GFE - Prostitution In The Lifestyle, Part II

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Chip_n_Muffy

If I were in the situation, and found out later that the woman I was with was a paid by the night escort and had sex with me so that her partner could have sex with Muffy, I would feel used. And so would Muffy I imagine. The bottom line is, I do not like liars. In my business life, in my personal life, or in my sex life. And I doubt any rationalization, any explaining, any "try to understand" would take that feeling away from me.

Is it possible for a swinger to feel "used and dirty?" I think it is.

Chip

I would feel this same way. I definitely think a swinger can feel used and dirty. Spoo and I were just discussing this a couple of days ago only in regard to singles. Different topic but in short I told him that with singles that we meet (which is usually on line) I don't like to email a little, meet for dinner and then invite them over to f***. The reason being is when we have done this is the past (early in the lifestyle) we realize they aren't someone we'd want to repeat with or be friends with so I kind of feel like the "wham Bam thank you ma'am". You know how you feel like some singles think your the poor horny house wife that isn't getting any. :rollseyes I can't explain it but it does just make me feel used when this happens with singles, so our rule now is they have to become friends way before they are ever going to get me in bed.

Didn't mean to go off there in another direction just wanted to touch on what Chip said about feeling used and dirty.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[singleagain]

Wow...Spoo, I didn't mean to hijack your thread but it seems that I have become the center of attention here...or is it my friend and I that have. In any case give me a few days to digest all the questions. I would love to address all of them but the task is daunting. Let me suggest to you all that you carefully read every post. There are posts in this thread that clearly answer most every question much better than I could. What I'm going to say next is not meant to change directions or cause further confusion but I think it is analagous to what we have been talking about.

I don't like to swing with Asian couples...some do.
I like to swing with black couples...some don't.
Lawyers are too legal for me...for others they aren't.
I look less for physical beauty...others look more for it.
I don't care for swinging with a couple with a bi male...some want only that.
I don't have a problem paying an escort to accompany me as my date...others do.

This list of what I or you desire or like could go on and on and on and on...

I think you get the picture. Yes I would like to find someone who would enjoy swinging with me in every facet of life. I would love to swing on down to the grocery store with her on Saturday morning. I would find it very satisfying to attend church on Sunday with her on my arm. Monday night would be just great sitting on my couch holding her watching 24. The problem has simply been finding that very elusive female that would including the word "swinging" in her vocabulary without prejudice or disdain. My "escort" has in fact accompanied me to church, concerts, sporting events, upscale restuarants and many other places and activities most without any sex at all. She likes to swing and so do I. She has to earn a living as well. And her teenage daughter has to be supported. She doesn't want to be married or in a long term relationship and is very satisfied that her select few clients take care of her needs just fine.

Now I know that all this is far from the original intent of this thread. So let me state it again. I agree with Spoo and all of you who think that swing clubs are not places for prostitution. And, no, I have never paid her to have sex with the male of a couple just so I could get to his wife. We swing with people who approach us. Neither of us are into bed post notching. So, if you were ever to meet us in a club or other venue you would not in a million years guess what we do for a living.

Tybee Swing, you asked "Very interesting. Was it just the two girls playing, or did you all four participate? What was your female friend's actual initial response, when she found out the true nature of your arrangement? What changed her mind and made her decide that she'd like to do this again (now that she's in the loop)? "

Yes it started out with just the two girls playing while her husband and I watched. They approached us and began to chat us up and the guys just left them to each other. I in no way pressured my friend to play or interact. Next thing I know she was "teaching" our new found acquaintance the joys of ff sex. After a couple of climaxes each we were asked to join in and we all enjoyed each other's bodies for an extended period. Later, girl-girl talk led to each of them talking about their lives outside swinging. She was put off a little at first, but somehow the attraction that had started when no one knew much about each other continued to grow. With that I will take time in the near future to answer each question in your long post. It will take a little while so be patient.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by singleagain

Wow...Spoo, I didn't mean to hijack your thread but it seems that I have become the center of attention here...

