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JnCC

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  1. You realize, of course, that what that couple did that night may have been the most sexy, erotic thing that they have ever done together? It's not hard for me to imagine that even now, they think about that night when they're together, and that the memory is a continual source of arousal for them. It's also not hard for me to imagine that the experience was a sort of "jumping off point" for them, and that they went on to further adventures. Maybe not at your club (for various reasons, many couples prefer to have their first experiences away from home) but somewhere. I'm really glad that you didn't say anything overtly unpleasant to them. Knowing that it was OK to proceed at a pace that was comfortable for them, and that they wouldn't be considered freaks or pervs for wanting to explore their sexuality with other couples in close proximity, probably did more to advance the lifestyle than you realize. It's important to remember that every person who participates in an "alternative lifestyle" becomes a de facto "Ambassador" for that lifestyle. What you say and how you treat people, especially new people, has a lot to do with how they regard this lifestyle and whether or not they'll ever come back. You handled this situation with a lot of class. Thanks...
  2. To anybody who thinks it's OK to say to a couple, "We like you, but not you. Would you mind asking your partner to wait outside while we played with just you?" I have just one question... What do you do when you're only attracted to 1/4 of the couple? For example, what if the woman has a great body, but a face that would send a freight train up a dirt road, and you don't like the guy at all? What do you do then? Would you say, "We like you, but not you. Would you mind if he waited outside while we played with just you? And would you mind wearing a paper bag over that (pointing to her face) until we're done, because we don't find that attractive either?" My point is that you "take people as you find them." In swinging, they're usually couples, and until they indicate otherwise, should always be regarded as such. If and when one of them appproaches and says "I find you attractive" you may assume that they're offering to play alone. Until then, you should assume that they're a team, and that any attempt to interact with one absent the other will be met with disapproval.
  3. I did that a couple years ago. Twice, actually. The first time we had a problem at one club, it WAS the manager, who happens to be a single male, and who was apparently somewhat smitten with my female companion. Since he couldn't take the hint that we weren't interested in having him join us, and he was the manager, we left early. A few weeks later we went back. This time, the manager was nowhere to be seen, but one of his assistants followed us into a group area and wouldn't take the hint to leave us alone, so we asked security to intervene on our behalf. The security man laughed and did nothing, so we again left the premises. (We later learned that the "assistant" really didn't attend to club to party with his wife. Once there, they usually separated, she to "entertain" the rest of the male staff, he to jack-off on female guests clothing and beds. No wonder none of the male staff wanted to confront him.) This time, we did as you suggested, and posted both of our experiences in the "club reviews" section of another swingers website. We received several PM's saying that we were not alone in our experience, and that the same thing (with the same people) had happened to them at the club. Did our review fix the problem? No...but it DID get us kicked out of the club, The next time we arrived at the club, the manager was ready for us, with a copy of our review in his hand. He told us that if we would retract everything, including mention of the role he played in the first incident, all would be forgiven and we would be allowed to enter. If we didn't, he would ban us from the club. We came to the conclusion that if he was going to shadow us every time we attended the club, or his assistant was going to jack-off near our bed or on my companions clothes, we'd be better off elsewhere. We left, never to return. Oh well.... Later, we learned that he had pulled some strings on the other website to get our factual-but-less-than-glowing review of his club removed. So much for journalistic integrity...
  4. Maybe a better question would be.. "Are swing clubs doing everything they can to be the kinds of places that would make people want to have sex there? Or do the owners seem to be happy with fewer people actually participating, as long as they have a lot of people in attendance?" OK, that's 2 questions, I know. But look at what's happening at the clubs... People are being admitted late...long after anybody with a legitimate interest in meeting and socializing with other couples would show up. It's safe to guess why they're showing up late....they have no intention of actually getting to know anybody, much less to play. They're there to watch, period. It might cost the club owners a few bucks, but if they would start enforcing their policy on late arrivals, it would cut down on "lookie-loos" and people who are just interested in watching us "freaks" put on a sex show for their pleasure. "Limited numbers" of "select, single males?" What a fucking JOKE! How many club owners are in a financial position to turn away $500-$1,000 cash on a Saturday night just to make their club more couples- or play-friendly? The few that are lack the stones to do it. And what do they mean by 'select?" Judging from what we've seen, it means any Bozo who comes through the door who's not wearing a badge, carrying a camera, or puking his guts out. One of the local clubs we belong to has become so popular with married men and transient truck drivers that we're no longer comfortable dressing down in front of them at ANY hour. Bear in mind that my lady-friend is something of an exhibitionist and that I was a card-carrying nudist for 5 years, so it's not like we're "shy" for cripes sakes! We go, we talk to people, we shoot some pool, maybe flash a little tit, and leave. That's IT. I guess that makes US "lookie-loos" too, eh? Well, tough shit. It's not our job to provide the "adult entertainment" for every mouth-breather, social misfit, and thrill-seeker that wanders through the door. If and when we find a group and a setting in which we're comfortable proceeding further, we will. Until then...Lookie-Loo! Lookie-Loo!
