What do I do now....

[NDULGME69]

My husband and I have been in the lifestyle for a short time. We were doing incredible! Our sex life intensified by 100% the love we had for each other skyrocketed. Life was GREAT! Up to this point, it seemed my husband was the only one really having a good time with other couples. In my eyes he was really getting into it and having fun. On the other hand, I had some interesting experiences with men unable to perform for whatever reason, but I made the best of it no matter what. This past weekend, we met a couple, who were a lot more experienced than we were. They were very comfortable with anything that happened. This was my very first GOOD experience with another man and I decided to really get into it and have fun. My husband ABSOLUTELY lost it. It's been almost a week and he's changed into someone I don't even know anymore. It breaks my heart. We had talked about everything all the way up to this point. Whether or not we had boundaries, how were would gauge each others reactions or if either of us were uncomfortable at any time, we had to say something or do something to stop. That was all quite clear up front. During this particular incident, he didn't stop anything, when I looked over at him, he looked like he was having a great time, but he wasn't. He couldn't handle the fact that I was having intense sex with someone else. Now, he says, "I hope" we can get through this, "I can only hope" this doesn't destroy us. I also have to say this...He told me (the day after this happened) that he invited these people to our hotel room because he wanted to see me having a good time with this man. My problem with this is, he didn't tell me his intensions, he didn't tell me his agenda. I almost feel like he set me up, just to satify his curiosity and now he didn't like what he saw, so it's my fault for allowing myself to get so crazy with the other man. I just don't know what to do. I told him that we should just take a break from the lifestyle and heal. Has anyone else every experienced this kind of heartbreak in their relationship? What do I do, what do I say, how do I help him heal.

Saddened....

[blackcreme2003]

Welcome to the board. I hope you find the advice you are looking for and good luck on your situation.

[2much]

Originally Posted by NDULGME69

My husband and I have been in the lifestyle for a short time. We were doing incredible! Our sex life intensified by 100% the love we had for each other skyrocketed. Life was GREAT! Up to this point, it seemed my husband was the only one really having a good time with other couples. In my eyes he was really getting into it and having fun. On the other hand, I had some interesting experiences with men unable to perform for whatever reason, but I made the best of it no matter what. This past weekend, we met a couple, who were a lot more experienced than we were. They were very comfortable with anything that happened. This was my very first GOOD experience with another man and I decided to really get into it and have fun. My husband ABSOLUTELY lost it. It's been almost a week and he's changed into someone I don't even know anymore. It breaks my heart. We had talked about everything all the way up to this point. Whether or not we had boundaries, how were would gauge each others reactions or if either of us were uncomfortable at any time, we had to say something or do something to stop. That was all quite clear up front. During this particular incident, he didn't stop anything, when I looked over at him, he looked like he was having a great time, but he wasn't. He couldn't handle the fact that I was having intense sex with someone else. Now, he says, "I hope" we can get through this, "I can only hope" this doesn't destroy us. I also have to say this...He told me (the day after this happened) that he invited these people to our hotel room because he wanted to see me having a good time with this man. My problem with this is, he didn't tell me his intensions, he didn't tell me his agenda. I almost feel like he set me up, just to satify his curiosity and now he didn't like what he saw, so it's my fault for allowing myself to get so crazy with the other man. I just don't know what to do. I told him that we should just take a break from the lifestyle and heal. Has anyone else every experienced this kind of heartbreak in their relationship? What do I do, what do I say, how do I help him heal.

Saddened....

Well, let me first say that i hope this works out for the best of your relationship. I am not sure if my experience can help, but at least it will give you some comfort in knowing that your hubby is not any different than many of us. I have a total fetish for seing my gorgeous wife (who I LOVE LOVE LOVE more than anything) with another man. It is almost obsessive & has been a source of difficulty with us at times b/c she feels I should only be attracted to HER and not HER + another man. Soooo, we have had a few minor encounters with a M friend of ours watching us but that's about it; until she met Mr X. Mr X is a very attractive man & she decides he will be the one to join us. Finally, I get to see her in all her glory with another man. I should add that in past relationships I had many MMF experiences but it was always initiated by me and my sign. oth. wasn't ever as into it as I had hoped. So back to Mr X - we meet up, have dinner, then after much wine we head to the hotel where all the magic happens. It is truly a hot evening and she is going to town on him. I mean, yelling, moaning, ravaging him and yelling for him to F@&$ her, etc... For a while I am into it, it's everything I fantasized it would be PLUS she is the one taking the initiative. Well, something "clicked" in my brain the wrong way and I eventually found myself sitting on the sofa watching them, then watching TV because I couldn't watch. She was giving it to him better than I can even remember her giving it to me - I was stirring a pot of feelings that included jealousy, betrayal, anger, hurt, drunkenness and desire. It was truly a wierd feeling. The evening ended up going in the wrong direction and there is much more to the story, but the bottom line is this - I cannot blame her, for it is natural to go with your feelings and to be more free with someone "new", plus I was the one who invited this so how could I be mad?
I think maybe you and your hubby should over-communicate - he is no doubt hurting and if you want to have a solid relationship then communication must play a big part. Talk it out, but no fighting. Maybe put each other's feelings down on paper and talk about them, it helped me.
Best wishes!