Not at all! I am glad there is someone here to take the antagonist position - if there were not, we'd probably all just be sitting around intellectually masturbating each other

I think you said it well - some are okay with it, some are not. To each their own. Please - keep fielding and discussing as the thread takes its own shape!

Spoomonkey

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by singleagain

I don't like to swing with Asian couples...some do.
I like to swing with black couples...some don't.
Lawyers are too legal for me...for others they aren't.
I look less for physical beauty...others look more for it.
I don't care for swinging with a couple with a bi male...some want only that.
I don't have a problem paying an escort to accompany me as my date...others do.

This list of what I or you desire or like could go on and on and on and on...

And, no, I have never paid her to have sex with the male of a couple just so I could get to his wife. We swing with people who approach us. Neither of us are into bed post notching. So, if you were ever to meet us in a club or other venue you would not in a million years guess what we do for a living.

This raised some thoughts and questions so I thought I'd go ahead and throw them out there.

Asians, Blacks and physical beauty can all be determined immediately up front so I can choose whether or not I want to approach or be approached by a certain couple.

Lawyers well I see your point there and although some would think what they do is illegal their profession is not.

A Bi-male...well since swinging is all about sex and (I'll generalize here) I'd guess just about everyone knows this is something that needs to be brought up early in a conversation out of lifestyle courtesy so to speak and could be addressed so you can choose to play or not.

An Escort - do you offer the same courtesy to let a potential playmate know up front that you are with an Escort. It is, as I found from some of the club rules, not allowed and is illegal. We are also selective with who we choose to play with and some couples we won't just on the basis of how they play in the lifestyle (i.e. they take greater risks in their play - therefore potentially could expose us to those risks that we are not willing to take). A prostitute/Escort by merit of her chosen profession exposes herself to risks that we are not willing to be exposed to by playing with one.

Lastly you said "I have never paid her to have sex with the male of a couple just so I could get to his wife", but if you are paying her for her services (to come with you to the club) you technically are.
It sound like you use the same lady every time and seem to have a bit of a client/friendship type deal going on with her. But you still pay her to be with you which maybe not in your personal situation but over all does put her in the position of no veto rights. So someone bringing an Escort could get to play with a woman he wants whether the escort is attracted to the husband or not...it's just another day (night) of work.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[ohash01]

I agree with Mrs. Spoo. Unless it was straightly stated that "my lady-friend is a professional escort", that's very dishonest. I, personally, don't want J. playing with an escort. Escort in my mind = prostitute = ewww.

I will say that I know there are some prostitutes out there that "do it right" and are careful and clean, but why add that extra risk to the risks we already take as swingers?

As for legalizing it, sure...why not? I see no problem with making it legal. We can tax it just like cigarettes or alcohol...that makes sense to me too. Perhaps we'd be able to set up national health care or free college educations...and I'm all-for both of those. I'm just stating right now that I would never partake, and as long as I'm alive and kickin', J. will never partake either.

Frankly, I can't get wood unless I feel like the woman I am playing with is attracted to me.

I am a female, so it is physically impossible for me to "get wood", but I feel the same way. I want all parties involved to be attracted to one another without it being fake.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by ohash01

I am a female, so it is physically impossible for me to "get wood".

It's over rated and embarrassing in public

Spoomonkey

[flkeyscouple]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

It's over rated and embarrassing in public

Ya but I think it would be a great time and fun to play with!!

Sarah

[singleagain]

There are several observations I have made in life that I will address in this post. It seems like some things are the same in the swinger’s world as they are in the vanilla (I love that word) world. There is another word I use that usually puts a bad taste in people’s mouths. This word is the one that so many people have told me is just wrong. It’s the word discrimination. We all use it…we all apply it. If you say you do not discriminate then you need to rethink every decision you make. You see, its not possible to avoid discrimination if one makes decisions.

