Why do we view unhappy couples so negatively?

[danc694u]

As a whole, we all agree that couples should be in complete agreement when deciding to swing. We as a couple support this 100%.

Now, I would like to pose a question

Why do we (us included) take such a negative view of unhappy people? By this, I mean why do we slam or attack people who complain that they are unhappy with their current relationship. And want to "fire" it up with a dip into the swinging pool. Most of the posters are male, I realize this.

I understand the need for honesty in a relationship. But, are we not telling these people; So what, your miserable. Now go live the lie you started.

Honesty In my opinion, starts with one's self.

Part of honesty includes being able to walk away from a dying or dead relationship. Is there an unwritten law that says, we as couples are doomed to remain that way, even if it is in the best interest of both parties to go their seperate ways? Even if they have kids?

I've never seen a responce to this type of question that was "nice". By that I mean, the party responding states that the person possing the question has 2 choices. Live with it, or move on.

The fact that someone loves another, is not enough to hold a rocky relationship together. Love does not conquer all. Try that line on a judge in a divorce case

Okay I'm done. Have I confused everyone? Or have I failed in getting my question across? What's your take on it?

[Flori_DAMAN]

Cheating on a spouse is very common in our society. I think swingers for the most part are honest people and do not welcome cheaters into the community. I for one would not want to partake in sex with a guy or gal that has a spouse at home totally igonorant of the activity. I think its wrong and that if you have such marital problems you should divorce first then play. If thats what you meant.

[PA_RACERS]

I'm not sure if understood you correctly. I don't undersatnd how a person could "fire up" their relationship without the other persons particiapation. It can be a dangerous thing to play with a person in that situation. The unknowing spouse or loved one could be a total psycho.

Marsha

[Jessie B]

I don't believe that any of us would recommend swinging to a couple with serious marital problems. I for one run for the hills when scenting animosity.
Just as ice cream has no powers to rejuvenate rotten meat and moldy potatoes, so is swinging no cure for a busted or even a shaky relationship.
Both are, however, delicious deserts to round out firm and wholesome meals or marriages.

[danc694u]

I think I missed my own point LOL.

Actually, I was refering to our simple "Get a life" or "Get lost" statements we say to people who ask how to get their spouses involved.

Or to individuals who complain that they are unhappy with their spouses lack of participation in the lifestyle.

Should we insist that people stay in a bad relationship, because their spouse refuses?

[JustAskJulie]

My response.. no we shouldn't. I have many times given people the exact advice you mentioned. "deal with what you have" or "move on".

If there is no way to be happy with your current relationship then you shouldn't be trapped in it.

As for people trying to push their spouse into swinging.. they shouldn't EVER. If your partner doesn't want to then that's something you have to deal with. If swinging is so important to you that you are willing to put it over your relationship then you shouldn't be in that relationship anymore. (actually that exact advice was just recently given on the board to a female asking about how to get her guy more involved in swinging).

Maybe I still missed what your question actually was... but I can think of many times when I (and others on here) have given the advice that if you aren't getting what you think you need out of a relationship then perhaps you need to move on.

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[LIZA]

I agree with Julie, if I am reading your question right.
If you are married to a partner who will not get involved in outside swinging activity's, you have three choices
ACCEPT IT AND WORK ON OTHER WAYS TO MAKE YOUR MARRIAGE GOOD

DECIDE SWINGING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR MARRIAGE AND LEAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, PURSUING SWINGING AS A SINGLE (NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU ARE A MALE)

TRY AND DO IT ON THE SIDE, THEREBY EVOLVING FROM WOULD BE SWINGER TO WOULD BE CHEATER (AGAIN NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE IF A MAN)

What I don't think you should do is: harass your partner to try it if they have clearly said no, come here and ask TOTAL STRANGERS how you can talk to your OWN WIFE (We don't know your wife and have no fucking idea!) and three if you plan to stay married and NOT swing I think you should stay away from all swinging related web sites...........Kinda like a diabetic staring at candy all day!

