Do people make things complicated?

[RW1F]

From my last couple of months on this board I get the sense that a lot of people make this swinging thing much more complicated than it needs to be. My wife and I don't "swing" but we have enjoyed the voyeur/exhibionist part a few times at some clubs. Of our three visits to clubs we have never walked away without a chance to have sex with at least one other couple. On two of the three visits we had multiple offers and could have jumped on a few "piles" as well. I think we're probably in a good area for this kind of thing but I just can't imagine that it's all that hard to find other people that want to have sex. For the record, my wife is an attractive 30-ish gal but not a supermodel, I'm an attractive guy that needs to shed about 30-40 lbs. Neither of us are what you'd consider porn star ready but we aren't grotesque either. Just average people in a club full of mostly average people.

I guess my question is, are those people that have difficulty finding partners........

1: Are you looking for friends or just "fuck buddies". Also, how picky are you being in either case?

2: Do you use the internet/magazines or do you go to on-premise clubs?

3: Have you turned down opportunities or do you just not have any?

[Elusive BiFem]

Many times I've wondered the same things, RW1F, and I'm glad you've thrown the question out there.

From reading this board for almost 2 years, it seems to me that we preach all these "rules" and I suppose they are OK, but for new people coming along, I've often felt they get so caught up in the "rules" and the "rule-making" that they almost forget what they are making the rules for. Sure, everyone has likes/dislikes, preferences, etc., but it just seems that for the most part, people need to trust their spouse/partner to a degree that allows them to be at least minimally comfortable with what might happen and if something "negative" occurs, be willing to talk about it later. The other thing that has occurred to me is that some people get caught up in situations which should have resulted in a "no, absolutely not" response, but failed to stand their ground on issues that are important to them. The ability to say no and walk away if that isn't respected is important, I think.

The other thing I've noticed is that the more experienced swingers tend to go with the flow. They do know how to say no, and many of them admit that they have culled their "rules" from a book-size list down to just 3, 4, 5 things that are really important to them as a couple.

For me? Yes, I am looking for friends in addition to sex partners and if that doesn't work for others, c'est la vie. But that doesn't mean that either of us are bad. In fact, I've made some friends along the way that have completely different views than mine. And, yes, I'm exceedingly picky, but that has worked for me, leaving me with a sense of comfort. I started with very good friends - spontaneously - and later responded to some ads. But again, I spent some time getting to know people via chat and phone, so I can't say I've had any bad experiences. I did meet a few people that could have resulted in a bad experience had I not trusted my own gut instincts. And as for turning down opportunities? I suppose I've turned down way far more than I've accepted. Like I said. Picky. But it works for me.

Bottom line, I think, is know exactly what you want, what you will accept, your personal limits, and then go for it. Don't spend time worrying if it doesn't happen immediately because you aren't out to prove anything to anyone. You're out to have fun for yourself.

- EBF

[Dave_kat]

Very well said Elusive, wish we would have known you when we were just down in Texas a couple of weeks ago.

RW1F, we've noticed a few things in our time, and hopefully have a bit of bearing on this.

We're listed on several internet sites, and when we first started that was where we met people from. We've never been in really strong, outgoing areas, it's always been a long drive for us to attend any kind of club (you can only go where the Army sends you, but next reenlistment, well, we'll try to do better). Originally after 2 years of searching we found 2 couples who actually went ahead and met.

Since we moved to Ga, 5 years ago, we've met maybe 3 or 4 couples from online. It'll go from the email stage to suggestions for a meet, but well, we've been stood up more than we'd care to admit.

We've met most of those we play with in a nightclub.

As far as both on-premis and off-premis clubs, we usually leave with some kind of offer, or if the mood strikes, just jump right in.

A good rule of thumb we figure is simply that online, some are looking but perhaps more into the search than the find, and well, if they are willing to go to a club, they are a bit more serious about things.

[ALilOEverything]

We definitely made it more complicated than what it needed to be in the beginning. But we were testing the waters and weren't exactly sure of what/who we were looking for, how to go about it, and what we would actually be comfortable with. It took a couple experiences to figure it all out, what we want to get out of it, and now it's going much more smooth. So I just wonder if it's a newbie thing that makes it complicated...we're still newbies, and it will probably keep getting easier as we are discovering that the clubs are definitely a much easier way to go.

[wrnakedru]

It actually depends on what you're looking for - that is, what you hope to find and get from the experience. Certainly, if all one's expectation level is simply to have sex with someone - you are correct. That is not difficult to find. For us, what is sought is something a notch above walking into a club and saying - "Okay, who in here is ready to get into some hot monkey sex?"