I choose to use the services of an escort. I pay her to act as if she is my exclusive partner in certain situations such as swinging. If I never outed her as an escort, no one would ever realize that our relationship was what it is. Let me approach it this way. Let’s say you place an add on a good contact site saying you are an attractive, sexually charged couple looking for like minded individuals. This means that you don’t want to meet unattractive people who find sex to be reserved for pro-creation only. See you have already discriminated. Now suppose you are a Caucasian couple and your simple add gets the attention of a couple like this: He is black, handsome, well built and works at the local city sewage treatment facility cleaning pumps. His wife is a fantastically beautiful red head, lovely natural 36D breasts, stands 5’9” and weighs about 130. She is an independent escort who works only in cities at least 50 miles from her home. He knows what she does and, naturally, she knows what he does. They are also swingers. Here’s where I run into what I think is hypocrisy. If they never told you where they work, you might play with them based on their physical beauty alone. If fact this couple might look so good on paper (no pictures) that you just can’t wait to see them in person so you can make a discriminating decision on whether to play with them or not. Suppose again that he stated that he was a sanitation engineer with the largest employer in the area and that she was a consultant in the bedding industry. They wouldn’t exactly be lying would they? And of course he is not paying her to accompany him to a club or on a date to meet a couple for the possibility of recreational sex. And I think that is where the rub comes in for most of the people who have posted on this thread.

Just as I don’t tell people up front that I suffer from psoriases (a non-contagious skin condition that I have under control), I don’t tell people what I do to earn an income which is in the mid 6 figure range. Nor do I volunteer that she is a paid escort. Why? Because she doesn’t act like one when she is with me. Truth be told, she treats me better than some women I have met in the lifestyle treat their partners and she has expressed that I give her the freedom to swing that she can get no where else. In fact, there is never a time when the green-eyed monster jumps into the middle of our play pile and complains of the pleasure either of us experiences. How many of you can say that has never happened in your situation. We do not do anything illegal at the club. No money changes hands…no offers to play for money are made to others…and she is never required to do anything she doesn’t want to do anyway. She does have the right to “veto” anyone she is not comfortable with and I think because she is much better at using her “problem detection radar” I am safer with her than I am without. Also, I turned down a number of others who would have accompanied me to swing clubs simply because they let me know up front that would consider it an opportunity to meet other single guys who might need their services. Just as most other swingers, she and I do not talk of our private lives or play with another couple or person until there is a level of familiarity established and all involved feel the need to explore each other’s private lives. And not once has anyone ever approached us and asked if either of us is an escort.

The risk factors involved with playing with my escort are probably no greater than they would be playing with a person you met on any given night and just couldn’t leave until you and that person had experienced a mutually satisfying climax as a result of sexual play with each other. That is an exposure that neither of us would ever consider. We never play on the first date with anyone. And we are just as selective, if not more so, that most other people we know.

I met my escort the same way most of you met your swing partners. By searching on the internet and talking with others who use escort services I found this lady. She came with high references from men and women who in the vanilla world would be considered “classy”. Just so you know, I didn’t do this as a last resort, but did it in concert with searching for a single female swinger the same way most of you do. In fact, my escort has introduced me to several ladies, alas, none of which have rung my bell…back to that old discrimination thing again. And being an escort does not mean that she does not have the same desires that some other single, divorced or widowed lady would be interested in. It has been my experience that escorts worry just as much about single guys and most swingers do and for the same reasons. I was very fortunate that this lady agreed to meet me in the first place.

Forgive me for not remembering who made the following statement: “I have to agree with Spoo and others - I believe that many couples in the Lifestyle would take offense to learning they've just had sex with a prostitute, as opposed to an actual couple like themselves. Even if the couple they've just been with is apparently "just dating" (not in a very serious relationship yet) or appears to be friends/swing partners (not for money), this is a big difference from the reality that this couple is a man and his paid escort. I know my husband and I would be very rattled by that, to say the least.” I completely understand how this person feels. I too, might feel that way with just any “prostitute.” Just like I would not pick up a prostitute on the corner I wouldn’t swing with any and everybody I meet in the lifestyle. First things first…they must be really into recreational sex without strings attached and there must be chemistry…not to mention a level of class that sets them apart. We exhibit that class wherever we go together. If I told you who her other clients are (all three of them) you would not ever doubt her classiness. We really do like each other and enjoy each other’s company in venues other than swinging. She loves nascar racing and the opera. We attend both together…no sex there. Someone on this thread said “I'm just not 100% sure how I'd feel about sex with you two if I had all of the facts.” I submit that that is a statement that most of us might make if we had all of the facts about most of our play partners.

