What are the negative long-term effects of the Lifestyle?

[LetsParty]

Hi all!

Pretty funny how I've gone from lurker to poster lately.
Must be the fall.... I end up in front of the PC more than outside!

Anyways... Here's a serious question...

As you may have seen in some of my other posts, and as I am sure most of you would agree with, we are huge supporters of the lifestyle.

We think it's fantastic. It's logical. It's about honesty and openness. Taking the "you only live once" attitude. It evokes great conversation. I look at my life partner in a more sexual light than I would as a vanills. Etc. etc.

Now, here is my question:

So much of society is EXTREMELY anti-swinging.

My parents would DIE if they knew we did this.

Heck, even at work, it's more acceptable to tell a colleague, "I had an affair with the hottie from H.R.!" than it is to say, "My wife and I have consensual sex with others."

Sad, but true. I know.

So here's the question for those of you who are older and have more experience than we do:

Could all these vanillas actually be onto something?
Could the lifestyle be secretly harming our marriage?
Instead of us extolling from the rooftops the fun, benefit, excitement and pleasure in the Lifestyle, do you think there is reason for us to listen to vanillas?

Are we all just naive? Will Vanillas have the last laugh?

I've interviewed couples.
Read books.
Discussed this like crazy.

Aside from the usual occasional short-term problems (possible jealousy/possible drama with some couples/possible crossing some blurry lines once every few years.../etc/etc)... I dunno... This whole "sex with strangers" / "live out your fantasies" / "try some same-sex fun if that's what turns you on"...

...all in the context of a healthy and open relationship with lots of communication and honesty...

...Well, we just think it's great!

Does anyone here (Lifestyler or otherwise) think that people like my parents and adamant-vanillas may have the right idea, and we don't?

I've been meaning to ask this for a long time. I'd love to hear some opinions on the potential problems as the years progress and our bodies get old.

(And please leave God out of the equation. We gave up organized religion long ago and could not be happier. Yeah, we could be screwed in the afterlife , but let's leave the religious zealotry and the bible out of the equation for this thread.)

Thanks!

[northindycpl]

I think that everyone is entitled to do and live by what they deem fit and appropriate- for them and their situations. If you view your life through the eys and opinions of someone else, you are bound to come up things that could be harmful, or different.

Do couples that swing hurt their marriages? Sure, I bet there are some and I probably know a few.

Do couples that don't swing have great marriages? Sure, I bet there are some and I know a few and I know others that are miserable.

Because I have sex with more people am I going to hurt my body somehow? Possible, but we take all the precautions we can. I suppose you could say that because we drink we are hurting our livers or whatever, too.

I think that there is ulimately no comparision or parallel between vertical and horizontal couples. I think that you do what is right for you, at the time, given the facts and you live your life the way the cards fall.

I know a lot of happy go lucky vanillas... like my own parents. I am sure they wouldn't even remotely understand our choices and I don't understand theirs. But both of us are happily married.

Since I won't talk about religion.....

IMHO, It's like comparing a republican to a democrat!

[Freeridersnz]

Interesting question. My wife is 14 years younger and we are both married for the second time. In her first marriage her husband, after 18 months, indicated he wanted to swing. He even lined up the participants. Trouble is he went about it the wrong way (selfishly demanding) and as a result she didn’t feel comfortable enough to participate. In the end he ignored her feelings, couldn’t resist the temptation and played with another couple MFM. He also experienced a FMF without her. In his view his actions were causing no harm and were “natural”. The truth was it broke her heart and the marriage. She subsequently spent many years drifting in and out of relationships without finding trust or a sole mate, until we met.

By contrast, we have a great marriage full of love, trust and mutual respect and have been together 7 years. I would like for us both to experience the lifestyle together but my wife is concerned that once we start, history will repeat itself and her fear is that I (like all males – “cant be trusted”) will run off and have sessions with others behind her back. No amount of convincing will change her attitude to males and, it appears, I am no exception. I am therefore resigned to a life without the lifestyle and remain monogamous.

So to come back to your question. From where I sit I think the biggest long term risk to swingers is the potential for one partner to be emotionally hurt by the actions of the other. That hurt could manifest itself in many forms and what appears harmless to one could be viewed as a disaster by the other, potentially with long term emotional consequences. Once that occurs it is often too far to come back from as in our case.

