Where does your head go?

[TeamSoBe]

What happens in your head when an all-out orgy breaks out all around you?

My wife and I have a lot of fun but I'm much less experienced with sex itself than she is, and lately it has become clear that it doesn't take much for me to get overwhelmed when things go too quickly. It especially throws me off if we're with new people and a new guy fucks my wife very quickly as soon as things get started. I see it happening and I suddenly feel extremely pressured and threatened and I lose interest in sex. I don't lose my ability to get an erection but I end up limp and sidelined because I just shut down and I'm barely interested. I just get overwhelmed and scared. If we're just with one other person or if we're with a couple who I feel comfortable with then no worries, but this almost always happens with new people who we don't know well yet. It bugs the crap out of me because our normal pattern lately is that the new guy will tag my wife but I won't feel comfortable enough to jump his girl until the second or third time. Sometimes there isn't a second or third time and I just end up denied, and I'm sure that the women involved aren't thrilled with me. In the long term I'm a big success and women love me but I just have a lot of trouble meeting new people. My wife is a natural slut but I'm just not.

I decided after thinking about it that my problem is just that I don't have a place where my head can go when things start to get hot. If you have ever seen one of the dogs on the Dog Whisperer show who don't have a pack leader and who spin aimlessly out of control, that's me. I'm very in tune with my wife at all times and I look to her for permission to do this or that or flirt with this girl or not or whatever, and when she gets another cock in her and I lose my connection with her for that few minutes, I spin out of control. I feel apprehensive the whole time and I feel like it's not 'okay' for me to go off on my own. I can tell myself that it obviously is 'okay' and everybody else is having a great time, but I don't know how to put myself at ease. I just don't have a paradigm for how to process what's going on when a bunch of people suddenly get sexual all around me.

At one point this weekend I was having this problem at a party with three other couples where we only knew one couple and the other three couples all knew each other already. The two new guys made a line in front of my wife and one of them had a condom on and was fucking her within five minutes of the first nakedness breaking out. I don't mind and I'm glad that she can make new friends so easily but it really threw me off of my game. After that I was just not that interested in what was going on, even though there were two new women trying to make it clear that they wanted me. I got with the girl who I already knew pretty well and started trying to have some fun with her and I was just blocked mentally. Very preoccupied with where my wife was and what was happening to her, and feeling like I was being ineffective with the girls and like I was doing something wrong. Just very self conscious. A beautiful girl was going down on me and I was just running at half-staff and barely processing what was happening because it was so overwhelming that I was blocking it out as it was happening. Like you do for emotional trauma as it's happening, your brain just denies accepting it, 'this isn't happening, this isn't happening, this can't be happening...'

At one point I remembered something that my wife had said a few minutes earlier to encourage me, "You know, these women WANT to be submissive to you, just grab one and do what you want with her." I kept that in my mind and imagined my friend as a porn starlet going down on me. She's hot enough, it wasn't a stretch. I immediately got past that block and instantly got rock hard, and as long as I kept thinking of her like a piece of food that I wanted to consume for my own pleasure, everything worked out just fine. But I still had a lot of trouble keeping my head in the right spot because of all of the distractions. Any little distraction brought me out of it and I never did get up the courage to jump on the two female strangers that night even though I'm totally confident that I'm hot enough that it would have been a treat for them. I don't have a place to go in my head that works with new girls because it feels disrespectful to treat a total stranger like food.

Does anybody else have to be consciously aware of allowing themselves to relax and enjoy what's going on? If so, what do you think about? Are you a porn stud drilling a porn starlet? Is she a call girl? You're a gigolo? Are these mental places too role-playey to be practical?

I think that maybe it's kind of like going to sleep. Some people don't think about it at all and they just crash out but some people have to concentrate on counting sheep or they have to meditate on keeping a clear head or whatever. I know that I need some kind of mental fantasy mantra like counting sheep to give myself permission to relax and enjoy the swinging when it happens, but I'm not sure what works.

My wife and I communicate well and she supports me, the people who we play with respect me and want me to have fun, I have no regrets after anything that happens, we have enough experience to know what we want, none of those classic things are wrong here. It's just that now that I know how to set up fantasy situations, I don't know how to give myself permission to enjoy them. Any help from anybody who can empathize is greatly appreciated.

[LOL_OMG]

Wow great post! We have friends who don't like to do the full swap/same room thing for the very same reason (on her part). She said she was always watching her hubby and couldn't get into the moment. They started doing seperate rooms and it worked out for them.

I would guess that some people love to see their partners and some people don't. I loved your analogy of the dog whisperer. I initially thought of some kind of meditation or fantasy role play, which you then said works. Maybe in those instances instead of thinking "oooohhhhmmm" think "baw chicka baw baw". Play that funky porn music

Mrs LOL

[Additude]

You teach your mind how to think. That's the "Real" reason for seeing a therapist. Condition your mind. Find solutions that work for you to accomplish your goal.

