Naive Questions Welcomed

[Elusive BiFem]

The chat topic last night sort of disintegrated into the "Education of EBF." It's true...there are lot's of things I don't know about even at this late stage in life. Lack of worldly experience? I guess. Whatever. The fact remains, I don't know certain things although I've learned more in almost 2 years on this board then I have in all the preceding years of my life. or And in my association with WR. (She's a great educator! Answers my questions with minimal harassment. )

So...my education last night consisted of learning what a lap dance is. And no, I've never seen one and had never heard the expression until reading about it here. And BMSD...I didn't really know what that is. Not really.

Are others naive about some things? If so, here is the place to ask your questions about things you see or hear. And no fair making fun of someone that is asking something. OK?
- EBF

I came back to this comment. Part of the difficulty in asking something - at least for me - is that I feel sort of foolish. Not foolish because I don't know the answer, but most would assume that just simply being here for all this time, I would know. But sometimes I don't. Sorta like when I took my statistics course. Six weeks into it, I finally gave up, raised my hand, and with great humiliation, asked, "Exactly what does that little squiggly thing mean? Somebody explain that squiggly thing to me! I think I'd understand this better if I knew what that meant." The little squiggly thing was on page 1 of the book, so I was having to admit that I didn't understand anything from page 1 forward. But you know, after I understood that squiggly thing, statistics was far easier to comprehend.

[HotCoupleGnS]

OK, I don't understand the whole BDSM thing. What does that stand for? What is the point? Is it all about being mean & rough? Thats about all I have seen on the movies & TV. Do you only do it during sex or is this something that goes on all the time?

[Elusive BiFem]

Thank you for asking, HotCouple. Confirms that I'm not the only one that doesn't know some of this stuff and makes me feel a whole lot better.

It was explained to me last night, but I'll wait for someone else to answer since I'm a "new learner." - EBF

[JustAskJulie]

Actually it's BDSM which stands for Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism and pretty much refers to the whole realm all of the above. Typically it is completely seperate from sex, although sex can be incorporated into it. It's really about control of a person or allowing another person to control you. The sadism/ masochism side is where the pain comes in.

[Miss_Piggy]

It's funny. I didn't even know that I didn't know what BDSM stands for. I never actually questioned it.

[HotCoupleGnS]

Does anyone know of a good site that I can read about it?

[leftcoastcouple]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Thank you for asking, HotCouple. Confirms that I'm not the only one that doesn't know some of this stuff and makes me feel a whole lot better.

Hah! Far from it, EBF!

When I first wandered over here last summer, it was to seek refuge and attempt to educate myself (and my wife) after being overwhelmed, intimidated and confused by all the acronyms and slang on AFF and other such sites. Fortunately, I found a wealth of info here that was only a search away. And, of course, the dictionary Julie's put together.

I still have bookmarks to several acronym sites that I refer to from time to time, including these two, for times when I'm not on this site or AFF (which has a huge dictionary/glossary as well):

http://www.datingzones.com/datingacronyms.html

http://www.amazoncastle.com/loveonline/acronyms.shtml

I've expanded my vocabulary significantly in the past year, but I still stumble upon words and acronyms with which I'm not familiar. It's one more reason I'm thankful for this friendly and humble community where no one's going to rip you for asking a "stupid" question!

Cheers to you all, and have a great Fourth!

[TxCouple98]

We have some experience in BDSM, and it can be interesting. My sister and a few of my friends are into this more as a lifestyle. It does have the kinky sex part to it, but as it was said it is more about control. That is of giving up your control to another person. It can be in the bedroom, to every day life tasks. A good link to a lot of basic info is cuffs.com there are also a ton of books on the topic. A lot of larger cities have clubs and monthly meetings.

[Randalls_angel]

Originally Posted by HotCoupleGnS

Does anyone know of a good site that I can read about it?