[Spoomonkey]

You know - this is one of those weird swing things that does happen...

When we play - most of the time I am the one having a great time. Unfortunately, the percentage of men who are lousy in bed seems to be the same in the lifestyle as it is out of it.

So, when Mrs Spoo has a great experience, I have occassionally caught myself dealing with the green-eyed monster... I have no idea why...

She is always quite the "show girl" in a play room. If the guy isn't great, she'll still make him feel like a god; but I can tell the difference between her "show" and her really getting into it.

I have pretty much learned to deal with it now, by channeling it back into my own sexual expression - both with my playmate at the time and with Mrs Spoo when we get home. After all - it is really a very primal reaction.

The problem is - as natural as the reaction is - your husband HAS to decide to recognize it for what it is (irrational, selfish and childish) before he can work his way through it.

Your having a good time SHOULD be one of the reasons you guys swing - just like his having a good time should be as well. Once he recognizes that - and recognizes that it may not happen as often for you as it does for him, it will happen - he can learn to deal with it, use it and ultimately enjoy the hell out of it.

The thoughts of Mrs Spoomonkey's hair thrashing about when she is having a good time is one of the visions that makes porn obsolete

Spoomonkey

[NakedInSeattle]

Ditto, Spoo. That's what turns me on, too and what keeps me cumming back for more.

Our experience is that Mrs. Naked usually scores and enjoys more than me. That's just fine with me.

Can't say I really understand Mr. NDULGME's jealousy. He's had a good time and said he wanted her to, also. Why jealous now after she does? I hope you guys work it out. The only way you will is by talking and sharing how you REALLY feel (which I don't think he has so far).

My 2 1/2 cents worth.

[WesternSwing]

This last weekend Mrs. WS and I were with a couple we have been with on several occasions and also have become friends with. They are really great people. Mrs. WS is definitely attracted to both of them, and the husband in particular. He is a good looking guy, funny, really really nice, we all get along like we've been friends for years, and he has a really fat cock. Mrs. WS REALLY enjoys sex with him, because of all of the above, not just one trait. He is a whole package. I get off watching Mrs. WS get so turned-on by them!

Well, this last weekend we are all having sex in thier bedroom. Mrs. WS and J (we'll call him) get going at it and Mrs. WS is screaming in ecstasy like I've never heard her before. Ever. Saying stuff like "oh my God, it's so good" etc. Well we were taking some photos that night for all of us and I thought this was really hot and decided to record some .mpeg video of it. Well when all was said and done and Mrs. WS was watching the video on the camera she became really embarrassed about her "performance". We all thought it was really hot, but she was afraid that she might have hurt mine and his wife's feelings. K (J's wife) even told Mrs. WS that she had never even seen a porn movie that hot. But she was still worried.

For me the feelings were two-fold. Yeah, I was little bothered by the fact that I've never made her scream like that; that she probably had a better time with J then she ever has with me. But, on the other hand why, since I love her, would I want to deprive her of such an experience. It would be selfish on my behalf. And as I've quoted before on this board, "In jealousy there is more self-love then love." Why would I want to make her feel guilty about being herself when this is all about being ourselves?

So a few days go by and I can tell it is still troubling Mrs. WS. So when all was quiet in the house I slipped into the conversation "you know, what happened Friday night... It was hot, and I am totally okay with it." At which point she says "You're sure? You're sure we're alright?" I told her "of course". I mean I was still a huge part of it, right? I was there. It was because of that security blanket that she could let loose like she did. If she was married to anybody else she wouldn't even be swinging and would never have been there to have such great sex to begin with. So in essense it is because of me that she had such a great time. And she loves me more for it. Then we preceded to have damn good sex ourselves. I still get a woody from thinking about her and J together on Friday.