We're a fun, in love couple who recently celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary. Happily married, very little to no drama in our regular everyday lives. We're well attuned to one another; even kind and considerate to one another. Prefer to spend time around similar types of people.

We've got a multitude of eclectic interests, and find pleasure in many aspects of life. Although sex is one of those, so is sitting on a porch with a bottle of wine watching a thunderstorm blow in.

Love to go dancing, drinking, flirting, and raising hell too, though!

We don't NEED to swing, as our sex life is complete just the way it is. If and when we do decide to swing, it's a choice we've made together and will never be because it is “expected” by others. We're not a “f**k to just get off” kinda couple and therefore aren't a good match for those who are. We like to take our time; we like things slow - in an almost 'lazy' manner, but sensual, steamy, and very erotic. facelick Not just a quick bang. We will never, ever go there if the mood's not right, and again, especially just because it's anticipated or expected by others.

We look for pleasant, fun, “swinger minded” couples for friendships. We like to find people who are not solely motivated by "the bottom line" and are as laid back and easy going about the lifestyle as we are. We're not the type that has to want to go to bed with someone in order to be able to hang out with them, and we expect the same thing in others. We don't care to meet those who can only think or talk about sex and nothing else.

Does this mean we're not going to have sex in numbers to compete with others, even though it's out there and we could? Yep, I guess it does.

Does this seem like we've complicated the process? Perhaps. But it's what works for us and we wouldn't have it any other way.

WR

[mrs good times]

Originally Posted by RW1F

1: Are you looking for friends or just "fuck buddies". Also, how picky are you being in either case?

We don't necessarily look for either but have found both. True friends are difficult to make in vanilla life let alone swinging but we have been fortunate to make friends with two couples that we do vanilla activities with too. Finding four people that have enough combined life interests can be hard.

We also have "fuck buddies" that we only see at the club and have never exchanged phone numbers with but see them on a regular basis. We have noticed that these types are usually very busy people or professionals that don't have the time or energy to become friends.

Originally Posted by RW1F

2: Do you use the internet/magazines or do you go to on-premise clubs?

We use the clubs primarily because we are lucky enough to have two close by that we like. I like the spontanaety and seeing new faces and getting to know people. I also feel that it can be as high pressure or a low pressure as you wish to make it. I have no problem visiting with a couple I am not interested in swinging with even after turning down their offer simply because they are nice people. Those that have trouble saying no are the ones that get into bad situations in the clubs from what I have witnessed.

Originally Posted by RW1F

3: Have you turned down opportunities or do you just not have any?

Absolutily we have turned down opportunities. Our first night out we talked with a very interesting couple for about an hour. We really enjoyed there company but we were not ready to swing with anyone on our first venture. To this day we have never played with this couple but we enjoy them enough to do vanilla activities with them about once a month.

[TNT]

Do people make things to complicated?

In our opinion yes. But it’s something that is not unusual for new people just getting started.

When most people start thinking about getting involved with swinging it comes about by them sharing fantasies with each other. In their mind things go exactly as they want it to. The person/persons they may be sharing with are idealized porn stars that perform exactly their fantasies. Porn being really the only experience they have with group sex of any kind.

When they decide to turn fantasy into reality they get a rude awakening in that most of us are not “porn star/model” material. We are real people. Unrealistic expectations are quickly dashed and people become disillusioned.

Making the step from “Yes, I/we want to do this but the person I/we do this with must look, act and be the perfect body shape, the perfect personality and be just who we have fantasied about being with”...to relaxing, going with the flow, not beating your head up against the wall looking for something that possibly is not there and enjoying the swinging lifestyle for what it really is ...normal people who enjoy spending time with others who have some of the same kinks as you do is when things start going easier.

When people stop looking for the “perfect swing partner” and start looking at whether or not they can have fun with someone in bed, things start to get easy.

An example...I have a friend whom her husband and her have been looking for swing partners for over a year, they have done FMF threesomes, but are wanting to hook up with a couple. Her husband asked her why they were having such a difficult time, her answer was that it was her, she was not going to fuck someone that did not meet her standards in looks, her standards being her husband. She compares every man of every couple they talk to, to her husband and finds faults with them all.

My take on the situation is DUHHHH, no one will ever meet the height that I have Ted placed on...he is perfection personified to me but...that does not mean that I can’t find other men attractive and enjoy being with them. Physical attraction is important to us all, but the more experienced people have come to the realization that it is not the most important part of finding swinging partners. Whether or not you feel you can have a good time with someone is what comes to the forefront when choosing people to play with. You let go of the “perfect fantasy” and start to enjoy the reality of it all. Someone you enjoy a good comradery with, regardless of looks, will always make the better play partners.