[This message has been edited by LIZA (edited 10-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LIZA (edited 10-09-2001).]

[danc694u]

Originally posted by LIZA:
If you are married to a partner who will not get involved in outside swinging activity's, you have three choices
ACCEPT IT AND WORK ON OTHER WAYS TO MAKE YOUR MARRIAGE GOOD DECIDE SWINGING IS MORE IMPORTNAT THAN YOUR MARRIAGE AND LEAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, PURSUING SWINGING AS A SINGE (NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU ARE A MALE)

...editted...

This part of your post would be the response that do the most good. In my honest opinion.

The rest would only serve to belittle the party in question. Or possibly infuriate.

Now, my question was. Why do we as a community, take the remaining part of your post for a response, most of the time?

Instead of the quote above?

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by danc694u:


Why do we (us included) take such a negative view of unhappy people? By this, I mean why do we slam or attack people who complain that they are unhappy with their current relationship.

Okay, imagine this -- you're ready to get intimate with another couple, unaware (or perhaps you ARE aware) they've got some real issues in their marriage. Perhaps one of them feels neglected and unloved. Perhaps there've been problems in their bedroom.

Now imagine that person whose carrying around these negative feelings watching their spouse banging away at someone else. Maybe showing a level of passion the neglected spouse hasn't seen in years. Maybe watching him/her performing a specific sex act on that person (oral perhaps?) that they haven't been on the receiving end in longer than they can remember.

Now imagine all those pent-up hurts, frustrations and jealousies suddenly multiplied tenfold, 'cause that's what's going to happen, right in front of you and your own mate. Trust me, this is a lifestyle for stable, happy people only. And I don't know of anyone who wants a front row seat for someone else's problems.

Dan

[JustAskJulie]

Originally posted by danc694u:

Now, my question was. Why do we as a community, take the remaining part of your post for a response, most of the time?

Instead of the quote above?

Probably because we get this question so often. The question (how do I get my partner involved?) is in the FAQ's are of this site, as well as covered in various articles in that area... not to mention it's been asked how many times on this board (that can be easily found)... so when yet another person comes in and asks that question AGAIN!! the first thought that comes to your mind is... well they've most likely read what's already been posted (the right answers), so if they aren't going to listen to that... then they get the "not so good" answer. Cuz it's the only thing left to give them.

-I don't expect everyone who posts here to read every message on the board..but if they haven't at least read the FAQ's and articles on the site then they skipped an important step... and if they have read and are still asking the same questions it's because the answers that are given there aren't what they were looking for.. so the only thing to do is to "possibly infuriate them". If nothing else hopefully it will make them think and look inward and figure out why they are being responded to in such a way.

Just a thought.

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[danc694u]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple:
...<snipped>... Trust me, this is a lifestyle for stable, happy people only. And I don't know of anyone who wants a front row seat for someone else's problems.

Dan

Hmm, somehow I think we have wondered into the twilight zone. Is anyone actually understanding the question here?

It is not How can? It is, Why do?

To simply blow someone off, because their spouse refuses them, doesn't address their question. They are seeking information. Which they generally can't find in the "swinging" community. As a whole, we rant and rave about being honest. But, rarely give them honest information to deal with the issue. Which brings us back to LIZA. She made very valid points. And, they are what most of the confused people are looking for. Maybe not in as many words.

Maybe we need a link to marriage counseling website for these folks LOL.

And I agree, we certianlly don't want a front seat to someone else's problems. Although it has happened a few times at socials we attend. Hard to avoid it, when someones spouse dupes them into coming to a social, without explaining what it is about, before they get there. Now that really chaps our butts!