  5. It's not only possible, but one of the best clubs we ever attended did precisely that...had an area where street clothes were not permitted. Lingerie for the women and nudity (or a hand carried towel) for the men was the house rule. We thought it was great, AND, we weren't worried that anybody was hiding a video camera in their lapel. In theory that works OK. By midnight, almost everybody is in the nude area anyway, and only come back to the social area to get a drink or a snack. The problem is that new couples who may not be ready to undress in front of a couple-dozen or more strangers won't go back there. The best solution I've seen is to make that area "nude only" or "no street clothes" after a certain time...11 or 12 O'clock seems to work well. That way, newbies get to check it out at their leisure, while not being a distraction later on when the hard-core couples get to crankin'. Another problem is that most clubs have either become dependent on the income that single males bring in, or cannot bring themselves to operate without it. Virtually every club in our area is hanging on by a thread, financially. There have been several closings and changes of ownership in the last year. I think if you were to restrict single males to the "social" areas (which of course would be empty after midnight) they would soon stop paying the 50-60 dollar door charges for the "privilege" of playing pool with a bunch of other lonely, single guys in those areas. If you let them in, the couples don't come back. The current situation is one that the clubs brought upon themselves. Single guys, and apparently to a lesser-but-growing extent, young, "lookie-loo couples," have become to most clubs what dope is to an addict...a necessary evil.
  6. That reminds me of the first night we actually did a full-swap with another couple. It was at a club, and the experience was pretty satisfying for all involved. We slept over with them at the club, with plans to join them for breakfast the next morning at a popular, nearby restaurant. As we walked out to the parking lot that morning, the male-half of the other couple spied my recently-purchased Corvette...a "post-divorce, mid-life-crises" present to myself. He hollered out, "You didn't tell us you had a Corvette! I LOVE Corvettes! I've wanted one ever since I was a kid!" (They were in their late 20's/early 30's at the time... still kids, as far as we were concerned) I tossed him the keys and said "Here ya go, buddy. You've already had my girlfriend, you might as well take my car, too. See ya at the restaurant in an hour...it'll take us that long to get a table." I guess they liked the car, because about a year later, they bought one of their own. We wound up joining the same Corvette club, and taking several road-trip/sex-camp vacations with them. I'm sure the fact that we always shared a room with them on the road set tongues wagging among the other club members. Maybe it's because that's how we were indoctrinated into the lifestyle, but I always thought that ideally, that's how swinging should work. "Sometimes good sex, but always good friends" with the people with whom you share your bed. Those kinds of intimate, ongoing friendships are hard to cultivate when, as a single, your goals and interests are so diverse from theirs. What kind of conversation can you possibly have with a couple, when you're planning to spend your Christmas bonus on a trip to Hedo with some bimbo you met online, and they're planning to spend theirs on a new riding lawnmower with optional mulcher attachment? Being single in a largely-couples world isn't all bad, but it does set forth certain challenges. Being a single male in a couples swinging world is possible, but it multiplies those challenges ten-fold. Being a "single," cheating male in the swinging world is also possible, but it increases those challenges by a hundred-fold.
  7. I agree with your numbers. In fact, your percentages are about what I've observed at a swing clubs that allow single males. Of course, what we don't know is how many couples won't go to a club or party in the first place if they know that single males will be there. That's the number that's kind of hard to pin down, but I suspect that given a choice between a "couples only" private party and one which permits SM's, couples will gravitate to the "couples only" party by a large margin. Thus, the "price" that the lifestyle pays for the success of those 5-10% of single males is the disenfranchisement of a large segment of it's couples population.