Howdy Folks,
Yes, there are tons of sites out there on BDSM. Cuffs.com was mentioned, you can also try CastleRealm.com, DifferentLoving.com, or just type BDSM into any search engine and your going to get over 1000 hits every time.
It's funny when our friends turned us onto this site they said, "There are some BDSM topics floating around you might want to get in on." They were certainly right about that!
BDSM does stand for Bondage Discipline Sadism (or submission or slavery) Masachism (or Master). But what does it truly mean? A whole lot of things to a whole lot of people. You'd be surprised what a sub-culture of BDSM practitioners you would find in every community if they all flew a black leather flag outside their door every morning. There are as many definitions of BDSM as there are definitions of swinging. Each individual or couple involved in the lifestyle must define it for themselves. But as an overview, BDSM is a power exchange. As someone else mentioned (sorry, I'm awful with names) in a previous post, it can run from bedroom, tie me up and spank me softly games, to full time, the Dominant is in control and the submissive gives up control in every day life stuff.
The key tenets of BDSM are often referred to as SSC, which stands for Safe, Sane and Consensual. Much like swinging, BDSMers have a set of "rules" if you will, that they adhere to religiously. Safe-anything done in the context of BDSM must not permanently harm anyone physically or emotionally. Does that mean pain's not involved? Hell No! Pain is good!! (That being a submissive's viewpoint, mind you.) Sane-obviously sane for one might not be for another, but quite honestly, if you're into fire-play, catching your partner on fire is not too sane! Consensual-ah, here is the real key. It's important for anyone first looking at BDSM to distinguish it from abuse. They are far removed and consent is the reason. A submissive GIVES control to the Dominant. The Dominant accepts control...he/she does NOT take it! Communication is everything, as it is in swinging. There must be a constant flow of communication in both directions for a D/s (short for Domination and submission) relationship to work. There is much negotiation and experimentation in the beginning. "Let's try this." And when it's over, "What did you like?" "What did you hate?" "Can we do it differently, slower, faster, harder, softer...etc?"
I could write a book here and still only scratch the surface. Oh wait, maybe this is beginning to look like a book!
But, now living a basically 24/7 D/s life I think I have a few answers. Not all of them by any means because we are still relatively new to this lifestyle. I know people who have been into BDSM for 20 or 30 years. They would be much more qualified to answer some questions. But I can point you in the right direction, or help you find answers to questions you might have! I'm always willing to make new friends and what a better way to do it than being helpful! Must be the submissive in me, huh?
Happy Saturday,
angel

[Elusive BiFem]

Thanks, Angel, for taking the time to explain some of this. And in TxCouples thread, you said you would answer some questions... So here I go...

Can you explain to me why anyone would choose this lifestyle? What do you get out of it - especially being submissive? Obviously, I ask from the context of my own way of looking at things, or functioning - that sort of thing.

A submissive GIVES control to the Dominant.

What does a submissive get out of giving control to someone else? I can't imagine being submissive, but on the other hand, I have no desire to be dominant. I enjoy an equal relationship in all parameters, so to speak. When I think of giving up control, and especially on a 24/7 basis, that comes across to me as being almost a form of abuse although you were clear on the fact that a D/S relationship is not an abusive one with your emphasis on GIVING control. Maybe it has to do with certain personality types? And as for the dominant person, again, I have difficulty understanding and separating from a form of abuse anyone that might be into wanting and/or taking control of another.

I mentioned personalilty types, and perhaps I have the type of personality that will never allow me to understand this, but I do appreciate your previous post and any answers you can provide here.

Thanks! - EBF

[DandS]

Good Question EBF, I was wondering the same thing.

Oh and btw, I've never seen or had a lap dance either!

D

[Randalls_angel]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Thanks, Angel, for taking the time to explain some of this. And in TxCouples thread, you said you would answer some questions... So here I go...

No problem, EBF. BDSM is something near and dear to my heart, so I enjoy helping others learn more about it. The more we know about something the less likely we are to assume things about those who enjoy it.


Can you explain to me why anyone would choose this lifestyle? What do you get out of it - especially being submissive?

Wow, what an age old question, and one I've asked myself many times! It's not something that is easy to put into words, but I will try. There is a real sense of security in being submissive. I know my Dominant will take care of me. Make sure I'm safe and healthy both physically and emotionally. Sure, there are times I say to myself, "This is ridiculous...I don't want to do what he says today!" But in all honesty, I love his firm control. When I get home in the evening to find a list of things he wants done I don't have to think about how to prioritize my evening. He's already done that. I'm not trying to say being a submissive is always easy, cuz it's not, but there is a certain sense of satisfaction knowing that when he gets home late at night his life is going to be organized the way he wants it. There is a feeling of freedom in being submissive! An oxymoronic statement, to be sure, but the truth none the less. When I go to bed at night and buckle on my cuffs (yes, I sleep in hand cuffs most nights) I know I'm loved, secure, protected and controlled.

What does a submissive get out of giving control to someone else?

When I think of giving up control, and especially on a 24/7 basis, that comes across to me as being almost a form of abuse although you were clear on the fact that a D/S relationship is not an abusive one with your emphasis on GIVING control. Maybe it has to do with certain personality types? And as for the dominant person, again, I have difficulty understanding and separating from a form of abuse anyone that might be into wanting and/or taking control of another.