To answer your original questions...

1: Are you looking for friends or just "fuck buddies". Also, how picky are you being in either case?

We look for both, sometimes they are one and the same, sometimes not. We are picky in the respect that we have to enjoy their company.

2: Do you use the internet/magazines or do you go to on-premise clubs?

Internet and clubs as well as other friends who are in the swinging lifestyle.

3: Have you turned down opportunities or do you just not have any?

We have turned down probably more than we have accepted, but still have no lack of partners.

TNT

[good times]

I would say that some people make it more complicated than it really is, but on the other hand it can be more complicated than you seem to imply. As an example lets say a couple goes to a club and thier are 20 couples in attendence. In our experiance of the 20 we might find 2 or 3 couples that we find physically attractive to both of us that we approach. The first problem you run into is at least half of the 20 are voyeurs or exibitionists Or the woman of the couple is just looking for a bi-female and the husband can't/won't play, they are going to turn you down because they are not interested in what you are. Now we introduce ourselves to the 2 or 3 couples we both found attractive and lets say the first one was one of the voyeurs so they turn us down. The second couples personallity doesn't mesh with ours so we don't persue them. And the third couple thinks the Mrs. is hot but finds me repulsive. We just struck out. This hypothetical situation is not that uncommon, in fact, we have had nights were we approached a half a dozen couples and they were all ehibitionists or voyeurs and we didn't have sex with anybody but ourselves (which isn't neccesarily a bad thing). I personally don't consider exibitionists and voyeurs to be swingers, but I understand that the swingers clubs are about the only place they can indulge in what they are into without getting arrested.


[quote=RW1F]
I guess my question is, are those people that have difficulty finding partners........

Originally Posted by RW1F

1: Are you looking for friends or just "fuck buddies". Also, how picky are you being in either case?

Both, I don't think we are exceptionally picky but lets face it, you are trying to get 4 people that each finds the other three attractive, and that isn't as easy as it seems.

Originally Posted by RW1F

2: Do you use the internet/magazines or do you go to on-premise clubs?

Clubs

Originally Posted by RW1F

3: Have you turned down opportunities or do you just not have any?

Both, just this Friday we went to a club and it was a slow night so the choices were a little slim. Nobody struck our fancy as play partners but we got to meet and visit with several nice couples and had a good time anyway.

[VegasLee]

Yes, many if not most that we know and see on boards make this Lifestyle much harder then what it is or needs to be.

Just to go back to the good old days when swinging was about having sex. Did not even need to know their names more or less what they did for a living, if they where married, had kids or where they lived.

Some people do not like my lifestyle. That is fine by me, it is mine and not theirs. I have my relationship and the Love of my Life, it is Laura. I am not looking for anything more then the fun, excitement and pleasures of sex.

Now in saying that sometimes I do get more then I ask for. I do end up with more friends in my life and people that I enjoy hanging out with but honestly, I never go looking for more friends. It just happens. To me that is what friendship is, something that happens without me looking for it. Also, I can count my REAL friends really fast. I am very picky about my friends. Friends are someone I can have a hell of a fight with and in my very non-PC manner lay it out for them what is wrong and when we are done it is over and we go on with life still being friends. My Friends do not talk behind my back, they have the balls to talk to my face. (that narrows it down real fast on who my true friends are.) My Friends also accept me for who I am, don't judge me and we all go on with our great lives.

Over the years, people have changed the "Lifestyle". Now it is voyeurs, exhibitionists, dirty dancing or just hanging out with naked people because it is fun.

Swinging was once about sex. Yes, the good old days of swinging. Simple and easy as it was. As with most things in life, people start thinking hard about something and see how complicated they can make it.

[OhioCouple]

Originally Posted by ALilOEverything

We definitely made it more complicated than what it needed to be in the beginning. But we were testing the waters and weren't exactly sure of what/who we were looking for, how to go about it, and what we would actually be comfortable with. It took a couple experiences to figure it all out, what we want to get out of it, and now it's going much more smooth.

We couldn't agree with this more. Our initial list of criteria and rules, which were many...have dwindled down to a handfull. As we grew more comfortable after meeting other swingers and visiting clubs, we began to relax and re-define our own preferences . We have had no problem meeting folks that we are interested in, despite the wide gap in age for Mr. O and myself and the fact that we are in the 'elder' age group.

My suggestion to newly interested swingers would be to take that step, wet your feet by at least meeting like-minded people that you share 'some' common interests with, for a cup of coffee, a lunch, dinner, etc. While they may not be the ones that you 'click' with enough to entertain in your bedroom, you will have gained some experience and learned better about how the minds of other swingers 'click' and how to re-define (if needed) your preferences as you go through the learning process.

