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borrowlend

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About borrowlend

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    Georgia
  1. I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree on the majority opinion on Dr. Phil. I'm not a regular viewer of his show but I have seen it from time to time. And I have to say that he's generally on the right track in counceling people with problems. Dr. P seems to take a no-nonsense, straightforward approach to people; I notice a similar approach by Dr. Joy Brown--she's on AM radio (and she's actually better at it than Phil, come to think of it). Anyway, many people have problems and issues because they get stuck in a certain mindset and it takes a stern rebuke to jolt them into changing. Sure, this can come across as rude and arrogant (although it usually doesn't need to), but it can be effective. I can't recall specific shows I watched except one in which a twenty-something guy was in a rut. He "couldn't get a job" and played video games all day long while the bills mounted. Dr. P just went right at him, asking him to explain why he couldn't get a job. There were no adequate answers to justify his inaction, and Phil's relentless approach forced the guy to awknowledge this fact. Then he gave him some very commonsense steps to take to get back on track. I don't know if it worked but if the guy did as he was instructed he must've gotten unstuck. On the other hand, I do find Phil to have a tendency towards counceling husbands to be too submissive. I think that is dead wrong and that a man and woman can maintain equality in their relationship without having to neuter the man. Also, obviously, I think he's wrong in flatly criticizing swinging. I agree with earlier posts that pointed out that councelers see people with problems-so their only exposure to swinging is through the experiences of troubled couples. I personally believe that swinging is the perfect solution to the problems of infidelity and the 4-year and 7-year "itch." Face it, we are biologically programmed to desire and seek out a variety of sexual partners. Restricting sexual activity to committed, loving relationships essentially forces people to deny themselves a part of their inherent nature. This is not to say that we must succumb to our every biological imperative--ultimately that would spell disaster. But a mutually secure couple can satisfy that occasional craving without damaging, but rather, enhancing their relationship. For those that can accomodate this aspect of their nature, why not do so? soapbox (Here I go pontificating off-topic!) I've always been annoyed with the notion that you can only find your S/O attractive and be interested in sex with them only. For most people, that is simply not true. There are 2 seeds of my interest in swinging, I think. 1. Reading "The Anatomy of Love" by Helen Fisher. I highly recommend this anthropological study of the evolutionary pressures that have resulted in the nature of human sexuality. It is written to be accessable to the general reading public, fear not. At the time it left me feeling a bit in dispair--because the evidence strongly suggests that sexual interest in others is inevitable, thus making couples have to exercise increasingly difficult self-denial, or commit adultery, or get divorced. 2. A few years later, a friend described his relationship with his girlfriend and mentioned that they both awknowledged to one another that they find other people attractive...what a revelation! To think that a man and woman could actually admit to each other this seemingly obvious but typically denied truth. There was no mention of swinging at that time (I have no reason to believe that they did that). In fact, back then swinging only existed on the periphery of my consciousness, as something that some very few people engaged in. But ultimately, that conversation in union with my understanding of human sexuality led me to swinging. People often call the Joy Brown radio show with this problem: "I've cheated on my spouse and I ended the affair but I can't live with this guilt. Should I tell my husband/wife?" And her answer is always, "no." Right or wrong, her view is that the only purpose a confession would serve would be to relieve your own guilt--at the expense of your s/o's feelings. Here's the relevant point, though: during one of these calls, she explained that psychiatrists have found that infidelity (when it doesn't blow up in your face) actually enhances a couple's sex life. I haven't investigated these studies but I can think of a few reasons why this is the case, as I'm sure most here can too. So, we naturally are attracted to people other than our s/os, our society makes such admissions taboo, and sex outside of relationships enhances the sex within relationships. Conclusion: swinging. I have to wonder if Dr. Phil is out of step with his peers on this issue. Maybe not, but one wonders if eventually swinging will be officially recognized as a psycologically healthy form of relationship, perhaps in the same way that homosexuality was eventually removed from the list of mental disorders many years ago. By the way, speaking of Oprah's swinging episode, didn't you just love that look of horrified but intense intrigue that she and the audience had? Priceless!
  2. We've been pretty fortunate in avoiding games, mostly. So far we've emailed/chatted with dozens of couples and went out on about 10 first meets. Some pretty good ways to weed out the fakes: 1. In chatting, do they ask the right questions, i.e.: how long have you been swinging, why did you start swinging (I notice veteran swingers tend to ask this), what kind of experiences have you had so far? 2. Do they have good answers to these question when you ask them? (The very first couple we met couldn't really answer this and it turned out the wife knew about it but was clearly trying to please her disinterested husband--she had no real interest in swinging). 3. ALWAYS talk to both the male and female on the phone before meeting (I think this was mentioned already). I agree with the above posts that said alot of "games" are people trying not to hurt the other couple's feelings. We almost got stuck in playing that with one couple: we met them, decided they were definitely not right for us and that we'd have to say no. But when we chatted with them later, they invited us to go out again the next weekend and my girl started to play the old "we'd love to but I'm working that night" game!!! The next day we had to fess up and explain that we made a mistake in leading them on and that we really weren't interested. It feels awful to reject someone but if more people would be upfront about it, at least we'd waste less time on fruitless endeavors. It would really help if people just accepted the "no, thanks" and moved on. That's what we do, because who knows (w/ 4 people involved) why it is a no-go? I like to take the blame because I'm just some guy and my girl is cute and sexy--who wouldn't want her? But some couples try to grill us about why we are not interested and the whole awkwardness thing takes on new life. We just tell them it's chemistry and leave it at that.
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