Forgive the long post, but I have attempted to address what I feel is the greatest concern to all of you. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from this board and who knows, someday she may retire and we’ll escort each other through the rest of our lives dancing like no body’s watching.

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by ohash01

I am a female, so it is physically impossible for me to "get wood".

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

It's over rated and embarrassing in public
Spoomonkey

As I've said before, it's all about context.

Hold your towel, ma'am?



Thrax

[tribbles]

What if the 'couple' were 'friends' and he just paid her way for everything? And maybe bought her nice stuff and trips?

It doesn't mean they don't like swinging. Doesn't mean she can't veto or he can't veto someone.

S

[ohash01]

It's over rated and embarrassing in public

Well - Spoo - you should just learn to control yourself a little bit better. I suppose that's unfair of me to say, since women have padded bras to hide their harden-able parts...perhaps a paid of padded underwear for you for next christmas?

Hold your towel, ma'am?

Thrax, you can hold my towel anytime. But you'd have to promise not to peek.

[meandher2go]

we are agreeing with singleagain

and we know a few prostitutes, just dont use thier services but are friends with them and know they are the most health conscience people around cause they have to be. we would worry more about swingers more than prostitutes. swingers dont do it for a living and might take it for granted. we think most swingers dont get tested as often as a prostitute does or at least the ones we know.

but any kind of info that has not been given in a swing setting is misleading and we understand the views of others here.

but just like me not telling the wife of the couple im a hairy guy, how do you suppose a prostitute is gonna tell her story. and we think, what we dont know wont hurt us. (unless its health wise)

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by singleagain

It’s the word discrimination.

The definition of "discrimination": treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

Your points about color, body type and profession are all correct. But here is where I disagree: in a situation where one partner is being paid for her services - the service is to provide you (the client) a good evening - how can I be sure that I have the chance to judge her on her "individual merit"?

A prostitute is someone who sells fantasies. If it is within the scope of comfortable business for them, they do whatever they need to in order to help you (the client) have a good experience. So, if that means that she has to flirt with me (a person she may not otherwise be interested in) because you have expressed an interest in my wife (a person only crazy people aren't interested in ) then it is part and parcel of the package that YOU have paid for.

It has nothing to do with me and your lady friend.

So yes - I would discriminate without feeling badly about it against someone who would keep something from me that might be important to our "coupling", making it impossible to judge them on individual merit. The bottom line is, I just don't feel like I could trust her motivation. Does that make sense?

And because of that, I would be uncomfortable being put knowingly in that situation, as would - based on the responses - many people in the lifestyle. It isn't about her cleanliness or the nobility of her choice profession - it is about her reasons for wanting to be with me.

And if you think about it - haven't you, in a way, just bought yourself into my wife's pants; effectively making her a bit of a sublet prostitute herself?

Originally Posted by singleagain

And not once has anyone ever approached us and asked if either of us is an escort.

Of course not...

What an awkward way to start a conversation with a couple you are interested in.

"May I ask you if your girlfriend is bought and paid for?"

I would never think to ask such a question. Perhaps our expectations in the lifestyle are a little "utopic", but we do tend to think that couples are what they say they are. We do ask about marital status as this can raise a lot of good directional discussion that lets us know whether a couple would be our type, but the bottom line is, based on this thread, you have to admit most people would be uncomfortable with such a situation if they knew. If you, in good conscience, can put people into situations that they would not be comfortable with, that is a decision that - unfairly - only you can make.

Spoomonkey

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by singleagain

There is another word I use that usually puts a bad taste in people’s mouths. This word is the one that so many people have told me is just wrong. It’s the word discrimination. We all use it…we all apply it. If you say you do not discriminate then you need to rethink every decision you make. You see, its not possible to avoid discrimination if one makes decisions.