Right now he is having newbie jealousy and anxiety. Sometimes the reality doesn't match the fantasy. No matter how much you prepare yourself you never know exactly how you'll react until you are there. However, saying things like that is downright hurtful and he needs to quit it. You did nothing wrong. I mean what did he think, you were never supposed to enjoy yourself? You're just supposed to lay there and think about all the chores that need to be done around the house? He needs to realize this is his issue, not yours. Once again, you've done nothing wrong. He is having self-confindence issues. Jealosy is a symtom of insecurity.

The fact is you love him. You've had great sex with someone else and you still love him and you're not going to leave him. In fact, you said you love him 100% more since you've started swinging. He needs to look at it like that. As a couple you've crossed a major bridge.

I can tell you what I was looking for from Mrs. WS in the early stages of our swinging when she became more comfortable and thus started enjoying herself more. I thought she was being wilder, showed more enthusiasm about having sex with someone else, or was more vocal. She constantly reassured me that I am her number one. Period. And no other dick, no other man, will ever change that. That sex with others is not better then sex with me, just different. That the two are not even comparable because there is an intimacy, a comfort level, that we share that she never will have with someone else. And besides, we have kids in the house all the time, it's not like she can be as loud at home.

All you can do is reassure him that he is still "it" for you. The rest he'll have to deal with as his own issues. You can't fix him, he has to fix himself. All you can do bandage up his wound, he has to do the healing. And he can't start healing until he admits that it is his insecurity, thus jealousy, that is the problem. He has to ask himself how he can have great sex with another woman and still be throughly in love with you but you can't do the same with another man? When it comes right down to it, isn't it the same?

I hope that helps.

Mr. WS

[Coupleinidaho]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

This last weekend Mrs. WS and I were with a couple we have been with on several occasions and also have become friends with. They are really great people. Mrs. WS is definitely attracted to both of them, and the husband in particular. He is a good looking guy, funny, really really nice, we all get along like we've been friends for years, and he has a really fat cock. Mrs. WS REALLY enjoys sex with him, because of all of the above, not just one trait. He is a whole package. I get off watching Mrs. WS get so turned-on by them!

Well, this last weekend we are all having sex in thier bedroom. Mrs. WS and J (we'll call him) get going at it and Mrs. WS is screaming in ecstasy like I've never heard her before. Ever. Saying stuff like "oh my God, it's so good" etc. Well we were taking some photos that night for all of us and I thought this was really hot and decided to record some .mpeg video of it. Well when all was said and done and Mrs. WS was watching the video on the camera she became really embarrassed about her "performance". We all thought it was really hot, but she was afraid that she might have hurt mine and his wife's feelings. K (J's wife) even told Mrs. WS that she had never even seen a porn movie that hot. But she was still worried.

For me the feelings were two-fold. Yeah, I was little bothered by the fact that I've never made her scream like that; that she probably had a better time with J then she ever has with me. But, on the other hand why, since I love her, would I want to deprive her of such an experience. It would be selfish on my behalf. And as I've quoted before on this board, "In jealousy there is more self-love then love." Why would I want to make her feel guilty about being herself when this is all about being ourselves?

So a few days go by and I can tell it is still troubling Mrs. WS. So when all was quiet in the house I slipped into the conversation "you know, what happened Friday night... It was hot, and I am totally okay with it." At which point she says "You're sure? You're sure we're alright?" I told her "of course". I mean I was still a huge part of it, right? I was there. It was because of that security blanket that she could let loose like she did. If she was married to anybody else she wouldn't even be swinging and would never have been there to have such great sex to begin with. So in essense it is because of me that she had such a great time. And she loves me more for it. Then we preceded to have damn good sex ourselves. I still get a woody from thinking about her and J together on Friday.

Right now he is having newbie jealousy and anxiety. Sometimes the reality doesn't match the fantasy. No matter how much you prepare yourself you never know exactly how you'll react until you are there. However, saying things like that is downright hurtful and he needs to quit it. You did nothing wrong. I mean what did he think, you were never supposed to enjoy yourself? You're just supposed to lay there and think about all the chores that need to be done around the house? He needs to realize this is his issue, not yours. Once again, you've done nothing wrong. He is having self-confindence issues. Jealosy is a symtom of insecurity.

The fact is you love him. You've had great sex with someone else and you still love him and you're not going to leave him. In fact, you said you love him 100% more since you've started swinging. He needs to look at it like that. As a couple you've crossed a major bridge.

I can tell you what I was looking for from Mrs. WS in the early stages of our swinging when she became more comfortable and thus started enjoying herself more. I thought she was being wilder, showed more enthusiasm about having sex with someone else, or was more vocal. She constantly reassured me that I am her number one. Period. And no other dick, no other man, will ever change that.

