I guess it's just a matter of whether or not you are happy with the status quo. I don't want to tell you that you need to change your mind about that. If monogamy makes you happy, then more power to you! It's just not right for Mr. intuition and me. If it were me in your position, it would be a real problem for me to try and get him to go against his nature and NOT be friendly with everyone...because even if he did curb his "friendliness" for my sake, the fact that he would be friendly and flirty and caring if it weren't for his promise would bother me. That potential is there. I just have no desire to "cage" him like that. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but I'm just saying that that is how the situation would be for me. But then again, Mr. intuition and I are quasi-poly, too. We are open to allowing one another to have other meaningful relationships as long as we don't allow those other relationships to interfere with what we've worked so hard to build between us. But neither of us has acted on that standing invitation because neither of us has any interest in expending that much energy elsewhere. I'd just rather focus all my devotion on THIS relationship.

[gatorvol64]

I am by no means as eloquent as Intuition and a lot of the advice she has given you is not limited to a relationship that involves swinging. It is just sound advice (as usual) for any couple to follow.

I can understand why this relationship is a little scary for you. It is so beyond the norm you have experienced. But then again that makes it exciting too. Imagining a future with one person and the places you both can go within that relationship is thrilling. I'll voluntarily tell you or anyone that when my husband and I first got married we were not ready for swinging, in fact, it took years. But, I think that even if we had been ready from the beginning, I wouldn't have wanted to swing to start with. Call me selfish if you like but, I wanted time alone with him. I still want some time alone with him. We just no longer have to worry about how the other will take comments we make or how the other will handle situations we find ourselves in. And if we do come across something we are unsure of, well then, we know the most important thing is to talk about it. Communication like this has not always been our way of handling things. I'm so extremely glad that it is now. That is one of the biggest factors in our ability to swing now.

I'm a friendly person, too. My husband can find something to talk to anyone about but, that isn't really the kind of friendly I am. Some think my friendly is just flirting. And a lot of it is...but not all of it is even remotely meant as flirting in my mind. My husband does special things for me, too. (We are lucky that our men do.) He also does things for others and some of them are the same things he does for me. The difference is the thought and feelings motivating the actions. If he holds a chair out for me and then for another woman at our table, the reasons aren't the same. He is showing her respect. He is showing me that also but included in that is the love he feels for me. Does the way he holds my chair appear different than the way he holds hers? Of course not. That is just the way my husband is. He loves women in general and respects them.

Now, to bring the swinging aspect in (I wanted you to be able to tell the difference). It is the same situation as above but this time the woman he holds the chair for is or will be a playmate. Are there any differences? I say yes. Not in the way the actions appear but in the thoughts behind them. For this woman you will have to add a certain degree of affection. Not the love he feels for me though. We aren't the type to play with someone we can't like in other situations. We may not be in another situation with them other than playing but we prefer that to maybe be a possibility. Make sense? And if that is the case you have to have some feeling for the person...at least what you would call liking them.

You have to decide what the difference is between him holding you chair out for you and him doing it for someone else. Not so that you can swing but, so that you can become secure in your relationship with him. I promise you, if he loves you as much as you say he does, there is a difference. When you figure it out, you'll be comfortable with him holding the chair of anyone.

Like I said, I can't begin to speak the way others on this board do but I hope its helped you a little.

Vol

[mfmyeahbaby]

I want my wife to read this

[flkeyscouple]

Intuition, Vol, and others have said so much in this thread. This has instantly become my favorite thread! Thanks!

I want to add two things. Vol mentioned that she and her husband weren't ready to swing when they first got married, and even if they had been she wanted some time alone for the two of them. I know everyone is different, but I truly believe that most marriages/relationships need that time Vol was talking about. My husband and I dated for three years and were married for almost five years before our first lifestyle experience. I am SURE we could have handled an experience or two when we were first together, but I think our marriage is STRONGER because we had the time to REALLY get to know and trust each other BEFORE we shared our sex life. When you, Trini, get married I hope you'll give yourself some time alone with your hubby to bond and create the trust that seems 'thin' now.

And secondly, you mentioned the scared feeling of not having someone waiting for you outside your current relationship. I know exactly what you mean. I was the same. In fact I had numerous affairs during my first marriage - probably many reasons but one was that I was scared of not having that security of another person 'ready' if needed. I know that might not make sense to everyone, but I think you, Trini, know what I mean. It is a false 'security' but in my mind at the time having a 'back up' person was SECURITY. Definitely a false security, I know now.