However, given that both partners begin and remain totally honest, trustworthy and considerate of each others emotional (not just physical) needs then I cant see why there should be any long term detrimental affect of swinging on a healthy marriage. Just don’t cross the line of trust.

[JustAskJulie]

I don't think either side is right or wrong. Everyone has to choose what is best for them. I'm not about to go on a crusade to conince non-swingers that they should swing, I'm more likely to tell them they shouldn't (unless they are absolutely sure that they have a strong relationshp built on communication an trust). Most of the negatives I've encountered when it comes to swinging comes from the overall lack of acceptance of swinging in society. The negatives typically come from having to hide such a large part of your life and having to live a lie. Therefore when people do find out you are often shunned, lose friends, family, jobs, etc. Those are HUGE longterm negative effects that everyone should consider.

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Hi all!

Now, here is my question:
So much of society is EXTREMELY anti-swinging

To me in all honesty, I think society in general is not anti-swinging, they are pro-hypocrites. Seriously. Society is not about the truth, but about appearances. Of course, I am NOT generalizing every human being that is vanilla, so please don't get me wrong. I only ever talk about my own personal opinion and experiences. Anyways, I think that society is screwed up in alot of views, namely this one. They would rather you screw your secretary and keep it secret than be honest. Why? I haven't been able to figure that one out yet.


.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

My parents would DIE if they knew we did this.

I'll be honest. My parents don't know. But not because I am ashamed, but because it truly is no ones business but mine and Jay's. I am extremely private person. My parents are ex-hippies straight from Haight Ashbury lol, I don't think they would freak out though.

.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Heck, even at work, it's more acceptable to tell a colleague, "I had an affair with the hottie from H.R.!" than it is to say, "My wife and I have consensual sex with others.".[

Hence, hypocritical views of society. A man is seen as a STUD if he is banging his neighbor. But if he says he enjoys having his wife make love to another man he is seen as a sicko. Go figure.

.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Could all these vanillas actually be onto something?.[

I think there are some couples who are able to be completely monogomous to each other. My cousin is one. She is the quinticential soccer mom. She loves the shit! Play dates, soccer games, baking cookies, arts and crafts, all that stuff. And I think its great for her if that makes her happy. Me? I'm TOTALLY the opposite! I want to ride on the back of a harley to sturgis. I want to go in one direction just to see whats there! I want to get a tattoo on my ass, and if I had enough guts do what Mrs. Van did and get a piercing lol. I'm not a soccer mom. So, I think for some couples yes, it does work. But for others, I think it is great that we are honest! I absolutely adore Jay. There is no man that could ever fill his shoes. Why? Because of the bond we have with each other. Sex is sex, but no sex can replace 15 years of life. So, to each his own is what I say.

But I will say this: Most married couples think about swinging, but never take the step. ALOT more married women than you would think. Trust me on this. Much more.

[LetsParty]

Good answer.

Thanks for answering it in depth.

I'll say one thing... These happy-soccer-moms...

Lemme tell you... PLENTY of them have their own private/secret "yahoo" or "hotmail" e-mail account, and a large portion of them are out scewing their trainers / aerobics instructors / etc.

That's the irony of it all.

That's why we are so, "Bring out the desire and fun into the open!"

My wife is convinced this is the wave of the future. "We are onto something here!" "Monogamy is so 20th century" etc. etc.

With the advent of the Internet, women in the workforce, the social acceptance of bisexuality and homosexuality, legal decisions permitting swining clubs, hidden camera reports, the crazy stuff we see on TV nowadays...

...I think this nottion of "sexual monogamy until death" is proving to be more and more of a bit of a joke.

And Shelly -- I'll one-up you... Call me crazy, but if I were looking to "lure" a woman into a secret affair... I'd bet I'd have a WAY easier time doing so on a soccer field with the Chrysler mini-vans in the parking lot, than outside a tat parlor with a row of Harleys outside.


Thoughts?

[TNT]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

And Shelly -- I'll one-up you... Call me crazy, but if I were looking to "lure" a woman into a secret affair... I'd bet I'd have a WAY easier time doing so on a soccer field with the Chrysler mini-vans in the parking lot, than outside a tat parlor with a row of Harleys outside.


Thoughts?

You're probably right...with Ted in the process of having a major tattoo done we've been spending a lot of time at the tattoo parlor...the artist who is doing his tattoo has known for years we are swingers, no shock from him just a "cool"....now if it was announced at the school functions that I go to that we were swingers it would be total


As to the original question...