You said by thinking of your partner as a porn star it helped you overcome your issue, thats a good start then. But you'll need to practice it repeatedly to teach your mind.

To me it seems the root of your concern is that your to involved in what your wife is doing and what is happening to her. I think by shifting your thought patterns to "The Porn Star" your mind becomes pre-occupied with that and shifts focus away from your wife.

I think that's the key. Do things that occupy your space and ignore what your wife is doing. Turn your back. Do not look in her direction. Find a seperate room, a seperate corner, think about other things, etc.

It's not an ignore switch you can turn off and on, but you can practice and condition your mind.

[TeamSoBe]

Right exactly, training my mind. I can see that if I just had a place for my head to go at these moments then I would be fine and I could have a lot of fun. I'm totally open-minded about learning new things I just don't quite know what to do with my mind yet.

Is it safe to say that most people are actually NOT thinking about much during orgies? I had always kind of assumed that the people around me were zoned out in pleasure rather than holding some kinky fantasy in their heads. When I watch porn alone I zone out in pleasure and barely think about much, or I fixate on some female body part or something. But when the porn is really happening around me in real life my brain just locks up, like 'WTF is happening?'

We have dabbled a little in the separate rooms thing and it does help me a little. Once I think. Having my playmate all alone in a one-on-one setting was more familiar to me and I had a great time. I would really rather be with my wife though, at least near her. That's why I'm trying learn to handle the situations that overload me.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

It especially throws me off if we're with new people and a new guy fucks my wife very quickly as soon as things get started. I see it happening and I suddenly feel extremely pressured and threatened and I lose interest in sex.

I wonder if the key for this is here in this statement? Have you thought about exactly what aspect of it makes you feel extremely pressured? and threatened? Maybe by figuring out these issues, you'll get a grasp on the whole picture better.

Also, have you and your wife discussed slowing things down? Maybe you are simply a man at a different pace and don't like the rushing into it. My husband and I are both like this. We like the sensual side of sex, we like building up, we like foreplay. For us, the whole experience is just better this way. We like to be with people we feel relaxed with. Maybe this is more your taste, too?? If so, there's nothing wrong with you, and you don't have a problem, you just have preferences that aren't the rushing-into-orgy style.

[TeamSoBe]

Yes, correct, I strongly prefer a slower start. I don't mind fucking on the first date but I almost never do. My wife, no problem she's very friendly, bring it on. I like lots of slow and relaxed foreplay and dim lights, but some of our friends like to just walk into the apartment and go at it immediately under the florescents and everything. Once I feel comfortable and familiar with a woman I have a great time. It just takes a long time for me to get my head into the right place and for my dick to follow. Decades of societal (Catholic) training and years of being surrounded by soft-swap couples with women who don't appreciate me touching them have left me unable to just assume that it's okay to touch. So when we meet a new couple and the guy does assume that it's okay to touch, well that's true it is but he ends up getting laid and I don't.

I'm asking how to change me instead of how to change the situation because we aren't newbies. We've slowed enough people down and frustrated enough people that it's time for me to learn to suck it up and experience things in a different way. We're meeting more friends who have fewer hangups and having a great time. At this point it's my responsiblity to learn to play with the big boys. I just have the hardest time visualizing how that's supposed to work for me.

Also, I just posted about this in the newbies section, but the idea that the norm is for swinging to proceed at the pace of the slowest person is purely mythological. It just doesn't happen that way. ESPECIALLY if the slowest person is male. All of the "We like to start slowly and ease into it" conversations in the world, even with the most respectful and compassionate of people, won't prevent that moment from coming along too soon where the other guy has one hand on the condom that he's putting on and the other hand on your wife's hip. Swinging isn't a conversation, it isn't like planning lunch. People don't stop what they're doing every five minutes to chat and make sure that what they're doing is okay with everybody. That's just unrealistic. At least part of my problem originally stems from reading too many Internet forum posts on the subject and getting unrealistic expectations in my head about how much I can expect people to defer to me being the slowest person in the room.

What actually happens is that your wife is the new girl who the other guy has never had before, and he will want to get his erection into her within five minutes of seeing her naked even if he's trying to remember in the back of his head to slow down. That's just the reality of how it works. I don't want to become the guy who can effectively communicate with that guy that he needs to slow down, I want to become the guy who just doesn't care because he's also tagging some strange.

Still just not sure where my mind should be. I get that "HOLY CRAP THAT GUY IS PUTTING A CONDOM ON AND HE'S ABOUT TO FUCK MY WIFE WITH THAT HUGE COCK!!!!" is not the smoothest thing that I can be thinking about but I just don't have an alternative mental state to go to.

