Idea of Helping Married Man Introduce his wife to swinging

[Alura]

Recently we got a direct e-mail from a married man asking, more or less, if we would let him join us for a threesome during the afternoon or on Saturday. Since this seems typical of cheaters, Mr. Alura wrote him a nice note saying, essentially, "Sorry, That's not our thing; we ain't a-gonna help you cheat."

Mrs. Alura then posted a somewhat more bitter note on the "Single Men's" forum. Since then, we've received a very nice "Thank you for answering...I understand..." e-mail from the same guy which seems to indicate he may be a really nice person.

Now, we have no interest in abandoning our "Couples only" philosophy but our discussions over the last few days have led us to think there may be another alternative. There have been a lot of posts written by married people who are interested in swinging but are afraid of the repercussions should they bring the subject up with their spouse, so they don't even ask.

Okay, suppose instead of turning the guy down flat, we had asked him if he was interested in getting his wife into swinging and, if so, suggested the following:

A "chance meeting" could be engineered with the help of the interested spouse. It could be in a bookstore, restaurant, library, expo, or any place where there would be a lot of people. The object would be to get the two couples into a conversation setting, dinner, a bar, or whatever. The "Mentor Couple" (that's us) would softly direct the conversation toward sex and, should that be successful, eventually pose the question, "How do y'all feel about swinging?"

The unaware spouse could get really pissed and walk out in a huff or he/she could express an interest. In any case, the aware one would have his/her question answered. If the reaction were positive, or at least not negative, it would certainly open up the subject for discussion and perhaps a whole new world of communication for them. The unaware spouse could not blame it on his/her mate.

From our standpoint, we wouldn't have known them before and it wouldn't matter if one of them got angry at us. We'd probably never see them again, anyway. As we've written before, the chase is one of the more important parts of the lifestyle to us. It could be fun and maybe one time out of ten might result in new playmates, especially if we knew beforehand that we had an ally.

So, Playful Sages and Sagettes of Intermarital Sex, what do you think? Is this a moral approach, consistant with the high ideals of swinging or is the necessary subterfuge, itself, a factor which could not be justified? Does it sound like fun to you? If so, would you be willing to be mentors for folks in your area who needed your help? Would you folks, who feel this sort of help could benefit you, take advantage of the opportunity? Are we way off base, here?

Alura

[JustAskJulie]

I guess my personal response to the idea woudl be that if the interested spouse can't talk to their spouse well enough to bring up the idea of swinging, then perhaps they shouldn't be attempting it.

[Stratecpl]

Alura,

That sounds like quite a plan. I can see where the mentor couple would have to be willing to give freely of their time and patience, if for no other reason than to help the other couple. This is a "good samaritan" type move, and pardon the so-called name!! LOL We won't ever help anyone cheat. But helping a struggling couple to their feet as you have described would be great. And they might even show their appreciation on you by becoming playmates and/or friends. But I also agree with Julie, they should discuss their problems together.

Ron, Husband of Stratecpl

[invictus]

Just from our own experience and likes, this sounds like potential trouble for the "wannabe newbie" husband. As you stated it will not affect you as you would probably never see them again. The husband on the other hand is setting himself up for a wife who may feel "cornered" and may not ever be interested if she gets a negative feeling from this.

Like Julie said, if they can't talk about it themselves then they are probably not ready.

J is open to just about anything if it happens at her own pace. If she feels "cornered" or "forced" in any way, she gets very negative about it.

Who knows?? This may be fun and work out for all of you but, if this was how we started, we would still be at the starting line.

M&J

[danc694u]

Hell hath no fury, like a woman that's been "cornered/lied to".

You would bring this up to a total stranger? With one party knowing, the other getting blind-sided.

I would certianly hope the woman has an IQ of about 40. If it's higher, she'll figure out that hubby arranged the meet, and be totally pissed at him!

[Alura]

Well, y'all have convinced us it's a bad idea. We kinda thought it might be all along but the idea of helping another couple improve their communication was tempting. In any case, we think there are too many pitfalls to give it a go. There are far too many "ifs" to hope that the plan could be consistantly successful. Thanks to all who answered for your usual wisdom.

Julie, we agree "if they can't talk, they shouldn't swing" but we would hope that any couple could improve their ability to share ideas if the desire were there.

Ron, we're grateful for your lone positive response. It shows, we think, that you are a truly compassionate person. You recognized the main purpose was to help others, who seemed to be at an impasse, to a more understanding marriage, not just to gain playmates. In the end, though, your wisdom recognized that to build their communication would still be up to them.

M&J, thank you for your eye-opening response. We confess not to have considered that the unaware spouse might feel "cornered." We would never knowingly be a part of that.

Danc, your response highlighted our greatest doubt that this was a good idea: that one of the "spice" would have to be unaware. It's interesting that you and M&J both assumed the "unaware spouse" would be the woman. We know a lady who would love to swing but is afraid to ask her husband about it. We can't help them; we think that if we tried it could kill the friendship. Anyway, they are way too young for us to play with and the lady works for one of our bigger customers. We can't take a chance on compromising that.