This lifestyle is not for everyone by any means. Having spoken to many submissives over the last few years I hear a recurring theme...this is something I NEED. I fantasized about being controlled way before I had any clue what BDSM was. I love being tied up and flogged or spanked. I love kneeling at his feet waiting to hear what it is he wants of me. I love waiting on him...getting him something to drink or eat, getting something he needs or wants, tending to his sexual desires. I'm not sure I will ever be able to explain it to someone who does not have the desire to submit...but it is something within myself that can't be denied. I think you're right in saying it is a personality type.
The same is true of many Dominants. You've met the type...they are the ones everyone looks towards for guidance in a group. The one who can make a quick decision that seems to make a whole lot of sense after they say it, but no one else thought about before. My Sir has always, in every job he's held since we met, moved quickly to some sort of management position. Why? Cuz he's good at controlling people. And he has a gift for doing it in a way that you don't feel he's imposing his will on you...he just makes sense and you want to do what he wants you to do cuz it makes you both happy!

I hope that helps a little. Speaking of control and BDSM I was just informed it's time to hit the road so I have to sign off now....but keep the questions coming. You're making me think of some things I haven't thought about in a while, and some introspection is good for the soul!!

Hugs,
angel

[Elusive BiFem]

Again, thank you Angel, for your well thought out responses. This is so much better - having someone that actually lives the lifestyle - explain things rather than just reading about it on some web page.

I'm not sure I will ever be able to explain it to someone who does not have the desire to submit...

That is a true statement of so many things. Few (dare I say any) that don't live a particular lifestyle can truly understand that of others. What immediately came to mind when I read this was how it is impossible for one race to have a full understanding for how life is lived as another race, no matter how hard we may attempt that understanding.

I definitely think it is a personality type, but of course, that holds true with every aspect of our lives. Some like green and some like red. Some like vegetables while others thrive on meat. But it is easier to accept others choices when there is some level of understanding as to why they made those choices and what it is they derive from those choices.

And yes, I would say that I have, in my lifetime, probably met more Dominants than I have Submissives, but I wonder if that isn't because they are more easily recognized. Although, perhaps, it could also be that at times I have rather strong personality characteristics myself and I'm simply attracted to others that seem similar. I'm sitting here talking to WR on the phone as I respond to this. She constantly teases me about being a little "Rottweiler," but she just brought up a good point in terms of my choice of pets as we discussed this personality aspect. My dogs are the rough and tough and tumble types. I live in a neighborhood full of little white foo-foo dogs, but they hold no interest for me. They're cute, but they're cute for someone else. Not me.

Now, another question, if you will. You commented that you sleep in cuffs. Why? Are you talking about your hands cuffed to the bed or cuffed to each other? And as silly as it may seem, what happens if you have to get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night? You mentioned buckling the cuffs, but are they then locked with a key? If so, do you have access to the key? Part of the reason I ask is thinking in terms of safety. As in fire or something like that.

WR was wondering...does this relationship involve punishment to you if you have displeased your Dominant person? If so, in what form does the punishment occur? (I don't know why she is making me do the asking. )

My question...do you feel comfortable offering your opinions on different subjects or giving suggestions? That sort of thing? What I picture is a relationship in which the submissive person has no input. Again...just my uninformed perception although, from what you have written, I suppose that could be aspects of a D/S relationship for some but not all.

- EBF

[Randalls_angel]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

And yes, I would say that I have, in my lifetime, probably met more Dominants than I have Submissives, but I wonder if that isn't because they are more easily recognized.

hiya again EBF--First let me tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread. I guess we are with other D/s couples or totally vanilla couples now that I don't really think about these things as often as I did when we first started in this lifestyle.

I bet you'd be surprised how many submissives you meet in your every day life, too. They are the ones who let you go first in line at the grocery store becuase you only have 3 items and they have a whole dozen! They are the ones at work who will offer to help you meet a deadline even if it puts their own work a little behind. They are the ones that you see waiting on everyone at a party...whether it's their party or not!

Now, I don't want to give the impression that all submissives are doormats just standing around waiting for someone to tell them what to do because that is definitely not the case! Many, many submissives hold high pressure jobs where they make split second decisions constantly. They may be custodial parents who are constantly baraged by kids needing decisions NOW, and they can handle all that very well. But when it comes to their relationship with their Dominant, it's so nice to just let go and let them make the decisions.

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Now, another question, if you will. You commented that you sleep in cuffs. Why? Are you talking about your hands cuffed to the bed or cuffed to each other? And as silly as it may seem, what happens if you have to get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night? You mentioned buckling the cuffs, but are they then locked with a key? If so, do you have access to the key? Part of the reason I ask is thinking in terms of safety. As in fire or something like that.