[stoutgatte]

We got lucky, we only just started to consider swinging, and attended a meet of a chatsite linked to a swingers site... I chat there a lot and we met a couple that we got along with well and both found extremely attractive. They invited us over for norti games and we had a great time and our first experience.

Moving on from there has been very easy, and while we're still newbies at swinging, we are meeting people we like and find attractive on a regular basis, even though we primarily use the net for it. We'd typically chat online a bit and even if we don't get along stunningly, we'd meet people anyway. I think many people expect to get along too well with people over the net, and as a result are not meeting people who could work very well for them. Our experience is that some people just can't go without a face to talk to... We have had a couple of extremely boring nights out though...

We are fairly picky about our partners, and won't play with someone if we don't get along socially, and there must be a physical/mental attraction for both of us. But we're looking for both friends and fuck buddies. We have found friends in at least one couple we swing with and prefer it that way, but if you're not interested in friendship and we find each other attractive on all the right levels we'll do the with you any day.

There has also been some pittfalls, we found out the hard way that rules are a good thing, but in learning this we realised our relationship is open/strong enough to easily handle those situations where one of us stepped over the line...

But from the people who posted in this thread, it seems like none of us who replied are those RW1F intended to reach...

[Elusive BiFem]

stoutgatte? A question, if you please. And it is a serious question, so don't bite!

I'm probably going to display a great deal of ignorance with this, but it won't be the first time, so here goes...

You're in South Africa. With the incidence of AIDS/HIV so high in Africa, aren't you even more afraid of contracting the disease? Do you take special precautions other than condoms, etc.? Is there a difference in the incidence of the disease in South Africa vs. other regions of the country? Is it difficult to find play partners due to the disease? Do people undergo regular testing?

Just seems it would be of even greater concern over there, but really, I haven't a clue. - EBF

[stoutgatte]

South-Africa has the highest incidence of HIV/AIDS in the world. But, the occurence of HIV/AIDS in previously disadvantaged communities is extremely high, the reasons for this is that traditional healers (who treat the poorest of the poor) don't merit western medicine, and many won't accept that HIV/AIDS is a reality. There are many other factors as well, but I'm not enough of an expert. But it increases the incidence for the region as a whole.

All that said, it remains an issue and we have to be very carefull. As a result most won't consider sex without condoms and frankly, neither do we. But we don't take any special precaution other than that. We would not swing with couples who don't use condoms as a rule.

As with many things in life you can take precautions to the extreme, or choose to take precautions to an acceptable level. Simply using condoms on a regular basis reduces the probability of infection significantly, and we're happy to accept the minimal risks involved in oral contact. Since anal sex is a high risk activity (even with condoms, since they tear) we do not allow anal when swinging.

[tazzie_n_truck]

Us personally when we look for people to swing with, we look for people who we can be friends with and do things with besides just sex.

We did the meet with other couples and have sex, and we eneded up feeling used in the end, so that's why we look for friends first.

Some people may think we are being pickey, but we look at it as we are just being careful, mainly because you never know who you could meet out there.

[xxoticangel]

We also have "fuck buddies" that we only see at the club and have never exchanged phone numbers with but see them on a regular basis. We have noticed that these types are usually very busy people or professionals that don't have the time or energy to become friends.

This describes us to a "T". We both work and have 4 children living at home. Doing what I do I also work weekends when most couples are available to play. For us to go out on a Friday or Saturday night we have to arrange childcare for 3 children and I have to take a vacation day or two. We don't have time to develop a friendship first then see what happens. We make it know that if we are going to make the arrangements to meet with someone there is a good possibility of having sex with them/him/her. We also reserve and give them the right to say "NO" without any hard feelings just in case things don't work out at during the meeting.

Her husband asked her why they were having such a difficult time, her answer was that it was her, she was not going to fuck someone that did not meet her standards in looks, her standards being her husband. She compares every man of every couple they talk to, to her husband and finds faults with them all.

This unfortunately is my wife's attitude also. We have just spent the weekend at a lifestyle friendly nude resort with the attitude of hooking up with someone. Since she showed no interest in anyone there I asked what she was looking for. Seems that every guy there was too something (fat,skinny,tall,hairy,big,small). Her ideal couple is my twin that is married to a BBW with acne. Also, despite being a former model, she felt threatened by every girl there. I'll be the first to admit that my standards are slightly high but out of the 50 or so couples at the resort there were still 4 or 5 couples that I think would have been fun.
To answer the question, I think.
We meet most of our playmates at on-premisis clubs. We get hot and horny, start playing around and if someone wants to join in that is not repulsive we let them. A few have become friends but most we never see again.