When people are discriminating (choosy) about who they want to have sex with, they have every right and of course, we all do - we all should be choosy based on how we feel and what matters to us. We all have our own preferences. Some preferences are based on attraction, interest, chemistry, and other preferences are based on safety and comfort level issues. This is why honesty is so highly valued in the swing community. Of course, not everyone is going to be honest, and some will use varying degrees of deception in order to get what they want. This is why many swingers are leary, cautious, and feel the need to screen people as much as possible in order to be comfortable and to feel that they are dealing with honest people.

Originally Posted by singleagain

I choose to use the services of an escort.

But perhaps we don't choose to have sex with an escort, and many of the couples you're with who don't have disclosure about her trade may not choose to have sex with an escort, either. They're having sex with an escort under false pretenses, because:

Originally Posted by singleagain

I pay her to act as if she is my exclusive partner in certain situations such as swinging.

You must agree that's not playing fair?

Originally Posted by singleagain

If I never outed her as an escort, no one would ever realize that our relationship was what it is.

Being really good at concealing the truth doesn't make it right or more acceptable to be deceiving people.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Now suppose you are a Caucasian couple and your simple add gets the attention of a couple like this: He is black, handsome, well built and works at the local city sewage treatment facility cleaning pumps.
.....
Suppose again that he stated that he was a sanitation engineer with the largest employer in the area

Personally, we as a couple wouldn't care about this (and his use of the term "sanitation engineer" isn't a lie). We don't base our sexual choices or friendship choices on this sort of thing. We know that some other couples do...and they usually have profiles that state that they are looking only for "other very professional" couples like themselves and give other clues that they're interested in social status, title and money. They have that right. The sanitation engineer couple wouldn't be for them, and they wouldn't be interested in the "professional"-couples-only couple, either.

Originally Posted by singleagain

His wife is a fantastically beautiful red head, lovely natural 36D breasts, stands 5’9” and weighs about 130. She is an independent escort who works only in cities at least 50 miles from her home. He knows what she does and, naturally, she knows what he does. They are also swingers. Here’s where I run into what I think is hypocrisy. If they never told you where they work, you might play with them based on their physical beauty alone.

It's not like she's a bank teller, school teacher, or restauranteur who isn't telling you about her career just to be discreet and careful. She and her husband are bright enough (I'm sure) to know that some people wouldn't want to play with her for possibly a variety of reasons, including the fact that she's practicing an illegal trade and people don't want to get mixed up in that on any level. (She's not working in the desert at a legal brothel; she's traveling to cities in the vicinity of her home to practice her trade, and it's illegal in those cities.) Because she's under the radar of the law, she doesn't have to get tested. She can get paid a great deal more to turn tricks bareback. We don't know WHAT she does with her johns. If she can so easily lie to us (her potential playmates) about what she does, or she conceals what she does just to gain access to us, she most certainly can and probably will lie to us about how often she's tested, whether or not the condoms fell off or tore with 200 of her clients, whether she goes bareback for extra $$$, or anything else.

If we learn we've been lied to or deceived on any level by this couple, why should we trust anything this couple would tell us? I would feel this way if I learned that you and your escort friend had been pulling the wool over our eyes about your status as a couple.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Here’s where I run into what I think is hypocrisy. If they never told you where they work, you might play with them based on their physical beauty alone.

Some people do play with couples based on physical beauty alone. I agree with you - with their looks alone, they probably get more invitations than they can handle. But, the people choosing to be with them just for their looks know they're making this choice, perhaps knowing little to nothing about these people, and that's their prerogative. This isn't hypocrisy.

Many people will talk to you to learn about you. They'll talk to you either through your profile as in the example you gave, or at the club. They want to get to know more about you, and establish a level of trust and confidence in you. Many of us will ask if you're married, or how long you've been together, or something else related to your relationship. Why? Because this is one of the things that matters to us. We want to be with "real couples". Most of us want a connection/chemistry/attraction to occur before sex, not just eyeball appeal.