[LIZA]

Although I think my ENTIRE post was pretty much right-on, These segments I think are the most helpful to the (usually) men doing the asking......because this is where they are headed

TRY AND DO IT ON THE SIDE, THEREBY EVOLVING FROM WOULD BE SWINGER TO WOULD BE CHEATER (AGAIN NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE IF A MAN)


What I don't think you should do is: harass your partner to try it if they have clearly said no, (self explanatory) come here and ask TOTAL STRANGERS how you can talk to your OWN WIFE (We don't know your wife...if she is religous, shy, feels uncomfortable with her body, does not like sex, does not like sex with YOU or perhaps DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX OUTSIDE HER MARRIAGE. The husband in question is married to this woman and HE knows her better than total strangers. If anything, they should be seeking counseling. We are not counselors here!)...and three if you plan to stay married and NOT swing I think you should stay away from all swinging ralated web sites...........Kinda like a diabetic staring at candy all day! (absolutely.........why read about and talk to people all night about something YOU cannot have or do??........That to me seems very unhealthy. Men (and women) need to remember they are not entitled to swing, just because a small percentage of other couples do. If having a wife willing to swing is more important than having the wife you married, find a good divorce lawyer (you'll need him!)


[This message has been edited by LIZA (edited 10-08-2001).]

[danc694u]

Julie.. Point taken
But wouldn't responding with "Read the FAQ", then locking the topic work also

Very good Liza

We don't hide our lifestyle from our friends. Neither do we discuss it with them unless they ask. And, while we (me & my fiance) may not be marriage councellors. Many people ask us about these things. We generally tell them the same thing. Go home, talk to your spouse about it more. Then decide what you want your life to be like. Because, it will change regardless of the choice you make. If your spouse agrees, that's one change. If not, there are a tidal wave of changes about to happen. Depending on where the relationship is at, at that moment.

BTW, we get about an equal number of women asking, as men. And have introduced more single women, than men to the lifestyle. This could be related to our line of work.

I think, (and this is my opinion only) that men are more likely to look for information, without consulting their spouses, before bringing the topic up. It's called getting your ducks in a row.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by danc694u:
Hmm, somehow I think we have wondered into the twilight zone. Is anyone actually understanding the question here?

Umm, twilight zone? Sorry if I misunderstood the original question/point.


This may not address what you originally intended to get across, but the bottom line of what I was saying is, swinging can only exacerbate existing major problems within a relationship. One couple we met with, in a one on one setting, spent the entire time bickering with each other, while carrying on a conversation with us. Even their so-called 'humor' with each other had a biting, nasty edge. My wife and I made our excuses after an hour or so of listening to their mutual pleasantries, and left.

This couple was very anxious to get together wity us sexually, and they're one of a handful we've turned down. We could only surmise the tension between them would only be worse in the bedroom.

Dan

[JustAskJulie]

Originally posted by danc694u:
Julie.. Point taken
But wouldn't responding with "Read the FAQ", then locking the topic work also
.... And have introduced more single women, than men to the lifestyle. This could be related to our line of work.

yes it would, but I hate to close any topic to discussion. To me saying "read the faq" is the same thing as saying "why haven't you read all the other messages on this message board before asking your question?". I realize that I stated that I feel that someone should at least read the faq before posting a question.. but I also know that isn't going to happen.

Also, like Liza I feel that they should get the whole answer.. not just the first part. Yes those basic answers may be the most helpful.. but I think that they also need to be told that they shouldn't push their partner, that swinging without their partners knowledge makes them a cheater and unacceptable to the swinging lifestyle. All of that is also the truth just as much as the basic answer of "accept it and work on other ways to make your marriage good" or "leave your spouse".

We even had a post on here a while back where a guy was asking if it was ok for him to go on vacation without his wife and pretend to be single to hook up with swingers. Evidently the thought had not even crossed his mind that that might not be a good idea. I think sometimes you have to (metaphorically) slap a guy upside his head to get the blood out of his dick so he can think with his brain (Sometimes!).

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

- btw, you got me curious.. what is your line of work?