Jem

Size definitely matters to me...but not in the way most guys think. My honey is no bigger than average. However, I think this is *great*. There is one time and ONE time only when I like a large one (and even then, not *too* large). That is the woman on top position. I admit, a large one can feel VERY nice in that one position. Nicer than a small or average one in fact. However, it just plain HURTS me any other way. So whenever my honey feels down about his size, I just say "Okay. You could be huge and I could be loving the woman on top sex. But then you would never get to be on top. You would never get to have it doggy style. And you would DEFINITELY never get to have anal sex!" That makes him pretty happy about his size pretty quickly. Yeah, he sometimes gets bummed that other (bigger) guys can make the woman on top position feel better to me. But those other guys never get to do so MANY other things that he gets to do with me because they are just too big!

I tend to agree with CanadianCouple and Liza about the age differences thing. Just posted a reply to the "young couples" thread on the New Swingers board actually. I'll repost it here: "As someone said on another board, I think a lot of it may have to do with the parents/children thing. I am in my late 20's. My parents are in their 50's. I have no problem with older couples in their 30's or 40's, but when they start getting into my parents' age range, it gets kinda creepy to me. NOT because I don't find them attractive physically or because I find them less worthy. In fact, there was one man a year or 2 older than my dad who I thought was VERY hot. But he *talked* just like my dad. He thought in many of the same ways as my dad. He wore the same types of clothes as my dad, etc. etc. It ended up being just too creepy for me. I think it may work the same in reverse. A couple in their late 40's, or in their 50's or 60's might have children the same age as us. While they may find us physically hot (as I found the guy my dad's age), the fact that we talk the way their children talk, dress the way their children dress, etc. may also just creep them out too much. Which I understand."

Thanks for the replies so far! It is interesting to me to see what everyone else's peeves are. I would have to agree that just about everything people are listing is definitely irritating! Though Liza, I have the opposite problem as you with roughness...since I'm into lite BDSM, I rarely find people who are rough ENOUGH to suit my ultimate fantasies...though, of course, even so, it's still fun even if they don't like to be quite as rough as I would like. :-) And I haven't met too many people not willing to practice safe sex (though I have met a few), but maybe CuteCouple has a different definition of it than I/we do. Anyway, looking forward to hearing from anyone else who has "lifestyle" irritations.

Well, I had left my last question off my first poll for fear of starting more controversy, but enough people have asked about it, so here goes... What are your two LEAST favorite things about swinging/the swinging community? Mine would be 1) the double standard that exists for female vs. male bisexuality. In turns (and sometimes all at the same time!) it baffles me, saddens me, and angers me. 2) People who are liars/disrespectful. I realize that people are liars and disrespectful everywhere, but they really piss me off in swinging! Such as: people who are cheaters, people who lie about their preferences to get with you (ie, "oh we want an ongoing thing too!" when all they want is a one-nighter), etc. etc. Disrespectful would include people who KNOW your preferences/limits and STILL try to push you past them and/or not honor them. It astounds me how many people think it's okay to lie in order to get laid. So, if anyone's read my other posts, they probably already know how these things push my buttons. :-) But I am curious to know what everyone else's hot button topics are.

The "big deal" is that you LIED. Where ever were you raised that you were taught that it was okay to lie to people in order to get what you want from them? I am not saying I have never told a lie. In fact, I think some lies are okay. If someone says, "Do I look beautiful?" but they don't AND there is nothing they could do that would improve their looks at that time, yes, by all means lie to make them feel good. If someone is going to die unless you lie about something, go ahead and lie. But to lie because you, in your words, "wanted to fuck her"? How very sleazy. How very rude. How very pathetic. The only worse lies I can think of offhand would be to tell someone you love them when you don't just to get them in bed. Or to tell someone you are faithful to them when you are not. You know, maybe if you had come right out and said "hey, I'm straight" they would have been okay with that! And you still could have "fucked her." Maybe they would have found that they liked you enough that it didn't MATTER that you were straight. Hey, I am bi, and while I certainly prefer swinging with other bi-women, I have swung with couples where the woman was straight! And admitted that she was straight beforehand! We just thought they were so cool that it DIDN'T MATTER if I got to play with the woman or not. But we deserved to have them be honest with us UPFRONT and tell us she was straight, not try to lie and say she was bi just so they might have a shot at us. Because they were honest and cool, they will get to swing with us in the future even though she's not bi! Maybe the couple you are talking about would have also decided that they wanted to swing with you anyway, even if you had told them upfront you were straight. Then again, maybe they wouldn't have. And then, no, you wouldn't have gotten to "fuck the hot wife." But at least you would have been honest. If we EVER found out someone had lied to us like that, not only would we NEVER swing with them again, we would also make SURE to inform ANY other swingers we knew to avoid them, as they were lying scum. Do I sound pissed off? I'm sure I do. Swinging is supposed to be about openess and HONEST COMMUNICATION. You struck out there.