Again, thanks everyone! Is this message board composed of a great group of people? You bet!

Alura

[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Alura ]

[Alura]

We edited our last post. The purpose of this one is just to light up the envelope so y'all will notice there is something new.

Again, thanks to everyone.

Alura

[danc694u]

Originally posted by Alura:
<STRONG>Danc, ....snipped..... It's interesting that you and M&J both assumed the "unaware spouse" would be the woman.</STRONG>

I'm sorry you feel that way, because your original post stated it was a man. Made references to a man. What were we supposed to assume?

Originally posted by Alura:
<STRONG>Okay, suppose instead of turning the guy down flat, we had asked him if he was interested in getting his wife into swinging and, if so, suggested the following:.</STRONG>

....................

[Alura]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Danc. We had no intention of ever re-contacting that particular guy. We think he was a cheater. In describing "The Plan" we were thinking hypothetically and meant to include women. We were not clear on that. You're right, of course, as usual.

Alura

[danc694u]

Originally posted by Alura:
<STRONG> You're right, of course, as usual.

Alura</STRONG>

Well that certianly makes me feel bad. Because I would have given the question more thought, and possibly a completely differant answer.

But I think the "spouse" should inform one another about the topic, before the dinner. I can see my EX just going nuclear for not being informed beforehand. But then again, she didn't plan anything. It was always spur of the moment, and always on her terms.

Personally, I wouldn't be offended if Maggie and one of her friends sprung this on me. I would ask that she not do it that way next time. But it wouldn't "shock" me in the least. I can only rely on my past experiences with other people.

David

[Alura]

Hey, David!

I'm not sure we ever got across the idea we had originally come up with. When that guy first wrote, we were pretty pissed-off. (See my wife's remarks on the e-mails we've gotten from single men.) The guy seemed, to me, to be looking for a free whore for the afternoons and on Saturday mornings. How transparent could he have been?

In discussing it, we tried to give him as much slack as we could, and thought, "Maybe he's just afraid to ask his wife if she's interested in swinging, like a lot of the people who write in and ask how to bring up the subject."

Our idea was to engage the couple in conversation, broach the subject, not out of the blue, but gently led into while watching for red flags along the way, get them talking to each other and walk out. "Well, nice meeting y'all, Grandma is baby-sitting, we gotta go. So long!" There is little a "catalyst couple" could do other than getting them talking. The decision, of course, would have to be up to the two of them.

Nevertheless, we think the whole idea is very impractical. There are too many "ifs" to be resolved along the way. You'll notice also, that nobody has written to this thread and said, "Hey, y'all! I'd like some help like that!"

Thanks for persevering, David. We've always respected your ideas and wouldn't want you to feel we were trying to cut you down in any way. You add a lot of wisdom to this board and we appreciate you.

Don't feel bad. I'm reminded of a remark that was popular years ago which went something like this: "I know you heard what I said, but I'm not sure that my remarks accurately reflected what I was thinking."

Husband of Alura

[sccple29073]

hi all
Ok a lot of stuff has been said regarding this post and I hate to bring it back active when a great dicussion on the subject has already taken place, but just one thought about a cheating person and the whole idea.
People may say that the partner is not interested when it could just be that they are not interested in including their partner.
If you are against cheating then why would you even want to give someone your valuable time and effort in trying to coax their partner into it?
As many people have said it definately should be left up to the partners to approach the subject with each other.

But let me not go into a being a broken record...lol.

Hll

[danc694u]

Originally posted by hllmail:
<STRONG>
If you are against cheating then why would you even want to give someone your valuable time and effort in trying to coax their partner into it?</STRONG>

We would give a couple our time. If they both requested it. If they both were truly interested in hearing what we have to say about swinging.

I want to say, that everyone here has spoken with at least one part of a couple about swinging, without the other spouse knowing about it.

I'd go so far as to say it's totally normal, and okay. Maybe that person had questions, and wanted some answers. There's no need to wave a red flag because someone ask you about the lifestyle, without their spouse present.

We all start somewhere. It's very rare (impossible) that the idea of swinging jumps into both parties minds, and out their mouths at the same time.

I would feel really uncomfortable assisting someone "spring" the idea on their spouse. I will give them advice, pointers, etc, etc. But, please leave us out of the initial conversations with the spouse.

[JustAskJulie]

I just ran across this old thread and thought it was interesting so I would bring it back up and see what others thought of it.

[rdc]

When swinging was first brought up with my hubbie and I, I was the one to bring it up. Hubbies eyes light up -- he said he had always been interested, but would have never been able to suggest it to me.

However, I would have felt cornered if I had been included in a conversation with my husband and another couple. I probably would have never been ready in that case, simply because I would have been so pissed that swinging would have automatically gone to the top of my "top 10 list of things to never do".