WR was wondering...does this relationship involve punishment to you if you have displeased your Dominant person? If so, in what form does the punishment occur? (I don't know why she is making me do the asking. )

My question...do you feel comfortable offering your opinions on different subjects or giving suggestions? That sort of thing? What I picture is a relationship in which the submissive person has no input. Again...just my uninformed perception although, from what you have written, I suppose that could be aspects of a D/S relationship for some but not all.

- EBF

Ok, all of this is rather interrelated, so let me see if I can hit it point by point. I do sleep in cuffs most nights. They buckle on and the ones I sleep in do not lock. We do own a couple of other pairs of cuffs that can be locked on, but those would never be put on if I was to be alone at all. The sleeping cuffs are hooked to each other, but I can get them off in about 20 seconds. Yep, this is a safety (and necessary) issue. I'm sure my Sir would not like being woke up at 3:30 am cuz I had to pee! The safety issue is an important one.
Everyone I've ever met in the BDSM lifestyle has what is commonly referred to as "safe words." It is a word, or some times more than one, which stops everything in its tracks. No matter what is going on it stops and the Dominant finds out what the problem is. For example, Sir and I use "yellow" and "red" as safe words. They are pretty universal safe words. Lots of people use the same ones but it really doesn't matter what the safe words are, as long as the submissive and Dominant both know and agree on them. In our case, yellow means something is wrong. If, during a play scene (ie, bondage, flogging, what have you) I say yellow, he immediately stops and asks what the problem is. It could be as simple as a rope pinching me and cutting off circulation or I have a cramp in a muscle that is causing undue pain. In a case like this, he would rectify the situation, make sure I was physically safe, and continue where he left off. If I were to say "red" then the scene ends, I'm unbound, or whatever, and we discuss what was happening. As two people venture through the beginning stages I think safe words are used more often. As a Dominant begins to know their sub they can usually read the body language to know if they are doing ok or things need to change. Limits are learned, etc., so safe words are used less...but they are always in place.
Also, on safety issues, a person in bondage should never, EVER be left alone, not even for a couple of minutes. A person who is gagged should have an alternate method of stopping a scene in case of emergency. In our case I hold a small ball and if I need to stop I drop it. And a Dominant should never use any device on a submissive until they are damned good and sure they know what they are doing. Many implements common in D/s relationships could be damaging in uneducated hands.
*grins at MR's question and the fact that EBF asked it!* Sounds like MR might have some Dominant tendencies!
To answer the question...umm, yes. I do get punished. With us punishment is seldom physically painful. We both prefer me to be in pain for pleasure rather than punishment. But he has been known to spank me, not usually hard, but enough to humiliate slightly. It usually depends on the offense in question, but one of his favorites is orgasm denial. I love to masturbate before I go to sleep (he doesn't get home from work until I've been in bed for a couple of hours) so he will deny me that form of relaxation. And it's funny, but if it's not allowed, damn do I get horny! He tends towards more juvenile forms of punishment...probably because they work! I really don't like them much. Standing in a corner, writing sentences, withdrawl of priveledges...those things all work with me. Also, he has had me write a short essay type letter explaining what I did, what my motivation was, and an apology for doing it! One note on punishment is that it is never meted out for doing something that displeases him if I did not know before hand that it would displease him. In other words, I only get punished for rules I'm aware of!
Last but maybe most important is whether I feel I can offer opinions, suggestions and have input in our relationship. Here is where D/s differs from abuse. Yes, I feel totally free to offer my input on any matter that effects us as a couple. I do it respectfully, but you're darned tootin' I do it. His may be the final say, but he always listens to me and takes into consideration what I have to say. That includes things such as finances, house matters, and personal matters. He respects me as much as I respect him. I am no less important in our relationship just because I'm submissive. This is one of those things you just "know" on a gut level and it's hard to put into words...but it's there. For example, he knows I hate eating at buffet restaraunts, so when we go out to eat, he picks the restaraunt, but he doesn't pick buffets! If he is considering a large purchase we discuss it thoroughly before (or if) it's made. This is true of most D/s couples I have met, too. They are still partners in life, just the make up of the partnership changes a bit. The communication in a D/s realtionship, or any other alternative lifestyle, including swinging, is a must!
Keep the questions coming, this is fun!!
~angel~

[TNT]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Again, thank you Angel, for your well thought out responses. This is so much better - having someone that actually lives the lifestyle - explain things rather than just reading about it on some web page.

Dito

Your posts are extremely interesting and informative. Thank you so much. I have done some very minor research on this and find it fascinating. I have a friend that is into D/s and he has tried to explain it to me a time or two but with every question he answered it just made me think of a hundered more. Please keep trying to educate us on this and once I think of a specific question I will definitely ask.

Teresa