That is pretty much what we have agreed to CindyB, as far as the possibility of me getting pregnant is concerned. Where we have not figured out what we would do is if my honey got another woman pregnant. That would be much trickier, I think...what if she tried to go after him and make him be a father to the child? Even if she had said beforehand that she wouldn't? This possibility is what scares us. It scares us so much, in fact, that he has not yet had intercourse with another woman when we swing (I have with another man though). Since your agreement with your hubby about the possibility of you getting pregnant is so much like ours, we were just wondering what you have talked about in the case of him getting another woman pregnant.

A post on one of the other boards got me curious... I know many couples on here do not do full swap, but for those that do... Do you have any agreements on pregnancy? I realize that many/most couples that full swap are either surgically sterile or use birth control religiously. However, birth control is not 100% effective. For that matter, neither is surgical sterilization. It's very rare, but it IS possible to become pregnant while using the pill, Norplant, Depo, etc. correctly. Even rarer, but still possible is becoming pregant after a tubal or impregnating someone after a vasectomy. So for those full-swap couples, do you have any agreements on what would happen should the unthinkable happen and the woman get pregnant by another man? Or should the man impregnate another woman? Our agreement is that if I am pregnant it is my honey's child. No questions. However, things get a little murkier when thinking about the possibility of him impregnating someone else. What if she didn't agree that it was her husband's child? What if she pressed for a paternity test, etc.? It is something that makes us nervous to think of. YES, we practice safe sex, but what if? When there is still the possibility that a woman who's had a tubal could get pregant...I realize surgical sterilization is about 99.9% effective, but what if you hit that .01% it is not effective for? Anyway, just something we think about. Was wondering if any other full-swap couples had thoughts on the subject, or plans of what to do if the unthinkable happened to them.

I agree entirely. I'm sure I could walk into just about any bar or swing club on earth and find a bunch of guys who would love to "gangbang" me right then and there. HOWEVER, since that is entirely NOT what I'm looking for, I still have problems finding quality single men. I think one of my/our biggest problems is that we are looking for an ongoing thing with someone (preferably multiple someones!), not just a one-night-stand. And while there are single guys galore out there, there are not NEARLY so many who both meet our other criteria AND want ongoing friendship and play with us. Many just seem to want quick one-time sex.

Julie, I completely agree about screening the single guys as well. I already stated how I hate the discrimination against single men I find in many places, but I also hate *idiot* single men. I LOVE single men....*quality* single men. Single men who find me PERSONALLY attractive. Who want to get to know me. Who will take their time, flirting with me and seducing me. That is my personal definition of a quality single man. They do seem hard to find, but I know from personal experience that there are some out there. I know some people are looking for single men for fast and furious gangbang type things. Hey, if that's what they want, great! But that is so NOT what I want! To each their own though....but when single men complain to me about not being wanted in the lifestyle, I have to wonder if they are the type who goes up to people and says "hey, wanna f*ck?" The type that just walks up out of nowhere and grabs your ass or boobs. The type who acts as though because you are a swinger, you should strip down and jump on them the minute they approach you. The type who would probably treat a $25 hooker better than they treat you. Etc. etc. Yup, as far as I am concerned anyway, THOSE type of single men are not allowed in *my* world of swinging. Someone may want them, but not me. But the considerate, flirty single man? Who makes you feel desired as an *individual*? Who wants to get to know you, and not just have a one night slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am? Who is as concerned with your pleasure as with his own? Oh, THOSE single men can call me ANY time!!! :-)