(Mr. here) This is one of the areas that the Mrs. and I talked about at length when we were discussing the possibility of swinging. She has already made it quite clear to me that the reality of some other woman making me more vocal/physical, would hurt her deeply. She asked me how I would feel if some other man prompted vocal/physical responses that I have not experienced with her. When she phrased it that way, I can tell you that my heart dropped a few feet. While the way she looks, sounds, feels..when having an orgasm is the BIGGEST turn on for me, after thinking about it, I don't know if I could handle knowing my wife was saying things and doing things with another man that she hasn't done with me. I just don't think I would be able to look at our marriage or her in the same light after something like that. She feels the same way, and for US, it was the right choice not to attempt swinging.

But we wish you both the best of luck, and hope everything works out for the two of you. =)

[txduo2000]

This is definitely one of those situations where people *think* they know what they want, but they have no idea how it will make them feel until it actually happens. And this is what happened with your husband. Perhaps he was feeling that since he was having such a great time with others, that he would be ok with you doing it too, and when it did happen, he just wasn't prepared for the overwhelming feelings that it brought over him.

This sounds to me like an insecurity issue. One of extreme insecurity, which therefore breeds jealousy.

First, you need to realize that this was NOT in any way your fault. Yes, your husband's feelings are real, and they cannot be ignored, but HE brought them on by setting up the encounter you described, and HE didn't fully prepare himself for the avalanche of feelings that he developed over actually seeing his fantasy come to fruition.

Mr. WS and Spoomonkey have given you some great words. There is no way any one of us can pre-determine exactly how we will feel in a given situation, until after it has occurred. It is how we process and deal with those feelings that make all the difference in the world.

I am a Scorpio ... and as such, I am a deeply emotional person (water sign). Of those emotions, jealousy is a TOP emotion. HOWEVER, when my husband and I made a decision to enter into swinging, I realized that I would have to approach it in a completely different mindset. I knew that my husband and I have more going for us than just sex, and that if I am there, while he is with another woman, then I would have no call to be worried about anything whatsoever. I will admit, that one of the reasons we do not swing separately is due most in part to jealousy and not knowing what is going on, being said, etc., should we be with others without each other present. It's not that I am terribly worried that he would be a different person without me there, it's just the "not knowing" that bothers me so much.

We also had a long battle to get where we are today, as far as swinging. A couple of really bad first experiences, insecurity, jealousy, inappropriate actions ... but I believe we have come a long way. I can absolutely say, 100% honestly, that it doesn't bother me in the least to see him having sex with another woman. I actually enjoy it to the point that I would like to simply sit off to the side and just watch ... lol.

One thing that you didn't mention as an improvement in your relationship was communication. This is the MOTHER of all qualities that HAS to be right up there at the top of the list of required qualities to have while swinging. Most marriages (typical, mainstream) end due to lack of communication, or lack of respect and understanding during communication. It's not necessarily the actions people take - it is how they approach dealing with communication about those actions. Effective communication is imperative in ANY marriage relationship, but even MORESO in a swinging marriage because so many things can get clouded with misunderstanding in a swinging relationship.

Your husband needs to reassess HIS reasons for wanting to get into swinging. Because it is sounding ALOT like his reasons weren't coupled with YOURS. A person can't decide to get into swinging because it's an easy way to get some "strange" with your spouse's permission. It has to be an agreement between both parties to extend their experiences TOGETHER and FOR each other. It sounds to me like your husband was having a great time when it was "all about" him and his needs and fantasies getting met, but when your needs and fantasies were met, he flipped out. That is absolutely selfishness and insecurity. He needs to ask himself, HONESTLY, why he wanted to indulge in this lifestyle, and he needs to be able to communicate that honestly.

It just doesn't sound to me like he has been completely honest with himself or with you from the beginning.

I will say that for me, my personal favorite swinging activity is MFM threesomes. That is NOT because I don't want my husband with another woman; it has more to do with what I want and what I like and how I like being the center of attention. THAT rings of selfishness, even to myself. MFM is NOT my husband's favorite, but he occasionally indulges me. That is not to say that I don't like full swap ... because I do. But if I were to write down a list of favorites, MFM would be at the top. And for us, swinging is about compromise in some situations. Not to be confused with "taking one for the team", compromise to us is simply occasionally indulging our partner's "favorite" activity, and occasionally participating in activities that are not our individual "favorites". Again, that's not to say that if it isn't our "favorite" we don't like certain activities, or that we wished, while participating in a less favorite activity that were doing the favorite, it just means that we keep each other in mind all the time because we are in this for each other - not ourselves, not anyone else.