[jennandjamesinm]

TeamSoBe -

I think when people talk about going only as fast as the slowest person, they are talking about the TWO people in the couple, in this case you and your wife. You need to have a talk with your wife about your issue, she is the one that needs to slow down to your pace. This seems like something that needs to be taken care of between the two of you, before you get into any swing situations.

Jenn

[b&J69]

Hello, I can so very much relate. I am the male half of our little duo and I am just like you. I am pretty shy and reserved and my lovely wife is anything but. So, it winds up that she's into all kinds of fun and I am trying to get warmed up.
A lot of it for me is I like to really know that my play partner is comfortable with me and likes me. I can't get it through my thick head that if they are even playing with me a little, flirting etc, they are interested. That is my dilemma. It is taking time and practice. I also have had the same thoughts, wow, look my wife it getting or about to get the senses fucked out of her. I want her to have a good time, thats not the issue. I am just why am I not moving faster and then I start wondering if my partner is really into me and start the whole head thing.
All I can say is it takes practice to get it in your head that you are liked and your play partners WANT to play with you. We to are from So. Fla and understand where you are coming from with the SoBe girl/girl crowd, even looking at one of them the wrong way can upset them. And now you are in a totally differet dynamic and need to adjust your head to it. All I can say is practice being more aggressive and going with the flow. We are on SDC and VL and would love to chat and discuss. I'd take any hints that anyone offers. It is nice in a way to know someome close to home is similar. It seems all we meet are couples where the guy is totaly comfortable with whatever in 5 minutes time and the female half is more reserved and when you combine 2 shy people things take time. Keep at it, it gets better. you have to unlearn what you learned hanging with the SoBe girl/girl crowd.
Mr B&J

[TeamSoBe]

B&J, I like your idea of attenuating your perception of positive signals. Lowering the flirtation bar. There are times and places where if a girl smiles at me, that means a whole lot more than "good afternoon", it means "I came here looking for a warm meat injection and you'll do just fine".

There was a moment that I can remember clearly from the weekend, where one of the new girls was hanging out next to me. She would play with the pile of people that was in front of us (I think I was fucking my wife at the time) and just kind of hang out there next to me. I would look at her and she would just smile at me.

Uhm, okay, HELLO ASSHOLE SHE WANTS YOU TO BONE HER. Maybe the mantra that I'll repeat in my head will be "This girl is easy and she expects me to be too." Silly for me to expect elaborate signals when everything is so overt already. Hm. Thanks.

[NandTfromCA]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

What happens in your head when an all-out orgy breaks out all around you?

I think- "Shit, I am a rock star!!!"

I would have answered more seriously (although that's not untrue) but everyone has already given such good advice.

[Mr. Truelove]

You mention you are submissive with your wive, perhaps you could try taking control a few times. Perhaps you have some sort of need to be the one pleasing your wife instead of her pleasing you? If you role play a little (which could be fun for the both of you anyway) perhaps that could help you make that same leap when you are in a group setting.

That make any sense?

[Additude]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

Still just not sure where my mind should be. I get that "HOLY CRAP THAT GUY IS PUTTING A CONDOM ON AND HE'S ABOUT TO FUCK MY WIFE WITH THAT HUGE COCK!!!!" is not the smoothest thing that I can be thinking about but I just don't have an alternative mental state to go to.

Now for me this would give me an instant hard on and I'd love to watch this happen. This is a major turn on for me.

It's not a turn on for you. Why does your mind think, "Holy Crap that guy is about to fuck my wife...." as a negative? Why does it bother you so? This sounds like the emotions of a first time swinger newbie experience, not someone who has attended several parties.

You say when you see this it shuts you down. Maybe you don't want to be in the swing lifestyle and you are a team player for your wife who does?

Is there some negative feeling you have about your wife having sex with a different male? Do you feel Rejected? Ignored? Upset? Mad? Not Loved? Jealous? Afraid? Are you concerned she will like another more than you? Are you concerned you will loose her?

Have you tried you and another male fucking your wife at the same time MMF?If so how did that work out for you?

I just think you are way to involved with what your wife is doing. Like I said before, create your own space and stay out of your wifes space. Seperate your thoughts from what your wife is doing. Don't even look over there where she is. Focus on the body of the woman you are with. Admire her breasts and nipples, her eyes, imagine how it would feel to have her suck your cock. Explore her body with your hands, feel the wetness of her pussy. Imagine the taste of her, that she wants you and she wants to feel you inside of her.

Heck, thinking those things is enough to zone me out and get me focused as you say you can when you are watching porn.

Am I at liberty to say that you have had discussions with your wife and she has basically told you in more words or less that it's your problem and you'll need to work it out because she doesn't plan on stopping swinging because of it?