  8. No questions...you covered that quite well, Thrax. Thanks! There's one other thing that makes me question the "Most couples play with single males" hypothesis, and that is the fact that single males are not permitted at any of the National conventions. You'd think that if a significant number of couples were interested in SM's, there would be at least a few permitted at those events, perhaps in a certain area or floor of the hotel. As it is, there are none...they're couples only The financial incentive to the organization hosting the convention for allowing single males would be tremendous. Assuming the normal differential in door fees were applied, a single male would pay between $1,000 and $1,500 to attend a 3-day event. I think you could easily find 50 to 100 guys who would pay that just for the privilege of running around with their dicks hanging out, hounding couples for 3 days straight. I don't see NASCA jumping on board for any of that potential 50-150 grand. If and when couples start looking for single males in any significant numbers, you'll see clubs drop the door fees for SM's and advertise prominently the fact that they're welcomed to the club, not "hidden in the small print" as is now so often the case..
  9. If 53% of the couples listed on adult websites were truly looking for single male FB's, I'd pull my profile from Match.com and post one on AFF or SN in a heartbeat. What I'd save on drinks and dinners in one month would pay for the ad...
  10. I don't know...I think that poll, while "technically" correct, could be a little misleading. For example, had I been asked in 2002 if we "had ever considered adding a single male" I would have answered "yes." But that was a one-time situation...a confluence of alcohol, horniness (on her part), sexual exhaustion (on my part), and an attractive and interesting gentleman/drinking companion in a Key West bar. One time, in 7 years. And we never even made it back to our room. While our experience would certainly skew the poll in favor of "couples who have considered single men," as a practical matter it would have no bearing on the actual number of couples who play with single guys, or the number of single guys who might hope to get lucky in the lifestyle. And I can absolutely, positively guaran-damn-tee you that had an equally attractive interesting couple been sitting next to me at the bar, the single gentleman would have remained just that...single...at the end of the evening, for the very reasons that Alura has alluded to. Another situation... The husband of one of our lifestyle-friends gave his wife what amounted to a one-time, weekend pass to seduce a male colleague at an annual convention. (The gentleman was married, but lived in another part of the country) Within the lifestyle, this couple were adamantly against single males. Had they answered the poll, they might have answered that they "swung with single males as well as couples," but as a practical matter, nuh-huh...they were strictly a "couples-only" couple. (One might also conclude from that that if a guy is attractive enough to a woman in the lifestyle and there's little chance of getting caught, it doesn't matter if he's married. Save the flames and the discussion of semantics...I'm just saying how it went down, that's all.) Something that doesn't get talked about much is the number of couples who profess to be "interested in single males," but who really seem to be interested in little more than jerking their chains. They'll flirt and they'll flash single guys, maybe even invite a grope or two, but when it comes down to the actual deed, they'll choose another couple every time. I see it happening in the clubs, but have no reason to believe it's not going on in the websites as well. It's chicken-shit wherever it happens, but happen it does. My totally, "Just-my-opinion, Pulled-straight-from-my-Ass" estimate on the number of couples who actively solicit and follow-up with single males is not more than 5-10%. The actual percentage of strictly MFM encounters (as compared to that of MFMF encounters) may be as few as 1% on any given night.
  11. Just an observation; My ex- also came from one of those "rigid Catholic backgrounds" that you mention. However, in the context of the lifestyle, she tended to be "The Hottie" and I tended to be "The control." I think that coming from a highly restrictive moral and/or religious background creates a natural rebellion in many people, especially around mid-life (40-55). If you're able to tap into any lingering curiosity your wife has about "what she missed" while she was at Catechism, you could be in for the ride of your life.
  12. Yeah...that's pretty much true here. Couples who openly permit their partners to have sex with other people are already operating "very close to the edge," so to speak. Hence, they don't tolerate infidelity, or any behavior which smacks of infidelity (emotional or otherwise), very well. You also lose points among people who have been in stale, unsatisfying, or abusive marriages and were finally forced to leave them. Which is to say, most of us. Like many others in here, I have been where you are now. I paid dearly, both financially and emotionally, for the happiness I now enjoy as a single person. Fixing a marriage is tough, leaving one even tougher. But ultimately, I think society as a whole has more respect for somebody who does that, than for somebody who wallows in self-pity for the "sacrifices" they've made to stay in a bad marriage. I'm just curious as to why in your profile you list yourself as a "happily married guy?" You sure don't sound very happy to me...