I have also frequently wondered about the bias against single males. MANY of the clubs do not allow single males, or only allow them on certain nights. Now, it is very true what danc694u said...there are many more single men interested than there are single women. However, a quota system would seem to work well for me...as in, a club could let in one single man for every so many couples they let in. This way, the club would not be overrun by single men, yet they would not be being discriminatory. I know some clubs do this, but FAR too many ban single men outright. We have not yet attended a club. But I will NEVER knowningly attend a club that bans single men WHILE ALLOWING SINGLE WOMEN. If a club wants to be couples-only, that is fine. But the minute they start letting in single women, they better also admit single men (*within a reasonable quota*) or I will not go there ever. I think it is an especially large annoyance point with me, because my fave thing ever would be a MFM threesome. Or a MMMF foursome. If a club bans single men, they largely cut off my possibilities for that, and are not taking into consideration MY wants. At the same time, I understand that most couples would not feel comfortable at a club that had 4 couples and 50 single men at it (though I would love it!). That would be messing with THEIR wants. That's why I think a quota system would be the best solution. As for the "well-endowed" thing...yes, I realize that some women are very into that. I am not. There is ONE position in which I like it. Other than that, it is just painful, which therefore cuts off a lot of possibilities for me! I would by FAR prefer an average sized guy! And I do not believe swinging is "driven by male fantasies." Yes, most of the couples that *I* personally know got into it at first by the suggestion of the male. But what KEPT them into it was the female! I know that in our couple, he suggested it. I thought he was CRAZY at first! :-) When I FINALLY tried it though (a year at least after his suggestion) I loved it way more than him...not that he didn't like it, but he's not into it on the level I am now! I think this happens with a lot of couples...at least the ones I know about.

I too think this topic has been beat about to death, so am not going to say much more, but I must tell Dan... At no time did I say, or mean to imply, that there was ANYTHING wrong with you or anyone else being straight. Again, I believe that you are the sexuality that you are. I would never seek to "change" anyone's sexuality either. I just had issues with bi people being categorized as being somewhat unnatural, that's all.

Hey SharperEdge-- I agree that guy you were messaging with was a total ass. However, he was not an ass because he was bi! He was an ass for not respecting your wants. I like a LOT of flirting, "seducing," etc. before I play. We talked with this guy via email before we met and TOLD him that's what we liked. He did none of it, and then ALL NIGHT proceeded to ask things like "So when we gonna fuck?" When I made it clear I was NOT interested, he hounded me with "but you are a swinger!" "what is your problem?" etc. etc. ad nauseum. He would not leave until we threatened to call the police. Was he an ass because he was straight? Because he was a single guy? I think not...I think he was an ass because he was an ass!!

Well, Connie, to me the simplest definition of "homophobe" is someone who believes that anyone who is not straight is less than, just because they are not straight. A lesser person, a less good person, a less natural person, a less worthy person, etc. So this is why I think the posts about the "natural" way being men pursuing women and vice versa come across as being homophobic. It is implying that people who are bi or gay are less natural than people who are straight. And if natural is taken to mean "good" it is also implying that they are not as good as straight people.

Originally posted by stratecpl: "Jem...Why do I proclaim it so often? Because this is unfortunantly the only place I have to vent about it. The people I mentioned in another post who call me homophobic are the ones who contact us and give us the problems that we talk about...they try to talk us into it, we decline they call us homophobes." These people you talk about are jerks, plain and simple. I would never DREAM of calling someone names because they didn't want to have sex with me. (whether they were male or female). However, it still stands that when you paint ALL people who are not 100% straight with the same brush (such as implying it is not natural) you do come across as somewhat insulting to the many people out there who are bi (to any extent) or gay.

In my post above, I forgot to add...to the person who equated bisexuality with incest (I forget who it was)...someone else asked this question and you never answered...do you honestly find the idea of being with another man just as repulsive as the idea of being with your mother? Or your daughter if you have one? If so, I guess that is your right. However, I am willing to bet that while no 100% straight person would really want to be with someone else of the same sex, for most it would still be a whole lot more appealing than sleeping with their mom, dad, or child!! For example, the thought of having anal sex with a hairy, smelly guy who calls me a bitch a lot and has a painfully large cock REALLY grosses me out. But it's certainly not on the level that the thought of having sex with my father or mother or my son grosses me out!!