It could be like others have said in that it has something to do with your just a slow starter. However unusual for a guy, that is also something that is a part of the mix. I don't think that in itself is conditional.

[lovedoctor]

Sounds to me like, as good as your communication is, your wife is just not "getting" you. Go back to the basics and communicate. Also, you should probably stick with 1 couple at a time rather than the orgy thing - LOL, I know how South Beach is, but resist the temptation to get farther in the water than you are ready for. Swim close to shore for awhile. The more confidence you get under your belt, the better off you will be. Give it time...

[TeamSoBe]

I don't feel negative about a guy jumping her. I feel negative about not being able to keep up. We've been together for seven years now and the first time that I saw her with another guy was seven years ago, and regularly ever since. We've done all kinds of MMF and MFMF, some FFM, quite a bit of MFMFMF, some MFMFMFMF, and even some MFMFMFMFMFMMFFFMMMFFFMMFMF. We have waded into the water over seven years, it can't get any slower. We're ready I swear.

My wife is my personal porn star and I absolutely LOVE watching her fuck. So much so that I don't have much interest in new girls while it's happening. When you pick up a little puppy by the scruff of their neck they go slack and they zone out. I'm like that when somebody is fucking my wife. I just want to see the look on her face and kiss her and feel her getting thrusted into. So hot. If that weren't going on then I would be very interested in finding a role for myself at these parties, but I have about a five minute window where nobody is fucking her at the beginning of the party. She's a hot little thing and guys at parties just want to bone her. I had this great theory for a while that I would just hang with her and watch her to get turned on and then it would be my turn. But I guess she's just too hot for guys to leave alone at any point so it's just never my turn. Even if she takes a break to encourage me and watch me with somebody, that will last for about two minutes before I look up and somebody is pushing another condom into her, which is INSANELY distracting to me. So the idea of taking turns ended up leading to me just being left waaaaaaaaay behind while I sat there waiting for 'my turn'. I need to learn to give myself permission to go off and take my turn while she's still sprawled out.

The only negative thing that I was thinking this weekend when the two new guys ganged up on her was that I just can't keep up with her. That feels shitty. Very shitty. But that's all, I was having a great time other than that. We spent all night not-too-drunk, communicating well, and she kept breaking away from what she was doing to check on me. I felt like she was supporting me better than she ever had but yet still the same pattern. What's she going to do, tell people 'No'? We do want to be there and be involved so that's not an option. If anything I'm at fault for feeling shitty because I didn't stop her, but that goes back to what I was saying about it coming down to me deciding that I'm going to learn to get into it rather than always trying to stop things that are already started. Why go to all of the trouble to set something up if I'm going to just stop it?

Saturday night a million things were 'off' for me. Four people I'd never met and could barely talk to. Two new women who sorry to be honest but my wife is much more attractive and I had to compel myself to take an interest. Apartment was FREEZING COLD the whole time and we had eight people in an apartment with one queen-sized bed, hardwood floors and no other furniture. I'm not exactly an old pro with condoms and somebody handed me a kind that I've never heard of that have a 'numbing agent' that makes your dick totally lose all sensation, which totally kept me from getting it up even if the shivering and goose bumps and scrotal shrinkage and general self-consciousness under bright florescents with strangers hadn't done that trick already. Not the kind of place where a guy who has trouble getting comfortable is going to do well. But regardless I had fun, I did nail my wife and my favorite girlfriend (twice each) and I went down on two strangers. No regrets other than what I'm talking about here about how I wish I could keep up with my wife once the party starts.

For a long time I was thinking that my problem was that we're meeting the wrong people, and maybe if we could just meet a couple who were more compassionate and patient then I could ease into a comfort zone. Changed our onlinen profile around to feature me out front instead of dangling naked wife in front of strangers. But we've met lots of great people and nope, it's me. We keep one couple close because that describes them exactly but even with them the guy was still on my wife way too quickly for me the first time or two. I just sucked it up and we kept calling them and after the second or third meeting I have a BLAST. The norm is just for guys to jump on new girls and drill them really early, so I want to learn to be the norm.

I just really wish that the cost of meeting new people wasn't feeling shitty and unable to keep up. Every time we meet new people I feel this.

[b&J69]

One thing I noticed, you said you were just off one night. That is a concrete reason to stay home. Both of us have been there and if we do go out and we have, it invariably does not work out well. Sometimes people are just off and either of you should be able to call it. Like I said, we've been there and done that. The person who is off has to expend a lot if intellectual energy trying to get in the right frame of mind which actually makes it worse for them. Think of it this way, you are off and while that makes it harder on you, it does come across to your play partner and you are not, well, giving your best game and we all want our playmates to enjoy the time they spend with us as much as possible. I know I do and in talking, my wife wants our playmates to not think that Mr BJ is a crappy lay, not a good reflection on either of us. An off evening can do just that.