I ended up going to a therapist (Pyschiatrist - but I can't spell that word!!) and he helped me through my insecurities. Of course it was too late for my marriage - which was ok because I met my soul mate and married him!! My therapist listened and discussed my life for weeks on end before he mentioned my 'having to have a stand-by man'. It enlightened me. I had never put it in that perspective. Discussing it with him made me realize my 'addiction' to security - not necessarily 'men', but 'security'. I hope you'll take this into consideration, and possibly talk to a therapist.

It sounds like your fiance is leaving it all up to you - and swinging is something that you may do IN THE LONG RUN. It sounds like the swinging is something you would both enjoy once your relationship is sound and secure.

Good luck. I'm glad you plan to stick around! Happy New Year!!

Sarah

[trinigemini]

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all their help......FH and I will not be swinging anytime soon...we are going to give it some time.....I need to learn to trust him and know that he loves me....I also know I need to get a better handle on what that entails. FH is a wonderful man but I think I will lose him if I dont get my jealousy under control (not talking about just swinging here....have been going crazy everytime some woman calls him....he has alot of women friends...and while I dontget mad and yell at him he knows it bothers me greatly.....I just dont understand why they feel the need to call him with all their problems...he has very whiny friends) So in case I dont respond to anything else on the board(.....due to the fact that you guys have already helped me so much and I dont think there is anything else that I need to say as you all now know fears I have and I think everythings else that has been bothering me little about my relationship.....) I will still be reading and I will respond if needed. Now I just need to work on me and my insecurities and jealousy...I hate it that I'm so jealous.

Happy New Years

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by trinigemini

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all their help......FH and I will not be swinging anytime soon...we are going to give it some time.....I need to learn to trust him and know that he loves me....I also know I need to get a better handle on what that entails. FH is a wonderful man but I think I will lose him if I dont get my jealousy under control (not talking about just swinging here....have been going crazy everytime some woman calls him....he has alot of women friends...and while I dontget mad and yell at him he knows it bothers me greatly.....I just dont understand why they feel the need to call him with all their problems...he has very whiny friends) So in case I dont respond to anything else on the board(.....due to the fact that you guys have already helped me so much and I dont think there is anything else that I need to say as you all now know fears I have and I think everythings else that has been bothering me little about my relationship.....) I will still be reading and I will respond if needed. Now I just need to work on me and my insecurities and jealousy...I hate it that I'm so jealous.

Happy New Years

Trinigemini, you've already taken the biggest step, right here. You've identified the issue so now you can move forward.

Remember, transformation is never easy, but in the end it's always worth it.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

I am by no means as eloquent as Intuition and a lot of the advice she has given you is not limited to a relationship that involves swinging. It is just sound advice (as usual) for any couple to follow.

You know, this is exactly the point in the grand scheme of things. People always ask "how do you do it?" and you try to explain to them the dynamics of our relationship, but they just don't get it. They are still too stuck on what the selfish aspects of love and they don't see the stuff right below the surface that really keeps a relationship together. They focus on material relationship things - including sex - more than the things that really count.

If many could understand what Mrs. WS and I understand, and learn what we've learned about each other and ourselves, without swinging, than I feel the divorce rate would be allot less.

Mr. WS

[ownerspet]

Two Things: (I see here from a possible or potential newbie perspective)
1. Regardless with the female freinds of his, you seem to be insecure if only slightly. You need to think long and hard on how to get past this regardless of your decision to swing. I'm fortunate to have the most encouraging girlfreind that also has more freinds of the opposite sex than the same sex (it's nothing we talk about much, but it's something I'm confident in with my security).
2. It sounds as though some of the individuals here are right: You do have valid concerns about swinging that may make swinging not a necessarily a bad decision, but a non-ideal decision for your lifestyle.

Conclusion to my Post: Definitely work on and get past insecurities with him, because he will continue to have freinds of the opposite sex. However, it doesn't mean that you have something to worry about. You should feel free to ask him as much as you want about his freindships. Furthermore, before swinging you need to get past these other issues, should you decide to get into swinging. These are things that you need to be open with him about, and he should be involved every step of the way, so that he doesn't assume he knows your expectations, and you dont assume that you know his expectations.