Personally, we've met some very physically hot couples in person who were not connections for us (we didn't go past the first "date" with them). The only reason we said "no thanks" was that there was just no chemistry or personality connection there. I've heard other people tell of similiar experiences.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Just as I don’t tell people up front that I suffer from psoriases (a non-contagious skin condition that I have under control), I don’t tell people what I do to earn an income which is in the mid 6 figure range. Nor do I volunteer that she is a paid escort. Why? Because she doesn’t act like one when she is with me.

I understand not telling people you've just met about your non-contagious condition or about your salary. It's none of their business and of no consequence to them. But the third point is concealed because you know that people would veto sex with you if they knew. Your odds of getting sex are much higher by not telling she's your escort and by her "acting as if she is your exclusive partner" (to quote you). You said that you don't volunteer the escort fact because "she doesn't act like one". That just isn't a valid argument here. Not acting like what you are just means you're good at playing a role. It doesn't address the consequences of lying to other people about it.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Truth be told, she treats me better than some women I have met in the lifestyle treat their partners and she has expressed that I give her the freedom to swing that she can get no where else.
....
…and she is never required to do anything she doesn’t want to do anyway. She does have the right to “veto” anyone she is not comfortable with and I think because she is much better at using her “problem detection radar” I am safer with her than I am without.
....
We really do like each other and enjoy each other’s company in venues other than swinging. She loves nascar racing and the opera. We attend both together…no sex there.

I have no doubt that this arrangement is great for both of you. I can see why it works for you. What I think some of us are trying to point out is not how it affects you, or the two of you together, but how it affects your potential play partners who have the wool pulled over their eyes (and how that would make us feel). If you'd said that you are open about your situation, you gracefully accept the "rejections" of those who don't want to play with the type of couple you are, and you move on to enjoy those experiences with the people who DO want to play with you knowing the facts first, I'd be the first in line to say

Originally Posted by singleagain

In fact, there is never a time when the green-eyed monster jumps into the middle of our play pile and complains of the pleasure either of us experiences. How many of you can say that has never happened in your situation.

Aside from our first full swap experience (we weren't savvy enough to have expressed or understood all of our preferences at that point, and we got kind of run over by a Mack truck), I can say that we fully share and completely enjoy our experiences with no jealousy or "weird feelings" at all. After our first false start, we quickly worked through that and moved forward. It's been fantastic for us and if anything, has brought us much closer than we could have imagined possible.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Also, I turned down a number of others who would have accompanied me to swing clubs simply because they let me know up front that would consider it an opportunity to meet other single guys who might need their services.
....
The risk factors involved with playing with my escort are probably no greater than they would be playing with a person you met on any given night and just couldn’t leave until you and that person had experienced a mutually satisfying climax as a result of sexual play with each other. That is an exposure that neither of us would ever consider. We never play on the first date with anyone. And we are just as selective, if not more so, that most other people we know.
....
She came with high references from men and women who in the vanilla world would be considered “classy”.

The measures you took in choosing her is very conscientious behavior for yourself, your safety. I appreciate all the points you make about how carefully you chose this lady, that she has few clients, she's clean and tested often, she only plays safe (as far as you know), she's choosy, etc. - all great facts that could be shared with potential playmates.

Originally Posted by singleagain

And not once has anyone ever approached us and asked if either of us is an escort.

This is, of course, because nobody expects that either of you are escorts. Nobody would ask this of you because it wouldn't occur to them. It's not common practice in swinging, as far as most couples know. I've never heard of your situation in swinging before (which is why it intrigues me to learn more from you about it).

Originally Posted by singleagain

Just so you know, I didn’t do this as a last resort, but did it in concert with searching for a single female swinger the same way most of you do.

I understand how this arrangement can be so beneficial to you for companionship, swinging, etc.

Originally Posted by singleagain

In fact, my escort has introduced me to several ladies, alas, none of which have rung my bell…back to that old discrimination thing again.