It all comes down to, not the feelings themselves, but how those feelings are handled. You can't *make* your husband be honest with himself or with you. You cannot *make* him realize where he erred in this instance, or with swinging as a whole. All you can do is control your own reactions to any given situation. And though no one can *make* your husband think this way, that's really what he needs to do.

For what it is worth, those are my thoughts. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[NDULGME69]

Thank you all sooooo much!! We are trying to work through this one step at a time. I'm so confused about the way he feels. I thought we had a very clear understanding as to what could, would or should happen. I can't say that I didn't have any feelings watching him the first time he rocked someones world, but I was able to absorb it and understand it was ok, it's just sex. I also totally understand, it's really not my fault. The problem is, there is such a profound change in him, it just scares me. He says he's ok, he says he's fine and he's just working through the demons in his mind. Since this has happened, I've found him questioning things that I do while we're having sex. For instance, last night, he said, "Last night was the first night you've ever pushed me in the direction you wanted me to go." First of all, he definitley doesn't need any directing, he's incredible any direction he goes. I told him that I pushed him up (his chest) for this a reason...He's been working out, his body is changing and becoming very defined. I love touching the creases in his muscles. His clevage (if that's what you would call it on a man) is VERY defined and VERY sexy, and last night I just wanted to kiss and touch him with my face. That was the honest truth, but he looked at me like I was flat out lying to him. It's almost as if he's competing with that other man and almost as if he is trying to pick apart my actions as to me wanting him to do things to me like that other man. I guess time will tell. I hope he heals and the scars aren't too severe. I didn't mean to hurt him, I absolutely love this man, I would never try to sabatage what we have just to have sex with another man. Again thank you all soooo much, I'm so glad this site is here, I didn't have anyone to talk to about this and I actually feel a lot better.

[intuition897]

Well it sounds like NDulgeMe has found the advice she needed, but I'll throw my 2 cents in, too.

This is something we've discussed, and both Mr. intuition and I don't really care so much about who it is that's doing the pleasing; we're just happy to see each other enjoying it. Sex isn't why we stay together. I realize that while I can give a mean BJ, I still haven't been able to get the hang of that hand-job technique that one of his playmates was so good at. But that's ok. I know he doesn't value me less just because I'm not some supreme omnipotent sex goddess. I try, but let's be realistic here... We've decided not to hoarde each other's sexuality, just to keep each other from finding out this fact. I won't deny him the experience just to soothe my ego. If I have a pang of jealousy, I'll just have to deal with it and realize that it's only my own insecurity talking. A quick talk with Mr. about this usually resolves it in a hurry.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by NDULGME69

I also totally understand, it's really not my fault. The problem is, there is such a profound change in him, it just scares me. He says he's ok, he says he's fine and he's just working through the demons in his mind. Since this has happened, I've found him questioning things that I do while we're having sex.

Mrs. WS laughed at this because I was the same way at first. Overanalyzing everything that happened the night before. I can say that after more experience I became much more secure in "us" and this issue also went the way of the dinosaur. Now I look at her and say, "you know, that was pretty cool what you did to him, try it on me." And if someone else does something to her that makes her holler then I want to know about it. I'll add it to my bag-o-tricks, so I have all mine and his to get the job done. I also figured out that many times Mrs. WS was doing these things to me but that I just didn't notice them as much as when I was a participant rather than an observer.

You've had good sex in the past with other men (or man), right? And you still married him. So he must have something more going for him then any man before him, right? If a relationship was just built on good sex then you'd still be with some schmuck from your past instead of the great man you are married to now. You can find good sex in allot of places. But, you can't find a soulmate as easily. If just sex could steal you away from him then your relationship is pretty shallow, right?

Your hubby does have his demons he has to work through. The first step to solving the problem is admitting to yourself you have one, which he has done Keep reassuring him that he is the best. He has to work this out in his own mind. It may take awhile. Just tell him to stop overanalyzing everything you do or say. Take it from me, I know... I am the worst at it. "Jealousy, that dragon that slays love under the pretense of keeping it alive."

Mr. WS

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

I also figured out that many times Mrs. WS was doing these things to me but that I just didn't notice them as much as when I was a participant rather than an observer.

You know, this is a very profound statement, and I wonder how true it is for very many people? I am sure it is VERY true for a great many. As an "outsider", I believe we each do tend to notice much more than when we are right there in the thick of it all.