The biggest negative for us is having to keep things on the quiet side due to the way we would be viewed by the community we live in.


Teresa

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

And Shelly -- I'll one-up you... Call me crazy, but if I were looking to "lure" a woman into a secret affair... I'd bet I'd have a WAY easier time doing so on a soccer field with the Chrysler mini-vans in the parking lot, than outside a tat parlor with a row of Harleys outside.


Thoughts?

I don't know, but how the hell did you know I drive a Chrysler mini-van?
LOL, seriously I drive a Town and Country!

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

I'll say one thing... These happy-soccer-moms...

Lemme tell you... PLENTY of them have their own private/secret "yahoo" or "hotmail" e-mail account, and a large portion of them are out scewing their trainers / aerobics instructors / etc.

SO TRUE! Same goes for husbands, let me tell you. A good friend of mine had an affair with a married man (upstanding member of society) for 14 months before it all got blown out of the water. And his poor wife? She knew about it. She was so worried about the appearances of it all, she still to this day acts like she didn't know what was going on. I mean, now that is sick.

[louie_st]

I come to think the effects are pretty radical. Its like stealing to me first you start out small then get bigger and bigger then you can't remember why you started as you are sitting in Jail. You start out playing then more and more and before you know it you are boinking everyone that says hi. Not saying anything bad but look at some of the older couples that have been swinging for a while they will boink anything. In some other threads they talked about intimacy. Intimacy breaks down after a while of being in the lifestyle. Once you seen your spouce boinked in every postion by countless people that came and gone what is left? Like in the news about those amish people. Amish been around since the start of america and they are still going strong in there belifs. look at soceity today with our new words for breaking our vows to get what we want(Swinging, Lifestyle, Swapping, etc..). Since we claim to be happy in our own marraiges and would not trade our spouces for anything. What the hell do you think you are doing? You are trading in your loved one for a one night stand and then act like nothing happened. I think the long time effect really really hurts the marraige emotionally. A scar that you can hide but never will go away.

[atlas]

..soo what you're implying in your post, is that the older couples are lying or fail to see thier lack of intamacy?
I'm putting on my flame retardant suit for that last post.

[LetsParty]

LOL!

Okay, that previous post (2 back) was a bit radical in its thinking, but a valuable contribution nonetheless..

I guess it's like marijuana being a gateway drunk. One minute you're smoking some pot, watching Pink Floyd's The Wall, and a few years later, you're doing crack cocaine.

Got it.

Steal a candybar from the local Exxon, and next thing you know, you're robbing banks.

There is another flaw in that logic. I WOULDN'T trade my spouse for anything. This is sex and only sex. The connection between "sex" and "love", especially for men, is something of a fiction, created by society en masse.

If you don't believe me, well, please check out of the gazillion dollar online porn, DVD porn, escort, hooker, bordello, dirty magazine, and strip club industries. The desire for wild and crazy new sex has nothing to so with our thoughts of a 'loved one', per se.

Are we really 'trading in our loved one' for a one-night stand? It sounds like a bit of a leap.

However, some valid points are raised.

Now, what about the alternatives?

What about people who decide not to swing? Is that a better option, do you think? I can't help but think of all the bored and miserable couples that I see walking around the mall. The jokes in the locker room. The stories about travelling to the Orient and getting 'massages'. The separations and divorces. The cheating and lying.

I'm not trying to compare the effects of swinging vs. Amish people.

I am just trying to look at The Lifestyle as compared to a "vanilla" marriage.

....I still wonder....

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by atlas

..soo what you're implying in your post, is that the older couples are lying or fail to see thier lack of intamacy?
I'm putting on my flame retardant suit for that last post.

Here, you can use mine if you want.

[ShellyM]

In response to LetsParty's last post.
I think that you all have very valid points. I think that self control is required in your swinging life, JUST LIKE it is in your everyday life! I mean, in a vanilla relationship self control is required. With me, I don't worry about boinking everyone, as it has been referred to lol. I am TOO picky for my own good I think, and so the thought of screwing half of Hays County just is not appealing to me. Like I said in the other post, I do have to have a feeling of attraction for the person, I just cannot lay down with anyone. Thats just not in my personality. I can see how it can get out of control though, and go from a swinging marriage to an open marriage. But again, communication is the key.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by louie_st

I think the long time effect really really hurts the marraige emotionally.

And you base this on what?

Spoomonkey