There's nothing wrong with being discriminating, knowing what you like, and seeking chemistry. You'll know it when you meet her. Just as in any situation with dating, sexual connections, and even with our casual friendships, we know what we like and we know who "fits" - - Providing we are granted access to truthful information about this person, not deceptions, and he or she is being his/her true self with us.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Forgive me for not remembering who made the following statement: “I have to agree with Spoo and others - I believe that many couples in the Lifestyle would take offense to learning they've just had sex with a prostitute, as opposed to an actual couple like themselves. Even if the couple they've just been with is apparently "just dating" (not in a very serious relationship yet) or appears to be friends/swing partners (not for money), this is a big difference from the reality that this couple is a man and his paid escort. I know my husband and I would be very rattled by that, to say the least.”

That was me.

Originally Posted by singleagain

I completely understand how this person feels. I too, might feel that way with just any “prostitute.” Just like I would not pick up a prostitute on the corner I wouldn’t swing with any and everybody I meet in the lifestyle.

Only you would have the privilege of making this choice, though. You're in control, and you're making decisions for us if you pass off your escort as your girlfriend, and we have sex with her. We should have the right to choose to have or not have sex with an escort for ourselves. I think this is disrespectful. We treat our playmates with honesty and respect, and we want the same consideration in return. Regardless of the fact that she doesn't look or act like a typical sex-for-money worker working in an illegal and unregulated industry, she still is.

Originally Posted by singleagain

Someone on this thread said “I'm just not 100% sure how I'd feel about sex with you two if I had all of the facts.” I submit that that is a statement that most of us might make if we had all of the facts about most of our play partners.

That was me, too. What I meant of course, was if I/we had all the facts that you've shared here in this thread about your escort friend. Your situation isn't typical. This is the kind of information that selective people would naturally feel they have the right to. I'm sure you realize this. You are selective...these facts about this woman were important to you. You ruled out being with other escorts who didn't measure up to the standards you expressed here for a variety of safety reasons associated with the illegal sex-for-money trade. Don't the playmates you bring into your sexual situation deserve the same?

Originally Posted by singleagain

Forgive the long post, but I have attempted to address what I feel is the greatest concern to all of you. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from this board

I appreciate your long post, it's very educational! Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on something we wouldn't normally be privy to.

Originally Posted by singleagain

....and who knows, someday she may retire and we’ll escort each other through the rest of our lives dancing like no body’s watching.

That is very interesting in itself! If this woman weren't an escort, you could see yourself being really serious about her. Hmmmm! Keep us posted.

[singleagain]

Thank you spoomonkey ad tybeeswing for such great posts. I have to say I agree with everything you say in general terms. Specifically I want to address three things tybeeswing said in her last post.

"Being really good at concealing the truth doesn't make it right or more acceptable to be deceiving people..."

That is very true. I agree with you that lying is wrong. Deception is wrong as well. The point I was trying to make here is, however, that one never tells all he knows unless that would mean that he is either trying to deceive or if his failure to reveal would mean that others may be harmed. In that light, I hope and trust that every swinger I play with will maintain high ethical standards in regards to taking care to harm none.

"(and his use of the term "sanitation engineer" isn't a lie)"

Oh, it would be if he never went to engineering school and was simply a day laborer (as I was alluding, I thought) cleaning the machinery that moved the s..t where its supposed to go.

"If this woman weren't an escort, you could see yourself being really serious about her. Hmmmm! Keep us posted."

I like her a lot and she seems to like me. I hope its not just her "business" to convince me of that. Our conversations take on a really serious level of revelation to each other and I have visited her "off the clock" many times since I met her. So...who knows...maybe we just might have a different kind of relationship in the future.

Let me close my part of this really great discussion by saying a few things about me that may reveal something you may not have known before. I am a practicing Christian. I not only trust Christ as my personal savior, but I am active in my local church as well. I have discovered that loving God and loving others the way He tells us to do is so rewarding, not only to me but to all the people I associate with as well. There are many threads on this board that address such matters and I am not trying to change the direction of this one. But I do firmly believe that no matter what lifestyle one chooses treating others with respect is paramount. I will seriously consider all the things you guys have said and from that determine how I will move forward in the lifestyle. Thanks so much for your valued input.