  13. There's really not much to say. There are people who are highly active in this lifestyle, but who never really seem to "get it." There are others for whom this "clicks" even before their first experience. You sound like one of the latter. Your intro reflects an attitude about this that's as healthy and intelligent as any I've seen in a while. Stay the course, and when you guys do decide "it's time," you'll do just fine. You don't have to explain your need for "sexual variety" to anybody here. Even more importantly, you don't have to apologize for it, either. The desire for more than one sexual partner is fairly common in both males and females. In fact, it's what drives a multi-million dollar porn industry, a billion dollar divorce industry, and... this lifestyle. Once you realize that and resolve not to fall prey to it, you're able to form much more realistic (albeit somewhat unconventional) relationships with women. Judging by your description of the one you're presently with, I'd say you've crossed the first hurdle...finding a woman who feels the same way you do about it. Make this fun for her, and she'll make it fun for you.
  14. Not really. I read your post, and thought I saw the light on my bullshit detector flicker a bit, that's all. You cleared it all up for me. No comment... Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you were "walking your dog and stopping to say hi to friends." Most people I know who walk their dogs do so in their own neighborhood, near their homes, in part because that IS where their friends are. You're obviously one of those people who drives your dog to somebody else's neighborhood to walk him. No problem with that! My apologies. I'm with ya there...I think that's what most people would do...shower before meeting somebody, especially for the first time. There's nothing wrong with dropping by a friend's house when you're in their neighborhood, then cleaning up a bit should you decide to become intimate. But as I read the OP, the guy ("Tim")was already in his own house...15 steps from his own shower...when he flew out the door, funk and all, to go meet this couple. Maybe he had a good reason for not showering beforehand. Maybe the busses in his town don't run after 10:30. Maybe he comes from a culture (French, or Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps?) where the smell of sweaty pits and raunchy ass is a turn on. Maybe his wife or girlfriend already used all the hot water taking her own shower, so she would be "fresh" when he came to bed. I'm sure he had a good reason, it just sounded a little strange, that's all. You're right, I do. This evening will be a good opportunity to do just that. I've been invited to a private cocktail party which will be attended by mostly single professionals from this area. I've been working in the garage most of the afternoon. The question now is...should I take a shower before I go, or just wait and ask the hostess if I can take one there? Hmmm...if I take it there, later, I can be at her front door 10 minutes earlier than if I take it here, NOW...
  15. I'm certainly gaining a new perspective on dating etiquette from all this...especially as it pertains to single males. I must admit that even as part of a couple, the prospect of our actively seeking a single male was never really on our agenda. However if it had been, and the selected gentleman showed up at our door "sweaty and with dirty hands" from petting some damn dog, or with crotch-rot that was even slightly noticeable, his ass would have been back out the door before he had a chance to say... "Wazzup, Dawg? I'm here to fuck your wife!" Really...how long does it take to take a shower? Five minutes, TOPS? OK, maybe ten minutes if you throw in a shave, but 3 minutes of that would be trimmin' the short-n-curlies from your package. Maybe I'm being unrealistic, but I'd like to think that a gentleman being offered the opportunity to have sex with my wife would feel it was worth ten freakin' minutes of his time to take a shower, before he showed up at our door. Any couple that is seeking a single male has their choice of literally hundreds from which to choose. One of the criteria that virtually every one uses is that the chosen male be "respectful" of both the male and the female, and of the role he's about to play in their fantasy. Showing up sweaty, smelling like dogs, dirt, or ass-cheese shows a gross disrespect both for the couple and for the lifestyle. Showing up in that fashion when he presumably lives alone in a house with indoor plumbing, and nobody to question his use of same prior to leaving the house late on a Friday night, is unpardonable. It was still a great story though. Like I said, I'm learning a whole new side to swinging and dating from this board. I may try that "I'm not taking a shower for you until I know I'm getting laid" trick on one of my vanilla dates. I'll let you know how it goes...
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